Cheap Vitamins etc? [Archive] - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums

Savvy_Sue

17-10-2004, 12:08 AM

Could someone seriously suggest what vitamins/minerals are good for you and has anyone benefitted from these as I personally feel there is a lot of unreliable information around from people trying to sell these supplements...Thanks
Well of course there is a lot of hype around from people trying to sell supplements, but some of them work very well for some people. It's a case of balancing what people tell you against what's in it for them. And thinking about your risk factors and / or current health problems. If you have a restricted diet for any reason, then you may be deficient, eg no dairy could mean not enough calcium if you don't make a conscious effort to make up for it.

Iron tablets if you're anaemic are a jolly good idea, but finding out why you're anaemic would be sensible, and if you're a chap you can rule out what I think are the most common causes, ie pregnancy and heavy periods!

I'm currently taking Vitamin C, Cod Liver Oil, Glucosamine, and Calcium. But I'm a creaky lady, and I reckon the Vit C won't hurt, the CLO and G ought to help the creaks, and the Calcium might ward off the brittle bone thing which means old ladies tend to break their hips if they fall over.

I was taking a high dose of Evening Primrose Oil because my GP recommended it for very painful breasts, and it certainly did the trick, I swore by it. But then a few weeks ago I realised I'd accidentally stopped taking it when one bottle ran out and I'd failed to open a new one. If the problem I was taking it for recurs, I've got a bottle waiting.

I've also taken St John's Wort for mild depression, and again I think it helped. But my depression is like an old 'friend': I've had it before, several times, and I didn't feel it was bad enough to go down the whole GP / antidepressants route. SJW certainly didn't 'work' as well as the prescriptions I've had in the past, which make me superwoman for a week and then settle me down to a slightly elevated mood until it's time to wean myself off them. But it did, I feel, keep me from slipping any deeper into the mire. Maybe I wouldn't have done anyway, maybe it was just the placebo effect, but I still think it was worth it!

Fionnuala

17-10-2004, 4:35 AM

Hello Solent Guy

I think that all vitamins and minerals are good for most people....however I would suggest that you have a one off consultation with a qualified Nutritionist - s/he would have a good old chat with you to figure out what, if anything, is deficient in your diet or in your body, then prescribe specifically for you. When I say "prescribe" they prescribe vits and minerals - definitely not pharmaceutical drugs. Be patient though, it might be six months before you notice a significant improvement. Case in point, a woman I work with had terrible joint pain for no known reason...it went on for ages, and her GP advised painkillers (with occasional breaks to find out if the pain was still there..!!) and Cod Liver Oil. After nearly a year the joint pain did disappear (virus suspected), however this woman noticed that at the age of 42 she has long, strong, healthy nails for the first time in her life - the result of the Cod Liver Oil - she had taken it before but never for long enough to get such a result. And just think what else it might be doing for her.

Hot tip on how to see a nutritionist for free: A friend of mine is currently finishing a 3 year diploma in Nutrition, and as part of her course she gets to do consultations with real patients. She has to do a certain number in order to fully qualify, however the consultation is completely supervised by her course leaders (who are of course competent in the subject). The patient pays nothing for this, and if the student gets it wrong then the misinformation is corrected so that the patient leaves with expert advice. You could be sneaky and phone a few nutritionists to find out where they trained then contact the colleges to offer yourself as a guinea pig to their final year patients.

Something else that you might like to have a look at is Gillian McKeith's book, You Are What You Eat. Yes, she tries to get you to do her entire diet, which mightn't be quite for you. However there is a very good section about how to tell what you're lacking from common physical indicators, eg white spots on nails = zinc deficiency, etc etc. She doesn't personally benefit from any purchases you make (other than her book and her own branded stuff which you don't have to buy) so I think it's trustworthy enough. I did a very similar diet to hers some time ago...apparently I looked so healthy I glowed and I was in a perpetually good mood...must go back to it really.

Finally, I have heard that the Recommended Daily Allowance indicated on vitamin packaging is often too little - eg the Vitamin C RDA is designed to prevent scurvy. You're unlikely to be so deficient you'll get scurvy, but if you need a boost you'll need lots more than the RDA. Also, consider the RDA apparently applies to everyone...an eight stone woman or a 20 stone man and everyone over age 18 in between. That doesn't especially make sense to me.

What a long answer to what you possibly thought was a straightforward question. Do persevere with it all the same, you're entitled to feel as healthy as you possibly can.
FTS

MimiJane

17-10-2004, 12:40 PM

What's very important here but hasn't yet been mentioned are the BRANDS of vitamins/minerals that are the best. !In my opinion, you largely get what you pay for here and I would steer clear from Superdrug/Holland & Barratt in the main if you want good quality. !Many of these tablets go straight through your system and do little good because of the way they're prepared ... some have to be "chelated" to do any good (broken down so they enter your system properly), or they basically do very little to benefit you.

Some excellent brand names are :-

Solgar
Bio Force
Bio Care
Higher Nature

which can be bought at any good health store or on line.

By the way, I've read that, although Holland & Barrett's quality is very questionable in the main, their multi-vitamin tablets are pretty good and "Seven Seas" cod liver oil tablets are also good, which can be purchased at most chemists.

Hope this helps.

:)

Savvy_Sue

17-10-2004, 1:43 PM

Finally, I have heard that the Recommended Daily Allowance indicated on vitamin packaging is often too little - eg the Vitamin C RDA is designed to prevent scurvy. You're unlikely to be so deficient you'll get scurvy, but if you need a boost you'll need lots more than the RDA. Also, consider the RDA apparently applies to everyone...an eight stone woman or a 20 stone man and everyone over age 18 in between. That doesn't especially make sense to me.
But remember that one reason why the dosage in a particular vitamin tablet may be less than the RDA is that we can get most things from what we eat, and taking more than the recommended dose in order to get up to or above the RDA isn't necessarily a good idea. Now I know this doesn't apply to Solent Guy, BUT to women reading this: be wary of taking more than the RDA of anything if you are pregnant or planning to become pregnant. The one I know to watch out for is Vitamin A which I think affects your liver.

One thing which used to be recommended if you were planning to become pregnant was Folic Acid: there were studies done to establish that it was helpful in preventing foetal abnormalities and miscarriages in some circumstances. A long time since I had a baby so check this advice with your GP or midwife!

s@sha

17-10-2004, 2:10 PM

One thing which used to be recommended if you were planning to become pregnant was Folic Acid: there were studies done to establish that it was helpful in preventing foetal abnormalities and miscarriages in some circumstances. A long time since I had a baby so check this advice with your GP or midwife!

This is correct. I'm just about to start fertility treatment & have been advised to start taking Folic Acid again.

Also worth remembering that taking extra Vitamin A in a supplement is not recommended during pregnancy (unless specifically told to do so by a medical expert)

If you're pregnant, or planning to be & still wish to take a multivitamin supplement then it's better to take one specially formulated for pregnancy like Sanatogen ProNatal..this doesn't contain any vitamin A, but does have the necessary levels of Folic Acid.

auntieboo

17-10-2004, 8:59 PM

With any supplements you are planning to take, it is always worthwhile checking one of the medical websites to see any side effects or, if you have any health problems, to check whether you can actually take them. (i.e. diabetics are not advised to take certain supplements, folk with iccky livers or kidneys are warned off certain supplements).

Bio Force IS great...particularly the Echinacea drops when a cold starts. You are advised not to take them all the time, however, as this reduces the impact.

Reaper

18-10-2004, 4:07 PM

I much more of a sceptic.

Tablets are a poor way of taking in vitamins. Your body can not cope well with a concentared tablet of vitamins and does not absorb most of it.

There have been attempts to make expensive tablets which are meant to only slowly release the vitamins to give your body a better chance of absorbing it, but why not give your body the vitamins in the form it can best absorb it at the lowest cost. If you are short of vitamin C eat an orange a day. Vitamin A eat a carrot a day. For Iron eat... I can't resist... chocolate and Guiness! OK maybe that last bit of advice you should take with a pinch of salt but you get the idea.

Supplements are a huge industry which do their best to ram pills down our throats (so to speak!) but hardly anybody needs them. If something is missing in your diet then change it.

I should perhaps say that for short term use there may be times when some are suitable, such as illness or pregnancy, but not every day of your life.

Cullumpster

18-10-2004, 5:08 PM

I wasn't a big 'believer' in vitamins, but i was advised by a friend to take Kelp tablets and maybe even evening primrose as my hair refuses to grow further than my shoulders!

After a month of taking both together every morning (thought it was better than taking one and it not working) my hair is getting there, it's not really long, but it's a hell of lot longer than it was.

So now i'm a vitamin convert, i take every other day the fizzy tablet things for vitamin C it says to take 1 but i reckon that i need more it so i take 2.

Ps. if you stock up on your heinz baked beans and have beans on toast every night you'll be PACKED with Folic Acid they have loads in them ;)

Nile

19-10-2004, 1:21 PM

One for the girls

Evening Primrose Oil has been mentioned already but breast care hospitals recommend Starflower Oil 320mg GLA per day. You can pay a fortune buying them from Superdrug or Boots.........they are cheaper at Holland & Barrett Health Food Shops.

One for the boys

Selenium[/b] is helpful to prevent prostate cancer. Brazil nuts are a good source of selenium, so no need to buy expensive supplements.

Minerals in Food

Someone mentioned zinc, it's vital for growth and keeping your immune and nervous system in top form. Good sources of zinc are oysters, prawns, beef, lamb, eggs, brazil nuts, chicken, wholemeal bread, oats and ginger.

Did you know that Iron absorption is increased if you drink orange juice with your meal? Good sources of iron are offal, egg yolks, red meat, fish, breakfast cereals, parsley, green vegetables, wholemeal bread and dried apricots.

mutley74

19-10-2004, 2:45 PM

Gillian McKeith's book, You Are What You Eat.

I am reading the above book at lunchtimes, amd its making me think twice now. I think it will make me think before i buy any processed food at home. I now try and eat less junk food and snacks, and keep these to a minimum. Book has helped as it gives some ideas on alternatives, but also the benefits of nuts, herbal teas etc.

Did read the Anthont Robbins Not for a Friends book (free a few months ago via this website)...

The 2 books combined should (SHOULD) make me eat better, but also mentally better and more positive. I believe in you are what you think, as well as you are what you eat.

Reaper

19-10-2004, 6:58 PM

Time for the sceptic to make another apearance!

I think you ought to be aware Gillian McKeith has come under attack for a lack of scientific backing to what she states as facts.

For example here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/badscience/story/0,12980,1285600,00.html) is the Guardian "Bad Science" column having a go.

She is by no means alone. The field is awash with people spouting "pseudo science", and that includes pretty much every newspaper column on nutrition.

EDIT:
P.S. If you want to read the earlier Guardian attacks on her see here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/badscience/story/0,12980,1280808,00.html) and here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/badscience/story/0,12980,1315472,00.html).

snakey

22-10-2004, 5:39 PM

Ted_Hutchinson

22-10-2004, 5:43 PM

Savvy_Sue

24-10-2004, 9:08 PM

For Iron eat... I can't resist... chocolate and Guiness! OK maybe that last bit of advice you should take with a pinch of salt but you get the idea.
Naw, a Terry's Chocolate Orange is a better bet: gives you the iron and the vitamin C you need to absorb the iron at the same time. And tastes better than guiness too, IMO.

I mentioned Evening Primrose Oil in an earlier post, and said I'd stopped taking it and hadn't noticed a difference. Ouch, spoke too soon! Back on it quick.

I think that just shows how hard it is to tell if something is doing you good or not: there is often a time lag between when you start and stop taking a supplement, and when you notice its effects.

veronarona

01-11-2004, 1:38 AM

!I knew i was short of vitamin c as fruit gives me indigestion
You may well find that fruit digests very easily if eaten on an empty stomach. Fruit doesn't mix well with other food groups.

I was amazed when I started a Hay-type diet (separating carbs/proteins) and followed the advice to start the day on fruit alone - never a burp or a burn or a reflux!

veronarona :)

bylromarha

18-07-2005, 6:02 PM

Does anyone know where I can get some?

Boots seem to be the only place that stock fish oil for under 3's, and they're on 3 for 2 at the mo, and a voucher in the machine, but before I stock up on those, I want to check if anyone knows where I can get it cheaper.

All the named companies that make fish oil are only for over 3's, so Savers would be great if they stocked more than Haliborange, which is only for those who are 3 times the age of my boy!

Any ideas where I can look for it? Thx

Ted_Hutchinson

18-07-2005, 7:08 PM

From Essential fatty acids, DHA and human brain. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15812120&query_hl=6)
Most of the brain growth is completed by 5-6 years of age. At birth brain weight is 70% of an adult, 15% brain growth occurs during infancy and remaining brain growth is completed during preschool years. DHA is the predominant structural fatty acid in the central nervous system and retina and its availability is crucial for brain development. It is recommended that the pregnant and nursing woman should take at least 2.6 g of omega-3 fatty acids and 100-300 mg of DHA daily to look after the needs of her fetus and suckling infant. The follow-up studies have shown that infants of mothers supplemented with EFAs and DHA had higher mental processing scores, psychomotor development, eye-hand coordination and stereo acuity at 4 years of age. Intake of EFAs and DHA during preschool years may also have a beneficial role in the prevention of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and enhancing learning capability and academic performance.
Boots SMART FISH OIL (http://www.boots.com/shop/product_details.jsp?productid=1057808&classificationid=1034903&slmRefer=000) says it's for over 6 months but I cannot find the analysis which details the total omega and the amount of DHA. You will see from the above quote that it is particularly DHA than your child needs while the brain is developing. However supplements aren't the only way you can ensure sufficient omega is available.
How can I get more omega 3 fatty acids in my daily meal? (http://genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=75)
The Haliborange capsules which say they are for over 3's contain.
Average Values Per 2 capsules %RDA* Fish oil 400mg*
Providing
Omega-3 Nutrients 60mg
of which DHA 200mg

of which EPA 28mg
Vitamin A 800µg 100

Vitamin D 5µg 100

Vitamin E 3mg 30
Vitamin C 60mg 100
These capsules are useless for over 5's (they contain insufficient EPA to be worth taking) however they would be suitable for younger children so I don't understand the age restiction. Perhaps it's to do with the extra vitamins provided.
Probably the best value is ZIPVIT (http://www.zipvit.com) who sell product no A216J omega Juice. They don't specify an age limit on this and I can think of no logical reason why it shouldn't be given to younger children.
A 5ml teaspoon provides 600mg DHA and 900 EPA
So a half teaspoon would be sufficient providing 300 DHA and 450 EPA. This is £4.95 for 360 ml which would last a couple of months at 1/2 teaspoon daily.
There isn't a problem with overdosing with omega and providing there are sufficient base components the body metabolises one form of omega to another. So EPA can be changed to DHA and vis/versa but the omega oils can only be obtained from fish oils or the vegetarian sources listed at the Worlds healthiest foods link provided above.

bylromarha

21-07-2005, 11:28 AM

Hi Ted

thanks for all the above. Have contacted ZIPVIT and they say none of their products are suitable for under 3's. It could be H+S gone mad, but I don't know what other ingredients they put in the products, so not going to risk it.

