Police Sirens - What to do where you hear it?

[wazza]

As it states in the highway code when you hear sirens from an emergency vehicle behind you you are supposed to pull over safely to one side to let it through. What happens if :-

1. you are at traffic lights which are showing red? Are you allowed to cross the stop line?

2. If you are in a lane next to a 24 hour bus lane are you allowed to pull over into the bus lane?

Have read stories where someone was fined crossing a traffic light when it was showing red and also someone was fined pulling into the bus lane etc

Has an emergency vehicle with flashing sirens allow you to break the law to get out of the way?

What happens if you don't give way in fear of breaking a law?

Thanks in advance for any replies

[TheOne]

I remember once I was at some traffic lights, and there was police car coming from behind. I was in the right hand lane to turn right, and there was a queue in the left lane to turn left. (At this particular junction the left lane get a green filter arrow first, but the lights were red at the time) The police car came up behind me, so I had to move. As I had to go through a red to get out of his way, it seemed safer for me to go left, so I looked and went left (Happened to be the wrong way a bit for me, but wasnt too far out of my way). That's that really

[ManAtHome]

Generally get out of the way as long as it's safe - you need to size up what's going to be the easiest route for the emergency vehicle, not unreasonable to go though red lights, into bus lanes etc if the rest of the traffic has stopped. I usually take the view that I'd argue about it later - haven't heard of any fines for getting out of the way, do you have any links..?

[mrbadexample]

pull over safely to one side

I don't know, but I think the key point is above - safely. I've been at red traffic lights when Trumpton have come steaming up behind me with all the lights and sirens going. I just pulled forward, and moved to the side. I didn't pull so far forward as to be in the path of the traffic with the green light. As for the bus lane, yep, I'd use it.

It would be pretty harsh to get nicked for that. :confused:

[arnie&caseysma!]

As it states in the highway code when you hear sirens from an emergency vehicle behind you you are supposed to pull over safely to one side to let it through. What happens if :-

1. you are at traffic lights which are showing red? Are you allowed to cross the stop line? Haven't heard of anyone being prosecuted for this, you would only be going a very short distance to allow you to pull to the side for the emergency vehicle to get through, though I would be more concerned about being aware of vehicles crossing your path whilst stopped at lights.

2. If you are in a lane next to a 24 hour bus lane are you allowed to pull over into the bus lane? If the bus lane is empty I would think that the emergency vehicle would use it rather than causing anyone to pull into it, but in the case of receiving tickets for it you would have reasonable cause to appeal and have them check the cameras/make enquiries as the emergency vehicle would undoubtedly be seen on the camera

Have read stories where someone was fined crossing a traffic light when it was showing red and also someone was fined pulling into the bus lane etc

Has an emergency vehicle with flashing sirens allow you to break the law to get out of the way?

What happens if you don't give way in fear of breaking a law?

Thanks in advance for any replies

Not heard of anyone being prosecuted for the above, I think the common sense approach is appropriate in all cases.

[Crabman]

There have been cases where people were fined £60 + 3 points for crossing a red light even when an emergency vehicle was behind them - it seems the only time you can do so is when directed by a police officer - otherwise all traffic signs must be complied with:

Highway Code - 219http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069858Emergency and Incident Support vehicles. You should look and listen for ambulances, fire engines, police, doctors or other emergency vehicles using flashing blue, red or green lights and sirens or flashing headlights, or Highways Agency Traffic Officer and Incident Support vehicles using flashing amber lights. When one approaches do not panic. Consider the route of such a vehicle and take appropriate action to let it pass, while complying with all traffic signs. If necessary, pull to the side of the road and stop, but try to avoid stopping before the brow of a hill, a bend or narrow section of road. Do not endanger yourself, other road users or pedestrians and avoid mounting the kerb. Do not brake harshly on approach to a junction or roundabout, as a following vehicle may not have the same view as you.

