Wrote car off yesterday & Just bought a Grand Vitara

[milkydrink]

.........................

[somethingaboutshopping]

You were in what sounds like a pretty bad accident, of course you are a little nervous!

And you'll get used to the size I'm sure,

lots of love
xxx

[anewman]

If ice really worries you I would recommend getting a new set of wheels and getting a good set of winter tyres. Shove the others in storage somewhere and change all 4 when you may be driving in snow/icy conditions. Some good tyre places will even store a set of tyres professionally for you and change them over on the wheels you have, for a fee of course.

I don't know if AIM covers skidding/wintery conditiongs. Here's Rospa's suggestions http://www.rospa.com/drivertraining/winter/

Good you're not seriously hurt it seems and you have a new car to enjoy now :cool:

Ps: I might have had a go if you got a 4.2l supercharged V8 Land Rover, or a 4.8l BMW X5 ;) :rotfl: Suzuki Vitara is a more sensible choice.

[tomstickland]

Big tyres won't grip ice any better.

[Inactive]

Big tyres won't grip ice any better.

Spot on correct, in fact a 4x4 is more likely to skid on ice than a standard car, not deep snow tho'.

As you have already lost control of one vehicle, I would advise some specialist driver training.

[anewman]

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/front_website/gallery_tyre.php?o=0&id=231972

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/products/210661/winter_tyres.html

Must admit I don't know if they're all that much better, I haven't driven in wintery conditions yet, only driven for one year and done my best to avoid them so far fortunately.

[epninety]

'Snow' tyres seem to be in the press a lot lately - strange since we've all (in the uk) got by for years without them. They typically have lots of fine grooves called sipes which allow the water to escape from the contact patch. They are also made of very soft sticky rubber. Nokian 'hakkapellitas' (SP?) are amazing - even at serious sub zero temperatures if you drag your hand lightly over the tread, it will try to pull your glove off. However, they will be useless unless you fit them only on icy days - they have a very short life on tarmac.

Last Easter I drove through Norway up to the arctic circle, and didn't see any tarmac under the ice for days. I had mud tyres on my Land Rover, which should be useless on ice (though not snow) as they have no sipes at all. After a few days confidence and speed creeps up, even in those conditions. It's amazing to be driving at 50mph on snow and ice and then be overtaken by the locals :rotfl:

Anyway, back on topic - a decent 4x4 day will certainly help your confidence. You won't usually do skid control as such, but you'll come away familiar with the feeling of driving slippery surfaces (which is half the battle), and amazed at what a 4x4 can do if driven properly.

You don't need to use your own vehicle, but it might be tricky to find anyone that uses GVs. Land Rover experience centres will usually have Freelanders available I think, but I'd get a 4x4 mag at the newsagent and try to find an indepedent outfit near you. They would be more able to tailor the day around you.

[Inactive]

Is this actually true does anyone know?

Am I more likely to skid in the car I thought was safer?

Not only are you more likely to skid on ice with your Vitara, it is also more likely to roll over than a standard car.

A Vitara was primarily designed to be driven over very rough terrain, deep mud etc, which it will do admirably, however using it for everyday road is always going to be a compromise.


As I have said before, you would benefit from some specialist driver training, ice never caused a single accident, it is all down to driver ability at the end of the day.

Remember, in parts of Europe, Sweden etc. drivers drive on ice for months of the year without having an accident.

[Markyt]

Is this actually true does anyone know?

Am I more likely to skid in the car I thought was safer?

Yes. the 4x4 is a lot heavier and under braking the 4wd is irrelevant. If it does slide, it will slide a lot further than other cars due to the comparatively higher weight.

[apk1]

I think one of the main problems in this country - in the south at least, is that we have forgotten how to drive in winter, it has been quite a few years since we have had any significant snow/frost, and so we all assume we can carry on driving around country bends at 50mph-we can't. this time of year if the road looks damp, it could be ice, if its not ice then it is likely to be very slippery/greasy.

For most people winter tyres are not needed, most modern tyres as long as they have 3mm of tread or more should be ok for most conditions.

[epninety]

Yes. the 4x4 is a lot heavier and under braking the 4wd is irrelevant. If it does slide, it will slide a lot further than other cars due to the comparatively higher weight.