Boots fish oil analysis is as follows.

per 2.5ml

Tuna oil 1150mg
EPA 68.7mg
DHA 275mg

£5.99 for 200ml bottles.

Is this enough EPA do you think?:confused:

There must be some company out there that will sell to under 3's...especially when reading your post it shows that these supplements have the best effects when taken at an early age.

Thanks again for your help:A

Ted_Hutchinson

21-07-2005, 12:51 PM

For an under 5 it's more important to increase the proportion of DHA so the Boots will be fine, particularly if you are ensuring sufficient sources in the diet which will enable whichever omega 3 it needed to be metabolised.

I will have a look for other suppliers for fish oil for under 3's but I suspect you are right that it's an overcautious H&S recommendation to protect from any potential lawsuits.

These are made by Equazen who make EyeQ which was used in the Durham trial.
MUMOMEGA Infancy Capsules SIZE: 30 PRICE: £ 9.99

Per daily intake (1 x 250mg capsule)

Docosahexaenoic Acid ( DHA ) 100mg
Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA) 14mg
Arachidonic Acid (AA) 2.8mg
Docosapentaenoic Acid (DPA) 2.8mg
Gamma Linolenic Acid (GLA) 5mg
Vitamin E 1.4mg (14% RDA*)

A lot more expensive than the Boots version and not so good IMHO.
Einstein DHA x 90 - Higher Nature (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=X&oi=froogle&start=0&num=1&q=http://www.edirectory.co.uk/pf/pages/moreinfoa.asp%3Frecordid%3D2661246%26cid%3D880%26a fid%3D88888&fr=AHtagM1YVBTaQaj3TOhW6iCzR_3dZHsZ4vgsQIHIWwfQ1xZ Q9hIdq28AAAAAAAAAAA) £17.86
Three capsules typically provide:Omega 3 fatty acid oil from Tuna, DHA 255mg, EPA 60mg. Total Omega 3 fatty acids 315mg. Vitamin E 0.63iU.

As these suggest one or two capsules a day for under3's and each capsule has less active ingredient Boots still have my vote.
As mentioned in http://www.healthyandessential.com/shop/images/sundaytimes-s.gif on 26/06/05
MorDHA-Mini (From 6 months up to the age of 5) -£13.99 60
has been developed to support growth, and brain development in children through the crucial first years of life and comes in a tasty strawberry flavour.
Most mums know whats best for their children but the growing amount of scientific research proves how important DHA is to a childs healthy development. From 6 months up to five years old, MorDHA-Mini is probably the most important supplement you can give them.
more information (http://www.healthyandessential.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=29&products_id=45) 20p capsule compared with Boots 7.5p

bylromarha

21-07-2005, 1:57 PM

You're a star! Have one on me. :beer:

Gingham Ribbon

22-07-2005, 11:11 PM

I've been looking into this too. The boots one for toddlers is a 200ml bottle. The recommended dose is half a spoonful. The jar should be discarded after I think 6 weeks. Meaning you have to throw half the jar away each time if you only have one child taking it. Bigger jars would be even worse I suppose unless you could find one that was longer lasting but then it might be full of harmful additives?

I phoned Boots about this and although the girl was helpful, she couldn't recommend a solution. Perhaps they should sell it in smaller, cheaper bottles.

Sorry, I don't know about the capsules as my son is too young for them. I guess they would keep longer?

Ted_Hutchinson

23-07-2005, 9:45 AM

I've been looking into this too. The boots one for toddlers is a 200ml bottle. The recommended dose is half a spoonful. The jar should be discarded after I think 6 weeks. Meaning you have to throw half the jar away each time if you only have one child taking it. In thread Omega Fish Oils (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=27919) I've been listing the most recent research detailing the benefits of Omega3's as a preventative and therapy for various conditions. If towards the end of the bottle you give yourself a daily teaspoon of this you won't have to waste it and you will benefit yourself. I accept that EPA 68.7mg DHA 275mg with a higher DHA than EPA is ideal for the developing brain and ensures the building blocks for the structural material of the infants brain are readily available but that doesn't mean this isn't also beneficial for the adult brain/body/blood etc. If towards week 5 in your toddler's fish oil use you help finish it off rather than taking your own adult fish oil capsule it won't make a big difference. However both you and your toddler should be regarding supplements as supplements and not alternative to eating omega in your diet
How can I get more omega 3 fatty acids in my daily meals?: question (http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=75#question)
Ideally you as an adult should be aiming for up to 4 gm of omega oils a day so helping your infant finish off the bottle before it possibly goes off, will do you no harm at all and may well encourage you to pay more attention to your own omega intake.
(PS, If you keep the bottle in the fridge and replace it immediately you've got your 1/2teaspoonful you should find it lasts longer than stated on the label, I use Omega Juice (http://www.zipvit.com) and have never had a problem with it tasting rancid after six weeks)

Gingham Ribbon

23-07-2005, 10:19 AM

I agree that is sound advice but I'm vegetarian and will be getting some flax seed oil for myself. Perhaps my husband will be interested in taking it though. My son is also vegetarian but as he has no choice yet I feel that it would be easier to give him the flavoured fish oil than expect him to take larger amounts of, let's face it, fairly unappetising bland oil! When he's older and he knows where meat comes from, he can either choose to eat meat or fish occasionally with daddy or take the flax oil with mummy. :-)

As I've only recently stopped breast feeding this has only now become an issue because he was getting enough omega 3 from his milk and other things he eats.

Ted_Hutchinson

23-07-2005, 3:08 PM

I think this is a sensible compromise. But I do think that you might be better adding ground linseed to your diet in preference to the oil. Not only would you be adding beneficial fibre but also beneficial Lignans. It only takes a few seconds to whizz some natural brown linseed through a grinder/blender and pop it in a container to keep in the fridge for a week. (A 5kg bag of linseed from SUMA costs about £5.35 and keeps for some months whole but does deteriorate when ground so I only grind a weeks worth at a time). Adding a tablespoon of this to your cereal/yoghurt/casserole is a really good way of adding extra omega although I'm sure you are aware the active ingredient of linseed ALA has to be metabolised into EPA/DHA so this isn't such a direct or efficient process as using fish oil.
One-quarter cup (4 tablespoons) of flaxseeds contains about 7 grams of omega 3 fatty acids so a couple of tablespoons should get you nearly to your target.

Gingham Ribbon

23-07-2005, 6:09 PM

I've never heard of Lignans! It's not often one slips past me like that! I've been veggie since I was 16 and was very underweight as I was eating the wrong things. So I read up and sorted my diet out and gained the weight I needed. And unfortunately quite a bit more than I needed!

The extra fibre in the linseed isn't something I need as I eat whole grains and lots of fruit and veg but maybe this other thing would be useful. I'll check it out. I tried ground linseed when I was pregnant and it made me sick, but then everything did so it's worth giving it another go!

I also noticed that the vegetarian society recommends cutting back on food high in omega 6 as it can hinder the absorption of omega 3 from plant sources. I think that's what it said... Anyway, I'm sticking to my sunflower oil marg because I love it but I may fry more in olive oil instead.

Thanks for being so helpful.

Ted_Hutchinson

23-07-2005, 6:53 PM

Pubmed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16033105&query_hl=1).....It has already been shown that soya beans, with their ingredients genistein and daidzein from the isoflavonoid group, have protective effects on hormone-caused diseases. Lignans are another, less investigated, group of phytoestrogens............
Flax-seed seems to have similar inhibitory effects to soya on hormone production and proliferation of hormone-sensitive tumour cells......
The lignans are not present in the oil, they usually get filtered out, (I think some of the more expensive brands retain lignans,) but they would be there if you ate ground linseed. Obviously you wouldn't notice any extra benefit from insoluble fibre from the Linseed having already a high fibre diet but on the other hand you wouldn't notice any detrimental effect either and the extra phytoestrogens might be handy. It's quite tasty/nutty with yoghurt, or you can make a roast seed nut mix by putting them together with sesame, almonds/ walnuts or whatever, in a frying pan and slow dry roast them on the hob then quick whizz in the processor. Sprinkle on crumbles or cakes/ biscuits cereals etc or add to yog or ice cream.
It's generally better nutritionally if you consume the least processed foods, and oil is more highly processed than natural linseed. I expect the flaxseed works out cheaper too if you buy it in bulk like I do.

Gingham Ribbon

23-07-2005, 7:02 PM

Actually that is extremely interesting, thanks. I will look into this further. I eat quite a lot of tofu and did not know about the effects on hormones. The reason I am so interested is I have recently discovered that my asthma is linked strongly to my hormones and I can actually breathe better mid cycle. I'm a regular at the asthma clinic while they're trying to sort me out. It's pretty bad sometimes and if there's a possibility that this might help I'll jump with joy. :j

Also, because I've had three miscarriages and was very ill during my successful pregnancy, the doctors suggested I had some kind of immune response to being pregnant. Persevering with a suppliment which may have a benificial effect on my hormones may not stop me miscarrying again, or having a bad pregnancy but at least it might make me feel more optimistic which in itself is a bonus! Cheers! :beer:

Just read the link. Realised it's probably not directly linked to anything I'm experiencing, but it still seems very worthwhile. It's easy enough to do and not prohibitively expensive as my diet is good enough that I don't see the need for other suppliments and cheap enough because I don't eat meat or processed food. (Aargh except a bit too much chocolate and crisps...)

Ted_Hutchinson

23-07-2005, 8:16 PM

I am so interested is I have recently discovered that my asthma is linked strongly to my hormones and I can actually breathe better mid cycle.Dietary phytoestrogens have anti-inflammatory activity in a guinea pig model of asthma. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10721007&query_hl=3)Interesting not something I've heard of before but worth a try.

Edit: I've seen your comment below. The above link does provide a further link to the actual research paper which gives more information. Not sure I understand it all but in the modest levels of phytoestrogens you are likely to get from a couple of tablespoons of Linseed it's unlikely that any adverse effects would appear. It's also the case that there is a big difference between refining the food source so that the active ingredients are presented in a concentrated form as soy extract containing the isoflavones genistin and daidzin is the same as eating soy (or linseed) in their usual manner.

Gingham Ribbon

23-07-2005, 10:20 PM

'However, this beneficial anti-inflammatory effect of dietary phytoestrogens is accompanied by a potentially detrimental increase in antigen-induced leakage of protein into the airspace.'

Not sure what that would involve because it's all very technical but I'm guessing it's the inevitable side effect! Poor little guineapigs. _pale_

CarolineT

03-10-2005, 1:32 PM

We have been looking for a site that was recommended last year on the forum for vitamins and minerals at really good prices. Have lost the link to it can anybody recommend one please?

Nile

03-10-2005, 1:48 PM

Hello Caroline T

There may be other suggestions from other members but one health web site you can have a look at is www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus)

They have an A to Z of health topics, you'll find information about vitamins under V.;)

Ted_Hutchinson

03-10-2005, 2:16 PM

There are several online suppliers that folk have found useful.
I prefer ZIPVIT (http://www.zipvit.com) as although their site is less slick than others and their catalogue is only basic their prices are always very keen. I have had no problems with their service and once when I needed my order (phoned at 3pm) by return of post it arrived next day.

I haven't used Simply Supplements (http://www.google.com/url?sa=l&q=http://www.simplysupplements.co.uk&ai=BPvOVOi1BQ42nI5q4wgHn-fm9Bp2L-QfD2ISaAdnL5roC4NQDCAAQARgBQIoWSIw5UMjnl9sFqgEcb3J nLm1vemlsbGE6ZW4tVVM6dW5vZmZpY2lhbMgBAQ) but others have reported their prices and service are fine.

Healthspan (http://www.healthspan.co.uk) have a well satisfied customer base but I am not convinced their products are worth the extra cost. You may find code CAR-LAU knocks £3 off orders over £18 online but this will probably still be more expensive than zipvit but will depend on what you are buying.

Healthy Direct (http://www.google.com/url?sa=l&q=http://www.healthydirect.co.uk/ht.asp%3Fa%3Dhealthydirect%26b%3Dbrand_google%26c% 3Dhealthydirect&ai=BihdRgC5BQ67MEMniwgGO67W7BsLPpgvAlbLNAeSflOUCkE 4IABABGAFAihZInzlQ9_G2xAKYAcBOqgEcb3JnLm1vemlsbGE6 ZW4tVVM6dW5vZmZpY2lhbMgBAQ)
Goldshield Online - UK (http://www.google.com/url?sa=l&q=http://tracker.tradedoubler.com/click%3Fp%3D18798%26a%3D763726%26g%3D436%26epi%3D1 gs_2gB&ai=B453Jli5BQ-rtO5CewQHFiPXrBa-M-Aq5782gAdup-3mA8QQIABACGAIoAkCKFkiKOVDAleSUBZgBz40GqgEcb3JnLm1 vemlsbGE6ZW4tVVM6dW5vZmZpY2lhbMgBAQ) sometimes have special offers which interest.

