MOT resulted in grands worth of work????

[neversaynever]

OK so I am not up on cars but hey i took my W reg clio in for its MOT this mornin, rang about 11 and was told it was booked in around 2 ready for 3. At 3ish rang and was told that the cambelt had snapped when they were testing the emmissions. Apparently this could have happened at any time and they asked if the cambelt had been changed at 60k, as my current mileage is 79k. I bought the car having done 72k so was not sure - still not until i get my car back with the docs in it? He said it could cost around a thousand pound to get it fixed. I have used the same garage for years with different cars, little jobs really. He sends his MOT cars to another local garage - my dad had his done at same place N reg Astra last week n it flew through. I am aghast really, desperate for my car for work - just floored me when i heard this. Any suggestions, advice, shoulder to cry on???? don't go tellin me that i should have used a more reputable one cos i have already had that off my ex (any wonder y he is my ex??:mad: ) how can i prove negligence - for all i know they revved the balls off it but i don't so??

[jeannieblue]

Re the last point - they have to rev it high for the emissions test....

Hate to say this, but really should've checked if cam belt had been changed when you bought it. It's a bit of one of those 'if onlys' situations. MOT stations/garages generally speaking, are highly monitored by VOSA these days.

Sorry, but think you have come a cropper here.

Hope I'm wrong...

[hartcjhart]

they dont 'rev the balls of it' BUT have to keep the revs high enough to do the emissions test as JeanniB said,

sadly cambelts will break whenever they want to so sadly no comeback on the garage,

as to reputable(a point for your ex) all garages have to rev the car

as to the cost a grand sounds a little ott BUT I am not sure if when the belt snaps drops the valves drop enough to hit the pistons,if they dont then it should be a hell of a lot cheaper eg

cylinder head complete from breaker/ebay £150 and thats a high price

new belt kit apx £70

Gasket set £40/50

labour 200

apx £500 or cheaper

this is based on a 1.2 petrol model

[Wig]

The MOT test is now rediculous with them revving it so high, but they have to do that according to the test, it's not their fault it's the governments fault

Re: the cam belt, yes the high revving could have been the final straw that broke your belt, but that's your fault for having a belt in poor condition not theirs for high revving see point above..

Should've asked previous owner for proof of last belt change, if none can be supplied should have the belt changed ASAP and factor that into the price you are willing to pay for the vehicle.

W reg clio 79K worth about £1,600

What *I* would do.

Tow the car home assuming it still has some Tax on it keep it on the highway or on your driveway if you got one. ideally it should also be MOT'd aswell but that's less important when it is sat outside your house rather than driving around.

Phone scrap yards to see if they have the correct engine for your car. If you find one, ask if they will swap them for you, or ask a cheap garage if they will arrange to pick up the engine from the scrap man and swap them over for you.

You could also go down the route of asking garage to take off the head to se the damage then obtain a scrapyard replacement cylinder head and have it fitted.

The two options will prbably cost similar amounts, but shouldn't cost more than 500, unless I'm missing something.

[Conor]

The test centres now display clear warnings about the test and what can happen with a car that's not been serviced properly.

[goldspanners]

how can i prove negligence - for all i know they revved the balls off it but i don't so??


its easy you can prove negligence no problem.
as you dont know when the belt was last changed so this proves have been negligent.

ahh,now i see your trying to blame the garage.

whether they have revved the balls off it or it was just ticking over your belt was due to snap if this was the original belt.

its like a joiner coming to do work in your house then he finds its riddled with dry rot,would you still want to prove that the joiner has been negligent?

[anewman]

If the garage intentionally snapped the belt, they'd have probably injured themselves if the car was running, or if not running the car would not have any bent valves or damaged cylinder head. In my opinion garage is not at fault.

As for getting that repair cost down, call around. A good option might be to get hold of a good scrap cylinder head with valves included, and get that fitted.

[jockettuk]

if it was me i would just to put my mind at rest ring around some more garages in cluding local dealers to see how much they would charge for the work and then if they cheaper use that to haggle with the garage, im sure they think you cant afford not to go with them as you cant drive away the car but i would then say to them but yes the other garage will come and town the car to there garage, play them off one another but looks like you going to have to pay someone to get it fixed and it looks like its one of those nice little things when your a car owner

[Taadaa]

I reckon you will find someone to do it for less than £1k, esp if you quote them. I'm sorry for yout troubles!:grouphug:

[hartcjhart]

forgot to say when you phone around for a quote dont mention the Grand price

[Pew Pew Pew Lasers!]

how can i prove negligence - for all i know they revved the balls off it but i don't so??