[Markyt]

A friend of mine was done, even after appeal, when he crossed a stop line at traffic lights to let a fire engine through. The houses can burn next time.

[vikingaero]

There have been cases where people were fined £60 + 3 points for crossing a red light even when an emergency vehicle was behind them - it seems the only time you can do so is when directed by a police officer - otherwise all traffic signs must be complied with:


Surely a Police car behind you with blues and twos and sirens is a Police Officer giving you directions?! Although there was that chap who got a fine for it.

I'll move over if it is safe to do so. That Police Car/Ambulance/Fire Engine could be going to your house, your childrens house or your parents house.

[suffolkb]

I was at the lights once on my motorbike when a police car with flashing lights pulled up behind me. There was a cop standing at the lights looking at me. When the police in the car put their siren on, I went through the red light. I would have been really annoyed if the other cop had then done me, but nothing happened. This was before they had cameras pointed at the lights. I might do differently now.

[Jorgan]

If there was a bus lane, personally I'd leave it clear for the emergency services to use. If you find yourself in the scenario where you have to go thru a red light to a path for an emergency services vehicle, I would try and get the registration number of the vehicle, so at least you have a point of reference should you get a ticket.

[N9eav]

Having been in the other seat so to speak, there is a sticker in the vehicle which tells you that the "use of sirens and light does not give you right of way over other vehicles".
However when responding to incidents you do want to get there as soon as possible.

e.g If you have been involved in a road trafic accident it seems like hours before the emergency services get to you. As far as you are concerned they can't get there soon enough!

Just be sensible and try to move to one side safely or slow down. Do not panic and force yourself off the road! The driver of the Emergency service vehicle will find a way through any gap.

But be SMART!!!! The worst thing is people who stop on the brow of a hill for you, or on a bend, Or next to a traffic island. The very worst are the old people who don't see you or hear you and trundle along in the middle of the road at 30mph totally oblivious to your presence!!!

Just think where can I create a space for the vehicle to get through. Oh and don't forget to look as often cars or trucks come in pairs...

[Markyt]

If there was a bus lane, personally I'd leave it clear for the emergency services to use. If you find yourself in the scenario where you have to go thru a red light to a path for an emergency services vehicle, I would try and get the registration number of the vehicle, so at least you have a point of reference should you get a ticket.

Waste of time. In my mates case, they had a photo of the fire engine going through with the same timestamp as the picture of him. Still had to pay the fine.

[exel1966]

The problems arise when cameras come into play as they do not show the full 'picture'.

It only shows that an offence was comitted. FULLSTOP. There have been numerous press/media articles over the years relating to this and shamefully common sense has not prevailed when those unfortunate enough to be snapped have appealed.

This is one of those many occasions when the law is proven to be an !!! as it clearly states in black and white that you should 'comply with all traffic signs' in circumstances of this nature.

You can't win ! If you stayed put whilst a police vehicle was trying to get through would you charged with obstructing a police officer in his duty ? Very extreme, but it COULD happen.

[nej]

The thing to remember is that the emergency vehicle drivers are highly trained in driving through traffic. It is their job to find a way, not your job to make it.

If I was at a red light without a camera, I'd move through it to let an emergency vehicle pass. If there was a camera, then I wouldn't. As much as I want to help, I don't want a fine and points on my license (leading to higher insurance costs) for my trouble.

The real problem is the system that will punish you for helping out.

[seftonsun]

You must not break the law - period. Emergency vehicles have limited exemption to do so when responding to a bone fide emergency, but then only when safe to do so.

As indicated above, the emergency vehicle drivers' are trained (supposedly?) to navigate through traffic when attending an emergency call. If you break the law you are guilty. Yes the law may be an !!!, but the Judge or Magistrate is only there to enforce what Parliament have set down. In some instances they have to interpret the law and there is some discretion. But going through a red light or in to an operational bus lane is an absolute offence and they will have no discretion but to find you guilty. Your only option is that they will take mitigation in to account.