AfternoonTea

24-02-2006, 4:03 PM

Can anybody enlighten me on the different multivits availabe (ie A-Z , Gold Standard etc)

I usually take the 1 a day type from either Boots or supermarkets own , but for the last 5 months have had several bad colds & a chest infection and feel that I'm not benefiting so would like to try & find a good supplement

I try to eat a balanced diet most of the time :rolleyes: , I eat plenty of fresh fruit ,
also I am breastfeeding my 18mth old baby so not sure that I can have all of the available supplements

Any help/advice most appreciated

Nile

24-02-2006, 6:53 PM

Hello AfternoonTea

We're not supposed to ask for or give advice on this board.

If you are concerned, see your gp for the best medical advice. He/she may tell you that you are wasting your money buying vitamin supplements if you're getting a balanced diet.;)

Ted_Hutchinson

25-02-2006, 1:53 PM

Although Nile is almost certainly right to predict the GP will advise that the use of vitamins and supplements is probably a waste of money, this is more a reflection of the GP’s lack of training and failure of medical advice to keep fully informed as to the current state of published research as there is now plenty of published research to support the use of Vitamin D3, Omega 3 Selenium and vitamin c for starters. It's sad but true to say that many GP's are kept informed by the parasitic disease-mongering Pharmaceutical industry which employs as many salesmen and the NHS does doctors to misinform and mislead the gullible GP's who tend not to think or speak for themselves.

Nile clearly hasn’t been reading my posts regarding Vitamin D3 and hasn’t compared my up to date scientifically based “information” with the dangerously ill-informed “medical advice” issuing from government health sources.

As I haven’t broadband access to the Internet at the moment (because of E7broadband’s incompetence) it is difficult for me to provide as full a justification of my view that UK MEDICAL advice is not currently based on an up to date understanding of the latest research so I suggest anyone who wishes to argue the point first reads Sunlight Robbery by Oliver Gillie. It’s freely available if you google.

This was published in 2004 and ALL the research published since then more than supports the information provided in that booklet.

The point is that if the “Medical Profession” can be shown to be so completely and dangerously out of touch with reality and the latest research with regards to vitamin d3 cholecalciferol why should anyone believe they are better informed with regards to other vitamins and supplements?

If the original poster searches the site for “immune support” she may be able to find previous posts of mine providing up to date scientifically proven and published information about vitamins and supplements known to improve the immune system and control the autoimmune response. Vitamin A, B6, C, E, Selenium, Zinc, Copper.

shokadelika

27-02-2006, 7:08 PM

Ted_Hutchinson

27-02-2006, 9:57 PM

If Vitamins are a waste of money why are they given as drops to newly pregnant mothers and Folic acid recommended as a supplement.You may also like to know that broccoli has 50% less folic acid than it did 15 years ago and red meat 50% less b12 Will try and find the article to post here.A balanced diet is impossible if the nutriets are non existent in the food to begin with.Although the Mental Health Foundation report Feeding Minds (http://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/page.cfm?pagecode=PRFM) and the Sustain Download Sustain's report (http://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/html/content/changing_minds.pdf) here omits to mention Vitamin d3 (I suppose is because the dietary sources of d3 are so limited) These reports do detail the changes to the Quality of food the population now eat over the last few years.
You may find this Feeding Minds Web guide (http://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/feedingminds) handy.

Aitch.Kay

16-04-2006, 11:16 PM

Coatze

16-04-2006, 11:28 PM

I went a bit mental over at ZipVit.co.uk and spent over £150 quid on pills .... :(

Just wanted to ask if it was a good idea to take 11 differant supplements all at once, after my evening meal before bed ..... ???

I dont think its a good idea at all. have you noticed any side effects, what sort of pills are you taking???

Jays

17-04-2006, 12:20 AM

chugalug

17-04-2006, 5:57 PM

GP's sometimes do recommend supplements. I was advised to take evening primrose for breast probs and vit B supplements at the same time to see if these would help with PMT. I'm a convert as they helped enormously. I also take cod liver oil to try and prevent joint problems.

We can eat healthily but I do think its much more difficult now. You can eat oily fish but how do you know how much of the essential oils you need are in them. Its been proven that our factory farming methods and genetic modifications have altered a lot of what we eat.

Its a difficult one. I'm against taking supplements for the sake of it but I'm also aware that my long term health is my responsibility and I want to try and avoid some of the common problems.

Stompa

17-04-2006, 6:01 PM

I recall once hearing a hospital consultant say that the only thing that vitamin tablets do for you is produce expensive urine!

Stompa

haveagoade

17-04-2006, 6:05 PM

Zipvit (http://www.zipvit.com)
Zipvit are all mouth and no trousers.

I have been trying to get a refund from them for selling creatine to me at a higher price than I could get elsewhere, under their price pledge.

But they will not honour it or respond to my mails anymore.

They have duped me in 2 ways.

Selling items marked as 500g packs, when they were in fact 500mg tablets.

Apllying the correction to the above and then comparing to elsewhere they were STILL overpriced.

So.............look at bit harder and avoid zipvit.

haveagoade

17-04-2006, 6:08 PM

I recall once hearing a hospital consultant say that the only thing that vitamin tablets do for you is produce expensive urine!

Stompa

Not TRUE
..................as any BODY BUILDER will tell you.

Supplements and vitamins are nearly essential for correct body building.

Question is..........are you a bodybuilder?

If not then you maybe correct.

Ted_Hutchinson

17-04-2006, 6:33 PM

I recall once hearing a hospital consultant say that the only thing that vitamin tablets do for you is produce expensive urine!

StompaDirect-MS org (http://www.direct-ms.org/journalarticles.html) have been studying the science behind vitamins and supplements for some time and the selection of papers. The above link will give you, and your consultant some well researched facts to consider.
Their list of those vitamins and supplements most likely to help anyone with an auto-immune condition can be found ]Recommended supplements/vitamins (http://www.direct-ms.org/supplements.html)

I think browsing through vitamin catalogues such as Healthspan, Zipvit, Simply Supplements or Goldshield is a recipe for wasting a lot of money.

Before I spend my money I use the searchbox Entrez Pubmed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi) and enter the name of the active ingredient of the vitamin/supplement I am considering and my condition. If there is prior research showing it may be helpful then I'll read that research before partiing with my dosh.

Ted_Hutchinson

17-04-2006, 6:43 PM

Zipvit are all mouth and no trousers. I have to agree they aren't very good when it comes to their price match guarantee. The time I took them up with their price vis-a-vis Simply Supplements I was messed around for nearly two weeks until eventually they came up with a rather pathetic reason why the match didn't apply.

On the other hand when I tried a price match with Simply Supplements against another company the match was instant and the extra discount applied immediately. In fact I felt rather guilty because for the quantitly I then ordered there was an extra Simply Supplements discount which when applied would have meant they were in fact (for that quantity) cheaper than the firm I was getting them to beat so I ended up with an even better buy than I was anticipating.

I have found Zipvit phoneline helpful in answering queries I have put to them regarding ingredients etc so I think if you'd phoned before ordering you may have saved yourself some aggro. But I still think they are silly prevaricating over price match decisions. If they are going to say "NO" then they should do so straight away and provide a good reason.

haveagoade

17-04-2006, 7:15 PM

Vitamins and suppliments are great/essential if like me you are a sportsman/ bodybuilder.

(Creatine, protein powder and multivitamins, make the job a lot easier.)

If you are neither and in general good health, then a good diet is sufficient, and cheaper!

Stompa

17-04-2006, 9:19 PM

Not TRUE
..................as any BODY BUILDER will tell you.

My apologies, I should have qualified that quote as being applicable to an average healthy person - where a normal diet should provide all the vitamins required.

Stompa

Need_More_Money

17-04-2006, 10:09 PM

I think it is true to say that there is little (or no?) evidence that vitamin/mineral supplements do any good. This doesn't mean that they don't work, just that we don't know one way or the other. It isn't really in the interests of the companies to fund such research since people seem to spend huge sums of money on them anyway. It seems odd that they are not covered by the same legislation as medicines which have to have evidence to back up their claims of benefits.

There is no doubt that vitamins obtained naturally in food are essential, but it is whether your body can properly utilise those from pills that has not been shown so far as I am aware.

Lychee

17-04-2006, 10:48 PM

My multivitamins are coming up to their best before date, is it dangerous to take after the BB date?

Jays

17-04-2006, 11:12 PM

My multivitamins are coming up to their best before date, is it dangerous to take after the BB date?

Yes, hand them back to a pharmacist for disposal.

haveagoade

18-04-2006, 2:36 PM

Jays

18-04-2006, 6:52 PM

"are coming up to their best by"........was the statement, so there's nothing wrong with them!, so Jays you are wrong!

Best before's are not a magical time bomb, ticking away anyway, if there are in good condition and have been stored correctly, there is unlikely to be any danger in taking them at oo.o1 am the day after the BBE date.

Lychee's question was "is it dangerous to take after the BB date?"

Realistically, I don't thing Lychee was asking about the minute after midnight of the BB date, which I agree would not be a problem in itself.

However, being a registered nurse I would not give any out of date medication to any patient and if anyone asked this question I would recommend they return the out of date medication to their pharmacist for disposal. Which is what I did.

Need_More_Money

18-04-2006, 7:18 PM

Lychee's question was "is it dangerous to take after the BB date?"

Realistically, I don't thing Lychee was asking about the minute after midnight of the BB date, which I agree would not be a problem in itself.

However, being a registered nurse I would not give any out of date medication to any patient and if anyone asked this question I would recommend they return the out of date medication to their pharmacist for disposal. Which is what I did.

It is the correct advice but realistically it would probably be quite safe to take for quite a long time afterwards. There is likely to be a huge safety margin included in calculating the BB date. I'd guess that after the BB date the items just become inactive (if they weren't inactive already) rather than dangerous.
Of course the reason you wouldn't give patients out of date medication is because if the patient became ill (probably due to something else) you could never prove it wasnt due to the out of date medication and you'd be sued

haveagoade

18-04-2006, 7:27 PM

If medecine/tablets do not work, due to passing BBE date's then this can serious consequences.

If Vitamins don't work...............no big deal!

EdInvestor

18-04-2006, 7:42 PM

I think it is true to say that there is little (or no?) evidence that vitamin/mineral supplements do any good.

If you have a deficiency of a vitamin, and then take enough of it to remedy that deficiency, then you will almost certainly notice that they have an effect.

eg Smokers often are deficient in vitamin C. People who drink a lot are often deficient in the B vitamins.

If you don't have a deficiency and take the vitamins to keep yourself in that state, then you probably wouldn't notice a lot of difference if you stopped taking them for a while. This is because deficiencies take quite a while to develop and start producing symptoms.

Need_More_Money

18-04-2006, 7:47 PM

If you have a deficiency of a vitamin, and then take enough of it to remedy that deficiency, then you will almost certainly notice that they have an effect.

But has that been scientifically shown in a large group of subjects? I don't know the literature but I have been given the impression that there have been no large scale trials

Hewitt51

02-05-2006, 10:08 AM

can anyone please specify a decent web site, as in terms of experience, where to buy Vitamins from? I did a Google search and there are hundreds! Or is it just as well to buy from a Chemist/Supermarket?

Thanks

http://www.simplysupplements.co.uk

Used them not so long ago, very quick delivery and very competitive prices.

So.............look at bit harder and avoid zipvit.

haveagoade, I also had a bad experience with ZipVit and will never use them again.

Glad

02-05-2006, 10:32 AM

Hi, Martin’s asked me to post this: Sorry, giving or asking for medical advice is not permitted on this forum as it’s not what this site is about. While discussing medical insurance policies, cheaper ways to see consultants, cashback for alternative health treatments and how to get specific medication cheaper (legally) are all perfectly acceptable we ask you specifically not to discuss what to do in the event of certain medical problems (please see this rule (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=31048) on the Health Board). If you have any questions about this policy please email abuse@moneysavingexpert.com (abuse@moneysavingexpert.com).

:)

mae

02-05-2006, 2:12 PM

Is it possible to pay to have a blood test done to check your vitamin levels? I just thought that would take the guess work out of buying vitamins?

haveagoade

02-05-2006, 4:12 PM

As for Zipvit I have made a price guarantee claim against them becuase I found cheaper elsewhere and they will no longer correspond.

Ted_Hutchinson

02-05-2006, 4:23 PM

I wouldn't think it was worth paying for testing for vitamin deficiencies. The tests would cost more than the vitamins.

It may be worth it if you can persuade your GP that because you have a particular condition (ie.MS) you need a 25(OH)D test to find out exactly how much more vitamin d you need to raise you blood level to Optimal Vitamin D Status: 40–65 ng/mL (100–160 nmol/L) but generally speaking taking the RDA should be sufficient.

If anyone knows where a private person, ie not a health professional, can get a 25(OH)D test I'd like to know. More a matter of curiostity than worry as the overdose level doesn't start till you go above 10,000 iu/day and it's just too cold and cloudy for me to garden naked at the moment.

shokadelika

03-05-2006, 1:19 AM

And I thought I was the only sceptic here, brilliant post, brilliant links. The voice of reason.

If your (real and medically qualified) GP/doctor doesn't prescribe it, you don't need it in a pill, save your money!

Yeah like Thailidomide or what is the name of that one thats been causing heart attacks all over the place!!!!!!!!! oh yes wasn' it supposed to help Arthritis.Nice trade off!
Of of the Zillions of people taking supplements they have been no large scale deaths or scandals.
GPs spend on average a week studying nutrition!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is NO pro£it for drug companies in Vitamins and minerals making or helping to keep people healthy that is why they want them banned.As always Do Your Own Research!!

Jays

04-05-2006, 8:23 PM

Yeah like Thailidomide or what is the name of that one thats been causing heart attacks all over the place!!!!!!!!! oh yes wasn' it supposed to help Arthritis.Nice trade off!
Of of the Zillions of people taking supplements they have been no large scale deaths or scandals.
GPs spend on average a week studying nutrition!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is NO pro£it for drug companies in Vitamins and minerals making or helping to keep people healthy that is why they want them banned.As always Do Your Own Research!!

I do 'do my own research'.

As any nutritionist will tell you, healthy people only need a balanced healthy diet to get all the nutrients they need, including vitamins and minerals.