Your car has an engine limiter. Your engine correctly maintained should be able to sit on that limiter for minutes at a time.

If the belt is original you've had it.

[anewman]

Although I personally would not like to see an engine taken to the rev limiter while not under load.

[amcluesent]

Another crazy scam to fleece to motorist. WHY is there a need to rev the b*llocks off the engine to 'test' it? I'm sure the engine ECU disgnostic would produce more than enough info about the state of the engine. But of course, thinking is never a big feature of the numpties in the public sector who dream up these daft schemes.

[jeannieblue]

You are allowed to sit and watch your car being MOT tested. It may be a good idea for some to do this at least once to understand exactly what checks and tests your vehicle has to undergo to make sure it is roadworthy.

Its old hat for me now, but I used to find it very interesting and informative - makes you feel secure knowing your car has passed. (Unless of course, it doesn't)

My heart goes out to the OP but sh*t happens to us all at some point in life.
Hope she gets a good deal and a reasonably priced repair.

[Wig]

Good thing about having an LPG car is they don't rev the b0llocks off it for the MOT. :)

[Jamp]

If I remember correctly the speed required for the fast idle emissions test is 2500-3500rpm. Hardly excessive, and pretty typical of day-to-day driving, hence it is wholly appropriate for the test.

[vikingaero]

If I remember correctly the speed required for the fast idle emissions test is 2500-3500rpm. Hardly excessive, and pretty typical of day-to-day driving, hence it is wholly appropriate for the test.

Depends if the OP's car is a diesel. With a diesel I believe the test involves revving the engine (whilst properly warmed up) to the rev limiter.

[Wig]

It's only appropriate under load, with no load it's IMO totally inappropriate, and they can do it for quite a long time, especially if they are not getting the emmissions to pass then they will do it again.

And FYI, when I drive my revs don't go as far as 2500 rpm, I generally stay below 2,300.

And diesel tests are worse still.

I think they should only be allowed to do it with the driven wheels on the rolling road, with the car in gear, but no doubt there is some health ansd safety reason why they don't do this, and no one can be bothered to come with a suitable solution to the problem, like for example anchoring the car via the undriven wheels so that it cannot jump off the rolling road.

[goldspanners]

Depends if the OP's car is a diesel. With a diesel I believe the test involves revving the engine (whilst properly warmed up) to the rev limiter.

diesels generally rev lower than petrol engines anyway.generally a petrol car engine will rev to 6000 rpm and a diesel 4500 rpm when in gear and being driven,but most modern diesel cars are restricted when in nuetral and will only do 3000 rpm.
so as it sounds loud and as if it is being revved stupid it isnt really. (these are general terms)
if the car is capable of reving to this on the road then it should be capable of doing it in a test environment.
lucky it happened here and not miles away from home in this weather i say.

[Pew Pew Pew Lasers!]

Although I personally would not like to see an engine taken to the rev limiter while not under load.

Provided the engine is warm and airflow is sufficient it does no harm whatsoever.

[cyclonebri1]

If I remember correctly the speed required for the fast idle emissions test is 2500-3500rpm. Hardly excessive, and pretty typical of day-to-day driving, hence it is wholly appropriate for the test.


Agree even if it was a diesel it probably wouldnt rev past 4500 anyway.

The sad thing is that this could have happened at anytime, this is why all the manuals recomend reducing the mileage to belt change to reduce the possibility of this mishap, and also why garages post the disclaimer as previously mentioned.

I've fixed a fair few cars when this has happened and I'd probably mention a couple of things here;

In my experience most of these failures have happened on start up rather than under heavy load or high revs, so it is unfair to jump to conclusions.

It could be more economical to buy a 2nd hand engine as the damage is not a finite issue, you start work and the damage can either be minimal or start to build. Needs the head whipping off for a check first IMHO.
Best of luck,:money: it's unfortunate for you, but the only good thing is here is that this may serve as a warning to others to check the maintenance of cam belts carefully.

[movilogo]

this may serve as a warning to others to check the maintenance of cam belts carefully.

