Need Advice - First Offence

[ispartacus75]

Got pulled over by the police on Friday as the insurance had lapsed on my car in January and we hadnt realised.

We moved house in late November and everything was in boxes, some still is.

The car was seized by the police. We returned home via other means and set up a new insurance policy within 3 hours.

Obviously its going to go before a magistrate, but im just wondering what I am looking at in terms of points and a fine?

[shengen]

when it goes to court you could reasonably expect about £300 fine plus 5 points and no insurance is usually an automatic ban unless extenuating circumstances like looking after sick granny 20 miles away and no buses

[dawnydee73]

Having no insurance is not an automatic ban you will get 6 - 8 points on your license, however if you are still in your 2 year probation your license will be revoked and you have to go back to a provisional, not sure how much the fine will be

[James&Shell]

The only thing i can see is that the judge might be lenient(sp?) if it ran out a couple of eeks after not 6 Months though!

[Altarf]

We returned home via other means and set up a new insurance policy within 3 hours.

And you did tell the new insurance company that you were in the process of being prosecuted for driving with no insurance, otherwise...

[ispartacus75]

Licence held for 15 years so no probation period.

Didnt inform new insurance as it only asks if I have been convicted of any motoring offence. Doesnt ask if I have any pending. And as this all happened on Friday all I have so far is a notice of seizure, there is nothing to yet say that I WILL be prosecuted, though we all know I probably will.

[david29dpo]

best to let the insurance company know NOW! you will not be covered if anything else happens.

[firesidemaid]

i know it is quite a while to let it lapse, but if you have never had any driving offences previously, or other offences and have always had a good insurance record, you might be able to ask for leniency.

[ispartacus75]

best to let the insurance company know NOW! you will not be covered if anything else happens.

But what am I supposed to tell them? I might be prosecuted some time in the next year? I might get points on my licence?

How far do I take it? I might develop an eyesight problem in the next year so thought I would tell you now? I might change my job in the next year?

[Conor]

Wait until you get prosecuted.

[david29dpo]

But what am I supposed to tell them? I might be prosecuted some time in the next year? I might get points on my licence?

How far do I take it? I might develop an eyesight problem in the next year so thought I would tell you now? I might change my job in the next year?

You tell them things that are relevant to car insurance. All what you have said above are, you may get points, you may develop an eyesight problem, you may change your job, but NOT until it happens!!!! Having no insurance HAS happened. It may not increase your premium yet but it is in your best interests to tell them how. Insurance companies are experts at getting out of paying out if they can, if you say nothing and you ran in to the back of a Ferrari, it is highly likely they will not pay out.

[montypython]

If you have to make any claim through your new insurance they will ask to see your driving licence. You will be getting points for no insurance no matter how lenient they are.

The date of the points on your licence will be the date you were stopped by the police, Before you took out this new insurance.

Try explaining to the new insurance company why they were not imformed about these points earlier. You would be giving the insurers an easy get out from paying any claim.

Also if i'm not mistaken one of the questions on an insurance proposal is do you have any prosecutions pending?

Let your new insurers know now you're in enough trouble without trying to hide this.

[ispartacus75]

If you have to make any claim through your new insurance they will ask to see your driving licence. You will be getting points for no insurance no matter how lenient they are.

The date of the points on your licence will be the date you were stopped by the police, Before you took out this new insurance.

Try explaining to the new insurance company why they were not imformed about these points earlier

Simple, at the time of applying for the insurance there were no points on my licence, these were applied to my licence after the insurance had been paid for.


The only question I was asked regarding convictions, pending or otherwise, is have you been convicted of a motoring offence in the last 5 years.

As I have not been convicted of anything I couldnt answer yes.

We know that it may go to court and I may get points on my licence. But we dont know how many, and we dont even know if it will go to court. They may simply run out of time to prosecute me (its happened before on a different matter).

What if I told the insurance I was getting 8 points at some time in the future and only got 6? Would the insurance company give me some of the premium back based on overcharging me through excess points?

Surely the same would apply to being flashed my a roadside camera. Would anyone ring up the insurance company to tell them that they had been flashed without knowing if anything was going to happen because of it?

Let me point out, Im not suggesting I will never tell the insurance company about the points, but surely it would be better to wait until I know the facts instead of guessing them?

[dawnydee73]

Try explaining to the new insurance company why they were not imformed about these points earlier. You would be giving the insurers an easy get out from paying any claim.


It does say on the licence the date of conviction and the date of the offence.

[asea]

But what am I supposed to tell them? I might be prosecuted some time in the next year? I might get points on my licence?

How far do I take it? I might develop an eyesight problem in the next year so thought I would tell you now? I might change my job in the next year?

you should tell them exactly that or you will be violating the principle of 'Utmost Good Faith' if you have information (or indeed if the insurance company has information) which is relevent to you and your circumstances relating to driving & your car then you must tell them. The eyesight problem is moot and completely irrelevant to this point. If you have a reason to expect your eyesight to go downhill then yes, you'd have to tell them.

[ispartacus75]

My eyesight may or may not go downhill over the next 12 months for any number of reasons. Ill health, physical attack, anything. But I cant predict which if any are likely to happen.

Likewise I may get 6 points, I may get 7 points, I may get 8 points, I may get let off if it takes too long to bring the case to court. Again I cant predict which is likely to happen, so how can I reasonably and in 'Utmost Good Faith' try to tell anyone else what will happen?