I dont want to fuel the pro/anti 4x4 debate, but this is vastly over simplifying the real situation. Braking is not the only time when a car can or will skid, and weight is far from the only factor. Take in weight distrubution, tyre size and type, suspension setup and a load of other variables and the situation is far from clear.

Current Suzuki GV 2L 16V. Kerb weight 1580kg.
Ford Mondeo 1373 to 1574kg depending on model.

... so the difference could be a tank of petrol and a bootful of tescos finest. Driver education is surely the real key - compulsory skidpan as part of the driving test always seemed a good idea to me. In Finland, at the start of winter they closed a car park in the centre of town and laid out a cone course for local people to practice on.
Bit radical, but maybe we should encourage drivers to think, instead of driving to a set of rules?

[tomstickland]

It'll never catch on over here. Maybe they could lower the limit to 20mph everywhere (including the motorway). That'll make everything totally safe.

[goldspanners]

It'll never catch on over here. Maybe they could lower the limit to 20mph everywhere (including the motorway). That'll make everything totally safe.

yes and the hospitals could give us incubation boxes lined with bubble wrap that grow with us too!:D

[goldspanners]

your 4x4 has a higher centre of gravity,when it goes into a skid,comes out of the skid,it grips the road, it will then topple over on its side.
no matter what car you have when it skids and you have lost traction it is very hard to gain control over it again.

[Markyt]

your 4x4 has a higher centre of gravity,when it goes into a skid,comes out of the skid,it grips the road, it will then topple over on its side.


Mine has yet to do so, despite a 180 degree spin just after I bought it (at about 40mph, due to a dodgy tyre).

[steve_r123]

I take it that it isn't the brand new 2007 model Vitara is it? I'm not sure that they do the new one in 3-door?

If it's the older version then it only has a 3 star euro ncap safety rating, whereas the aygo/yaris (I'm guessing by you saying its tiny) both score 4 stars....... Bigger, doesnt always mean safer unfortunately:rolleyes:

http://www.euroncap.com/tests/suzuki_grand_vitara_2002/143.aspx

http://www.euroncap.com/tests/citroen_c1_2005/218.aspx (same car as aygo)

[steve_r123]

They do, its a 57. Its 3 days old!! (well it got its plate 3 days ago:D ).

Do you happen to know the ncap for the new ones?

Ahh ok then, thats a bit better at 4 stars then :)

http://www.euroncap.com/tests/suzuki_grand_vitara_2007/287.aspx

[Inactive]

Ahh ok then, thats a bit better at 4 stars then :)

http://www.euroncap.com/tests/suzuki_grand_vitara_2007/287.aspx


Am I missing something here?, that model has 5 doors, we are talking about a 3 door, which will be structurally different.

Oh and because a car has a 57 plate does not mean that it is guaranteed to be the latest model, some dealers have un-registered stock for months, even years in some cases.

Obviously the OP only wants to hear, what he wants to hear on this matter, so no point in adding anything further.:rolleyes:

[deltic]

If you drive sensibly and keep your car well maintained you are no more or less safe in the Vitara than any other car in real terms. Whilst all cars have different driving characteristics, all have been very extensively tested to ensure that they are safe and perform properly in all weather conditions and under normal, and some more extreme, driving conditions.

You were just unlucky when you had your accident. Many of us have had them and you just have to learn from it. Your lesson most likely is to be careful and drive slower on country roads on very cold days, to watch out for bends that could have black ice, and avoid sudden changes in driving pattern i.e. hard acceleration, braking, steering etc.

When driving a 4x4, the main thing to remember is that the handling of it will be a little different to a car and you will get used to that as you drive it. That said, if you changed your car to a different one, it's always the case.

Regarding rollovers, you have to do something very stupid indeed for that to happen and they are nearly always induced by extreme driver error caused by excess speed and extreme changes of direction of the vehicle.

[tomstickland]

I think, on balance, the Vitara vs previous car actually makes very little difference to your situation. The type of road you are driving on and the speeds involved mean that toppling the vehicle is unlikely. You will benefit from 4wd in muddy situations. Your biggest problem is the increased width of the vehicle, so that's the main thing to look out for. As to skidding on ice, you'll just have to put that down to an error of judgement plus a bit of being inhe wrong place at the wrong time that could have occured in any vehicle.