While I fully agree with this, but one can't deny the fact that cambelt snapped while the car was with the garage!
They have asked later when the cambelt was last changed. But if they were true professional, they should have asked the question
BEFORE the test and mentioned this to OP that this situation might happen!

It is not rare that something has broken on cars while in a garage (either intentional/negligence or accidental damage). If this happens, the garage should provide the compensation. What if the OP had lost the receipt of cambelt change? The onus should be on the garage to prove that it wasn't their fault!

[cyclonebri1]

While I fully agree with this, but one can't deny the fact that cambelt snapped while the car was with the garage!
They have asked later when the cambelt was last changed. But if they were true professional, they should have asked the question
BEFORE the test and mentioned this to OP that this situation might happen!

It is not rare that something has broken on cars while in a garage (either intentional/negligence or accidental damage). If this happens, the garage should provide the compensation. What if the OP had lost the receipt of cambelt change? The onus should be on the garage to prove that it wasn't their fault!

I understand what you saying but don't fully understand the legalities of the situation so won't comment further on that aspect, but probably a disclaimer signed before the test is in order, if only to be an active jolt to the maintenance memory?

On the same theme, how else could the MOT guy thats trying to pass your cars handbrake, but by using maybe a bit more force than an 8 stone female can apply, snaps the already rusted and faultering cable. I know this if different but I personnally want them to find any problems that I'm unaware of on my cars. All I'm saying is that probably garages do need some protection as they do have to test some components further than some owners do. Not that this has anything to do with the original posters engine blow up IMHO. Can't believe I'm sticking up for a garage:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[jeannieblue]

While I fully agree with this, but one can't deny the fact that cambelt snapped while the car was with the garage!
They have asked later when the cambelt was last changed. But if they were true professional, they should have asked the question
BEFORE the test and mentioned this to OP that this situation might happen!

It is not rare that something has broken on cars while in a garage (either intentional/negligence or accidental damage). If this happens, the garage should provide the compensation. What if the OP had lost the receipt of cambelt change? The onus should be on the garage to prove that it wasn't their fault!

No, the onus should be on the garage that replaced the cam belt - even if the receipt was lost, they should still have records, and take it up with them - can't blame the MOT station for this, people must be responsible for seeing that their cars are regularly serviced and maintained - especially before it goes for an MOT test!:rotfl:

[mrsyorkie]

Hope you get it sorted out. I must say that 1000 pounds for a Cam Belt is a bit extortionate. Ring round some garages and see what they can do it for - you'll probably find one who'll do it for a couple of hundred quid. Ring your friends/family and see if there is anyone who can tow you to a cheaper garage or home again.

[cyclonebri1]

Hope you get it sorted out. I must say that 1000 pounds for a Cam Belt is a bit extortionate. Ring round some garages and see what they can do it for - you'll probably find one who'll do it for a couple of hundred quid. Ring your friends/family and see if there is anyone who can tow you to a cheaper garage or home again.


But it's not the cost of a cam belt change, it's the cost of damage to the engine caused by the cam belt breaking, now that could easily top 1K:confused:

Of course this is not yet confirmed hence my comments earlier about the top having to come off to determine the extent of the damage

[mrsyorkie]

True, I forgot about that!

I'd still call different garages though and try to get it cheaper if I could.

[Rob50k]

Been in the motoring game for a too many years and I have seen this happen on MOT before more than once, It is fair to say that as a matter of course i would always ask a customer presenting either an old or over 50K car if they have had their cambelt done due to the stesses of the Deisel fast pass Mot test were a Mot pass is only acheived by reving the vehicle to its guvnor.

If you find out that the belt has been replaced and it is a decent belt manufacturer, you may have a parts warranty claim that they will accept, this is more likley if Genuine parts have been used, Also worth noting that many vehicles have a idler/tensioner wheel which can often be the casue of belt failure rather than the belt just breaking.

Even being in the game I have fallen foul to this and despite belt change i forgot to order the tensioner, though it won't matter and 6 months later on Xmas morning i was towing it home and ended up replacing the head assembly £600. all for a £30 part if forgot to order!

Shop arround for quotes, then you can guage if £1k is too expensive.

[jeannieblue]

We always order in cam belt kits - unless the customer says no, we change it all whilst 'in there'. Quite often on second cam belt change - we advise customer it may need water pump too.

