London Congestion Charge

[Poppy9]

Advice - Help

Drove to London on Monday and stayed at Ramada Marylebone. Wondered if we would need to pay congestion charge so looked at their website which said the hotel was outside the congestion zone. Followed their directions from the M4 to the hotel. Followed them to the letter and this led us into the C zone. It was 18.10pm we couldn't avoid it there was no where to stop or turn off. When we arrived at the hotel 5 minutes later we asked the receptionist about it. She told us to go to the Post Office in the morning to pay it. In the morning the PO said we couldn't pay for previous day and to ring the Congestion charge number. They informed us that we only had until 10pm on the day to pay now we will have a penalty. £100 reduced to £50 if we pay within 14 days. They said there is no appeal process.

Just looked at their website and it seems there is an appeals process. My question is if we appeal and we are unsuccessful will the charge continue to rise. Should we pay the £50 under protest pending the appeal outcome.

Pretty peeved off about this as living 300 miles away from London we knew nothing about the charge and trusted the hotels direction.

I did raise with reception and they also didn't seem to know about these rules. Said the website couldn't tell you that you would go through the zone to reach their hotel which is outside the zone as it's illegal and that they would seen to be incouraging people to find an alternative route to avoid the charge.

Thanks

[MarkyMarkD]

That hotel comment is complete rubbish. The whole point of the congestion charge is to deter people from driving in central London, not to encourage people to do so, so that Ken can make a few bob!

I would write in very strong terms to Ramada as they have

(1) caused you to incur the charge due to their stupid directions and then lied about why the directions are stupid; and
(2) caused you to incur double the charge due to their staff member's incorrect advice.

I would certainly expect them to cough up. Bear in mind (and mention in your strop) that you deliberately chose a hotel outside the congestion charge zone and their website states that it is.

[Nile]

Hello Poppy9

Been there, done that, bought the t shirt!

We had a weekend in London and thought we'd avoided the congestion charge until we received a fine through the post >:(.

We appealed and were advised by friends on this site what to do. The process was slow and I worried about the fine increasing as we missed each date deadline. The appeal was denied (what a surprise ::)) and we were advised to pay the initial fine amount, even though the deadline had elapsed.

You live and learn.

[Poppy9]

Nile,

On what grounds did you appeal? !Looking through website news it seems that over 50% of appeals are upheld. I can't believe that when we rang to pay on tuesday they wouldn't take any money off us. !Why should I have to bear the price of them now producing an invoice (I know from working from a large local authority that to produce 1 invoice including processing of the payment costs £15 min.) We weren't trying to avoid the charge, we offered to pay. !Think I might write to Kenny and Tony too pointing out they are deliberately profiteering from honest citizens etc. etc. !

I will write to the Hotel head office - but I think the best I will get from them is a free night accommodation (no doubt dependent on me paying for another night!!). There is an added complication to complaining about the hotel too much as a relation of a friend got us the hotel at a reduced price. I also asked this relation if we were going into the zone and he said no. They obviously know a different route in. Really I think it just proves how ignorant Londoners are about the zone so there is no hope for us Walians!!

[Poppy9]

Can I check on line if I have been caught in the Zone. If not how long before a big bill drops through my door?

[pedigreeblu]

i got fined a few weeks back, again being from the north i was totally ignorant of the congestion system, i rang and wrote to appeal to no avail, all i did was do a u-turn in a side rd which happened to be in the congestion zone, it definatly sucks, and seems to be a great revenue spinner for the london council, i wonder how many innocent northern victims there are, perhaps we should plan some mass protest, i was gutted with my fine, id already provided london council with approx £30 for over nite parking, definatley leaves you with a bad taste in your mouth and a hatred for london council.

[Poppy9]

had mine today. I am copying my appeal letter to

Ken Livingstone
Tony Blair
and my local MP

I have strongly made the point that I offered to pay but they refused to accept it. Went on about enviroment (wasted paper) and victimisation.

