Stand to loose job for using mobile phone in car

[wendfd]

My son in law, who has been driving for 18 months got pulled over yesterday for using his mobile phone. His bluetooth battery had run out and he was in the middle of an important call. (To the Police about a crime incident as it happens). As he already has 3 points for a speeding offence - 6 points will mean he will loose his licence AND job as driving is the main part of his job. No driving licence will mean a lot of alternate jobs are out of the question. He has a family to support. He is going to appeal against it but does anybody have any advice for him.

[TheImportanceOfBeingIdle]

Yes. Accept that he was in the wrong. Irrelevant of who he was on the phone to, he broke the law. If it was that important then he could have pulled over and rang them. There is no excuse for ignorance.

[Debt_Free_Chick]

My son in law, who has been driving for 18 months got pulled over yesterday for using his mobile phone. His bluetooth battery had run out and he was in the middle of an important call. (To the Police about a crime incident as it happens). As he already has 3 points for a speeding offence - 6 points will mean he will loose his licence AND job as driving is the main part of his job. No driving licence will mean a lot of alternate jobs are out of the question. He has a family to support. He is going to appeal against it but does anybody have any advice for him.

Isn't it three points, not six? :confused:

Had he dialled 999 to report the crime?

[Tomthumb]

I may sound harsh, but I really don't have any sympathy for him, he has only been driving 18 months and has 3 points already - what were these for? It doesn't matter how important the call was, he could have pulled over there really isn't an excuse and he should be punished accordingly. I guess he will have to face the music and hope the judge will be lenient due to his job. Hopefully he will learn to stick to the rules of the road otherwise maybe he should stay off them.

[TheImportanceOfBeingIdle]

Isn't it three points, not six? :confused:

Had he dialled 999 to report the crime?

Six points within the first 2 years = loss of license

[peterbaker]

Don't panic!

If I read you correctly, you are saying that you think 6 points is enough to lose the licence? I hope not because I already have 8 collected with just two speeding offences! I believe it is 12 points that risks a ban.

I do sympathise with the particular case (I have called police from a moving car with no headset also) ... it is a question of priorities ... what is more important:

(a) Reporting a crime as you witness it
(b) Playing by the rules regarding use of mobiles whilst driving

?

I would have thought the police would have used their discretion on this one, but their phone service is so abysmal that people calling them are an easy target as they are kept on the line messing about for so long :mad:

BTW, I do not disagree with the general principle of the law regarding use of mobiles in vehicles as, depending on the intensity of the conversation, it is blissfully easy to get completely distracted which then means your safety and that of all around you depends entirely on your subconscious brain and motor skills or lack of!

Hope I'm right about the points!

Edit: Oh dear I see I am not right for new drivers ... in that case I would suggest employing a barrister to plead mitigation in court, and avoid a ban at the court's discretion.

Tomthumb, as you can see I disagree with your harshness. It is extremely easy to pick up points if you drive for a living. Unless you drive for a living you will (I say this respectfully) not have a clue how easy it is.

[catlover1]

I must say I am shocked at everyones judgemental attitude - whatever happened to being nice to moneysavers :confused: :confused: anyone can make a mistake

Yes he made sa mistake but then I am sure he is aware of it and he does have afamily to support.

He may be lucky as driving is his livlihood ... I certainly hope so and if it was a 999 call he was making at the time that may also be taken into account.

Mt friend was stopped for this about months ago and was offered a choice of going on a driving improvment course instead of points and a fine this may be offered to him instead as his family will suffer if he csannot work.

xx

[Debt_Free_Chick]

Ah, I see .... he will be in the "six points within two years of passing his test" category - ouch!

I have to admit, I am also in the zero-tolerance category when it comes to using a phone whilst driving. I struggle to find a really genuine reason to justify it, rather than pulling over to the side of the road. (Possibly, if you were driving, being pursued aggressively and feared for your life - but that's got to be extremely rare).

I asked if he had made a 999 call for two reasons ....

Firstly, if he had, it would have been exempt - provided he had dialled 999 in response to a genuine emergency. The 999 call-centre knows that you're calling from a mobile phone and their records will verify it.

Secondly, when you call the police, they usually know you're using a mobile or ask if you are (it's usually pretty obvious from the background noise that you're driving).

They then instruct you to pull over (if it's a genuine emergency) or ask you to call back when safe to do so.

Finally ...... if he had been cut off mid-sentence, I would have thought they would have called him back? :confused:

Which all seems to suggest to me that ..... he wasn't on the phone to the Police at all, but was (rightfully) too ashamed to tell his MIL that he'd jeopardised her daughter's wellbeing and that of their family, by putting his job on the line for a pointless call! No wonder he didn't want to admit to the real reason for the call ;)

I also wonder if his bluetooth battery had actually failed ;)

!!!! & bull story - off with his head! :D

[Debt_Free_Chick]

Yes he made sa mistake but then I am sure he is aware of it and he does have afamily to support.

Made a mistake? Surely he knowingly and intentionally used his mobile phone whilst driving, rather than simply pull over to the side of the road or complete the call later.

Where's the mistake?

[catlover1]

Made a mistake? Surely he knowingly and intentionally used his mobile phone whilst driving, rather than simply pull over to the side of the road or complete the call later.

Where's the mistake?


Have you never done anything without thinking that was wrong and regretted it later .... I really wish I was that perfect :confused: :confused: that i felt I could sit in judgement of others.

Th OP was asking for help not blame


xx

[Sam Bee]

I have a friend who gathered 12 points, but the judge did not suspend his license as he was a teacher and required a car to get to work (no alternatives).

I wonder what the rules are on discretion, and on whether this would apply in this case? Surely the alternatives are losing job, potentially not being able to support family, going onto state benefits, costing us all? A lose - lose situation to suspend his license? But, as a non-car owner, i'm sure an expert can advise further.

Oh, all the judgemental & overly harsh comments - keep them to yourself. I might agree with you, the OP might agree with them, but they provide no help here, make you look petty, alienate people from asking for help in difficult situations and are actually, pointless.

[Debt_Free_Chick]

Have you never done anything without thinking that was wrong and regretted it later .... I really wish I was that perfect :confused: :confused: that i felt I could sit in judgement of others.

Th OP was asking for help not blame


xx

But doing something that you know is wrong is not a mistake, is it? It's not as if it's something done "accidentally" - it was done on purpose.

Now then, the person concerned has knowingly committed a serious traffic offence. One which, I strongly suspect, he knew full well would lead to him losing his license, if caught. You don't think he considered this at the time "Oh, I'll lose my license if I'm caught. I'd better ......."? continue the call regardless?

There is no other option but blame. There is no way out of this, unless we all help to create a web of deceipt - which is not something that I think MSE should ever be a party to.

Add to this, that his story doesn't actually stack up. There's simply too much co-incidence ......

"There I was, being a model citizen, on the phone to the Police, when - would you believe it - the battery ran out on the headset. But I managed to disengage the headset, pick up the phone and continue the call - all without putting anyone in any danger at all. And what's my reward, well the b**tards nabbed me for it!"

I don't believe a word of it, sorry. Maybe I'm just old and cynical ;) but there is no getting away from the fact that he knew what he was doing; he knew the risks if he got caught; and he still went ahead.

There is no "advice" we can give - other than to ram home what he's done in the hope that he really does learn his lesson.

[wendfd]

He was receiving a call FROM the police about an incident NOT making a call. His bluetooth hands free battery died so he picked up the handset.

He has 3 points already this 3 will give him 6 -

I am pleased to see so many responses to my post. I would probably agree with the more harsh comments if it wasn't my family being effected. It is very hard for young families anyway. They have a hard enough struggle with everything else!

Wendy

[wendfd]

He was receiving a call FROM the police about an incident NOT making a call. His bluetooth hands free battery died so he picked up the handset.

He has 3 points already this 3 will give him 6 -

I am pleased to see so many responses to my post. I would probably agree with the more harsh comments if it wasn't my family being effected. It is very hard for young families anyway. They have a hard enough struggle with everything else!