[hartcjhart]

JeannieB
yep I always advise about water pump,but the ammount of people that say no coz of the extra small cost amazes me,

but I chuckle when I hear that a while down the line it has packed up:rotfl: :rotfl:

[movilogo]

he onus should be on the garage that replaced the cam belt

Cam belts on Renault engines are quite notorious as they snap quite often (even after recommended change) Just check Parker's or Honest John's discussion forum on that.

Peugeot and Alfa Rome also suffer frequent cambelt failures!

To be on safe side:
1. Change cambelt always at relevant intervals
2. Avoid buying cars which uses cambelt in an interference engine (cambelt failure in non-interference engine won't cause any damage)
3. Buy a car with chain cam driven engines (old Nissans, most BMWs, most Suzukis etc. etc.)
:)

[anewman]

but I chuckle when I hear that a while down the line it has packed up:rotfl: :rotfl:

Thing that amazes me is it seems like those things are designed to fail. My car has a chain, 14 years and 111k miles, and never had a problem with the water pump that I know of :confused:

[jeannieblue]

JeannieB
yep I always advise about water pump,but the ammount of people that say no coz of the extra small cost amazes me,

but I chuckle when I hear that a while down the line it has packed up:rotfl: :rotfl:


I know............ specially if its a pain - like an Audi with engine so far forward, that the labour time to do it is so long! Luckily, most of our customers have been with us a long time and children and granchildren start coming to us over the years - then recommendations etc., that they trust the guys and go with their advice.

But there are some - and I've been ripped off in the past - that think they know best. Shame really but understandable.

There are honest garages out there!!!!

[goldspanners]

Thing that amazes me is it seems like those things are designed to fail. My car has a chain, 14 years and 111k miles, and never had a problem with the water pump that I know of :confused:

its a water pump,it will fail eventually,the water/coolant will eventually rot the pump, impeller or housing away,if it doesnt then the gasket will fail and leak.if you dont change this when you are doing a cam belt,then when the pump does eventually fail it becomes a very expensive pump.

[neversaynever]

well guys some more useful comments than others for me to chew on. Thanks Taadaa, the only one to send me flowers - i need some tlc right now! ok guys ye of course it would have been wise to make sure the cambelt had been changed at 60k IF I KNEW IT NEEDED IT!?!? Give me a break here. Rang VOSA's national enquiry service centre today, they said as the cambelt is not an 'mot'able item it isn't something they get involved in. The guy at the garage is towing my car back tonight, gonna put it on the drive for me. Using my son's car for now, least i can get to work.

[tomstickland]

if they were true professional, they should have asked the question
BEFORE the test and mentioned this to OP that this situation might happen!

It is not rare that something has broken on cars while in a garage (either intentional/negligence or accidental damage). If this happens, the garage should provide the compensation. What if the OP had lost the receipt of cambelt change? The onus should be on the garage to prove that it wasn't their fault!
The garage were tasked with testing the car, not asking 100 questions about what had and had not been done to it.
Cam belts do snap, and the OP has learnt the hard way what happens.
I'd advocate simply swapping in another engine, should be possible to do that for a few £100.

Regarding rev limits, I take my engine to the limiter every day and wouldn't expect it to blow up if I sat on the driveway on the limiter for a few minutes.

[goldspanners]

well guys some more useful comments than others for me to chew on. Thanks Taadaa, the only one to send me flowers - i need some tlc right now! ok guys ye of course it would have been wise to make sure the cambelt had been changed at 60k IF I KNEW IT NEEDED IT!?!? Give me a break here. Rang VOSA's national enquiry service centre today, they said as the cambelt is not an 'mot'able item it isn't something they get involved in. The guy at the garage is towing my car back tonight, gonna put it on the drive for me. Using my son's car for now, least i can get to work.

when you buy something new to you,wether it be a car,a phone or a computer,you should read the instruction manual. then you will know things like this.
its not the MOT centres job to maintain your car,you wanted it MOTing,nothing else,they were only checking to see if it was in roadworthy condition.

[hartcjhart]

NevayNev

no go sit on the naughty step and dont do it again:D

[anewman]

Unfortunately I think this is an all too common occurrence. As for reading the manuals I think sometimes manuals don't get passed across unfortunately, but obviously it's a good idea to try source manuals if you don't have them in your posession.