If anyone is unhealthy, they need medical advice.

Mediumhorse

26-08-2006, 2:41 PM

Hi I am looking to buy my Daily vitamins and minerals online to save money on the high street price

Can you name the best place to go to get them .

Mediumhorse

Thanks :O)

Nile

26-08-2006, 2:48 PM

Hello Mediumhorse

I'll move your thread to the 'Health' board, where it should get more views and responses. I hope you don't mind that I've amended your title too. A plain 'hello' title wouldn't let members know what you wanted.;)

Hi, Martin’s asked me to post this in these circumstances: I’ve asked Board Guides to move threads if they’ll receive a better response elsewhere(please see this rule (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=1009335#post1009335)) so this post/thread has been moved to another board, where it should get more replies. If you have any questions about this policy please email abuse@moneysavingexpert.com (abuse@moneysavingexpert.com).

Regards

Nile

woo

26-08-2006, 2:49 PM

I use http://www.medishop.co.uk/ found them cheap especially for glucosmine.

Ted_Hutchinson

26-08-2006, 11:26 PM

I think you may do better than that by using Simply Supplements (http://www.google.co.uk/pagead/iclk?sa=l&ai=BHEnJpMfwRO-WMpzCwQGFscSAAsWPiA_hufn8Ab2ApP0G8KIECAAQARgBKAJAi hZImjlQ--vlhP______AZgBmoUBoAGDtsD9A6oBGUdHR0wrR0dHTDoyMDA2 LTEzK0dHR0w6ZW7IAQGAAgGVAjsnMAqpAqpgDFh2qb8-yALN3Fw&adurl=http://www.simplysupplements.net)
or Going via Quidco to Healthy Direct (http://www.quidco.com/health-beauty/healthy-direct/) and getting 22% cash back.

A lot of folk swear by Healthspan (http://www.healthspan.co.uk/) but if you use them look around for the current discount voucher CAR-OS gets you £2 off £15 until 31-10-06 but there will be a new one to carry on from then.

I personally find ZipVit (http://www.zipvit.com/) is a cheap as anywhere but you do have to check each of the above to find whose most competative. Do make sure you are comparing like with like.

Also do be aware that the current official RDA for vitamin d3 and vitamin c do not have any basis in scientific research and the latest research shows both to be somewhat ridiculous. recent research (http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/researchRequirements.shtml) indicates you need about 4,000 units of vitamin D a day.
If you are interested in the science behind vitamin c then read
http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/expert.htm#HICKEY Ridiculous Daily Allowance.

icefall

26-08-2006, 11:30 PM

I use Zipvit, easy to use online, great prices too.

j4m35

22-09-2006, 10:36 AM

Hi
Due to my new found fitness and health regime,I'm looking for discount suppliers of the above.

In particulalr I'm after the UK's cheapest seller of UDO's CHOICE.

Any info gratefully recieved.:beer:

Cheers
J4m35

Nile

22-09-2006, 10:56 AM

Hello j4m35

I'll move your thread over to the 'Health' board, where it should get more views and responses.

Hi, Martin’s asked me to post this in these circumstances: I’ve asked Board Guides to move threads if they’ll receive a better response elsewhere(please see this rule (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=1009335#post1009335)) so this post/thread has been moved to another board, where it should get more replies. If you have any questions about this policy please email abuse@moneysavingexpert.com (abuse@moneysavingexpert.com).

Regards

Nile

welshwill

22-09-2006, 2:16 PM

Depending on what you need http://www.zipvit.com and Holland and Barrett.

I stock up on multivitamins & fish oil capsules when they're on BOGOF or special offer in H&B. If they're out check out zipvit for the fish oils.

What health product do you want specifically? There are online suppliers if you want whey or other specific supplements.

Ted_Hutchinson

22-09-2006, 7:22 PM

Froogle Uda's Choice (http://froogle.google.co.uk/froogle?sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGGL,GGGL:2006-13,GGGL:en&q=UDO%27s%20CHOICE.&sa=N&tab=wf)
I'm always very skeptical about the claims of expensive supplement providers particularly those who are discreet about the actual amount of active ingredient supplied.
So Zipvit sell Omega 3, 6 & 9 1000mg 2 per day Size M Flaxseed Oil
sunflower oil sesame seed oil evening primrose oil Omega 3 50% omega 6 18% omega 9 23%. 360 £16.95

whereas Udo's Choice gives you 8 pages of hype CLICK HERE to download the Udo's Choice™ Oil Blend PDF FILE: (http://www.udoerasmus.com/products/pdf_files/Udos_Choice_Oil_Blend.pdf) but no quantifiable information about the actual proportions of EFA's to justify the price which is roughly 4 times that of Zipvit.

The point about EFA's is the ratio of omega3 to omega 6. What we are trying to do by encouraging a higher imput of omega 3 is to readjust the ratio which has over recent years become dominated by omega 6's. See The omega-6 to omega-3 ratio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid#The_omega-6_to_omega-3_ratio)
for more detail. But I personally cannot see any value in deliberately taking more omega 6.

AICR: Omega-3 Fats Not All the Same (http://www.aicr.org/site/News2?abbr=pr_hf_&page=NewsArticle&id=10348)

Those who want to double their ALA intake may like to try using Linseed meal. By buying a bulk bag (5kg) of ordinary brown linseed (approx £5.75) and grinding a pot full up each week you can add this to cereals, stews, use as seasoning for veg, use in baking etc. It's really quite versatile as it can be used to substitue for eggs & fat. The reason for grinding is because the liseed has a hard shiny skin it will pass straight through without providing any nutrition at all if you eat it whole. In bulk it will keep at least a couple of years providing it's in a mouse proof container, once ground it starts to deteriorate which is why you need to do only a weeks worth at a time and keep it in a pot in the fridge.

Mums-to-be unaware of omega-3 need (http://www.bounty.com/News.aspx?Article=17657453)

Sam_26

25-09-2006, 12:34 AM

Try Numark own brand on www.chemist-4-u.com. Vet cheap, well packaged and not inadequate strengths like some companies. eg Watch out for Cod Liver Oil 60mg and Glucosamine 100mg tablets.

Ted_Hutchinson

25-09-2006, 9:07 AM

Try Numark own brand on www.chemist-4-u.com (http://www.chemist-4-u.com). Vet cheap, well packaged and not inadequate strengths like some companies. eg Watch out for Cod Liver Oil 60mg and Glucosamine 100mg tablets. Numark High Strength Cod Liver Oil 1000mg (http://www.chemist-4-u.com/eshop/product.php?productid=16339&cat=314&page=1) £1.99 x6= £11.94
Zipvit Cod Liver Oil 1 A Day 1000mg - 360 £9.95 74.5mg dha 62.5mg EPA
Simply supplements s143 360 £9.99 Cod Liver Oil 1020mg, DHA 110mg, EPA 90mg

(http://www.simplysupplements.net/liver-capsules-1000mg-p-115.html?osCsid=6eccff1b3cd9b75224eec5c78c1efdd9)W atch out for Cod Liver Oil 60mg and Glucosamine 100mg tablets

I agree though that everyone should watch out for the above and avoid like the plague supplements which are so low a strength they are virtually homeopathic. 1500mg/d glucosamine is the strength that has been proved effective for osteoarthritis, what good would 100mg be?
Even the best of the cod liver oil capsules above contains only 200mg omega 3 in a 1000mg capsule. What on earth is the point of a 60mg dose? It would contain a mere 12mg of omega 3. Although the official recommendation is for a minimum of 450mg omega3/d, an effective amount for depression/joint problems would be 1500mg. The 12mg these capsules provide isn't worth bothering with.

It may have been These Vega capsules (http://www.vegavitamins.co.uk/detail.php?cat=6&id=40&tab=2#product_info) that were being suggested in which case I've understated the omega 3 content which is 30mg per capsule and the Glucosamine Sulphate is 50mg at Chemist-4-U Price: £13.67 for 120 these are over 11p each and 2 a day (to achieve that pathetic totally ineffective 60mg omega 100mg glucosamine) would cost 22p/d.

Best buy for an effective amount of Cod liver oil must be Healthspan (http://www.healthspan.co.uk/shop/product.aspx?Id=CODL)Free Delivery £4.45 600ml
Each 5ml (one teaspoonful) serving contains: Pure Icelandic Cod Liver Oil of which total Omega 3 is 920mg, EPA is 345mg, DHA is 460mg. Vitamin A is 967mcg (120% RDA), Vitamin D is 10.35mcg (207% RDA) and Natural Source Vitamin E is 5.5mg (55% RDA).
There really is no comparision between 60mg and 920mg and the 920mg/d costs a mere 3p

MummyMiche

27-09-2006, 4:15 PM

My hubby buys all our vitamins from Healthy direct.
They do great offers and a wide range too.

Miche

Ted_Hutchinson

27-09-2006, 5:30 PM

My hubby buys all our vitamins from Healthy direct.
They do great offers and a wide range too.

MicheI do often suggest Healthy Direct (http://www.quidco.com/health-beauty/healthy-direct/) if you go via quidco (http://www.quidco.com/) you get 22% cashback.
Always worth checking their Sale section. But you can see that
Cod Liver Oil 1,000mg (http://www.healthydirect.co.uk/product/Sale/0203.htm) 360 Soft Gel Capsules Qty was £14.95 now £11.95
compared with those listed below only the sale price and cashback and free postage over £10 make them competitive.

It may help if you have a code. HD087 is the last code I have (June probably out of date) but there may be some others in the papers/magazines or internet.

CGG

18-10-2006, 2:05 PM

My Mother bought Tesco's Omega3 Pure Fish Oils yesterday. They were BOGOF, with an individual price of £3.99.
When they went through the till, it took off a Multi-Buy discount of £4.86, so better than BOGOF!

mrs baggins

06-12-2006, 8:36 AM

I was looking in Boots and high street shops the other day for various vitamins and the ones I wanted (st Johns wort) were just so expensive . I have been looking at a couple of online sites and for the same type of thing (strenghth etc) they seem to work out cheaper and I know that they SHOULD be the same thing but I just wonder if they are in fact. I dont suppose that vitamins and things are regulated so how do you know that you are getting whatyou think you have ordered? or am I just being a bit silly?

Ted_Hutchinson

06-12-2006, 9:54 AM

I think all vitamin & supplement sellers have to meet hygiene and their advertised specification standards so in my view 500mg of vitamin c is the same from Boots as it is from H&B or Zipvit or Simply Supplements.

Variations will occur where other ingredients are added and different formulations apply. So a time release vitamin c will be more effective than a non time release vitamin c because the body can only deal with a limited amount at time and wastes large doses.

However with Vitamin d3 it will absorb a large amount and it will use that so that in 3 weeks around half is still working. So there would be no point in a time release vitamin d3 formulation.

St John's Wort acts a bit like an SSRI anti-depressant so, like lightboxes, is treating the symptoms and not the cause of Winter Blues. Since I've been taking High Strength (5000iu/d) vitamin d3 my mood has been much better. I also take a high dose OMEGA 3 (Zipvit omega juice) to help mood stabilisation. As both Vit d and Omega 3 have pleiotropic (work on many different parts of the body at the same time) benefits you won't be wasting your money if you don't notice the effect straight away. Both may take 8-12 weeks to correct any insufficiency status.

When I was using St John's Wort I used the Zipvit ones can't say though how they compared with Boots or Tesco's because I didn't try theirs. As the high street stores sometimes have half price, buy 2 get one free, or similar promotions I'm sure they all source their supplies from similar manufacturers. Many people swear by Healthspan, They use the right kind of vitamin d3, They regularly have a discount code for £2 off £15 I'll look for one and edit it in unless someone beats me to it.

anniewoo

06-12-2006, 10:50 AM

I get most of my supplements from H&B,usually in store,but sometimes online.

They always seem to have half price offers on and a couple of days ago when I went in,there were also a lot of BOGOF offers.

Natures Best is also a good company that I use sometimes.

mrs baggins

06-12-2006, 1:11 PM

Thanks for the feedback. I will look into the various diffent ways to buy after christmas and give it a go. I think I was jusy thinking that if something is a lot cheaper than high street shops it could just be capsules filled with anything!! thats what comes about reading about fake NHS drigs on the market! Your mind goes off at a tangent-well mine does anyway

Ted_Hutchinson

21-12-2006, 3:30 PM

Tesco's 30's Omega 3 1000mg capsules are now on offer buy 2 get lowest price free so work out at 2.5p each so are cheaper than Simply Supplements, who are cheaper than Zipvit. So stock up now.
Quite surprised that Aldi aren't particularly cheap.
I don't use these myself but live with someone who can't stand Omega Juice.

miken

22-03-2007, 8:29 AM

Usually have Tesco Multivitamins and I have been happy with them for years.
Just noticed that they now contail Gelatine which for us Veggies is a no no.
Anyone suggest other makes that would be suitable.
Thanks

Ted_Hutchinson

23-03-2007, 9:33 AM

It really depends on how strictly veggie you are.
I use Boots Complete A-Z these don't contain gelatine but are labelled as Not suitable for vegetarians however that will be because Vitamin D3 Cholecalciferol is made from lanolin, with comes from the waste products from wool making. It isn't coming from the carcass of the sheep so no animals are killed to make it. So if your the kind of veggie that wears woolen jumpers there should be no ethical dilemma.
Zipvit A04b (http://www.zipvit.com/cgi-bin/vitcart.cgi?return&cartnumber=4785ci&currency=PoundsSterling#A04b)http://www.zipvit.com/zipvit/images/bulkbuy3.gif
Multi-Vitamins and Minerals - 360 (size M) http://www.zipvit.com/zipvit/images/veggie4.gif
7.75
are OK for veggies but this must mean they use Ergocalciferol and The case against ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) as a vitamin ... (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/84/4/694) explains why this is a poor second best option.
So if you are not prepared to use wool or wool derived products, sun exposure,(three weeks in tropical sunshine in January) sunbed/tanning studio will be your best option for ensuring you stay in the high Vitamin d status group that has 50% lower risk of breast, colon, prostate cancer (http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2007/03.22/01-vitaminD.html) and MS and using ergocalciferol the least best option.
Do remember the current RDA for Vit d is not science based. The amount your body really needs is here (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/77/1/204) and the results of misguided people using supplements and thinking they must have adequate Vitamin D status is here (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/3/860)

miken

23-03-2007, 9:43 AM

Thanks Ted, a good clear explanation.
Will try the Boots one as you suggest it.

