Lodgers

[pollyanna24]

How much would you charge close friends and family? We have a friend and my bf brother living with us and they give us £320 (combined). I know this is a ridiculously low amount as I pay for their food and cook it too and they have run of washing powder, loo roll etc.

BF has finally accepted that this is too low and wants to put their rent up by £70 each. This is still way below market rate in my opinion, but I get called a money grabbing *** for wanting more. He says they are friends and family and we are supposed to be helping them. But for how much and at what cost? Me and bf are constantly arguing over the amount they pay.

[Sus1e]

I would sit down and work out what your bills are (including mortgage) and split the lot by 4 - fair and easy

[liney]

The going rate in my area is £50 pw week room only. My brother pays £75 per week including bills but not food: this includes BB and full Sky package.

I would remind your boyfriend that the favour is letting them stay, and you didnt agree to subsidise them too.

[groatie queen]

Difficult for you when they are close. I have a lodger but she responded to an ad in the paper. She pays me £330 pcm all in, cooks her own food, but this amount covers all utilities inc phone, detergent for w machine, loo paper, cleaning materials. She has a generous amount of space, two rooms to herself on the upper floor, a sitting room and a bedroom - the best in the house. There are just the two of us here. She also gets the use of the garden, barbecue etc if she wants.

I think as well as cost of bills plus food, you should be factoring in something for your time and effort in having their food bought and meals cooked!! Or you should ask them to buy and cook their own food.

Also, if you have more than one lodger, be aware you are liable for tax on the income - the Government's Rent-A-Room scheme only allows you one lodger tax-free. So you'll need to factor the tax in too.

When you say you and your partner have arguments about it, who is reluctant to charge them a more realistic rent? I think they are underpaying you, even at the proposed new rate - you've given up privacy too, which has a value.

[pollyanna24]

It is him who is reluctant. I want more money!! I agreed to the terms that we started with because I didn't actually believe they were both going to move in. The new terms which which bf wants to implement in three months time (giving them time to get used to it, aww diddums!) is also going to include that he wants them gone by this time next year.

I don't actually want them to go, but as much as I thought I was doing them a favour when I let them stay, I also thought, great, I great to overpay on the mortgage and save a bit of money cos in a couple of years, that money will come in handy when I have two kids and no spare bedrooms! But it's not working out that way!

I don't expect them to pay the mortgage, and I have worked out what their share of the bills would be £130 (the brother isn't even paying this much at the moment, so effectively we are paying for him to live with us, the friend is paying the equivalent of £18 a week). Sometimes they have to share a room though, which can't be nice, but it is a big room.

Our mortgage is £1,000 and we chose to take that out, so can't really expect them to pay for that!

[Hotspur]

It's not easy helping friends sometimes.

I helped out some good friends last year for a couple of months while they were waiting to move to Scotland. I had no idea what to charge them so asked what they thought was reasonable and they came up with £75 per week for them both inclusive of council tax, elec & gas. They also got and prepared their own meals. They got their own room and bathroom and use of the rest of the house. I agreed to the £75 as it was a short term let, I think the commercial rents usually work out at more when you include all bills. It was strange, initially, taking money from them though.

They looked at renting a house but couldn't get a let of less than 6 months ande it would have been c. £500 a month anyway. We all won in the end even if they did stop for 4 months when things didn't go to plan with the purchase.

It is only reasonable to pay a fair share of the bills (excluding mortgage) if you are stoping anywhere for a period of time and if I would you I'd have a periodic review of where this is going.

Even with good friends they are lodgers and perhaps, if they are stopping months, they should have a rent book and all the safeguards that go with that for all concerned, just in case.

[pollyanna24]

I think my bf has finally come around to my point of view. A "family" meeting is going to be called for Saturday and we are going to up their rent by £100 each in three months time. He thinks this is too much, but he has spoken to his boss about it who thinks this is fair (I can only assume he listened to his boss more than me as he thinks I am money money and his boss is objective).

If they don't like this, they can start looking elsewhere, but I know for sure that they won't find anything cheaper, or if they do, it will be grotty and they won't get their dinner put on the table each night!