The cam belt thing is understandable, but I wonder how many people buy a car, and don't realise you have to get oil changed etc and never get it serviced but meet all legal requirements for MOT, tax and insurance, then wonder why their car breaks down 2 years or so later.

[badmumof1]

sorry but i dont see how this is the fault of the MOT tester
you said ^^^ that you bought the car at 72k miles and its now done 79k miles so you have done 6k miles. You also said you was unsure of when it was done when you bought it so you really should have had it done within a few hundred of getting it.
I bought a car 2 years ago that had done 25k but i changed then cambelt within weeks of buying it the car was 5 years old as i was aware the problems that a worn belt can cause.

Garages do not rev the car for the emmissions, all they need is a car thats been ticking over for a bit so the engin eis warm and the airflow is even.

[Wig]

Garages do not rev the car for the emmissions, all they need is a car thats been ticking over for a bit so the engin eis warm and the airflow is even.

The first part I agree with, but this part I quoted.... ??? When was the last time you supervised an MOT? I suggest next time you go you pay attention to the emmissions test. The only time they don't over rev the cars is if it is a pre 1991 car with no catylitic converter. or an LPG car.

[jeannieblue]

sorry but i dont see how this is the fault of the MOT tester
you said ^^^ that you bought the car at 72k miles and its now done 79k miles so you have done 6k miles. You also said you was unsure of when it was done when you bought it so you really should have had it done within a few hundred of getting it.
I bought a car 2 years ago that had done 25k but i changed then cambelt within weeks of buying it the car was 5 years old as i was aware the problems that a worn belt can cause.

(Garages do not rev the car for the emmissions, all they need is a car thats been ticking over for a bit so the engin eis warm and the airflow is even.)

Recommend you sit in on an MOT and then you'll see for yourself.

[cyclonebri1]

I know............ specially if its a pain - like an Audi with engine so far forward, that the labour time to do it is so long! Luckily, most of our customers have been with us a long time and children and granchildren start coming to us over the years - then recommendations etc., that they trust the guys and go with their advice.

But there are some - and I've been ripped off in the past - that think they know best. Shame really but understandable.

There are honest garages out there!!!!

There are jeannie, I know of just the one, unfortunately they are in the minority. And you no the sad thing, in general its the big boys, the dealers that the uninformed asume are experts, that are responsible for this. I have yet to take a caqr to a garage for work in over 40 years of my own and family motoring. The3 only time is for an MOT or insurance work. Give me the small local friendly family run garage everytime:T

Quoting mr wig;
The only time they don't over rev the cars is if it is a pre 1991 car with no catylitic converter. or an LPG car.

To be fair they don't over rev the car, but they do have to use something like 3/4 max revs which does sound like a good thrashing when you are stood next to it,:rotfl:

[badmumof1]

WIG and Jeannieblue so you both reccomed i sit in when i next see a MOT being done
I used to work in a garage that serviced cars and done MOT's

One of my best mates is a MOT tester and has never reved a car up infact i had mine MOT'd just last month and sat through that one whilst chatting to my mate ( he didnt do my car but his buddy did, just incase you are wondering if i had a false MOT)

[anewman]

One of my best mates is a MOT tester and has never reved a car up

They do rev them a little, not like boy racer revving though, they keep the engine in what they call a "fast idle". My MOT tester gives me the printout from the gas analyzer computer and that states how fast my car was revved and all the relevant measurements.

[goldspanners]

WIG and Jeannieblue so you both reccomed i sit in when i next see a MOT being done
I used to work in a garage that serviced cars and done MOT's

One of my best mates is a MOT tester and has never reved a car up infact i had mine MOT'd just last month and sat through that one whilst chatting to my mate ( he didnt do my car but his buddy did, just incase you are wondering if i had a false MOT)

well maybe your best mate is passing cars without doing emission tests?
i doubt it though.

[Wig]

My car test result from the last one I had says 2600 rpm, that is over revving in my book. and the testers manual says all vehicles not subject to the non-catylist test are to be reved to 2500 - 3000rpm which as I say is over revving in my book.

Are you saying they didn't do this for your car? Is your car 1991 or earlier, or fitted with an engine of that age?