Regards

Nikiya

03-05-2007, 12:08 PM

Thanks Ted! Never heard of those manufacturers but the vitamins seem to be dead cheap....I buy Solgar multis one a day and they come at nearly 8 pounds a month (never manage to get the pound sign in this site!!)...
The Solgar extra potency do have a lot more ingredients but no Vit A. I noticed the ZipVit formula contains: Vitamin A 800mcg. Now Vit A seems to increase or promote osteoporosis and I suspect that is why it is missing in the Solgar formula.
To tell you the truth I never quite know what to do with multis and they DO cost a fortune... I suffer from CFS and need to take them.

Factor25

18-06-2007, 5:06 PM

These are working out about £16 a month. MIL finds them very good but I cant find anything with exactly the same ingredients, they are the ones with Glucosamine plus Chondroitin & cod liver oil. Plus projoint formula vitamins, calcium, amino acids & minerals.

Ted_Hutchinson

18-06-2007, 10:31 PM

I think you probably could take separate Glucosamine/Chondroitin tablets one tsp of cod liver oil one tsp of Omega juice and a high strength Vitamin d capsule zipvit do a Vitamin K I'll work out pricings tomorrow to see if it works out cheaper.

Vitamin A 120µg 15 480µg 60
Vitamin D 0.75µg 15 3µg 60
Vitamin E 1.5mg 15 6mg 60
Vitamin C 9mg 15 36mg 60
Vitamin K 20µg * 80µg *
Calcium 100mg 12.5 400mg 50
Manganese 1mg * 4mg *
Copper 1mg * 4mg *
Cod Liver Oil and Fish Oil 475mg * 1900mg *
providing
Omega 3 nutrients 200mg * 800mg *
of which
EPA 95mg * 380mg *
DHA 69mg * 276mg *
Glucosamine Sulphate 250mg * 1000mg *
Chondroitin Sulphate 50mg * 200mg *
Cysteine 10mg * 40mg *
Lysine 10mg * 40mg *
Glutathione 10mg * 40mg *

Boots Cod liver oil is £4.99 for 500ml and should provide 1tsp should provide 920mg (of which DHA – 460mg and EPA – 345mg). Vitamin A – 3,234iu (120% RDA), Vitamin D – 416iu (207% RDA) and Natural Source Vitamin E – 5.5mg (55% RDA)
That would match the omega 3 content the Vit A D and E content of the 7Seas Projoint. and would last 3 months for the cost of £1.50 month approx.
Zipvit Glucosamine Sulphate 500mg with Chondroitin 400mg - 200 cost £22.95 and would cost £6.88 to provide the same glucosamine but more chrondroitin than above.
Zipvits Vitamin K is £4.45 360 100mcg =37p monthly for more than in 7 seas.

The amount of calcium that should be consumed daily is
19-30 years: 1000 mg
31-50 years: 1000 mg
51+ years: 1200 mg
Postmenopausal women not taking hormone replacement therapy: 1500 mg
Pregnant and lactating women (younger than 18 years): 1300 mg
Pregnant and lactating women (older than 18 years): 1000 mg

You don't say how old MIL is she may be able to get calcium/vitamin d mix on prescription Some people also get Glucosamine/chondroitin on prescription but this isn't universal.

It's sunny now so I'm off out for a bit. will finish this later.

Factor25

21-06-2007, 10:55 AM

MIL is 72, we got some Glucosimine/Omega 3/Chondroitin BOGOF in tesco and we can work out from your info what else to add to it. Personally for the benefit she gets out of it I think its worth the 50p a day.

Deals

25-07-2007, 12:38 PM

i have heard a few people talk about. i was also told that stuff sold at tescos does not work. any feedback?

Toots

25-07-2007, 1:30 PM

i have heard a few people talk about. i was also told that stuff sold at tescos does not work. any feedback?

Some vitamins and minerals are time-release so that you don't just pee out any excess in your system when you go to the loo. These are better for you as they stay in your system longer.

Chelated minerals are claimed to be better as they are absorbed by the body better.

Ted_Hutchinson

25-07-2007, 1:59 PM

In my view I don't think you can really tell from the price if a particular vitamin/supplement is worth it's money.

You have to understand a little about what you are buying before you can make a valid judgement.

For the most part Vitamins and minerals you need are BEST obtained from natural sources. Your body evolved to get Vitamin D from sunlight not from a supplement, calcium is best from food (http://www.thedailytimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070702/LIFE/70702004)as are most other vitamins and minerals, there have been plenty of research projects showing that synthetic vitamins are not as effective as natural food equivalent forms.
Similarly vitamin c from food is in a natural slow release form. There is plenty of research showing Vitamin C in synthetic non slow release form isn't effective but not so much using slow release forms which more exactly replicate the natural source that enables vitamin c status to be raised and kept high, over a longer period.

I think that omega 3 is omega 3 and it doesn't really matter, providing you get sufficient, if it comes from Tesco's, Holland and Barrett or Zipvit providing you get sufficient EPA and DHA to total around 4g per person per day. Where most people go wrong is they don't take sufficient to be effective.
With Vitamin D you find that the form the Doctors prescribe is the least effective, because they use the synthetic D2 Ergocalciferol, the form D3 Cholecaliferol is much more effective (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/84/4/694)and is identical to the stuff you skin makes given exposure to sunshine. So If your Vitamin D says D3 Cholecalciferol then providing it's an EFFECTIVE AMOUNT, the level your body would make itself if we had some sun and you were able to lay naked in that sun for 20 minutes, then it's worth buying, if it's D2 Ergocalciferol, the type your Dr may prescribe, then it's only contains 30% of the effective power that D3 Cholecalciferol packs. (http://www.uvadvantage.org/CONTENT/NEJournalofMedicine.pdf)

The same would go with Glucosamine Sulphate, the important thing is to take a sufficient amount, to be effective, 1500mg/d, I doubt it makes much difference how much or how little you pay. If you buy the cheapest and it doesn't appear to be working then maybe it would be worth buying from a different source but maybe it's because no amount of that particular supplement would help your condition. I think you've got to be careful not to be sucked in by the hype that surrounds many of these claims. I always use Pubmed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed) to check that the supplement I am considering buying has any research based information supporting it's use for the purpose I intend.
However most of the research shows that food sources are best. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17617909)

New Scientific Findings on Whole Foods versus Supplements: disctopics (http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=faq&dbid=33#disctopics)

That is of course excluding Vitamin D3 which is best obtained free from sunlight and if (as is the case this year in the UK) sunlight is not available then the nearest equivalent is Vitamin D3 Cholecalciferol so don't be tempted to waste your money on the D2 Ergocalciferol the most frequently prescribed form.

Ted_Hutchinson

25-07-2007, 2:11 PM

Some vitamins and minerals are time-release so that you don't just pee out any excess in your system when you go to the loo. These are better for you as they stay in your system longer.
But surely time release formulations are only relevant where time is a factor. If we consider glucosamine sulphate with a half life of glucosamine sulphate may be as much as 58 hours (http://www.australianprescriber.com/magazine/27/3/61/3/) in which case it doesn't make a significant difference if it is absorbed over one hour or 8 hrs, providing you are taking it daily then it will average out. It may in fact work out cheaper to buy 3 x 500mg Glucosamine and take one every 4hrs with food and thus safe the additional cost that time release formulations often entail, and still have a good take up and availability over the 24 hrs each day.
The only Time Release I buy is Vitamin C and that's because it's half life is measured in minutes.
As the half life of Vitamin D3 is around 10 days it's totally pointless buying time release. You can (providing you are not pregnant or breast feeding) take vitamin d once a week and have the same effect (breast feeding mums need to take an effective amount daily or vitamin d in breast milk is variable) (http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/174/9/1287)

melancholly

25-07-2007, 3:51 PM

when i was put on a restricted food diet i had to take lots of multivitamins to compensate - not sure how true it is, but i was told not to buy the cheapest make and that you get 'better quality' for your money. i went and bought jumbo packs at costco instead!!

i guess the biggest difference will be in what exact combinations each multivitamin has - or if you're buying separate vitamin packs, what the dosage is relative to the RDA.

imported_goldie

27-07-2007, 12:14 PM

There is a test you can do on omega 3 capsules. If you put one in the freezer for 24 hours it should stay the same colour. If it goes white and/or cloudy it says you are just eating fat and not true omega 3 oil. The tesco one i tried actually went white so i stopped buying them but the zipvit ones stayed the same - and they are cheaper too!

belfastgirl23

27-07-2007, 2:56 PM

Ted Hutchinson can I be nosy and ask what you do? You know so much about all this stuff :)

On the supplements I find cheaper omega 3s give me indigestion and fish burps (sorry to be indelicate) but I go with boots own brand for regular vit supplements.

footyfan

13-09-2007, 7:34 PM

mum2one

13-09-2007, 7:46 PM

Can anyone recommend a good website for vitamins online?

I'm thinking of Glucosamine, Chondroitin etc for joints. These seem to cost a small fortune in Boots and Superdrug, even with 3 for 2 deals. But, is the quality better than cheaper products from online stores and therefore worth paying extra?

I know the vitamin content (mg) can vary.

A quick Google search found heathydirect.com - anyone used them and can recommend or otherwise?

Any other suggestions appreciated.

Hi.

I personally use

Healthspan - there really good value, and they get shipped within a week, have used them for over 5 years and have had absolutely no problems with them at all.

The other company I would recommend (used them once they were good, ordering between both now)

Zipvit

Just put the word in google - again there really good.

Hope that helps
x

footyfan

13-09-2007, 7:52 PM

Thanks mum2one - I'll check them out.

Ted_Hutchinson

13-09-2007, 8:27 PM

Healthy Direct (http://www.quidco.com/health-beauty/healthy-direct/)http://www.quidco.com/images/sureshop_merchant.gif24% cashback
Via Quidco

Don't buy Vitamin D from Zipvit it's the least effective, prescription form Ergocalciferol Vitamin D2. (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/84/4/694) Otherwise Zipvit are OK. Always worth checking Simply Supplements (http://www.simplysupplements.net/?gclid=CKjUiOONwY4CFQESEgodLnnRwA) as well

But remember most vitamins mineral are best most efficiently absorbed from food sources. (http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=faq&dbid=33#whole) If for example you are concerned about PAIN in your joints you have to understand that pain is the result of inflammation (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17728071&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVDocSum) and what is needed is more natural anti inflammatory agents in your system. We have an epidemic of low vitamin D status throughout the year (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/3/860). Most people don't consume the 4g of Omega 3 the body requires daily and although I have probably posted frequently about Netto's 18p Sardines in Tomato sauce I've never seen anyone else buying them nor do I see many others appreciating the health benefits of home ground flaxseed (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=342262) which are a good source of magnesium (another anti inflammatory substance) as is Green tea (http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=146)

The above isn't to put you off buying chondroitin (http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/Arthritis/CSOA.html)or glucosamine (http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band85/b85-2.html) but I do hope you try to use your diet and regular exposure to sunshine to increase the amount of natural anti inflammatory agents available for your body to use and also consider an effective strength of Vitamin D3 daily if you want to extend your life span (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070910162408.htm).

footyfan

13-09-2007, 9:01 PM

Thanks for the Quidco 'heads-up' for Healthy Direct, Ted_Hutchinson. :T

The information you've provided, particularly about natural anti-inflamatory agents and natural sources, is also very interesting.

DebtphobicDeirdre

14-09-2007, 9:14 AM

:T :T :T Ted, Ted, Ted!
I am a Netto sardine addict because of you, even the dog gets them twice a week. Also I am very aware of the Sun as my main supplier of Vit D and now I have my coffee grinder I can actually get benefit from the flax seeds which I have been taking to help with constipation-dominant IBS (aka Swelly Belly in my family.) You are a household name at the Debtphobic's Digs and I'm truly sorry that you haven't been aware of our appreciation.

bolt757

14-09-2007, 12:07 PM

Good morning,
I suggest you go to Vitacost to buy top brand vitamins at the lowest cost. Use the following link to view an introduction to the Vitacost web site.

http://drwalkerfastanddetoxdiet.com/vitacost1.15.html

Have a good day, week and year,
Bruce

Ted_Hutchinson

15-09-2007, 10:41 AM

Good morning,
I suggest you go to Vitacost to buy top brand vitamins at the lowest cost. Vitacost Acetyl L-Carnitine HCl -- 500 mg - 300 Capsules $29.99
Acetyl-L-Carnitine 500mg zipvit 90 £7.45 or £24.83 for 300

CoQ10 -- 100 mg - 120 Vitacost these are a slightly lower strength than Zipvit $11.88
Zipvit Co-Enzyme-Q10 120mg - 120 £43.95

The postage from USA is a bit much $32.18 but I still show a saving on the Zipvit price. I'll let you know have fast they come and what happens about VAT.

bolt757

16-09-2007, 1:24 PM

Good morning Ted,
Your quote:
"We must raise the RDA of vitamin D3 to 4000iu/d, & TUL to 10,000iu/d. Adequate Vitamin D intake reduces cancer incidence 77%. and has now been shown to increase by 2-3yrs your life expectancy. Arch Intern Med. 2007;167:1709-1710", should be of interest to all.

Vitacost sells (item #NI 005994) Vitamin D3 with 2,000 IU, 300 caps for $11.99. Taking two of these caps per day cost about 6 cents. This is a extremely low cost to pay to reduces cancer incidence 77%.

For an introduction to vitacost online vitamins at wholesale cost go to:

http://drwalkerfastanddetoxdiet.com/vitacost1.15.html

Have a good day, week and year,
Bruce

Ted_Hutchinson

16-09-2007, 2:39 PM

Vitacost sells (item #NI 005994) Vitamin D3 with 2,000 IU, 300 caps for $11.99. Taking two of these caps per day cost about 6 cents. This is a extremely low cost to pay to reduces cancer incidence 77% (http://www2.creighton.edu/publicrelations/newscenter/news/2007/june2007/june82007/vitamind_cancer_nr060807/index.php)
But you can buy 5000iu/D3 from Biotec (http://www.bio-tech-pharm.com/products/d35.html)at $15.70 X 250 capsules
and shipping would run between $12-$15.