Always pull over and indicate your intention if safe and appropriate to do so. Otherwise let the trained and experienced professional make the decision on how to proceed, not you.

[Jem8472]

the people that I really hate are the drivers that just stopped when they hear or see an emergency vheicle.

It really bugs me where there is no reason to stop and people do.

[Poppycat]

I had this a few weeks ago on a evening two lanes at lights with cars. The lane I was in no one behind accept emergency vehicle I pulled forward through redlight and let him pass, I didnt obstruct other traffic though

Last night I came across temporarily lights one lane only so both sides has to use that one side of road. I saw ambulance when I was half way through ahead as soon as I got through I pulled up they were in a long queue about 8 cars back. so they that could go through

[movilogo]

The OP has posted the question here as well :)

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=59294

[watcherman]

1. you are at traffic lights which are showing red? Are you allowed to cross the stop line?

No

2. If you are in a lane next to a 24 hour bus lane are you allowed to pull over into the bus lane?

No.


Has an emergency vehicle with flashing sirens allow you to break the law to get out of the way?

No


What happens if you don't give way in fear of breaking a law?



Unless they could prove you had been deliberately obstructive, nothing.

As others have said, consider where to stop, a well driven police car will not just land on your rear bumper, it will approach at a speed that gives you plenty of time to see/hear it, so you have time to react and plan where to stop.

If you have absolutely nowhere to go, ie along a long section of solid white lines on a blind bend, keep going, maybe stick the indicator on to the left to show you have seen them, but keep going and pull in at the first safe opportunity.

The police are the one's with exemptions, not you, so do what you can, but don't compromise your safety or licence.

[anewman]

Police Sirens - What to do where you hear it?

Turn the switch off and quit pretending to be the police to get through traffic :)

On a serious note, I have had the police direct me to go through a red light as there had been an accident at the junction and the police were controlling the traffic flow. So surely if it's as strict as the red lights mean not to go, and ignore anyone else, then something's wrong somewhere.

[movilogo]

See here
http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/mostpopular.var.1700710.mostviewed.motorist_fined_ for_red_light_good_deed.php

Someone is £370 out of pocket for going thru red light to allow an emergency vehicle.

The law is illegal :(

[anewman]

See here
http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/mostpopular.var.1700710.mostviewed.motorist_fined_ for_red_light_good_deed.php

Someone is £370 out of pocket for going thru red light to allow an emergency vehicle.

The law is illegal :(

Suppose that's it then. Don't move for emergency vehicles is the best policy if you have to go through a red light. Suppose then you'd be fined for obstructing the police?

[shaileytuff]

I always get confused at this one but hubby (as pc himself) gave me a great tip, just indicate so the police or emergency vehicle knows what you are going to do, this then allows them to choose the safest route for them to take no point just stopping or pulling over if you don't make it clear - hope that makes sense

[tomstickland]

Many times I've pulled over, let whatever it is past, and they then get stuck behind someone oblivious to the flashing lights and noise. Makes me wonder how out of it some people are.

[davetrousers]

2. If you are in a lane next to a 24 hour bus lane are you allowed to pull over into the bus lane?


Surely the emergency vehicle would use the bus lane.

[C_Ronaldo]

You move over to the side if you can, ive had to move over the crossing point at some lights so the police car could get by

[watcherman]

See here
http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/mostpopular.var.1700710.mostviewed.motorist_fined_ for_red_light_good_deed.php

Someone is £370 out of pocket for going thru red light to allow an emergency vehicle.

The law is illegal :(

He went through after the Police van had been through, and at 16mph. I think the story has two sides and has been reported for its sensational value, rather than factual.

[Badger_Lady]

I commute every day down a busy main road that houses the local ambulance, fire and police stations, so this is a very regular occurance.

There is a traffic-light controlled crossroad in front of the police station, with two lanes which are both queued up with traffic waiting for the lights to change.