[King_David]

The trick is never to go near London in a car.

I never have and never, ever, will.

[nearlyrich]

I got stitched up a few weeks ago, I wasn't aware that if you don't pay before 10pm it is £10 instead of £5. I paid on line 5 mins after the deadline due to connection problems, I had assumed that if you paid before midnight it was OK. I think Bouncebackability has the right idea, parking at the hotel I used was £30 for less than 24 hours.

[rwgibson99]

Any readers of this thread wondering exactly what the charge is, and where it applies, can view the London Congestion Charge website, at:

www.cclondon.com

It's also probably worth mentioning that the scheme made the news worldwide when it launched, and was the main story on the UK national news each night for a week. There are also road signs advising you of what the scheme is throughout Greater London.

It's a reasonable assumption that certain tabloids had their art departments creating pictures of lizards with Ken Livingstone's face stuck on, being wheel-clamped and towed away under the headline "Congestion Charge Fails". Only it didn't...

Following the success of the London scheme (measured by a reduction in traffic and a collection of revenue for public transport schemes), many cities are planning their own congestion charges.

Poppy, it would seem that MarkyMark's advice would be the best - pay it, and complain to the hotel for bad advice. The receptionist should have said "I don't know" rather than guess.

Not sure what your letters to the Mayor of London and the Prime Minister would achieve - precisely what grounds do you think you have for appeal to them?

If in doubt - find out, from a reliable source.

[Poppy9]

Signage useless unless you know your way around the City. We were following exact instructions and looking for road signs.

The main thrust of my appeal is that payment was offered within 16 hours and refused. Instead they wanted to generate 3 pieces of paper, an envelope and then post it which means road or rail transport of mail 200 miles. How enviromentally friendly is that? How much money would they save if they accepted telephone payments after the date? No doubt they spend a fortune on printing and postage sending penalty notices to cars which are not legally registered or registered abroad. They will never catch the motorists who have no intention of paying any road charges whatsoever. No tax, no insurance and no congestion charge. If I intended to avoid the charge I would not have rung to offer payment. In law for there to be a crime there has to be intention to commit an offence. Therefore I am not guilty of a crime so should not be penalised.

By copying the correspondence to TB & KL I am trying to let them know that Innocent People are fed up of being easy targets for revenue raising when they have commited no crime.

If this is how visitors to London are welcomed no wonder I was able to book a Hotel in the centre of London at a reduced rate at short notice without trouble. After this experience I will not be in a hurry to return. No doubt they will then have to raise the congestion charge penalty to compensate for the reduction in visitors.

If you all want a nice break come to South West Wales (known in work as the graveyard of ambition). Lovely beaches and scenery, good nightlife and you don't have to wear your bag over your shoulder and under your coat for fear of pickpockets. Also cheaper to eat out and go to the Cinema. Also our roads are free and not as congested as London. We do lack decent public transport though. Buses are rare in huge parts of the city. Trains from London often decide to terminate at Cardiff without notice and then they secretly put on another train to Swansea without announcing it - it would be funny if it wasn't so true.

[dag]

It was 18.10pm we couldn't avoid it there was no where to stop or turn off.You know - if you'd been stuck in a traffic jam that delayed you 20 minutes, you'd have escaped. Congestion charging only applies from 7am to 6.30pm Monday to Friday.

This is also why it pays to have an up-to-date London street atlas - but if you only go to London once, the new atlas might be more expensive than the congestion charge.

I don't rate your chances of getting compensation from the hotel - but even so, you'd be well advised to pay the charge sooner than later. Don't delay just because you think you might have a compensation claim which hasn't been paid yet - and put it down to experience.

[King_David]

With the greatest respect to Poppy9, this is Britain.

It's just going to cost you more money and time sending things to Tony Blair and Ken Livingstone. Neither of them will see them - some penpusher in an office might read it and send it somewhere else so it'll be ages, if ever, before you get any sort of response.