Wendy
He couldn't pull over as someone suggested as he was in traffic at Elephant and Castle

[soolin]

Have you never done anything without thinking that was wrong and regretted it later .... I really wish I was that perfect :confused: :confused: that i felt I could sit in judgement of others.

Th OP was asking for help not blame


xx

I'm sure we have all made mistakes and have regretted doing something that with hindsight was foolish. However the relative of the OP should be accepting he has done something stupid and accept the blame, maybe looking at ways to find other employment, rather than looking for an easy way out.

Recently a senior member of the Government was prosecuted for using a mobile while driving, so it does appear to be something that is taken seriously.

If this was an emergency 999 call it would mean that there was a crime in progress..so why had the relative continued to drive away from a crime rather than stop to help? If it was a moving crime or the OP feared for their own safety then surely driving half a mile up the road and stopping safely before making a call might have been more appropriate? I struggle to think of a situation where the relative had to continue driving yet needed to report a crime urgently enough to knowingly break the law.

[Debt_Free_Chick]

Oh, all the judgemental & overly harsh comments - keep them to yourself. I might agree with you, the OP might agree with them, but they provide no help here, make you look petty, alienate people from asking for help in difficult situations and are actually, pointless.

There is no help. It's an automatic penalty - £60 and three points on the license.

As he's had his license for less than 2 years, it will be revoked.

Of course, he could contest this in Court ..... but where's his defense? And is he really going to reel his fairytale to the Magistrates? If he does, we can be sure that the CPS will get his phone records to prove the number he had dialled.

Even the use of hands-free phones is not acceptable. You can still be distracted and if the Police believe you've been driving erratically whilst using a hands-free phone, you get the same penalty. And the penalties apply if you're stationary e.g. at traffic lights or in a queue.

New drivers simply don't have sufficient experience in the best of driving situations. But to be a novice AND use the phone whilst driving creates a potentially dangerous situation for other road users, including pedestrians.

It's a hard lesson to learn - and a hard way to learn it. But he simply knew what he was doing.

[espresso]

He was receiving a call FROM the police about an incident NOT making a call. His bluetooth hands free battery died so he picked up the handset.

He has 3 points already this 3 will give him 6 -

I am pleased to see so many responses to my post. I would probably agree with the more harsh comments if it wasn't my family being effected. It is very hard for young families anyway. They have a hard enough struggle with everything else!

Wendy

The law is the law and he did not have to pick up the handset to continue the call as it was clearly not an emergency call. I don't understand why he is going to appeal, as the Highway code states (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069870):

Penalty points and disqualification The penalty point system is intended to deter drivers and motorcyclists from following unsafe motoring practices. Certain non-motoring offences, e.g. failure to rectify vehicle defects, can also attract penalty points. The court MUST order points to be endorsed on the licence according to the fixed number or the range set by Parliament. The accumulation of penalty points acts as a warning to drivers and motorcyclists that they risk disqualification if further offences are committed.Admit to the crime and take the punishment.

[soolin]

He was receiving a call FROM the police about an incident NOT making a call. His bluetooth hands free battery died so he picked up the handset.



This makes it even more confusing as this suggest it was not a crime in progress but an exisiting matter..so waiting a few minutes until a safe place to stop could be found and the call returned would appear to have been a logical thing to do?

I work for more than one official Government department and yes I get very important calls..however I can assure people that I am not allowed under any circumstances to drive while on a mobile, so policy is that a voicemail message is left and I call back at the earliest possible time it is safe to do so. If I answered a call while driving that would in itself be a disciplinary matter.

[peterbaker]

Hi Sam Bee!

Gawd, this thread really does separate the chaff, don't it? :rolleyes:

[Tomthumb]

I must say I am shocked at everyones judgemental attitude - whatever happened to being nice to moneysavers :confused: :confused: anyone can make a mistake
xx

Hmm Would you still be saying that if he had killed someone through his lack of concentration in a very busy area?

I have driven for a living as a courier for more than 18 months and have held my clean license for 14 years. I could be sympathetic if it was a genuine mistake by the driver but it clearly wasn't, not sure what else to say :confused:

[mystic_trev]

I'm NOT commenting on this case, but would like to voice a fact about the use of mobile phones whilst driving. The risks involved are the same as somebody driving whilst over the drink / drive limit. The penalties ought to be the same.

[Debt_Free_Chick]

He was receiving a call FROM the police about an incident NOT making a call. His bluetooth hands free battery died so he picked up the handset.

I wonder if you're getting the truth and the whole truth here. :confused:

It's pretty obvious when talking to someone who is in a car ... especially around London! I'm surprised the Police didn't suggest that they call him back at another time - especially as they knew that they had dialled a mobile number ;)

But it was still his choice to continue the call (he could have dropped it and let them call back). He could have ignored the call in the first place and let it go to answerphone.

Yes - I've been harsh, but there is no point in suggesting he defend this. He chose to use the handset and I can't think of a good reason to defend that, which the Courts would agree with.

If you are fully convinced by his story, then get advice as to the likelihood of winning a reprieve in Court. But be aware that if the Court doesn't let him off, then the fine could be as much as £1,000 - and there's a strong case that they'll still revoke his license.

The Courts are not very understanding in this situation.

[peterbaker]

Yep Mystic_Trevs right about how bad your luck can turn out when hurtling in metal boxes ... same as if you are lighting up a cigarette, just a plain hopeless driver, half-blind but somehow still driving with the wrong glasses, or driving at night with hopeless eyesight like I expect I'll have when I get old, or an epileptic who has mucked up their medication, or been up on MSE all night and driven down a railway embankment, or someone who has just had a blazing row with the OH. Lot's of reasons why accidents happen ... get a grip here please ladies and gentlefolk :p

[wendfd]

Another thought ....

Most people reading this thread have had the benefits of having 12 points before getting anywhere near losing their licence. The new law for new drivers has its good points but they hardly have much chance to learn a lesson. Its easy to pick up speeding fines (I have one myself and I'm a 55 year old grandmother who hardly ever goes above the speed limit) He will have to resit his test with all the cost of that.

[espresso]

Another thought ....

Most people reading this thread have had the benefits of having 12 points before getting anywhere near losing their licence. The new law for new drivers has its good points but they hardly have much chance to learn a lesson. Its easy to pick up speeding fines (I have one myself and I'm a 55 year old grandmother who hardly ever goes above the speed limit) He will have to resit his test with all the cost of that.

But you seem to think that he should be treated differently to others i.e. a special case why?

[Sam Bee]

I thought this was moneysaving board to provide help & assistance? I didn't realise it had changed to the 'beat someone when they are down board'?

The potential outcome of this to a young family could be severe. Sounds like he could be the main bread earner. Might have kids to support. Might be difficult to get alternate jobs and replace the income he will probably be losing, and his family could suffer as a result. Any self respecting mother / mother in law would be doing the correct thing to ask about help or assistance. Can't you go and discuss the morals in the 'on my high horse as i'm so perfect' thread?

[catlover1]

I thought this was moneysaving board to provide help & assistance? I didn't realise it had changed to the 'beat someone when they are down board'?

The potential outcome of this to a young family could be severe. Sounds like he could be the main bread earner. Might have kids to support. Might be difficult to get alternate jobs and replace the income he will probably be losing, and his family could suffer as a result. Any self respecting mother / mother in law would be doing the correct thing to ask about help or assistance. Can't you go and discuss the morals in the 'on my high horse as i'm so perfect' thread?


Well said :beer:

[Wig]

As usual the "holier than thou" brigade are out in force, writing off topic comments about how he should take the wrap, lose his job and give up without a fight. And basically offering no help whatsoever to the OP.


What he should do is appeal any fine/points pre-court conditional offer. Get himself a solicitor to represent him in court. He may pay more in fines and costs and still collect the points, but I reckon the magistrate will not revoke his licence.