It's the shipping $32.18 to the UK from Vitacost that pushes up the price too much (unless you are buying a load of other stuff)

Because the half life of Vit d is around 3 weeks it doesn't matter if you take a high dose capsule on fewer days of the week. To average 4000iu/daily you just need to take 5 x 5000iu one week and 6 x 5000iu the next this totals 55000iu / 14 = 3929iu/daily.

I work out that if you are just buying high strength vitamin d3 it will work out cheaper to go via Biotec but either way you are right to suggest it is a trivial amount of money to stay vitamin D replete. (even cheaper to use free sun when it's available)

I'm a bit puzzled as to why you use the link you provide and not a direct link to Vitacost Official Site (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=L&ai=BllCGQzHtRvWZEoWEwQGQp4nGDPPq2S_r3-HkA8DvhgfQhgMIABABGAE4AFDBt6GoAmC7vq6D0AqqASBHR0xK K0dHTEo6MjAwNy0yMitHR0xKOmVuK0dHTEo6TsgBAcgC7_mXAd kDVX8eEwTUT8A&q=http://www.vitacost.com/asp/default.asp%3FID%3DADWINTLvitacost&usg=AFQjCNGDhb-9Szr3k1ZIIyJ0rS1XNwoIHQ) Is it some kind of affiliate link? If so it should perhaps be on the Referrers Board (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.html?f=42)

SkylineDriver

16-09-2007, 5:53 PM

Ted_Hutchinson

16-09-2007, 6:08 PM

I used to use healthy direct but the products take ages to arrive. I now use zipvit and have done for the last 12 months, they can not be beaten on price and if you find the product cheaper elsewhere then they will match the price. Delivery is always either the next day or the day after to :TI must admit to generally being a satisfied Zipvit customer but I have to say that when I challenged a price match they messed me around somewhat dreadfully, passing me from pillar to post, moving the goal posts, creating delay so I nearly gave up they were simply trying to evade their pledge. I wouldn't bother to try that again, more hassle than it was worth.
Totally different at Simply Supplements. When I tried a price pledge with them I explained where the cheaper price was and without checking with a supervisor, the deduction was made.

I doubt Zipvit though will price match against a USA supplier though. Just look at the difference in price on the two items listed in post #8 (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=6288753&postcount=8)

Ted_Hutchinson

20-09-2007, 3:17 PM

My order from Vitacost arrived today 20th Sept ordered Monday 17th Sept so can't complain I doubt this took longer than from any UK supplier.
Cost of order was £75.28
I had an extra £23.89 to pay VAT/import duty
So Total cost £99.17

The Zipvit cost would have been
Carnitine £24.83
Co q10 £43.83 x 2= £87.86 but because Zipvits are 120 rather than 100mg this represents an extra 24 capsules cost £8.79 so 87.86-8.79 =£79.07
omega 3 £16.32 The Vitacost was stronger so more convienient.
Magnesium citrate £30.70 (not available from Zipvit but nearest equivalent from other UK supplier)
Vit E COMPLEX £35.98 equivalent from Holland and Barrett as Zipvit don't do Vit E complex.

24.83+79.07+16.32+30.70+35.98=£186.90 cost of order from UK I paid £99.17 so saving £87.83 and I only had to put in one order and not have to source from 3 different places.

If you wanted
Glucosamine Sulphate 500mg with Chondroitin 400mg
50 at £6.99 3 per day approx 22 packs year cost approx = £154
whereas vitacost 180 Capsules $19.99 for 6 packs $120 +$32 p&p + vat and surcharge £23 so the saving would be about £50

Carlakoala

21-09-2007, 9:57 AM

I use a UK company called Higher Nature. They are not the cheapest but deliver is within 24-48 hours. They have very high standards. they explain why mins and vits are so cheap from other sources. They also have a free advice line so you can talk in detail about your needs rather than guessing.
they are on the net.

Ted_Hutchinson

21-09-2007, 10:31 AM

I use a UK company called Higher Nature. You can get to Higher Nature through Quidco so that will reduce their exorbitant prices by 5%.

If we take CoQ10 they charge COQ09090 veg tabs 38p each £33.90 x 90 and these are 30mg so the cost per 100mg CoQ10 would be 38/30*100=£1.27p
To take 100mg of Coenzyme Q10 (http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/12/2/159.pdf) using Higher Nature just isn't economic. The price I paid at Vitacost is economic

If you look at their omega 3 it contains only 1000mg fish oil, providing 165mg EPA, 110 DHA. that's only 275mg omega 3 for 7p to obtain the 4 g of omega 3 your body needs daily would require 15 of these capsules £1.05 a tin of Netto's sardines provides 2g of omega 3 at a cost of 18p (plus calcium in the fish and lycopene in the tomato sauce)
2 tablespoons of ground flaxseed (http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=81)(cost £6ish a 5kg bag) but provides 3.5g of omega 3

Higher Nature Vitamin D (500iu) 12.5ug. 5p a capsule

I pay that for 5000iu (http://www.bio-tech-pharm.com/products/d35.html) an effective amount You cannot argue that the cheap stuff I bought direct from the makers isn't as good or as effective because my vitamin D3 status is exactly what Heaney says it should be with 5000iu/d intake(see session 3 slide 33 (http://app2.capitalreach.com/esp1204/servlet/tc?cn=asbmr&c=10169&s=20343&e=6950&&))

500iu will raise your vit d status by only around 12nmol/L (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/85/3/649)
UK adults now (end of summer) average 70nmol/L (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/3/860) and need to raise to 137.5 to be at the level associated with lowest cancer incidence in winter our average status drops to 40nmol/L (http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/rapidpdf/jc.2007-1279v1) so even more supplement is required.
Risk assessment for Vitamin D. (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/85/1/6)

(http://www.bio-tech-pharm.com/products/d35.html)

shokadelika

30-09-2007, 10:15 PM

Some really cheap products here and one of the most extrenisive ranges I have found selling Vitamins ,Foods,Essential oils,Nutritional oils,even Flour and toothpastes (which are excellent) Skincare etc all are at NOW Vitamins : free shipping on orders over 30 Euros £3Euros for under that amount priced in Euros head office in Surrey.

http://www.euvitaminservice.com/

Ted check out the price fror their Mag Citrate Powder!http://www.euvitaminservice.com/minerals-calcium-magnesium-pure-powders.html

http://www.euvitaminservice.com/

belfastgirl23

16-11-2007, 3:19 PM

I know this might be a bit more of a grabbit but boots have some great deals on vitamins at the moment. A lot of their vitamins are half price and also on 3 for 2 which effectively means buy one get two free...

And if you spend £45 you get free delivery and there's a code for £10 off when you spend £50 - SJMA36 plus 3.5% via quidco.

Good deal!

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/images/threadbanner.gif

Ted_Hutchinson

16-11-2007, 4:45 PM

A lot of their vitamins are half price and also on 3 for 2 which effectively means buy one get two free...

And if you spend £45 you get free delivery and there's a code for £10 off when you spend £50 - SJMA36 plus 3.5% via quidco I did start a thread in Shop till you drop on their Vitamin D (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=575584)that is BOTH half price AND 3 for 2 online but only 3 for 2 on the high street.

Don't get carried away though. On the whole nutrients are best obtained in their natural form from food sources (http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=faq&dbid=33#faqtitle) and much of the stuff sold has little if any scientific backing.
But with stuff like Boots Super Strength Concentrated Fish Oils 60s (http://www.boots.com/shop/product_details.jsp?productid=1058098) that is also on both half price AND 3 for 2 you get 180 capsules for £10.98
But you still have to consider Zipvit sell
EPA + DHA Super Strength Omega Fish Oil - 1000mg - 360 £14.45

Fern Merkin

14-02-2008, 12:36 PM

Does anyone have any recommendations for cheap High Street or On-line Vitamin / supplement suppliers, please?

Thanks in advance! :D

sugarmuffin

14-02-2008, 12:44 PM

Hiya, I get all my vitamins from Simplysupplements.co.uk - most of the stuff is buy one get one free, plus it's free delivery too! :j

Fern Merkin

14-02-2008, 4:15 PM

Thanks very much Sugarmuffin! you are a star:j

got all I needed at less than I thought it'd be. It's the free P&P that's the best tho':D

:beer:

icefall

14-02-2008, 4:29 PM

I realize its a bit late but a good place to go is Zipvit as its only a £1 p&p
Good quality vitamins, I have been using them for a couple of years and have found them reliable and reasonable too.

There is also a discount code here
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=767371

barginunter

14-02-2008, 7:00 PM

Lidl do multi-vits + lutein (for eye health) 100 tabs for £2.90ish.

ixwood

14-02-2008, 7:40 PM

Fern Merkin

15-02-2008, 8:27 AM

The vit D is on sale and I've been meaning to get some after being convinced by Ted.

http://www.simplysupplements.net/product_info.php?cPath=47&products_id=295&osCsid=29a9294fe8ab68675af3b9d5c7ea2946

Is this a good deal? How much do they normally cost? Is it the right kind Ted (figure you surely won't miss a thread wth vitamins in the title! :))?

That's quite a coincidence as that was my reason for asking :D

Go for the smaller bottle as it works out cheaper (about 1.1p each). It's the D3 as recommended. I ordered some anyway and a few other things as well. All seem good value compared to the first few google results I checked.
Here's to better health on the cheap:rotfl:

rabialiones

15-02-2008, 5:05 PM

poundland, home bargains and 99p stores also sell vitamins and some supplements

floydy

15-02-2008, 10:57 PM

got a mountain of garlic caps going cheap,lol

djohn2002uk

15-02-2008, 11:38 PM

The vit D is on sale and I've been meaning to get some after being convinced by Ted.

http://www.simplysupplements.net/product_info.php?cPath=47&products_id=295&osCsid=29a9294fe8ab68675af3b9d5c7ea2946

Is this a good deal? How much do they normally cost? Is it the right kind Ted (figure you surely won't miss a thread wth vitamins in the title! :))?

These are only 400iu and what Ted uses are 2500iu. Problem is the larger dose tablet appears to be unavailable in this country. Ted gets his from USA.

Tigersilly

15-02-2008, 11:41 PM

I'm wary of buying cheap vits and minerals in case they are less potent - do people feel they actually work?

Paul Varjak

16-02-2008, 2:17 PM

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http://www.vitaminmaniac.com/

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http://www.hitmusicsmoviesdownload.com/skincare/guide_to_buy_vitamins_online.php

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So, what does this prove? It just proves I can prove anything by linking to articles on the internet!

Petty Vagrant

16-02-2008, 3:20 PM

I always go to www.healthydirect.com (http://www.healthydirect.com), free p&p on orders over £10. They have a good range of products and decent fast service.

But the best bit is 25% off if you go through Quidco :rotfl:

WallyBird

19-02-2008, 5:24 PM

We wait until Holland and Barrett have their special offers (eg 75% off), then stock up in bulk!
If you want things you can't get in the UK, or are very expensive here, then iherb.com has a lot of choice. If you get it sent by normal post, and in small quantities (less than £18 to be under import duty threshold) it works out quite cheap, especially with the strong pound.

As for the nonsense above - what does it prove? Nothing at all! It may disprove the idea that all people who take vitamins talk sense! Proof is not easy, that's why refutation is a core method in science.
:j

Ted_Hutchinson

19-02-2008, 9:55 PM

If you get it sent by normal post, and in small quantities (less than £18 to be under import duty threshold) it works out quite cheap, especially with the strong pound.I've also used Iherb and found them cheap and efficient.

Proof is not easy, that's why refutation is a core method in science.
:jSearching PubMed Home (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/) or Googlescholar (http://scholar.google.com/advanced_scholar_search?hl=en&lr=&as_ylo=2007) with the name of the vitamin will bring up a number of recent references. That number is a very rough guide to the amount of interest medical health researchers are showing in that supplement. The titles of papers gives an idea of the type of action that supplement may be associated with and a scan of the abstract will give you an idea of whether there is any logic or value in considering the matter.

I cannot see the point in using anything that hasn't got a good science

Coenzyme Q 10 (http://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_q=Coenzyme+Q10&num=10&btnG=Search+Scholar&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_occt=any&as_sauthors=&as_publication=&as_ylo=2007&as_yhi=&as_allsubj=all&hl=en&lr=)

Cholecalciferol (http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=Cholecalciferol&as_ylo=2007&as_yhi=&btnG=Search)

Omega 3 EPA (http://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_q=omega+3+epa&num=10&btnG=Search+Scholar&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_occt=any&as_sauthors=&as_publication=&as_ylo=&as_yhi=&as_allsubj=all&hl=en&lr=)

It doesn't take long to find those supplements that are currently showing real measurable useful effects and stop wasting money on products that haven't any measurable benefit.

Nile

19-02-2008, 10:39 PM

Hello Fern Merkin

I'll move your thread to the 'Health & Beauty' board.

Hi, Martin’s asked me to post this in these circumstances: I’ve asked Board Guides to move threads if they’ll receive a better response elsewhere(please see this rule (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=1009335#post1009335)) so this post/thread has been moved to another board, where it should get more replies. If you have any questions about this policy please email abuse@moneysavingexpert.com (abuse@moneysavingexpert.com).

Regards

Nile

Ted_Hutchinson

20-02-2008, 9:48 AM

I'm wary of buying cheap vits and minerals in case they are less potent - do people feel they actually work?As people here should know I use 5000iu/daily Cholecalciferol.
I buy from Bio-Tech D3-5 (http://www.bio-tech-pharm.com/products/d35.html)
Yesterday (19th Feb) I received my last order (11th Feb) the total cost of 500 X 5000iu + P&P was $41.80 so that's $20.90 or £10.73 a pot which divided by 250 works out at 4.3p each.

Holland and Barrett work out at (http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=826)7.49p each 1000iu so to take an effective amount (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/77/1/204)would cost 37.5p daily.