I've never been to London in a car because it's such a waste of time. With the state of public transport I wonder whether I'll ever go there again (I live in the West Midlands).

I'm more likely to go to Heathrow Airport and get a flight out of the country than go into London.

That's how much I love this place :-/

[Poppy9]

Cost me nothing to email Mr Blair and co a copy of my letter. I have emailed him before via the parlamentary website and I always get a lovely reply on beautiful headed notepaper which feels like it costs £10 a sheet! I may not get anywhere but at least I am not taking it lying down. If everyone did something instead of just moaning and coughing up silently things might change.

Without protest Women would still not have the vote. Protest brought about an end to the Poll tax. Even the WI got in on the act with Mr B (you know the slow handclap at the WI conference which Mr B spoke).

I have sent a cheque but marked the form that I am paying under protest and pending appeal outcome. I also pointed out that I object to them threatening me with Bailiffs and a £5000 penalty with the initial notice. A judge just wiped out a couples £380k debt on an initial £5k loan as he said it was xtortionate and that was only 76x greater than the original loan. A £5000 penalty on a £5 payment is 1000x.

[Poppy9]

Anyone know if there is a time limit on Appeals?

I appealed back in Oct 2004. Rang a couple of months ago to be told the appeal was in a queue and had not yet been dealt with. I have still heard nothing.

[Baz-Bee]

As long as it is in the system just wait. there is a huge backlog of dealing with motorist's appeals in London.


I have only just read this thread as it has come to the top again from last November. Whilst I do not agree with the congestion charge, I cannot agree with the comments regarding signing of it. You will pass advisory signs on every main route in to london advisng how far you are from the boundary. At the boundary there are huge signs advising you are about to enter the Charging Zone. If people cannot see these then they should not be driving. Also you will see the cameras monitoring every road that enters the zone, including cul-de-sacs only a 20 metres or so in length.

Your problem was the bum advice given my the hotel staff. In fact I am surprised that they did not have a leaflet avaialble explaining how the scheme operates. Pay up to 10pm on day at standard £8 (£5 when you were in London Rate) or between 10pm and midnight the charge increases to £10 (that stayed the same!). Afetr that you get hit by a Penalty Charge Notice (it is not a criminal offence but a civil one, so you have not committed a crime). After midnight a £100 Penalty Charge Notice is issued which is reduced to £50 if paid within 14 days. If it remains unpaid after 28 days is increases to £150!

Like any other statute, by-law or regulation it is our responsibilty to ensure we are aware of them. Ignorance is no excuse. I do feel a tad sorry for you though Poppy as you were clearly misled by the hotel staff. I feel you will be very lucky to win any appeal. BTW, did you contact the hotel and ask for any compo from them and an explanation as to why their staff are giving guests erroneous and costly information?

[Poppy9]

I know what you mean about signs and we knew we were going into central London but the website said they were located outside the zone and I even phoned to check. Therefore when I saw signs saying zone in x miles I assumed we were near the hotel or took a side road off. We followed their website map to the letter. If you don't know the area telling you x is in 1 mile is no use if you don't know which way you are going. As I have said previously - didn't mind paying, made decent effort to find out about the charge before travelling etc.

The hotel did apologise and offer us a discounted rate of £50 B&B for a family room at our convenience. They also said they would offer training to their staff and update their website to say although they are located outside the zone you may have to drive through it to reach the hotel.

Also when I had a copy of LT appeal evidence last year it was wrong. They stated that my vehicle had been in the zone and I had paid a charge for a few days prior. As both oh and me are public servants who have to clock in and out of work it was easy for me to demonstrate to the appeals people with offical confirmation from our employers that we were both in work at that time. Also under the DP and Freedom of Information act I asked for a details of the CC used to pay the earlier charge. Funny they won't reply to me on that score, again I passed this to the appeals people. Clear fabrication of evidence is a criminal offence and legal advice has told me to persue once the appeal hearing has taken place even if I win the appeal.