Tell him to ask around if anyone knows of a solicitor/barrister who is good at defending motoring offences. Go to the court itself, ask people, court employees, if they can recommend anyone. Ask the duty solicitor.

[Wig]

But you seem to think that he should be treated differently to others i.e. a special case why?

Is it "special" to want to take your lawful right to have your case put before a court so that an experienced magistrate can judge the case according to its merits? And give a reasoned judgement instead of a computer automated judgement?

[Debt_Free_Chick]

Can't you go and discuss the morals in the 'on my high horse as i'm so perfect' thread?

It's difficult to offer advice and assistance without addressing the morals, though. In order to assist him, he needs to have a valid defence - without it, there's no point in attempting to defend the penalty. Indeed, it would cost money to do so. So, we are being MoneySaving by stating that - as he knowingly committed the offence - there's no point in paying a solicitor and a barrister to defend this in Court.

Some people may well believe that he should simply be punished. But my take on this is that he cannot avoid punishment as he has no defence . Hence, why I asked in my very first post if he had dialled 999 on relation to a genuine emergency - as that might have been a valid defence ;)

In addition to the crime, he has a rather unconvincing story which appears to make him appear :confused: to be a liar too. I don't think we'd do anyone any favours at all if we suggested that they present themselves to the Court to defend an offence, based on a story that is less than true (or, at least, appears to be).

It would be of concern if someone suggested how "he might get away with it"

[espresso]

Is it "special" to want to take your lawful right to have your case put before a court so that an experienced magistrate can judge the case according to its merits? And give a reasoned judgement instead of a computer automated judgement?

As a new driver only three points away from a potential ban, they should have been more careful.

Yes there are obviously two sides to this argument/discussion but I guess that this will be yet another one of those many threads, where the eventual outcome does not get posted, so don't lose any sleep over it.

[Debt_Free_Chick]

What he should do is appeal any fine/points pre-court conditional offer. Get himself a solicitor to represent him in court. He may pay more in fines and costs and still collect the points, but I reckon the magistrate will not revoke his licence.

If he gets the points, revocation of his license is automatic. The Clerk to the Court has to record the points with DVLA - and as a novice "on probation", he WILL lose his license.

[Wig]

If he gets the points, revocation of his license is automatic. The Clerk to the Court has to record the points with DVLA - and as a novice "on probation", he WILL lose his license.

I'm sure his solicitor will advise him if it is a lost cause or if the magistrate has discretion not to revoke the licence, or discretion on the number of points issued. If it is a lost cause the solicitor would tell him that in the free consultation.

[Wig]

but I guess that this will be yet another one of those many threads, where the eventual outcome does not get posted, so don't lose any sleep over it.

Hey Wendfd OP,

Your character is being called into question, would you care to say whether you intend to help us to help others by reporting back here the outcome of the situation? Feedback is a major factor in the advice people can offer on any forum.

[wendfd]

The police officer he was speaking to has agreed to their name being given as part of his defence. So he is not lying about the call. As to what stage he picked up the phone I cant be sure.

I know it dosen't really make a difference but I don' t like to read him being described as a liar/ fairy story teller etc.

I would like to know how many points every body on this thread has.

I have 3

[Debt_Free_Chick]

I'm sure his solicitor will advise him if it is a lost cause or if the magistrate has discretion not to revoke the licence, or discretion on the number of points issued. If it is a lost cause the solicitor would tell him that in the free consultation.

And some of here would probably have a view if we knew what he was going to say to defend himself ;)

The automatic revocation is in primary legislation - Road Traffic (New Drivers) Act 1995 (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1995/ukpga_19950013_en_1#pb1-l1g1) which is also free :D

[astonsmummy]

Another thought ....

Most people reading this thread have had the benefits of having 12 points before getting anywhere near losing their licence. The new law for new drivers has its good points but they hardly have much chance to learn a lesson. Its easy to pick up speeding fines (I have one myself and I'm a 55 year old grandmother who hardly ever goes above the speed limit) He will have to resit his test with all the cost of that.

This 'new' law has been around for at least 5 years (i remeber it being in force when i passed my test)
I remeber driving the streets like a granny for 2 years scared of putting a foot wrong incase i lost my licence.
I am a 23 year old mother and have never got a speeding fine :confused:
I understand this must be a horrible time for him, i use my car for my job it is essential so i know how much it means, but that in turn makes me more careful about my driving as i know there is more at stake.
And no i aint perfect, i just beleive that if you do the crime you got to be prepared to do the time.
By all means get him to try and get out of it, but i wouldnt of thought they would take him reporting a crime whilst commiting one as a good enough excuse.

[dawnydee73]

If he gets the points, revocation of his license is automatic. The Clerk to the Court has to record the points with DVLA - and as a novice "on probation", he WILL lose his license.
This is correct, the DVLA will automatically have his license revoked and you cannot appeal against this. This is because he is in his 2 year probation

However, because it is revoked he has not been banned. He can apply for a provisional license and then its up to him how soon he will get his license back. He will have to do his theory and practical test again.

Hopefully he will learn from this and become a better driver because if he gets another 6 points in 3 years he will be banned

[astonsmummy]

I have a big fat 0 points :D

[Yorkshire-Lady]

Points on my licence - 0
I passed my test on April 18th 1980.

My son is 18 and passed his test on aug 31st. He has had his own car since before passing his test. I've drummed it into him that it's too easy to rack up 6 points and be back to square one.
I sincerely hope he listens.
If he doesn't, and loses his licence, than I'm afraid it's his own fault.

[Yorkshire-Lady]

By the way, I've NEVER had any points on my license.

[Conor]

Seconded, Tomthumb. I'm a HGV driver and have done over 1.8 million miles in the past 15 years without getting a single point or parking ticket despite driving all over the UK - certainly not in familiar areas where I know where every speed trap is. In fact, since I passed my driving test 20 years ago, I've only ever had 3 points (56 in a 40 in 1989) and no parking tickets.

[Tomthumb]

I disagree with people saying that the reactions on here are not in the spirit of MSE. I think that people have replied justly and I know that the family will get all the support and advice they need if he does lose his job as MSE is brilliant! :T

[anewman]

I'm on the start of the road to sucess. No parking tickets, no speeding fines etc. Although not yet reached the 1 year mark.

If talking on the phone whilst driving is that critical you can get a bluetooth handsfree with a combined dash-mount/charger, or even a system that's wired into the car. There are a number of dedicated bluetooth handsfree systems, and also some car stereos have these features built in, or have add-ons available.

I personally strongly believe repeat offenders should not be offered any favourable discretion and should face the consequences, and if it means losing their job, they should lose their job. If they didn't learn the first time, or second time, why should we give them a third, fourth and fifth chance!? They knew the consequences when speeding, talking on the phone, and so on, so why should they feel the need to not be punished when they're unlucky enough to be caught in the act?! Having a driving license is a privelige, not a right. You have to abide by the law in order to keep it - or lose it. When millions of people can stay within the law for many years, why should we have to put up with speeders, people talking on mobiles and so on - just because they have a job?!

[Debt_Free_Chick]

If talking on the phone whilst driving is that critical you can get a bluetooth handsfree with a combined dash-mount/charger, or even a system that's wired into the car. There are a number of dedicated bluetooth handsfree systems, and also some car stereos have these features built in, or have add-ons available.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

The OP WAS using bluetooth handsfree, when the battery ran out, so he picked up the handset.

But you are not completely off the hook for using hands-free. If the Police stop you for driving erratically and you were using a hands-free at the time, they can STILL issue with a fixed-penalty notice on the basis that you were not paying due care and attention. The fact remains that, even with a hands-free, under what circumstances is it VITAL that you take THAT call at THAT time whilst driving? :confused:

I personally strongly believe repeat offenders should not be offered any favourable discretion and should face the consequences, and if it means losing their job, they should lose their job. If they didn't learn the first time, or second time, why should we give them a third, fourth and fifth chance!? They knew the consequences when speeding, talking on the phone, and so on, so why should they feel the need to not be punished when they're unlucky enough to be caught in the act?! Having a driving license is a privelige, not a right. You have to abide by the law in order to keep it - or lose it. When millions of people can stay within the law for many years, why should we have to put up with speeders, people talking on mobiles and so on - just because they have a job?!