If I ring my insurance company now and tell them that I am getting 6 points on my licence and a £500 fine I would be lying, and that WILL make my insurance null and void.

[montypython]

Please find below an extract from a proposal form from a well known insurer this is the most common question asked:

"Have you had any motoring convictions, including fixed penalty convictions or have you any pending prosecutions"

Check your copy of the proposal from or statement of facts see exactly what it states.

All i'm saying is dont give your insurer an excuse not to pay out any future claims. Be honest with them tell them what happened, tell them at the moment you dont have any points and do not know if they will prosecute. At least then they can never say you did not inform them

[vikingaero]

I would tend to concur with monty. Most insurers word their application forms very precisely and I'd be surprised to hear of any insurer that only asked for convictions only and not pending cases. Double check?

[C_Ronaldo]

If i was in the OPs position id tell the insurer just to b on the safe side

[asea]

My eyesight may or may not go downhill over the next 12 months for any number of reasons. Ill health, physical attack, anything. But I cant predict which if any are likely to happen.

Likewise I may get 6 points, I may get 7 points, I may get 8 points, I may get let off if it takes too long to bring the case to court. Again I cant predict which is likely to happen, so how can I reasonably and in 'Utmost Good Faith' try to tell anyone else what will happen?

If I ring my insurance company now and tell them that I am getting 6 points on my licence and a £500 fine I would be lying, and that WILL make my insurance null and void.

I haven't told you to do that at all - just to tell the truth. It's relevant information that you have that you need to tell them. Nobody is telling you to lie. Quite the opposite. Where have I told you to tell them about points? You need to tell them that you are being prosecuted for having no insurance.

I work for an insurance company & we throw out thousands of insurance claims after carefully checking out claims (although I work in a completely different branch to Motor insurance, but the principles are the same)

Why DON'T you want to tell them? You will have to in the end anyway! Anyway it's your business & it will be you that has to suffer the consequences, am just trying to help those consequences be less painful for you - you do what you want to do!

[MrsTine]

Inform them of what happened, that way you have covered your butt... You can't tell them how many points or what the fine is yet and they will no doubt be used to that.
Now I knwo this is like bolting the door after the horse is gone but why don't you use Martins tart alert text service for your insurance and tax? I do - ok I know they will probably send me reminders, but if it doesn't get here then it's my responcibility to make sure my car is covered. Tax especially...
I know I know... hindsight... :)
But also explain to the judge that you have already taken steps to ensure this is never ever gonna happen again, it was an oversight on your part, you're INCREDIBLY sorry - you're a respectable member of the community etc etc

Good luck

[diesel9181]

my mum got done with no insurance. every renewal the insurance took the money and it continued for the next year, until they stopped trading! it was 6 months before she relised she wasnt insured, then she told teh police!!! it was 6 points and £150 fine, think the new insurance company charged a bit more too!

[MrSmartprice]

If you didn't declare something relevant, like a pending prosecution for no insurance, they certainly will declare your policy void, and you would effectively still be driving about with no insurance. It's no good playing with words here, the insurance companies require you to declare anything relevant even if they don't specifically ask for it. This is as relevant as it gets.

What may happen is that they will decline to insure you on the terms they quoted and up the premium. Or decline completely. But I guarantee there will be a lot more grief if you say nothing.

The situation when you get to court is fairly clear cut. The magistrates have little discretion regarding the penalty. If you have no current points they will almost certainly give you six. A fine of around £500, give or take depending on circumstances, will be the norm. But if you get done a second time you will get a disqualification as you will have at least 12 points.

When I was a TSO I used to prosecute private hire drivers for plying for hire. It also invalidated their insurance as they were only covered for booked journeys. Although they tried every excuse under the sun, (sometimes almost accompanied by violins:rolleyes:) it never made any difference. I can only assure you that forgetting to renew for 6 months will not be regarded as a reason for leniency. Sadly the opposite is likely to be true.

[ispartacus75]

I can only assure you that forgetting to renew for 6 months will not be regarded as a reason for leniency. Sadly the opposite is likely to be true.

It wasnt a case of forgetting to renew, the policy was taken out in the October I think.

Apparently a DD didnt get paid in January, the insurance company say they informed us, but we didnt get anything.

As we had moved house shortly before everything was up in the air with money going out for all sorts of stuff for the new house and we simply didnt realise that the DD hadnt been paid.

I have now added the DD dates for my new policy to my Outlook Calendar so I can cross reference when they are due to come out.

[montypython]

Ok mistakes happen and getting caught out is unfortunately going to cost you some points and some pounds.

Please though listen to the advice given, speak to your new insurers and give them the details.

Once is a mistake risking a second offence would be foolish

[ispartacus75]

Update.

Car seized last Friday. (Police rang insurance company to confirm policy had expired)

Car re-insured last Friday.

Bought new car Saturday. Insured new car Saturday.

New car insurance documents arrive today. Old car insurance documents still havent arrived.

Phoned insurance company who are now sending them out for Monday on special delivery.

Spoke to Police as I was supposed to show them ACTUAL certificate of insurance by 1.30 today.

They have said they will wait till 1.30 Monday before crushing the car.

If my documents havent arrived by then I lose the car.

I have already confirmed that the insurance company could fax me through a copy and the police could ring to verify, but they wont accept that. They will only accept the original and will not ring an insurance company to verify.

Thats funny as they had no problem ringing the insurance company at the roadside to confirm that I wasnt insured.

Sick of it.