An emergency vehicle blasts its siren from the back of the queue... everyone in the left lane moves forward and left (with a couple of wheels on the grass embankment), and everyone in the right hand lane does the same, creating a path through the middle.

The two people at the front of the lanes (and I've been one of them) cross the stop line by about 4 feet in order to make room for this. (still in front of the crossroad, so no blocking of paths takes place).

The emergency vehicle gets through quickly and everyone seems happy...

This thread has really enlightened me to the personal dangers of carrying out such a manoevre... but it's much more dangerous to the general public for individuals to be too scared to make room (in a safe and sensible way)!

[**woody123**]

o.k, so how about if there is an emergency vehicle approaching with sirens flashing the opposite side of the road coming towards you trying to overtake cars on that side, what do you do? luckily for me yesterday the pavement was low so i could just indicate and mount the curb a little to allow the emergency vehicle to use my side of the road to overtake... I did have the know it all that he was trying to overtake papping his horn several times for me to do this even though the emergency hadn't reached him yet..

[redux]

I think someone who drove right out into the whole junction would be a mug.
I've once pulled across the stop line, from the left lane, about a car length and half on to the pavement so they could s around me.

Last time, I saw the police about 300 yards back as the lights just changed to red and I stopped on the cross-hatching in the middle, just before the centre island.

The main point is, don't panic. I was nearly knocked over on a pavement as some idiot drove up on to it with a police car behind him, and held them up as there was not actually enough gap for them to overtake him anyway, when he could have just gone past the green light 10 yards away and stopped in much more space a few yards beyond.

[the_big_fact_hunt]

You can NOT cross a red light, NOR can you use the bus lane, the emergency services do NOT have right of way, however, they are trained to manouver through traffic.
If you can SAFELY get out of the way, do so.
The highway code states that you must obey traffic directions, and directions from Police officers, blue lights and sirens do not constitute directions.
If you see an ERV approaching, try and make it easier for the driver to pass i.e. if you are approaching traffic lights stop early and leave a path through the lights on the correct side of the road for obvious safety reasons etc
I am a highly experienced driver and i will do whatever i see fit for the safety of all road users, whether it means moving further out into the road to block ERVs passing from behind when it is unsafe then allowing a clear path, or pulling onto an island and blocking traffic to make a clear route (i drive a large vehicle which CAN be seen when i do this).
Safe driving means being alert and aware, most new drivers are not taught to read the road ahead as i was, which means i can often tell what you are going to do before you decide it for yourself, its called experience.

[specialK]

I was told by my uncle who was a firefighter, to always obey the law. Any emergency vehicle does not have the rights to the road. It is up to use to use our common and let them pass if we see it safe to do so.

A friend of his was flashing approaching red lights. The 1st car in line crossed the line to let him through, it resulted in a crash. Who got the blame? the driver who 1st crossed the line to let the engine pass, but then so did the fireman, so really it is about keeping the road safe, if you can't judge then just continue to drive safely, there will soon be a safe gap that they can get through, as they are the ones trained to deal with this.

Their sirens and lights are not a god given right to pass traffic. Keep safe at all times.

[anewman]

This advert is currently running on TV http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=J84dm5xRyXk

I think it's wrong they don't make it clear that it's illegal to go through a red light.

[banger9365]

you thing it's hard to move a car out of the way try moving a HGV when there coming down the road and you know if you cannot go they cannot go unless the cars make enough room.
the worse thing that happend to me was near hull,there is a bad right hand long bend ,fire engine coming up behind me ,advertising ,so i slowd down to a stop just about before the corner (min 300yards),it was a very wet night so putting a fully loaded hgv on the verg was a no no, you could see the driver and the one at the side of him wayving me on ,so i put me foot down (if you can call it that)well on a good day you could go round this bend at about 30 to 35mph unleaden put loaded from a almost stop and fully loaded you be lucky to get to 20mph before you get that too fast feeling on the bend,we got round it felt like forever and bless him they raised the hand in thanks has he went passed ,it still do's not stop that sick feeling you when you thing you should have done more to help them.
silly really still get it now thinking about.
do not know why i wote this,it's was just another day at the mill

[wolvoman]

Exact situation happened to me 2 years ago.