Can't argue with that ;) although the disqualification threshold under the points totting-up rule is lower for new drivers. But my understanding is that this new law was based on research showing that a frightening number of new drivers were responsible for accidents or committed driving offences during the first two years of driving with a full license. And, more alarmingly, the "offence" rate was particularly high amongst young men in the 18-25 age group.

The system is supposed to be a deterrent to encourage responsible driving.

[iolanthe07]

I would like to know how many points every body on this thread has.

None at all - never have had, or a parking ticket either, and been driving for 44 years.:A

[anewman]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

The OP WAS using bluetooth handsfree, when the battery ran out, so he picked up the handset.
My suggestions would prevent the battery running out problem ;)

[Wig]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

The OP WAS using bluetooth handsfree, when the battery ran out, so he picked up the handset.

But you are not completely off the hook for using hands-free. If the Police stop you for driving erratically and you were using a hands-free at the time, they can STILL issue with a fixed-penalty notice on the basis that you were not paying due care and attention. The fact remains that, even with a hands-free, under what circumstances is it VITAL that you take THAT call at THAT time whilst driving? :confused:


They can issue a without due care and attention notice if they see you driving erratically, the fact you were or were not on the phone is not really relevant, (unless it is hand held, then it would get you an additional charge), either you were or were not driving erratically.

It doesn't have to be VITAL to take a call to use a hands free set. The law allows a hands free set to be used, end of.

[Wig]

I'd like to know how many points have you all got?

None. I had 3 around 1988 for parking on Zig Zags, never did that again.

I've had more than my fair share of Speeding NIPs sent to me, but never had to pay out or receive points on any one of them. I'm older and wiser now, and generally don't speed, except in 20, 30 & 40 zones where I decide that it is safe to do so, and that I won't be caught.
(To anyone inclined, don't even bother to post your outrage to my honesty, I don't care what you think).


I'd like to know, OP, if you will be returning to post the outcome of all of this?

[HelpWhereIcan]

Have to say that I am with the "on my moral high horse brigade" on this one. A white van man on his mobile ran a set of red traffic lights before braking hard when he realised. My wife (on a green light) had to brake even harder to stop herself going into the side of him. He then had the cheek to rant and guesticulate at her for beeping at him!!!

I think the use of a mobile should be punished in the same way as a drink driver. I need one for work, but always have the hands free activated, only dial out using voice recognition and only answer a call with the steering wheel based button.. but then again, I am perfect. Other than my 6 points over 15 years for speeding (SP30s all long gone now).

However, I did appear in a traffic court when I first started driving. I had passed my test 14 months beforehand, but had not sent my provisional and pass certificate off to be converted into a full licence within the required 12 months (young and lazy!).

Got pulled over, got a producer and the police would not accept it, arguing I was driving without a valid licence and therefore without insurance. They took me to court for driving without a licence and without insurance. If I lost my licence I lost my job so bricks fell very freely!

On the day I used the duty solicitor to get some advice and he decided to come in with me and argue that the DVLA would still change it to a full licence. CPS guy argued that my insurance would still be invalid and that I should receive a ban for that (he was a really fat, pompous t**t).

Duty solicitor told magistrate that my job would be lost if banned.

The magistrate told me to go away and get confirmation from my insurer that I would have been covered and come back in a week. Company car meant that I had to advise my employer and being in financial services, they were not happy.

Any how, letter from insurance company duly produced. Magistrate said to CPS guy "are you still looking for a ban?". CPS dropped case. Me extremely relieved.

Basically, tell the truth. Do not try to BS (they have heard it all before) - my response to why have you not sent it off yet was - sorry, I have no excuse and wish I could change it.

I would also advise that he bring it up with his employer now as they may look upon the whole thing more favourably if he is upfront.

They may give him a desk based job and some time to retake his test if they feel he is honest and not leaving them to find out when it is a done deal. They may also be willing to vouch for him (or his potential job loss). They may also say that they are willing to put him on an advanced driving course - he could offer to go on one at his own expense.

He must not forget that when driving on business, the company are responsible for him if he crashes into anyone and directors can be prosecuted if he hurts/kills anyone.

Show his employer and court that it was a one off and lesson learned and he may get a break. Try and BS anyone and he will deserve whatever he gets.

[Alikay]

Points on my licence - 0, and have never had any in 26 years of driving, same with DH

It took me 7 test attempts and over 2 years of lessons to pass so I've made damn sure I keep my licence. If my phone goes, I don't answer it: I pull into a side street, services or whatever and hit "missed calls" then return the call. I've got 3 kids and elderly mum & MIL but no call is so important that it can't wait a few mins till I park up.

Don't want to come across as pious and holier-than-thou: I drink, eat too much, sometimes say stuff that upsets people etc etc-but I always treat driving with the respect it deserves - a mistake behind the wheel can cost lives and destroy families.

Luckily the OP's son-in-law will have learnt his lesson without anyone getting hurt. OK, his family may have it tough financially for a while but he'll hopefully get on his bike and work that bit harder until he's allowed to drive again.

[Yorkshire-Lady]

I appreciate this is off topic - but in MY OPINION, you shouldnt be able to smoke while driving either <<<<<ducks rotten tomatoes>>>>>

I know some of you will say that it's as dangerous to swap cd's/change radio channels, but smoking is far more dangerous. Drop a cd, it gets a scratch, drop a cigarette, and you risk swerving or setting your car on fire!

As I said, this is just MY opinion!

Sally x

[wendfd]

The owner of the following thread got much more sympathy?

Speedy Fine Appeals Form

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=442245

Beginning to wish I hadn't asked.:rolleyes:

[LuciferTDark]

For the first 2 yrs after passing your driving test it's 6 points & you lose your license, after that it's 12 points. I've just passed the 2yr mark with no points at all, it's not that difficult to stick to the rules.

Having seen the results of what can happen when someone uses their phone while driving I'd say he's gotten off lightly, he could have been staring at a death by dangerous driving conviction or he could have been dead himself, luckily for him the cops stopped him before that happened.

Lets hope this has educated him into thinking about other road users & not just himself.

[Alikay]

I appreciate this is off topic - but in MY OPINION, you shouldnt be able to smoke while driving either <<<<<ducks rotten tomatoes>>>>>

I agree - same goes for eating a Big Mac, drinking from a can, rummaging in glove box, opening pack of sweets, arguing with passengers, shaving with one of those in-car razors (eeeww!!) and all the other distracting things people get up to in the privacy of their own cars! If you could legislate against each and every one of them, someone would just come up with another risky in-car activity.

It must be said that speaking on a mobile phone has to be one of the most dangerous, and simplest to define - hence the law.

[Sam Bee]

The owner of the following thread got much more sympathy?
Speedy Fine Appeals Form
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=442245
Beginning to wish I hadn't asked.:rolleyes:

Unfortunately you unintentionally opened up a moral debate, and taken a bit of a kicking at the same time.

That'll teach you to ask for help.

[catlover1]

Having seen the results of what can happen when someone uses their phone while driving I'd say he's gotten off lightly, he could have been staring at a death by dangerous driving conviction or he could have been dead himself, luckily for him the cops stopped him before that happened.

Lets hope this has educated him into thinking about other road users & not just himself.