In terms of rebuilding your confidence you need to just get on with driving it. It's a pity that most modern cars have so little feel to them - a car that communicates will let you feel how slippery the road is and adjust the driving accordingly.

I drive to work on B roads and I sometimes have to follow people driving at 25mph becuase it looks like it might be ice when in fact it's all water.

[epninety]

The police woman said that, you should not accelerate faster nor break around a bend, especially a skid.
I don't remember breaking, but I probably did as its an instant reaction.

I'm just relieved no other cars were involved. I'm a bit worried about that now (with a 4x4) that if I were to have a crash I would really hurt someone else. I am a bit of a worry wart:o .


Go and do that 4x4 experience day. One of the best things you'll pick up is that the middle pedal isn't the all-purpose 'save me' button that many tarmac driver seem to think. You'll also lean a vehicle over to a scary angle and be amazed it doesn't fall over. At the very least your confidence in your car and your own ability will get a huge boost.

Alternatively a skid-pan course will give you the directly relevant skills, and make you feel safer on those country lanes.

Slight bias - I trained as an off-road driving instructor years ago, though mostly just for fun.

[Inactive]

He is a she & no thas not the case at all.

I did post looking for positive ways in which to rebuild my shattered confidence, not a load of scare stories. I was interested in courses that could help.
I do 6,000 miles a year, mostly to & from work (7 miles away) & a bit of shopping. I rarely go on motorways, & don't do much main road driving at all. My car rarely ever goes above 50 mph. I'm no mad driver. I'm a 40 year old vey boring (I work in finance) civil servant. I've really had my confidence battered too (& to be honest, I was never hugely confident in the first place) & I'm just looking for postive ideas that may help. I HAVE to drive, I live in a village & I couldn't get to work without a car. I wanted a small 4x4 as my next car, because when you drive down country lanes & tuck well in on the bends I always felt my little wheels were not great for that.


Well, my apologies for assuming that you are male.

I did not publish any " scare stories " yet I note that you have only thanked selected contributors to the thread, my advice was sound, positive and constructive.

You would be well advised to get further driver training, as others have suggested, especially with a 4x4, they do handle differently to a standard car, and you would benefit from that training.

An IAM course will be available in your area, look them up on the web at;

http://www.iam.org.uk/

;)

[LandyAndy]

I drive to work on B roads and I sometimes have to follow people driving at 25mph becuase it looks like it might be ice when in fact it's all water.

And one day it will be.

[LandyAndy]

I know what you mean about thanking the variety of people that have bothered to post & I didn't mean it to seem like that.
But my confidence HAS taken a massive blow & I really don't need one more thing to worry about. I do little mileage & I don't drive fast, so I'm not likely to be running it to extreme situations.

I lie in bed at night, reliving those last 10 seconds over & over.
I'm no speed freak & I didn't want a 4x4 to feel like a "big boy" on the road.
I just wanted nice big tyres, as my little ones used to end up in the edge of the tarmac where it meets the mud while going around country bends & I didn't like that feeling. Also I used to find lights of oncoming cars VERY dazzling at night & the higher driving position lifts you above the main glare a little & helps.

Do you have your eyes tested regularly? I have a cataract in one eye and it makes oncoming lights much more dazzling.

[toasterman]

Can I just mention that I lost control of my car a couple of years back driving through part of Wales in similar cold conditions. It went from icy/snowy (me driving slowly) to a bit where it looked like it had all melted and/or been cleared. I wouldn't say I put my foot down - I was still driving way below the limit.

On one straight (but quite narrow) road with houses one side and an ice-cold lake the other, I steered round the only car parked on the left (there was plentiful free local parking off the road on the right) and it started to slide. Before I had chance to do much, I smacked right into the parked car. It was unoccupied, but the owner was in one of the houses to the left, heard, and came down and had a go at me for hitting his car.

I moved my car out of the middle of the road, exchanged details, and while the owner of the other car was swearing at me and suggesting I must have been driving "at least 70mph", a Range Rover coming down the same road as I'd just done, started to skid. It stopped about 40cm clear of hitting the same car I'd just written off.