Healthy direct 400iu 360 tablets £6.99 (was £7.99) (http://www.healthydirect.com/hdStore/product/0143/d.jsf) cost 1.9 peach but you would need 12 daily to achieve the same impact as each single tablet can only raise status 7nmol/l and with current average UK adult status at below 40nmol/l 12X7=84 and 84 +40=124nmol/l approx optimal status. So without the Quidco discount you would spend 23.3 p daily and have the fag of counting and taking 12 tablets daily. Heathly direct are D3 it's Zipvit that sells ergocacolciferol. (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/84/4/694)

Do I know for sure that these Cholecalciferol D3 work. Absolutely.
I had a 25(OH)D test last year at the end of summer (I take daily the equivalent of 20minutes sun exposure so obviously if I also get the opportunity to sunbathe I don't bother with the next days D3) my level was 147.5nmol/l just under the level I would naturally acquire if I spent every day (between April/September) naked in the sunshine but just nicely above the level associated with the lowest overall cancer incidence.

Each 400iu raises status by 7nmol/l (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/85/3/649) so the 1000iu Holland and Barrett can only raise status around 17.5nmol/l and you can see from Not enough vitamin D (http://www.cfp.ca/cgi/content/full/53/5/841?searchid=1) and this (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/3/860)what size an effective dose must be.

While of course every little helps, sometimes it is necessary, to really feel the benefits of a supplement, to ensure the amount you take is sufficient to raise circulation levels to over a particular threshold. In the case of Calcium you need to understand that raising your D status above 80nmol/l is fundamental to calcium homeostasis. (http://www.europeansunlight.eu/research/uvradvitd/Heaney%20(2005).pdf)

The investigators found that patients with serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D of approximately 52 ng/mL - 130nmol/l had a 50% lower risk for breast cancer than those with serum measuring less than 13 ng/mL 32.5nmol/l (current UK adult status). This level corresponds to a vitamin D intake of 4000 IU per day. (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/552033)I don't have to remind you that research is from the USA and they live nearer the equator(hotter sun) and on a continent (more hours sunshine) and drink/eat Vit d fortified milk/cereals, thats why they need less than we do.

health76

25-02-2008, 9:19 PM

Pop - first post!!

Saw this thread and thought I could help. Been lurking for a bit, but this is something of a speciality of mine and so thought I should pipe up...

Don't bother spending big money on branded Cod Liver Oil or Omega 3's as there is very little difference (if actually any at all) from the product you get from Poundland, Home Bargains or 99p Store (I know because I work in the industry). Check the levels of EPA and DHA (the important constituent of the Omega-3 fatty acids) in the Omega 3 and Cod Liver Oils, and you'll find that most of the Seven Seas stuff is nothing special (compared with the bargain stores) and should be avoided if you want value for money.

The pound/ 99p -stores usually sell Omega 3 in 500mg capsules, and you can get 80 of these for a pound at Poundland. That is absolutely exceptional value (even compared to on-line) and there is absolutely no reason why you should buy from anywhere else...

If anyone wants any info on any other bargain supplements then let me know as it's something of a speciality.

treliac

26-02-2008, 12:27 AM

This is a subject that I am fanatical about. The following links to the ultimate authoritative guide (IMO)

http://www.raysahelian.com/

I have bought from this site and from another USA company,

http://www.immunesupport.com/boost_your_immune_system.htm

Both have provided 100% reliable and speedy delivery at very reasonable costs. I highly recommend them.

Sixten

26-02-2008, 12:55 PM

I wait for the Boots - but one, get one free offer, and I have found them to be great plus a good different selection of vits.

Ted_Hutchinson

26-02-2008, 5:56 PM

Don't bother spending big money on branded Cod Liver Oil or Omega 3's as there is very little difference (if actually any at all) from the product you get from Poundland, Home Bargains or 99p Store (I know because I work in the industry). Check the levels of EPA and DHA (the important constituent of the Omega-3 fatty acids) in the Omega 3 and Cod Liver Oils, and you'll find that most of the Seven Seas stuff is nothing special (compared with the bargain stores) and should be avoided if you want value for money.

The pound/ 99p -stores usually sell Omega 3 in 500mg capsules, and you can get 80 of these for a pound at Poundland. That is absolutely exceptional value (even compared to on-line) and there is absolutely no reason why you should buy from anywhere else... .
Typically 500mg Omega 3 contain 77mg EPA/55mg DHA.=132mg omega 3

a person consuming 2000 calories per day should eat sufficient omega-3-rich foods to provide at least 4 grams of omega-3 fatty acids. (http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=84#foodsources)

4 ounce piece of salmon contains 1.5 grams of omega 3 fats.
a tin of Nettos sardines (23p ish) contains 2.1g omega3

So to get as much omega3 as in one portion of salmon requires 11 x 500mg capsules

To get as much omega 3 as in one tin of sardines takes around 16 POUNDLAND capsules.
16x 1.25= 20p but the tin of sardines also provides vitamin d and calcium.

Simply supplements triple strength (http://www.simplysupplements.net/product_info.php?products_id=275&osCsid=468377a52a51980c3f6dc2c12765cbf7)provide 550mg omega 3 and cost 4p each
you would only need 3 (12p) of these to meet the salmon portion or 4 (16p) daily beats the tin of sardines. Easier, less capsules to count and swallow, and cheaper.

health76

26-02-2008, 6:24 PM

Ted_Hutchinson

26-02-2008, 9:52 PM

Thanks for the info Ted... Fair point about the fish containing other nutrients, but then some people don't like the taste of fish, so capsules are usually more convenient. As to the triple-strength capsules you pointed out, people should be aware that they are very large capsules compared to the Poundland 500mg ones, and so are not suitable for everyone.I think you exaggerate somewhat. I have a triple strength capsule in front of me and the diameter is smaller the a 500mg capsule and the length is somewhat shorter than 2 500mg capsules. Those who have trouble swallowing may prefer Zipvit Omega Juice £5.99 360ml provides 1500mg omega 3 (equivalent to 11 poundland capsules cost 13.75p) for 8.3p
You also need to watch out for some of these sites (including the one you pointed out), as I've noticed that they're not always 100% honest about what they are selling, and they inflate some of the figures (eg Glucosamine Sulphate, Soya Isoflavones on the site you pointed out)... I would have thought trading standards would be on to them if their tablets or capsules didn't contain the stated amount. Have you any independent evidence to support that claim?
If there is evidence of malpractice I'd be interested to see independent laboratory reports to support the allegation.
Until I see the evidence I take such claims with a pinch of salt.

I would agree that ALL the vitamin/supplement providers (including the high street chains) over hype the effectiveness of various products but no more so that the drug companies. This is why I get so annoyed when evidence based information showing the results of placebo controlled trials get deleted from these threads. How people are supposed to make sensible decisions about what to buy when the only independent research is deliberately and persistently kept from them is beyond me.

dougz

26-02-2008, 9:55 PM

As people here should know I use 5000iu/daily Cholecalciferol.
I buy from Bio-Tech D3-5 (http://www.bio-tech-pharm.com/products/d35.html)...
Do I know for sure that these Cholecalciferol D3 work. Absolutely.
I had a 25(OH)D test last year...
I am new here so this is the first I have thought about vitamin D(3?) requirement beyond the RDA, but given that I get very little sun I think it could be a big issue. How did you get your test done?

The bio-tech site you mentioned seems to be under re-construction today, can you happen to suggest anywhere else with secure online ordering?

Ted_Hutchinson

26-02-2008, 10:02 PM

I have bought from this site and from another USA company, Well if you used Iherb (http://www.iherb.com/)you'd get just as good service and cheaper prices IMO.
Remember if your import exceeds more than £18 you may get caught for VAT plus a handling charge. Iherb are cheaper for delivery as well as cheaper for each of the products I compared.

Ted_Hutchinson

26-02-2008, 10:29 PM

I am new here so this is the first I have thought about vitamin D(3?) requirement beyond the RDA, but given that I get very little sun I think it could be a big issue. How did you get your test done? You ask your GP for a 25(OH)D test.

Most GP's don't know anything about vitamin d so you may need to do some explaining. If you say you have read Hypovitaminosis D in British adults at age 45 y: (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/3/860)
and understand most UK adults have only half the vitamin d needed to enable optimal absorption of calcium and you want to check you aren't on of them you may be lucky and get it done on the NHS. If not ask your GP to download a referral form from TDL Pathology Website - About The Doctors Laboratory (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tdlpathology.com%2Findex.php% 3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26id%3D52%26I temid%3D84&ei=p43ER8WfDZGq0gTB7qDTDQ&usg=AFQjCNF3owcnnQ3pp3k45sTDni85Hjb9sw&sig2=sqFi1KeEgAVggmZB8nH95w)
these people will do one for about £40

But do also be aware that the threshold for adverse events is around 350nmol/l and most UK adults even in summer don't go above 70nmol/l. For Cancer prevention you need 125 (http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/news/ng.asp?id=79545-university-of-california-vitamin-d-upper-limit)-130 nmol/l Cannell suggests anyone with a cancer diagnosis should aim for 150nmol/l (http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/2008-jan.shtml)

The only reason I got tested was to find out how easy/difficult it was to get a test. Risk Assessment for Vitamin D proves up to 10,000iu/daily is absolutely safe (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/85/1/6)and thats double anyone reading this needs to take. I take 5000iu daily. My level around 147.5nmol/l but I also grab as much midday full body sun exposure as possible between April -September.

The bio-tech site you mentioned seems to be under re-construction today, can you happen to suggest anywhere else with secure online ordering?I use 1899 (http://www.1899.com/) or 18185 (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.18185.co.uk%2F&ei=mpDER6ejK6LszQTk9oSqDg&usg=AFQjCNGEDgk-cFt5hwO-e4QG0D5s8toCLQ&sig2=B7pGGCyMTSMzKxVc8tZaMA) to ring them when it's daytime in USA (http://www.time.gov/).
You get to speak to a real person who will put your card details on their computer system so next time you order you can just email them. Only order a Maximum of 2 pots at a time or you may get caught for VAT + handling charge.
Placing Orders:
- Call 479-443-9148 from 8:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. (CST) to speak with a customer service representative
- Call Toll Free at 1-800-345-1199, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to leave an automated message
- Fax 479-443-5643, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week
- 24 hours, 7 days a week Web access
- E-mail customer service at service@bio-tech-pharm.com (customerservice@bio-tech-pharm.com)

I think when I last checked it was cheaper to use bio tech direct than anyone else but that was a while ago.

Lifespan nutrition also sell bio tech (http://http://www.lifespannutrition.com/products.asp?query=Bio-Tech-Pharm)
they also have a downloadable booklet to bring your vit d (http://www.lifespannutrition.com/30MinutesSunshine.pdf) understanding up to date.

treliac

27-02-2008, 9:14 PM

Well if you used Iherb (http://www.iherb.com/)you'd get just as good service and cheaper prices IMO.
Remember if your import exceeds more than £18 you may get caught for VAT plus a handling charge. Iherb are cheaper for delivery as well as cheaper for each of the products I compared.

Thanks Ted. I buy from the US when I can find better prices than over here and/or when I want products not easily found or licensed in the UK. Having looked at one or two of the items I purchase, Iherb looks to compare well. I haven't checked postage but will no doubt try them where they are priced well for me now you have drawn my attention.

I have been caught out by the import duty charge on orders exceeding the £18 value, so have been very careful not to do this again. Makes being able to buy maximum quantities for minimum value extra important, taking p & p into account.

Dr Sahelian's site is fantastic, not just for making purchases, but for the extensive information and balanced discussion he provides on a very wide range of supplements. I have yet to find any other source that is comparable in 'educational' terms.

Ted_Hutchinson

27-02-2008, 11:19 PM

Dr Sahelian's site is fantastic, not just for making purchases, but for the extensive information and balanced discussion he provides on a very wide range of supplements. I have yet to find any other source that is comparable in 'educational' terms.Well I could, but it would probably get deleted, spend the next couple of hours explaining in detail everything that is wrong with his Vitamin d information.

If the rest of the site is as dangerously misguided as his vit d information then it's not a site that anyone should rely on.

I will limit myself to simply reminding readers that 400iu raises status by only 7nmol/l. (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/85/3/649)
Most UK adults currently have a vit d status around 40nmol/l. (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/3/860)
the oral dose of vitamin D3 to attain and maintain 25(OH)D levels >80 nmol/L is 2200 IU/d if baseline levels are 20 to 40 nmol/L (http://www.cfp.ca/cgi/content/full/53/5/841?searchid=1) to attain the level associated with least cancer/heart disease requires double that amount.

Putting out of date, inaccurate, information online is unforgivable.

treliac

28-02-2008, 12:35 AM

IMO the site is very balanced, informative, instructional and with a sensible approach to the application of caution - as I would expect from a medical doctor who has spent many years developing a specialism.

To make judgement and base an argument solely around the debate on a single vitamin is hardly a scientific approach. For the record, I quote from Sahelian's balanced discussion of vitamin D:

What's the right Vitamin D dose for cancer prevention?
There is some evidence that high levels of vitamin D may reduce colon cancer and breast cancer and some researchers are suggesting people take up to 2,000 international units (IU) of vitamin D a day in a form called vitamin D3 ( cholecalciferol ). However, there could be a risk for vitamin D excess or toxicity when these high dosages are taken for prolonged periods. The 2,000-IU daily dose of vitamin D is considered the "tolerable upper limit" for vitamin D, according to the National Academy of Sciences' Institute of Medicine (IOM). Until we learn more about the side effects of vitamin D excess, I prefer users not exceed 1,000 units of vitamin D a day.

It is also important to factor in the level of sunlight an individual is exposed to / sources of vitamin d other than supplementation.

However, this is only one single area of discussion from an extremely thoughtful and detailed site, with continued and ongoing updating. Don't forget, there are always many and often contradictory views, even amongst the 'experts.' At the end of the day, you pays your money and takes your choice.