Firstly I have no points and use a hands free - I insert my sim card in the dashboard before starting the engine and use the controls on my steering wheel to answer the phone (and I drive over 30,000 miles per year) and sympathise with the OP ---- BUT this santimonious attitude of everyone and ridiculas statements such as the one above make me really mad.:mad: do you want to ban everything of course he wouldn't have killed someone just beause he used his phone any more then if he smoked, ate a sandwich, listened to the radio, talked to a passenger I could go on and on in fact anything at all that might reduce concentration,

Do you people want to ban everyone from driving and lock most of the population up ???:confused: :confused:

Surely there are real crimes out there to be worried about like stealing, gun crime etc... things that are truely bad not just thoughtless.

xx

[kitchen buff]

My advice is dont do it again. I really hate drivers who use hand held mobiles whilst driving. there is no excuse for it, hands free kits and bluetooth are so cheap.
Here is a joke.
The vet tells the irish farmer that all his cows have got blue tongue.
Oh my god replied the farmer, I never even knew they had mobile phones.

[LuciferTDark]

Firstly I have no points and use a hands free - I insert my sim card in the dashboard before starting the engine and use the controls on my steering wheel to answer the phone (and I drive over 30,000 miles per year) and sympathise with the OP ---- BUT this santimonious attitude of everyone and ridiculas statements such as the one above make me really mad.:mad: do you want to ban everything of course he wouldn't have killed someone just beause he used his phone any more then if he smoked, ate a sandwich, listened to the radio, talked to a passenger I could go on and on in fact anything at all that might reduce concentration,

Do you people want to ban everyone from driving and lock most of the population up ???:confused: :confused:

Surely there are real crimes out there to be worried about like stealing, gun crime etc... things that are truely bad not just thoughtless.

xxSorry but if you take your attention off the controls of the car & what the car is doing at the time you are a danger to other road users & even in some cases pedestrians, I forgot to mention in my last post that I was also clipped by a car while on the pavement thanks to the idiot behind the wheel using his mobile & mounting the kerb.

Again, ANYTHING that takes your attention away from properly controlling the car makes you a danger to other road users & yourself & you deserve what you get if you lose your license.

[catlover1]

Sorry but if you take your attention off the controls of the car & what the car is doing at the time you are a danger to other road users & even in some cases pedestrians, I forgot to mention in my last post that I was also clipped by a car while on the pavement thanks to the idiot behind the wheel using his mobile & mounting the kerb.

Again, ANYTHING that takes your attention away from properly controlling the car makes you a danger to other road users & yourself & you deserve what you get if you lose your license.


Sorry what proof do you actually have that the phone was the cause of him mounting the curb ???? he might have done it anyway :confused: :confused:

I think you are just looking for a way to blame the phone for the drivers obviously bad driving ... if he mounted the pavement and hurt you he should have been done for driving without due care and attention or even dangerous driving ... but its how he was driving that caused the accident not using a phone :confused: :confused:

[peterbaker]

Gawd, what a load of old Marys on this thread!

I've been driving well over 30 years and got my first points about 3 months after I passed my test - I was breaking the speed limit in an Austin 1100 - should have got a medal not points! I only got stopped because I wasn't being green (petrol rationing speed limit 50mph applied last time OPEC got really shirty :eek:)

I have since collected no less than about six other speeding convictions, although never more than one on my license at an one time until this last year (which should give you a clue about how easy it now is to collect points compared to the days of my youth and exuberance), plus a rash of parking tickets.

But then I have driven about 600,000 miles which is like to the moon and back twice.

There was a period of about four years when I used to spend about two hours a day on the phone whilst driving (I was a rep) and I have had very few accidents (only two minor shunts that were my fault and none that I noticed whilst on the phone :p) and like Rainman (Dustin Hoffmann) I consider myself a very good driver :D, but my eyesight isn't as good as it was so I might be more oblivious to Third Party gesticulations than I once was :p

BTW catlover, NICE CAR! :D

[Inactive]

Strange how people " need " a mobile phone in a car etc. these days, what on earth did we all do before mobile phones??

Personally I would ban them from all vehicles, including trains and buses.

I would also ban Sat Navs, they are equally distracting and not necessary.

[catlover1]

Strange how people " need " a mobile phone in a car etc. these days, what on earth did we all do before mobile phones??

Personally I would ban them from all vehicles, including trains and buses.

I would also ban Sat Navs, they are equally distracting and not necessary.


Regarding Sat Nav's do you think its safer to listen to a voice daying go left in 400 feet and keep your eyes on the road or as I have seen people do previously drive with a map on the steering wheel or in their hand and look between that and the road.

Now you can say pull over and memorise it but for me that would involve prbably stopping after every turn as I have no sense of direction ... and its not safe or allowed to stop on motorways dual carraigeways nor is it always possible in London ... I am of the oppinon that navigating is much safer with sat nav then maps :confused:

[catlover1]

[quote=Inactive;6758634]

Personally I would ban them from all vehicles, including trains and buses.

quote]

Sorry if I am a passenger on a train or bus a how exactly am I a danger to anyone ... if its hearing someone on the phone talking is your issue do you also propose to stop people talking to each other :confused: :confused: on buses on trains

They do have quiet carraiges for those who want to have peace and quiet , maybe have a snooze get some work done.

[photome]

To the OP

I have had 3 points on my licensein the past, 0 at the moment, been driving for 38 years averaging over 50,000 miles a year.

I know drive a company car and it is company policy not to answer the phone while driving.

If I ignored that (not saying i havent done) and was caught, i would accept that i was in the wrong and take the punishment.

Also can the OP tell us if she is goingto come back on here with the outcome as most people dont??

[Inactive]

[quote=Inactive;6758634]



They do have quiet carraiges for those who want to have peace and quiet , maybe have a snooze get some work done.

Not on my local trains they don't, they are nothing but a bloody nuisance.

[Inactive]

... and its not safe or allowed to stop on motorways dual carraigeways nor is it always possible in London ... I am of the oppinon that navigating is much safer with sat nav then maps :confused:


If you need a Sat Nav to navigate a Motorway, I have my doubts about your rights to hold a Driving Licence.

Oh and if people just listened to a Sat Nav, how come they have screens?, usually in their field of vision.
:rolleyes:

[peterbaker]

... been driving for 38 years averaging over 50,000 miles a year. Crikey are you James Lovell?? No can't be! He's only been twice round the moon too! Sounds like you've been there and back 7 times !

[catlover1]

[quote=catlover1;6758724]

Not on my local trains they don't, they are nothing but a bloody nuisance.

So should everyone sit in complete silence ....what the difference between you talking to a friend and my talking to a friend on my mobile ...:confused:

Mobile phones are a fact of life I have 2 a work one and a personal and never never turn them off or don't bring them with me .. ( unless on a plane then off or in a meeting then they are on silent and I check them every 20 mins in case )

I would feel like I was missing a limb without my phone but then I am of a generation that grew up with mobiles ...

[Inactive]

[quote=Inactive;6758976]

So should everyone sit in complete silence ....what the difference between you talking to a friend and my talking to a friend on my mobile ...:confused:

...


My friend doesn't ring in my ear every time he / she wants to speak, nor does he/she need to raise their voice to have a conversation, like bloody mobile phone freaks.:rolleyes:

[Inactive]

[quote=Inactive;6758976]


Mobile phones are a fact of life I have 2 a work one and a personal and never never turn them off or don't bring them with me .. ( unless on a plane then off or in a meeting then they are on silent and I check them every 20 mins in case )

I would feel like I was missing a limb without my phone but then I am of a generation that grew up with mobiles ...

How very sad.:rolleyes:

[catlover1]

If you need a Sat Nav to navigate a Motorway, I have my doubts about your rights to hold a Driving Licence.

Oh and if people just listened to a Sat Nav, how come they have screens?, usually in their field of vision.
:rolleyes:

sorry what I meant was for example if I had to go to nottingham from my house I don't know the city ( and there are 3 possible junctions you could get off at) therefore I would have little option without a sat nav but to use a map and stop repeatedly to read it . Have just checked on sat nav and the journey I am thinking of has 42 turns now if you can remember this in your head having never done the journey great I take my hat off to you ... butmost people wouldn't they would need to refer to the map at some point particularly as the journey is over 100 miles door to door.

If not sat nav's please suggest a safer practicle alternative as maps are not safer.