The car I was driving when I crashed was an Astra estate. it was a company leased car, that had every service on time, all tyres checked regularly, etc. I was working for a company at the time that were very picky about lateness and what I really should have done is not let them pressure me that day, tell them where to go, and got there when I got there - intact and car unharmed. It's easier to say in hindsight.

I'd put my incident down to driving too fast and being inexperienced.

[deltic]

If you still feel a little nervous, give a local driving instructor a call and explain your situation. They may be able to offer an informal lesson or two just to give you a small amount of guidance and a large amount of reassurance. Driving Instructors are happy to do lessons for qualified drivers.

This would be better than a 4x4 course as this focuses on driving off road which it sounds like you are unlikely to do.

But above all, don't worry and enjoy your new car - it's a great choice !

[toasterman]

A man got me out of my car & as he was helping me another car stopped, the driver of the second car stopped her car a little further on from where mine was & ran back.
As she was telling the first man (who helped me out) where we were as he was calling 999 services, another car skidded on the road & verly nearly slid into her car.

My car had all the tyres & checked & balanced & inflated properly in the garage last month. I had the two worst (but they were still legal) taken off & two new ones put on.
There you go. Another motorist had nearly done the exact same thing as you, in the very same spot!
If nothing else, you can feel slightly better its not just you (I worry that when something happens to me, sometimes). It's always nice to see you're not the first or last - at such close hand. I know I always feel better knowing even very experienced drivers aren't brilliant all the time.

Someone told me just after I did it (not that it made me feel any better at the time) - "thats why you pay insurance in the first place".
They were right really. Nobody was seriously injured - and it takes a while to build your confidence back up, but it does come back up.
That said, after my car was repaired from the accident below, I was always very nervous about driving it. Was much better when I got rid of it and got something different. I think the change of vehicle might help you.

[epninety]

If you still feel a little nervous, give a local driving instructor a call and explain your situation. They may be able to offer an informal lesson or two just to give you a small amount of guidance and a large amount of reassurance. Driving Instructors are happy to do lessons for qualified drivers.

This would be better than a 4x4 course as this focuses on driving off road which it sounds like you are unlikely to do.


Also a very good idea. What a 'normal' instructor can't do though, is help to eliminate the 'panic' response to feeling a car going out of control. That really only comes from familiarity. A skidpan course, or a good off-road driving course, will go some way to doing that.

I suspect that in kimevans case, a skidpan course would be the best thing, as it will give her the confidence that she can handle the situation that worries her the most.

People buy 4x4s for many reasons, but often they are sold on the 'go anywhere' image. In my experience, new owners are frequently afraid of even putting one wheel off tarmac, or convinced they are invincible because of the 4x4 badge. Even a half days training often leaves people amazed (a) what their vehicle *is* capable of, if used properly, and (b) how easily they can get stuck or damage the vehicle, if not.

[gilbert and sullivan]

Kimevans, don't dismiss this winter tyre thing as some have tried to say they are of no use.

Winter tyres are constructed with a much higher silica content in the tread compound, this for some scientific reason makes them much more sticky on the road below 7 degrees when normal tyres run out of grip.

For some years now we have obtained a set of used wheels (alloys or steel, but if you want to do the same get the wheel nuts with them, they will normally be different to yours), and have bought a set of good quality (vredestein/nokian/ many others but please not Chinese junk) winter tyres for use from say late November till March approx depending on weather.
Our road use is similar to yours, some town, but mainly rural or main roads that will have some nice slippery salt and some nice slippery icy patches.

We use Vredestein wintrac extreme and i would recommend these without reservation.

Believe me you will be amazed at the difference in grip you will feel.

We have winter tyres on the Hilux now and georgeous wife has complete confidence in the handling whereas the normal tyres had that light unsure feeling in the cold and damp, and was inclined to be 'tail happy', not anymore.

Loads of people will tell you this is baloney, but you are the one on the country roads, and the chances are they are townies anyway.

This may sound like a lot of expense but remember whilst youre on the winter tyres the others are not in use, plus you can save your nice alloys from all the corrosive salt.

If your looking for good winter tyres try www.camskill.co.uk (http://www.camskill.co.uk)
There are other sites as well.

All the best to you, i think you have bought a nice vehicle when your more used to it i would be surprised if you return to a car again.