[blue_haddock]

To be on safe side:
1. Change cambelt always at relevant intervals
2. Avoid buying cars which uses cambelt in an interference engine (cambelt failure in non-interference engine won't cause any damage)
3. Buy a car with chain cam driven engines (old Nissans, most BMWs, most Suzukis etc. etc.)
:)

What a load of tosh!

Providing a cambelt is changed along with the required tensioners at sensible intervals you should have no more problems than with a chain cam engine. And speaking of which they are not exactly fool proof - just ask the great number of micra and almera owners who have had engine problems relating to the cam-chain.

As to the OP i don't think the garage are to blame in anyway. If your vehicle hasn't been serviced to a suitable standard it is your fault not theirs.

[jeannieblue]

There are jeannie, I know of just the one, unfortunately they are in the minority. And you no the sad thing, in general its the big boys, the dealers that the uninformed asume are experts, that are responsible for this. I have yet to take a caqr to a garage for work in over 40 years of my own and family motoring. The3 only time is for an MOT or insurance work. Give me the small local friendly family run garage everytime:T

Quoting mr wig;
The only time they don't over rev the cars is if it is a pre 1991 car with no catylitic converter. or an LPG car.

To be fair they don't over rev the car, but they do have to use something like 3/4 max revs which does sound like a good thrashing when you are stood next to it,:rotfl:

I work for one of those local friendly garages - although based in the South East we get cars come to us from all over the Uk - due to the fact that we also specialise in certain types of vehicles as well as all types.

And we quite often get called upon to 'rescue' cars from main dealers - which is also a pleasure.

[jeannieblue]

WIG and Jeannieblue so you both reccomed i sit in when i next see a MOT being done
I used to work in a garage that serviced cars and done MOT's

One of my best mates is a MOT tester and has never reved a car up infact i had mine MOT'd just last month and sat through that one whilst chatting to my mate ( he didnt do my car but his buddy did, just incase you are wondering if i had a false MOT)

Recommend less chatting and more observing ....... :D

[cyclonebri1]

My car test result from the last one I had says 2600 rpm, that is over revving in my book. and the testers manual says all vehicles not subject to the non-catylist test are to be reved to 2500 - 3000rpm which as I say is over revving in my book.

Are you saying they didn't do this for your car? Is your car 1991 or earlier, or fitted with an engine of that age?Sorry mr Wig cant agree there. 2600rpm probably equates to 50-60 mph in top gear and under mot conditions is very low load. To put things in context your average modern engine will rev to 6500-7500 regularly with no problems. If you have a diesel it's probably a bit more in terms of speed, but probably less than most do on the way to the test:confused:

In general terms you cannot "over rev" a modern engine, rev limiters and such like take car of that, plus mot testers don't like pools of crud on the garage deck;)

[hartcjhart]

NOW, listen up peeps,when you put a car on the gas analyser you have to rev it to certain ammounts that are governed by the computer,IF it is a newish car then it may only need to be revved to a low limit,

IF it is a slightly older car it MAY need to be revved higher to go through(nothing illegal there)

Getting back to the OP it happens and thats it FULL STOP

[movilogo]

Providing a cambelt is changed along with the required tensioners at sensible intervals you should have no more problems than with a chain cam engine.In some cars, changing cam belts can cost up to £500. Also, chain can also fail - but usually it gives plenty of warning before so!

Manufacturers use belts because it saves costs for them. Again they get some money if you to go to main dealers for changing the belt :)

Most people, when buy car, don't even bother whether they have belt or chain. They only realize when dealer charges ££s for changing belt during services or in the hard way (ie. when belt snaps requiring an engine re-build).

I've no problem in buying a cam belt engined car - but it has to be a non-interference once.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timing_belt

[harz99]

The test centres now display clear warnings about the test and what can happen with a car that's not been serviced properly.
Which unfortunately would not have been seen by the OP as they did not take the car to the test station personally.

Personally, using what I reckon are sensible precautions, for a cam belted engine at nearly ten years old the car should have been on its' second belt and at that mileage approaching another new one.

Tough luck, I am afraid.

[tomstickland]

the last one I had says 2600 rpm, that is over revving in my book
2600rpm is not over revving. An engine will have a safe rpm limit of around 6500rpm for a petrol and somewhere around 4500rpm for a Diesel. You can sit on the limiter for 10 minutes without trouble. Generally the coolant will just heat up if the vehicle is not moving.