As to the screens in the field of vision on removeable ones there is no need for them to be in the filed of vision ... the manuals advise you to place them so you are not obsructing your vision ... its the owners choice.

With ones that are part of you car .. as is mine .. then they are part of the radio as is my sim card slot for the phone ... not blocking my vision at all.



xx

[catlover1]

[quote=catlover1;6759048]


My friend doesn't ring in my ear every time he / she wants to speak, nor does he/she need to raise their voice to have a conversation, like bloody mobile phone freaks.:rolleyes:

Sorry I was under the impression we were having a pleasant discussion ... there is no need to call people freaks ... how would you feel if someone called you or a member of your family a freak ... its a little over the top don't you think .. we are all entitled to our opinion said in a polite kind way that doesn't hurt someones feelings

[anewman]

If not sat nav's please suggest a safer practicle alternative as maps are not safer.
I tried writing down the directions from a sat nav on a bit of paper (the battery was dying at the time and I didn't have a car charger to hand) and sticking it to the sun visor. However, I made two wrong turns I wouldn't have made had I had the sat nav turned on. IMO it's the pressing buttons on the sat nav that directs your attention away from the road.

To OP, although the thread has been overrun with the I've never done anything wrong and got few or no points crowd (including me), there's no need to feel hard done by. It's not crime of the century! It would be much worse had the phone call led to someone's injury/death, and while many people on the phone may have no accidents, evidence shows mobiles are involved in a large proportion of accidents hence the legislation against their use whilst driving. The experts even say handsfree should be illegal too, so the laws could go further.

As already said, if he loses his job and license, it's not the end of the world - but whatever happens I'm guessing he won't be using the phone again whilst driving.

[anewman]

we are all entitled to our opinion said in a polite kind way that doesn't hurt someones feelings
I think the use of the term "mobile phone freaks" was to refer to a person who cannot be separated from their phone and has to have it beside their ear or in their hand all waking hours, as opposed to the general use of the word "freak".

[Wig]

If I ignored that (not saying i havent done) and was caught, i would accept that i was in the wrong and take the punishment.

So let me get this straight, you're in your car the phone rings, you answer it, you get caught, your going to lose your licence and your job if you just pay the fine and take the points.

You're telling me you would just accept that without asking a court to consider your position?

[photome]

So let me get this straight, you're in your car the phone rings, you answer it, you get caught, your going to lose your licence and your job if you just pay the fine and take the points.

You're telling me you would just accept that without asking a court to consider your position?
I have zero points at the moment, if i was caught I would pay the fine and take the points, If I was on 9 points and another offence would mean a ban, I would not answer the phone...simple really

[Wig]

The owner of the following thread got much more sympathy?

Speedy Fine Appeals Form

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=442245

Beginning to wish I hadn't asked.:rolleyes:

I don't think he did get any better result than you're getting.

Anyway,

The advice is simple, as the issue affects his job, the only logical thing to do is seek professional legal representation, and take their advice on whether to go to court or not.

I hope you will come back and tell us how he got on.

[Wig]

I have zero points at the moment, if i was caught I would pay the fine and take the points, If I was on 9 points and another offence would mean a ban, I would not answer the phone...simple really

You have avoided he issue. You know the OPs sons/nephew (whatever) position, and you said you would pay up and take the punishment. Now either you were givng your example as what you would do in a totally different scenario to OPs son (which is pretty useless - as a comparison - lets face it) or you were saying what you would do in a similar scenario to OPs son i.e. you have 9 points and for whatever reason you answer the phone - and you get caught..... Now answer my question as it was intended.

[harveybobbles]

Isn't it three points, not six? :confused:

Had he dialled 999 to report the crime?

My boss saw a car crash on the m6 a few years ago so he dialed 999 and the operator, specifically asked if he was driving while on the 999 call, to which he replied "no, i'm a passenger" as he got told he'd be commiting an offence.

If someone ran your child over while they were on the phone in the car and came up with the excuse "my bluetooth battery went down". how do you think they'd do in Court...?!

Anyway, back to the original post - he broke the law. He faces the consequences! Sorry... :confused:

[anewman]

My boss saw a car crash on the m6 a few years ago so he dialed 999 and the operator, specifically asked if he was driving while on the 999 call, to which he replied "no, i'm a passenger" as he got told he'd be commiting an offence.

The most recent highway code says must not use a mobile phone except to call emergency services when unable to pull over (well not exact wording) so I am guessing they realised how stupid the above sounded while people lay in the road dying with noone calling 999.

[ozvaldinho]

TomTom satnavs have a setting which you can set to turn off the maps above a certain speed, works well for me.

[photome]

You have avoided he issue. You know the OPs sons/nephew (whatever) position, and you said you would pay up and take the punishment. Now either you were givng your example as what you would do in a totally different scenario to OPs son (which is pretty useless - as a comparison - lets face it) or you were saying what you would do in a similar scenario to OPs son i.e. you have 9 points and for whatever reason you answer the phone - and you get caught..... Now answer my question as it was intended.

Who the F*** do you think you are...."Now answer my question as it was intended" ?

But i will.

Ok looks like my post was useless, I guess I was initially answering the OP post about the amount of points I have.

My opinion is the driver should take his punishment !!

We will never know tho, as with all threads on this board, there is never any follow up.

[wendfd]

Thanks for all your responses. I will let you know the outcome as I am a regular on this website. What I was trying to find out was, was it worth appealing or would he only end up if more trouble if he did. The post about £1000 fine was worrying. But also the post about being able to retake his test straight away was encouraging as we assumed he would have some sort of ban.

The officer who served the penalty did advise him he could appeal, as he obviously felt guilty imposing a penalty that would have such harsh consquences.

Anyway he has until next Wednesday to decide whether to accept the points or appeal.

[Debt_Free_Chick]

Thanks for all your responses. I will let you know the outcome as I am a regular on this website. What I was trying to find out was, was it worth appealing or would he only end up if more trouble if he did. The post about £1000 fine was worrying. But also the post about being able to retake his test straight away was encouraging as we assumed he would have some sort of ban.

I don't think it's "straight away". For now .... he continues to drive on his current licence. If he gets the points (whether automatically or even if he attends Court) ... he still has his license UNTIL he gets the letter from the DVLA. That letter tells him license has been revoked.

He then has to apply for a provisional license, again! He has to tick the box to confirm that his original license has been revoked.

He then has to reapply for the test - both the theory and the driving test.

The officer who served the penalty did advise him he could appeal, as he obviously felt guilty imposing a penalty that would have such harsh consquences.

Anyway he has until next Wednesday to decide whether to accept the points or appeal.

If he wants to appeal, he needs to get advice first - and quickly.

I mentioned the fine. It works like this. He does nothing - accepts the £60 and the points, revocation of license etc.

He appeals. He has to attend Court. The Court could ...

Stick with the Fixed Penalty (unlikely - they don't like you to appeal, unless you have strong grounds)
Impose a higher fine - up to £1,000 but no points (result!)
Impose a higher fine - up to £1,000 and three points, leading to instant revocation
Let's him off, scot-free :eek: :rolleyes: :D .... highly unlikely, IMHOI don't think the Court can apply more than three points - just a higher fine.

But his chances of succeeding must be carefully calculated. Either he makes his own mind up, or gets advice - which could cost money. Whilst many solicitors do give a free half hour consultation, it might not be enough for them to make a firm decision. But maybe worth a try?

My fear is that he would need a bloody good solicitor with a bloody convincing story to avoid three points. We cannot get away from the fact that he was caught using the handset - and there is only a very limited exemption/excuse for that. I rather fear that the Court will want to make an example of him - one; due to the new ban on using the handset and two; as a new driver.

HTH

[Wig]

Who the F*** do you think you are...."Now answer my question as it was intended" ?
A slight over reaction methinks

Ok looks like my post was useless, I guess I was initially answering the OP post about the amount of points I have.

My opinion is the driver should take his punishment !!