Ted_Hutchinson

28-02-2008, 10:05 AM

To make judgement and base an argument solely around the debate on a single vitamin is hardly a scientific approach. For the record, I quote from Sahelian's balanced discussion of vitamin D:It is so utterly absurd and non-sensical to suggest only amounts of vitamin d up to 1000iu of vitamin d should be used that only an irrational person would suggest it.

Telling someone with a 25(OH)D status below 40nmol/l (as most UK readers currently are) they should restrict their intake to that which can raise status by only 17.5nmol/l (http://www.cfp.ca/cgi/content/full/53/5/841?searchid=1) is dangerously misguided. Risk assessment for vitamin D (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/85/1/6) explains the safety in greater detail.
Come April when UVB reaches the ground in the UK, take off your clothes at midday, go outside for 20 minutes and your skin will make 5000iu. If you repeat the process you body will easily make 15,000iu of D3.

Only a fool or a conman would suggest obtaining 10,000iu/colecalciferol from natural sunlight is potentially toxic. To say, without evidence to back it up, the amounts of vitamin d the body naturally acquires daily, when given the opportunity, are potential toxic when absorbed in supplement form is simply scaremongering.
We must not allow those with a vested interest in promoting the sale of allopathic treatments manipulate the system so the total amount of illness is increased.
Try reading this BMJ article.
Doctors’ education: the invisible influence of drug company sponsorship (http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/336/7641/416)

treliac

28-02-2008, 10:35 PM

It is so utterly absurd and non-sensical to suggest only amounts of vitamin d up to 1000iu of vitamin d should be used that only an irrational person would suggest it.

If you ignore medical research and prefer to concentrate on the analysis of nutritionists, that is fine for you yourself but you should not be advocating such beliefs to others. Making an informed decision requires an ability to acknowledge and understand all relevant current information and research around a subject. The science involved here is above the level of understanding of the general public.

Vitamin D is fat soluble and is stored in the body. Accumulation of large dosages can, over the course of time, risk damage to health. To throw some extra into the controversy, you may like to read the following, which is an extract from:

http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum2/2572.html

"Unfortunately, one cannot rely on nutritionists to understand the actions of Cholecalciferol. They still call it a Vitamin. It is not, it is a steroid hormone precursor. All the evidence I am seeing indicates our body doesn't need it at all. All in all, the misclassification of Cholecalciferol (as a Vitamin) is likely to become one of the biggest debacles clinical science has ever made."

Dr. Trevor Marshall, PhD

Some other sites worth a look:

http://pennhealth.com/ency/article/001594.htm
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003569.htm
http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/40001604/

This site is supposed to be for the discussion of money saving. It is not for pseudo-health advice, which is dangerous and unethical.

As a footnote, the old argument about vested interests of drug companies is well known and, as such, is not directly relevant to this debate.

lotto-dreamer

28-02-2008, 11:10 PM

Pop - first post!!

Saw this thread and thought I could help. Been lurking for a bit, but this is something of a speciality of mine and so thought I should pipe up...

.......Seven Seas stuff is nothing special (compared with the bargain stores) and should be avoided if you want value for money.

.....If anyone wants any info on any other bargain supplements then let me know as it's something of a speciality.

Advice, yes please! :D

I've been trying to find a good cheap alternative to Seven Seas Multi Spectrum but thought cheaper may mean inferior when it comes to things like vitamins (I particularly like this Seven Seas combination as it includes choline and inositol)

meant to add - I'm not keen on very large capsules which is why I like the Seven Seas ones as they're very easy to swallow

dougz

29-02-2008, 12:16 AM

Looks like this is trying to turn into a vitamin D thread... anyway.

Firstly, that marshall plan fanatically Anti vitamin D stuff, that treliac quoted, comes across as bonkers to me. In addition to shunning any food naturally containing any vitamin D, they also advocating the avoidance of all sunlight, for up to 3 years! Their arguments also contradict themselves several times at which point I lost interest. I suspect it is best summed up by their own admission: http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum2/4213.html "How successful is this marshall protocol treatment...? ...to date there have been no formal clinical trials...

Secondly, my mum happened to be going to see her GP today anyway, so I gave her a printout of the abstract that Ted linked to take along, to see if the doctor might get her a 25-D test. The doctor was actually very interested, took a copy of the abstract, and has called her back in to take a sample for the test tomorrow, and will do it on the NHS. The result should be back in a week.

treliac

29-02-2008, 1:40 AM

Dougz

Perhaps this is more readable for you:

http://bacteriality.com/2007/09/15/vitamind/#3

I have no axe to grind - just want to rebalance this debate. But I do think it makes very interesting reading.

My main point is that it is unsafe and unethical to give advice and recommendation on health issues especially when repeating one's own preferred mantra, which is not grounded in sound and accepted medical evidence and where there is a significant body of scientists who promote the dangers inherent in such self-medication.

Ted_Hutchinson

29-02-2008, 10:27 AM

This site is supposed to be for the discussion of money saving. It is not for pseudo-health advice, which is dangerous and unethical.Exactly which is why it is important that the main stream opinion of Vitamin D experts should be taken note of and not the ideas propounded by Trevor Marshall that are not support by main stream medical research scientists.

We evolved for over 2 million years living mainly outdoors. Our bodies work best when this fact is not forgotten. This research shows the level of 25(OH)D our body naturally attains and maintains given adequate exposure to sunshine or supplements of effective strength. (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=17218096)

It is reasonable to question the advice currently propounded by Dawn Primarolo (http://www.gnn.gov.uk/environment/fullDetail.asp?ReleaseID=341224&NewsAreaID=2&NavigatedFromDep) when that advice will lead to more ill health than it prevents.

High prevalence of vitamin D deficiency in newborn infants of high-risk mothers (http://adc.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/92/9/750?lookupType=volpage&vol=92&fp=750&view=short)

lexa34

01-03-2008, 3:04 AM

Advice, yes please! :D

I've been trying to find a good cheap alternative to Seven Seas Multi Spectrum but thought cheaper may mean inferior when it comes to things like vitamins (I particularly like this Seven Seas combination as it includes choline and inositol)

meant to add - I'm not keen on very large capsules which is why I like the Seven Seas ones as they're very easy to swallow

Trying to find out what is best to take and where to best the best quality, value tablets is a nightmare- where can one start!

I want the hight EPA stuff to possibility help sorting my brain out!
help ...:rotfl:

maytaurus

01-03-2008, 4:41 AM

Hi lexa34 (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/member.html?u=248153)
have a look here
Dosage and Ingredients @
http://www.zipvit.co.uk/cgi-bin/ingredients.cgi

http://www.zipvit.co.uk/cgi-bin/healthnotesmenupage.cgi
I use them all the time ! @
http://www.zipvit.co.uk/

also
http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/index.asp?afid=70&safid=Yahoo&scid=4898 (http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/index.asp?afid=70&safid=Yahoo&scid=4898)

I always get things here when they have a sale

chuckles1066

01-03-2008, 7:03 AM

I'm wary of buying cheap vits and minerals in case they are less potent - do people feel they actually work?

You have to check the dosage against what you're paying otherwise, as you say, you end up thinking you've got a bargain when, in fact, the dosages are so low to be of negligible benefit.

For example, cod liver oil needs to be 1000mg to be of any use - you'll be surprised how many places still sell 400mg capsules.

I use Zipvit....their echinacea pills are the strongest I've found anywhere and they've currently got a silly deal on omega 3 fish oils, 360 x 1000mg capsules for £9.89.

Ted_Hutchinson

01-03-2008, 9:34 AM

You have to check the dosage against what you're paying otherwise, as you say, you end up thinking you've got a bargain when, in fact, the dosages are so low to be of negligible benefit.

I use Zipvit....their echinacea pills are the strongest I've found anywhere and they've currently got a silly deal on omega 3 fish oils, 360 x 1000mg capsules for £9.89.But as you say you have to be very careful to buy the right product to get the best deal.
A39a 360 = £9,89 = 2.75 for 300mg omega 3
A316a 360 =£14.49= 4p for 550 omega 3
Ideally 1.5g omega 3 daily is a reasonable minimum. (http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=84#pubrecs)so the lower strength requires 5 daily cost 13.75p/d
while the stronger ones cost 12p daily and you get a bit extra omega 3 and fewer capsules to swallow.

Zipvit charge £1 for orders less than £16
So those who just want the omega 3 may be better off at Simply Supplements where 360 Omega 3 Triple Action cost £14.35 (http://www.simplysupplements.net/product_info.php?products_id=275&osCsid=982ae10138c365ea6dfd3a224360c7ac) and post and packing is free.

lotto-dreamer

01-03-2008, 10:30 AM

Trying to find out what is best to take and where to best the best quality, value tablets is a nightmare- where can one start!

I want the hight EPA stuff to possibility help sorting my brain out!
help ...:rotfl:

...........me too :D

"...better brains in the head than riches and confusion" (...or maybe not :rolleyes: )

dougz

03-03-2008, 12:49 AM

Perhaps this is more readable for you:
Unfortunately not, looks like more of the same, the jist of which seems to be an untested regime involving the deliberate deprivation of vitamin D as a method to treat specific types of chronic bacterial infection, the sufferers of which are probably willing to try anything in desperation. The advocates of the plan then get carried away with it to the extent of wanting to deprive the rest of the population too. None of which seems relevant to me who simply wants to compensate for lack of sunlight.

Back on the topic of saving money. Given that the larger dosages of vit D tablet work out much cheaper per microgram, I am wondering would it not be cheaper to try to use those instead? For example if your desired supplementation was 1000iu per day why not just take one 5000iu every 5 days instead? I am thinking this should not cause an issue, as it would basically simulate a similarly uneven dosing as would sunbathing once a week.

An even cheaper strategy would be to buy the 50,000ui capsules and split them. I assume they contain powder which could be bulked up in the correct ratio and then either used to fill new empty capsules, or mixed with food or drink.

treliac

03-03-2008, 1:25 AM

if your desired supplementation was 1000iu per day why not just take one 5000iu every 5 days instead? I am thinking this should not cause an issue, as it would basically simulate a similarly uneven dosing as would sunbathing once a week.

I'm glad you're not talking about exceeding Dr Sahelian's recommended max dosage dougz.

I eat plenty of dairy products and supplement via multivitamin/mineral and calcium with vit d to aid absorbtion. I'm vegetarian and keep well, with the assistance of nutritional supplements. Everything in moderation and balance.

dougz

03-03-2008, 8:55 AM

I'm glad you're not talking about exceeding Dr Sahelian's recommended max dosage dougz. .
I haven't actually decided yet. ;) I am still investigating. It may depend result of blood test. This article suggests if it is low enough I could possibly end up getting prescribed well over that by my GP anyway
http://www.clinicalanswers.nhs.uk/index.cfm?question=7309
I would agree that moderation is generally a good policy though.

Ted_Hutchinson

03-03-2008, 1:37 PM

I haven't actually decided yet. ;) I am still investigating. It may depend result of blood test. This article suggests if it is low enough I could possibly end up getting prescribed well over that by my GP anyway
http://www.clinicalanswers.nhs.uk/index.cfm?question=7309
I would agree that moderation is generally a good policy though.I really don't understand why people refuse to listen to the experts.
The case against ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) as a vitamin supplement (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/84/4/694)
this sets out the evidence, there are other papers as well I could list, as to why ergocalciferol should not be used. We know perfectly well it can raise Vitamin D2 status but we do not know that every person with a raised D2 status can utilise that form of Vitamin D. We do know the everyone can use the natural form D3.

The Heartscanblog Dr Davis provided an example a while ago of a woman who came to him who had been taking 50,000iu/d2 regularly for over a year (http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2007/11/vitamin-d2-rip-offs.html)but who just did not respond to it. When a product is both less reliable and more expensive we do have to question the motives and common sense of people who only use or continue to recommend (Both ergocalciferol (25-OHD2) and cholecalciferol (25-OHD3) are effective therapy for vitamin D deficiency (http://www.clinicalanswers.nhs.uk/index.cfm?question=7309),) the least reliable, least effective, most unsafe form.
The urgent need to recommend an intake of vitamin D that is effective (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/85/3/649)
This shows that Supplemental intake of 400 IU vitamin D/d has only a modest effect on blood concentrations of 25(OH)D, raising them by 7–12 nmol/L, depending on the starting point.

If you read this paper Not enough vitamin D (http://www.cfp.ca/cgi/content/full/53/5/841?searchid=1)
you see the oral dose of vitamin D3 to attain and maintain 25(OH)D levels >80 nmol/L is 2200 IU/d if baseline levels are 20 to 40 nmol/L,
That is in Canada where milk/cereals are Vit d fortified, where most Canadians actually live further south than most UK adults and in a continental country where more hours of sunshine are available than in a cloud covered island.

It is only basic maths to work out how much you need to raise your status once you have a 25(OH)D level. I take 5000iu/daily my status was 147.5nmol/l when last tested I would not be happy if it dropped below 125nmol/l.

Risk Assessment Vitamin D (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/85/1/6)
sets out the safety issues. As 10,000iu is suggested as the safe upper limit and it takes 40,000iu/daily for some months before levels start to approach the level at which adverse events occur.
This is what happens when people take 6400iu/daily
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1868557&blobname=nihms20890f2.gif (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1868557&rendertype=figure&id=F2)Figure 2 (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1868557&rendertype=figure&id=F2)Circulating 25(OH)D as a Function of Vitamin D3 Status in Supplemented Subjects
Bear in mind that research with the lactating mothers was done in Charleston latitude 32 so the background sunshine vitamin d availability was also greater than here. I reckon the body has a natural level that it settles at given adequate sun exposure or the equivalent amount of sunshine that natural level (bearing in mind we spend over 200million years evolving living mainly outdoors) is probably the best for health. Certainly significantly over 100nmol/l seems to equate with optimising the amount of vitamin d in breast milk, lower cancer incidence, lower heart disease, lower incidence of infections and optimal feelings of well being.

The Vieth talk here is worth listening to (http://app2.capitalreach.com/esp1204/servlet/tc?cn=asbmr&c=10169&s=20343&e=6950&&)but so are most of them if you have the time.

Diagnosis and treatment of vitamin D deficiency (http://www.expertopin.com/doi/abs/10.1517/14656566.9.1.107)