Caught on a red-light camera halfway across a junction. I claimed that I had no alternative but to move across to let an ambulance through.

I had the points and fine but my solicitor had the case thrown out within minutes when I took it to appeal. All costs paid for including loss of earnings.

The law did its job - you just need to go through the due process.

[Reggie Rebel]

Get out and all run in different directions

[davejack711]

As a Paramedic, who has been driving for many years on lights and horns, yes we have driving skills passed to us as part of a driving course for emergency services.
We are told, a, never to force people of the road, b, if the road is blocked with volume of traffic to switch of horns as not to get other drivers aggitated and do some thing rash, c, we are also obliged to follow the highway code and is against the law to pass thru lights on red, but we do have permission to treat them as a give way, providing we dont cause other drivers to have an accident.
If there was a bus lane, then we would use this as this would allow us to continue with our journey unpeeded.
Please dont stop opposite other vehicles when stopping as most of time we will not get thru, we are not on bikes and ambulances tend to be wide, also dont stop on brow of hills or bends we can not see around.
Thing to remember as with all driving, is use your mirrors more often listen out and above all, concentrate on what you are doing. this way when we come behind you, it will be no great surprise to you and you can plan ahead what is the safest option for you and us!!
hope this helps

[C_Ronaldo]

The way i understand it is that if theres a police car/fire engine or an ambulance with lights flashing behind me then you hav eto do what you can to move out of the way

[Bob63]

All I can do as an emergency services rider (blood bikes (http://www.freewheelers.org.uk)) is encourage you to read and use the excellent advice issued by the IAM:

Emergency Vehicles

Deciding what to do when you hear an emergency vehicle approaching can be a dilemma. Do you stay where you are and potentially block the progress of an emergency vehicle? Or do you move into a position that may put you or other road users at risk?
Unfortunately, some drivers over-react to emergency service vehicles travelling on “blues and twos” (blue lights and two-tone horns). This is often because they don’t hear or see the emergency vehicle until it’s too close, and then take drastic action to get out of the way.
The IAM (Institute of Advanced Motorists) says that good driving practice will alert you early to emergency vehicles: regular mirror checks (side and rear) for example, and keeping the windows slightly down around town, so you can hear sirens approaching.
Don’t panic and just brake. It’s natural to want to react. But instinctively putting your brakes on immediately in front of an emergency vehicle doesn’t help: it slows the progress of the emergency vehicle and jeopardises other road users.
Think about where you are on the road. You should deal with the problem in the same way that you deal with any other potentially hazardous driving situation. What is the safest option available to you?
Don’t cross red traffic lights or speed to get out of the way. The emergency driver has training and legal exemptions that you don’t have. Bus lanes and box junctions can be problems too, but let them resolve the problem of breaking the rules – not you.
If you are moving it may well be that you can continue at a reasonable pace and the emergency vehicle can follow you out of a pocket of congestion (such as a blocked one way system). In that scenario, attempting to pull over too soon, or slow down, might just cause a needless obstruction and so hamper the progress of the emergency vehicle.
Indicate your intentions clearly Don’t pull in opposite other obstructions, such as centre bollards. If you are thinking about pulling over across an entrance to a school or factory, you may be unwittingly preventing the emergency vehicle reaching its destination. And do think about where you are asking the emergency driver to overtake you – on the brow of a hill or a blind bend can be placing him or her in a very difficult position.
Get out of the way as soon as you can do so in safety.

If everyone followed this guidance then my job and that of the other emergency services would be much easier! As the advice states - we have the legal exemptions, so let us break the law instead of you.