You say your post was useless, implying that you atleast see my point that saying what you would do in a totally different scenario is next to useless.

But you go on to say "my opinion is driver should take his punishment" I'm trying to get you to clarify that.

Do you think under the circumstances he finds himself in that he should defend himself in court to try to avoid the maximum 3 points possibly by making the judge aware that 3 points would mean he loses his job. And take the punishment of a higher fine but less points Or

Do you think he should not defend himself in court and just take the 3 points & £60 fine without a fight and lose his job?

Depending on which of the two you decide you mean, would you do the same if your own job depended on it?

[Wig]

Maximum fines (£1000 in this case) are reserved for extreme cases. For example Someone who caused a very serious accident by using a phone, or someone who repeatedly offends the same crime, over and over again - sort of "sticking 2 fingers up at the justice system".

I think it highly unlikely he will get a maximum fine.


He can appeal without legal representation, but he would be fairly stupid to do so. On the basis that if he does appeal he will need legal rep, he should find a solicitor fast and get a free consultation, before Wednesday.

[catlover1]

There is another option he could possible attend a day and half course as part of the National driver improvment scheme... whether he is eligible is up to the police but it is used for people caught using mobiles

Suggest he calls the police asap to see if he is eligible

xx

[derrick]

the operator, specifically asked if he was driving while on the 999 call, to which he replied "no, i'm a passenger" as he got told he'd be commiting an offence.


149 (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070309)

You MUST exercise proper control of your vehicle at all times. You MUST NOT use a hand-held mobile phone, or similar device, when driving or when supervising a learner driver, except to call 999 or 112 in a genuine emergency when it is unsafe or impractical to stop. Never use a hand-held microphone when driving. Using hands-free equipment is also likely to distract your attention from the road. It is far safer not to use any telephone while you are driving or riding - find a safe place to stop first or use the voicemail facility and listen to messages later.


So looks like that operator was wrong.

[Wig]

149 (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070309)

You MUST exercise proper control of your vehicle at all times. You MUST NOT use a hand-held mobile phone, or similar device, when driving or when supervising a learner driver, except to call 999 or 112 in a genuine emergency when it is unsafe or impractical to stop.

So looks like that operator was wrong.

I imagine if you or I or that guys boss were to admit that yes we were still driving, we would get done for it. If it were an off duty police officer, an MP or a beak (judge) They would be let off.

[Dylanwing]

Wendfd - I will never condone using a mobile whilst driving, but in terms of justice, the punishment should be appropriate. Yes, an offence was committed, but nobody was hurt, and is loss of job with all the attached consequences really fair? Meanwhile, we have a Government telling judges not to jail certain criminals because the jails are full, many of whom have committed an offence that has had an impact on others. It is the inconsistency in that motoring offences are fixed penalty, whereas with criminal cases, judges have discretion to make an appropriate sentence.
Good luck, but no sympathy if he is caught again.
Dylanwing - 0 points in 20 years, but not holier than anyone. Just a lucky/ slow driver!

[Debt_Free_Chick]

I imagine if you or I or that guys boss were to admit that yes we were still driving, we would get done for it. If it were an off duty police officer, an MP or a beak (judge) They would be let off.

You mean like Liam Byrne only last week (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7074640.stm)?

[TheImportanceOfBeingIdle]

He was receiving a call FROM the police about an incident NOT making a call. His bluetooth hands free battery died so he picked up the handset.

He has 3 points already this 3 will give him 6 -

I am pleased to see so many responses to my post. I would probably agree with the more harsh comments if it wasn't my family being effected. It is very hard for young families anyway. They have a hard enough struggle with everything else!

Wendy


He's not the only one with a hard life. He knew the risks. He took a risk. I'd guarantee, that like many others who do this, if he hadn't been caught, he would have done it again in future.

[Taffyscot]

Gees you lot don't be so judgemental. He probably thought it was his civic duty to answer the police as it was an important matter. I was called for jury duty and went as a matter of civic duty. I was told that maybe I should not have gone because if I had been picked I would not have been able to be a caregiver for 35 hours or more for my partner and would have to pay someone to care for him. Also sometimes when we are driving and one or other of us feel really tired and want the other one to take over we sometimes have to drive longer than we want because there is nowhere safe to just pull over without that causing an accident. Pulling over is not as easy as that. Go and complain about someone doing a real crime.

[Wig]

You mean like Liam Byrne only last week (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7074640.stm)?

He wasn't phoning 999 was he and felt it impractical to stop? :confused:

[Iamthesmartestmanalive]

Theres a difference between dialing for an emergency and not and I think this is the distinction the court would make

The fact the police pulled him over there and then shows to me their was no imminent emergency so 999 or not he shouldnt have been on the phone

I cant see him winning in court and all he will suceed to do is lose his licence and get a bigger fine

The only thing he might get is that if the court case takes long enough it might take him over 2 years although then again a judge if they saw that sort of attempt to get round the law might hammer him even more or charge a more serious offence , i.e 9 points and a massive fine so it has the same result

At the end of the day I have no sympathy, if he has driven so illegally in less than 2 years he'll be no real loss to britains highways and if he really does need a car for work the investment in legal solutions should have been made

[TheImportanceOfBeingIdle]

Gees you lot don't be so judgemental. He probably thought it was his civic duty to answer the police as it was an important matter. I was called for jury duty and went as a matter of civic duty. I was told that maybe I should not have gone because if I had been picked I would not have been able to be a caregiver for 35 hours or more for my partner and would have to pay someone to care for him. Also sometimes when we are driving and one or other of us feel really tired and want the other one to take over we sometimes have to drive longer than we want because there is nowhere safe to just pull over without that causing an accident. Pulling over is not as easy as that. Go and complain about someone doing a real crime.

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=491377&in_page_id=1770

Is that not real enough? No call, and do mean NO call is THAT important. If you have nowhere to pull over immediately then tough. Wait until you can. Missing a phone call is not going to mean the end of the world.

[JoJoArmani]

Hey Wendy what is the outcome to this post?? :confused:

Is "no news good news"?

JoJo

[chris147]

I don't think it's "straight away". For now .... he continues to drive on his current licence. If he gets the points (whether automatically or even if he attends Court) ... he still has his license UNTIL he gets the letter from the DVLA. That letter tells him license has been revoked.

He then has to apply for a provisional license, again! He has to tick the box to confirm that his original license has been revoked.

He then has to reapply for the test - both the theory and the driving test.



His licence will be revoked (if it does so) as soon as the court says so not when DVLA send him the letter. Same for if you tot up to 12 points, the court automatically take it from you there and then. He should be told to take his licence to court with him due to this.


I'm surprised most people on here are saying that it's unfair on newer drivers to have their licences revoked when they get six points. Look at it from the point of view that a high proportion of accidents involve young drivers who don't have experience and (most) are over confident in their abilities to control a car and antiicpate what is going to happen.

He knew it was illegal to use the handset whilst driving so why did he answer it? I bet he didn't know it was the Police ringing so he would have answered it anyway.

Unfortunately the law is the law and it should be upheld. People should also face up to what they've done rather than try and wriggle out of things.

Also, if he does go to court, loosing your job is no longer considered a hardship.

[bryanb]

Quote-He was receiving a call FROM the police about an incident NOT making a call.

He answered the before he knew it was the police I guess??

[piggeh]

Was just wondering the same - how do yuo know if its the police or someone else? If it's receiving a call and no one is in imminent danger, then there's no excuse to pick it up.

With regards OP (probably too late now) I personally would have appealed. It can take a year to get to court which would give enough time to look for another job if you're not confident.

[wendfd]

I don't suppose anyone remembers or cares but I thought I would come back with the result of this problem.

My son in law appealled against the automatic issue of 3 points following him being caught using his mobile phone, whilst in traffic. (This would have ment having his licence taken away as he is a new driver (less than 2 years)with 3 points already)

The offence took place in Nov 07. The appeal was heard this week April 08 and although he still got the 3 points and £100 fine it was dated this week so he does not get his licence taken away as he has now been driving longer than 2 years!

[confused31]

Nice to hear that, ive only just read the first post and people seemed to be a bit harsh about it.

I use my phone when im stopped in traffic, ill be a bit more cautious in future.

A friend of mine went over 12 points and he kept his licence as the last thing these courts want to do is put people out of work.

I was banned when i was younger and it was a nightmare hopefully its scared him a bit and he wont do it again, i learnt my lesson.

Im glad he got on okay anyway.

confused

[wendfd]

I spoke too soon, yesterday my son in law had a letter advising him to return his licence to the DVLA as they WERE BACKDATING the 3 points to November. He had no reply to his appeal from the court just advice about the fine. They seem to have ignored his appeal completely.

Now he has to wait to hear if his employer is going to change his job roll until he can pass his test again.

He will probably loose the opportunity to earn commision
He has got the fine £100 Plus costs to pay £70
He has the cost of getting to work by train as now can't use company vehicle.
He can't get to his evening job now which he had to make ends meet.

It makes me angry as I see people all the time on the phone in their cars.

[robpw2]

sorry to hear that he has lost his licence and the appeal was not accepted .

I hope he passes his test again soon.

Its unfrtunate that many seem to get away with commiting driving offences but if your caught then that doesnt give you an excuse as my mum would say if they drove off a cliff would you .

[anewman]

It makes me angry as I see people all the time on the phone in their cars.

One day they'll get caught too, obviously with this punishment you will now know not to bother touching mobile phones while driving. A handsfree doesn't cost very much.

Seems only reasonable to date the points at the date of the offence to me, and if the other points didn't help him learn, then this will.

He can sell the car now and make some money out of that.

Why should he appeal when he was on his phone? I don't see the point in wasting court time, and giving yourself yet more costs. Pay the fine, move on and don't make the same mistake again. There's no point appealing for the sake of appealing when you were in the wrong anyway.

[zeon999]

Well if your gonna break the law dont be supprised when you get caught.

I am not saying I have never done anything wrong but difference is when I get caught for it I hold my hands up and say yeah yeah am bad.

We all know the risks when we do something wrong, if he was on 3 points already and needs his license for his job and to look after him family, then he should have took that into consideration before he went ahead and did a phone call while driving.

If your gonna break the rules dont cry when you get caught and dont start claiming oh but I am special I should get away with it.

[pompeyrich]

Sorry to hear the result wasn't what your SIL had hoped for, however points for a 2nd or subsequent offence are always issued from the date of offence, this is to stop people delaying a hearing to avoid amassing totting up points, as would have happened in your case.

I am not un-sympathetic, as in this day of camera policing, it is all too easy for people to gain points for petty offences and 6-12 points hardly makes one a bad driver.

[wolvoman]

Points on my licence - 0, and have never had any in 26 years of driving, same with DH

It took me 7 test attempts and over 2 years of lessons to pass so I've made damn sure I keep my licence. If my phone goes, I don't answer it: I pull into a side street, services or whatever and hit "missed calls" then return the call. I've got 3 kids and elderly mum & MIL but no call is so important that it can't wait a few mins till I park up.

Don't want to come across as pious and holier-than-thou: I drink, eat too much, sometimes say stuff that upsets people etc etc-but I always treat driving with the respect it deserves - a mistake behind the wheel can cost lives and destroy families.

My turn to be pious. If you can't pass your test in the first couple of attempts you're really not cut out for it and shouldn't be on the road.

[wolvoman]

Why should he appeal when he was on his phone? I don't see the point in wasting court time, and giving yourself yet more costs. Pay the fine, move on and don't make the same mistake again. There's no point appealing for the sake of appealing when you were in the wrong anyway.

Why go to court at all? After all the police could just hand out bans at the roadside.

Come to think of it, why bother having legal trials at all.

Everyone has a right to a defence, it's what separates a decent country from tyranny. In the end in this case justice was done - why do you still feel you have a point to prove?

[wolvoman]

Well if your gonna break the law dont be supprised when you get caught.

I am not saying I have never done anything wrong but difference is when I get caught for it I hold my hands up and say yeah yeah am bad.

We all know the risks when we do something wrong, if he was on 3 points already and needs his license for his job and to look after him family, then he should have took that into consideration before he went ahead and did a phone call while driving.

If your gonna break the rules dont cry when you get caught and dont start claiming oh but I am special I should get away with it.

And can you categorically say that faced with a similar situation as described by the OP that you would react differently? I mean 100%?

Because if you can, you are a mighty driver and I bow down to your ability to control any given situation, no matter how difficult.

Of course the reality is that your only capability is being 'holier than thou' on on an internet forum.

[anewman]

Why go to court at all? After all the police could just hand out bans at the roadside.

Come to think of it, why bother having legal trials at all.

Everyone has a right to a defence, it's what separates a decent country from tyranny. In the end in this case justice was done - why do you still feel you have a point to prove?

When the guilt is certain there's little you can do about it. I could understand if the appeal was "the police officer saw me scratching my ear and I happened to have my mobile phone in my lap but I never touched it" then I could understand - but "I am guilty, please pretty please let me off, I'll be good in future although I did something else wrong in the two years previously". If someone caught using a mobile phone to make a call wants to appeal, we'll have to let Ian Huntley have his day in an appeal court then. Some things are worth appealing about, others not.

[zeon999]

And can you categorically say that faced with a similar situation as described by the OP that you would react differently? I mean 100%?

Because if you can, you are a mighty driver and I bow down to your ability to control any given situation, no matter how difficult.

Of course the reality is that your only capability is being 'holier than thou' on on an internet forum.

Yeah cos it is so hard to not drive while using a mobile phone, however would I of done it?

If the guy had been caught for speeding by a few mph to get his second set of points then I would have had a little sympathy, as speeding by a few mph is easy done but come on you know if you drive while using a mobile phone you stand a chance of being caught and getting points which if you on your last chance you should take more care.

If he was on the phone and started driving why did he start driving?

If he was driving and he started a phone call, they why?

There is no excuse for either of these, I have no sympahy in the slightest for him.

I am no angel either and dont want to sound like one, I used to drive like an absolute loon before I had my last accident which left me in a state when I could not drive anymore and I have been in trouble with the law for more serious things than motoring offeces, difference was I did not cry like a baby about it saying oh but I am different I should be let of cos I am so special with special cercumstances.

If you do wrong then you know the risks and should just take the punishment when it comes.

[wolvoman]

If he was on the phone and started driving why did he start driving?

If he was driving and he started a phone call, they why?

Have you actually read all of the account from the OP, or do you feel you don't need to?

The OP said that her son was already on a call using handsfree when that unit died and he immediately switched to handheld, during a call to the police and whilst on a part of a road that is very difficult to stop on (Elephant & Castle, if that means anything to you).
I've never got any points on my licence, but I can still see that such a scenario could happen to me. I'd like to think I'd behave differently but it COULD happen.

In my opinion, because there were some mitigating circumstances, it was worth contesting. In the end his protests were deemed to not have enough significance and 3 points were still applied.

1. Offence carried out.
2. Evidence of prosecution heard in court.
3. Evidence of defence heard in court.
4. Guilt decided by court.
5. Justice done.

For goodness sake, where is the big deal here?

[diamond dave]

sorry wendfd but as a cyclist i have no sympathy with your predicament - so many times have I almost been hit by people on mobiles. Only by the grace of God have I avoided an accident. Please think of other road users especially the parents/family of the lad who was recently killed by someone using a mobile phone.

[wolvoman]

sorry wendfd but as a cyclist i have no sympathy with your predicament - so many times have I almost been hit by people on mobiles. Only by the grace of God have I avoided an accident. Please think of other road users especially the parents/family of the lad who was recently killed by someone using a mobile phone.

I cycle too and similarly have had incidents with drivers using mobiles.
I've also had incidents with drivers dealing with their kids, smoking cigarettes, driving too slow in my way and so on. It's not just phones.