[Dan Thunder]

Why 3 months!? Just sit them down and tell them that your £1000pm mortgage is now nearer £1300pm because you're having to subsidise them.

Therefore they can either pay the extra money starting from next month or, if they can't afford that, I'd tell them to find somewhere else to stay.

It's ridiculous to give them a 3 month grace period. Why should you and your partner basically flush £500+ down the toilet just so they can get used to the notion of paying more rent!

[pollyanna24]

Gosh, I love you people!! People who actually see things from my point of view! If I try and get them to pay next month, there will be uproar. I am willing to give them some grace, maybe till 1st September.

One of the main reasons I was getting so het up about it all was because the friend isn't even working, and doesn't seem to be doing much about getting work. Although, I tell ya what, if I was living off my friends for £200 a month, I prob wouldn't get a job either!

What also bugs me is that they think we are rich because of this £320. They simply see it as extra money in our back pocket. Ooh, I'm getting all irate about it again, must calm down!!

[Dan Thunder]

If I were you I'd fish out some bills for rates/food etc before this 'meeting'. I'd then write down how much it's costing you and your partner to house these two.

Show them the list and explain to them that far from giving you extra pocket money you are, in essence, paying for them to live with you, which is just ridiculous!

[pollyanna24]

I do have a wad of notes for this meeting, stating our bills and why I think it's fair that they should pay a bit more. I think I might also print this thread off for them to read.

I think I've decided they can be up in arms about it all they want. If they want to move out because of what we said, then I'll get another lodger in, who pays me more than what the two of them are at the moment, and who will buy his own food and who will cook his own dinner!

[Dan Thunder]

Well exactly, tell them you've had an interested party inquiring as to whether they can rent your room! £40 a week won't even cover the cost of the room alone in 99% of the country never mind food, gas, electricity, etc etc.

Also, is this the same 18yo brother you've moaned about in those other threads?

[pollyanna24]

Aah, yes, goodness you do keep track. It is the one and the same. I didn't want to mention ages because people might feel sorry for him as he is young, but he has been working a full time job for 2 years now and I am not his mother!

[pollyanna24]

PS Like the word "moaned," I'm very good at it!!! :D

[Bean Counter]

There is another 'cost' that no-one has mentioned yet.

Since I presume that you are letting out two rooms in your house, you will not be entitled to the full private residence relief from capital gains tax when you come to sell your house in the future. Hence they will be causing you a potential tax bill in later life (OK it might be covered by allowances in the future.)

This might seem an age away now and irrelevant, but if no-one tells you, you'll never know.

See the link below if you want more details (bottom right hand corner of page 1):

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pdfs/1999_00/helpsheets/ir283.pdf

[nats3006]

Tell them to get there own place and then they wouldnt argue how much they paid! :D

[pinkshoes]

Well if you're paying for their food, bills, rent etc... then I think it would be reasonable to charge them £300 each per month.

Maybe look at the cost of renting a room in a shared house locally, then charge them the same. This way they're getting a really good deal, because they get all their food and bills included too!

I think 2 months notice is enough for this higher rate. They can bicker all they want about it, but i'm guessing they won't find anything even remotely cheaper!?!?! Don't feel bad, because it IS your home!

[groatie queen]

I should add to my previous post that my lodger thinks that £330 all in is an absolute bargain - all she has to factor in is her food to her monthly budget. Your lodgers don't even have to do that! If she only had the sole use of one room, I'd put the rent down to £300. This is a rural area, by the way, not Edinburgh or Glasgow, so priced a bit below city prices.

By all means print off this thread for your discussion, they may then realise you've been underpaid and therefore effectively subsidising them - which certainly isn't fair or reasonable.

[groatie queen]

PS

Good luck with the discussion, and let us know how it goes!

[groatie queen]

Hi Polyyanna

How did the discussion go?

[Dan Thunder]

It's not 'til Saturday.

[poppyscorner]

Hi just wanted to say good luck to you.
I don't think you are money grabbing I think they are a couple of !!!!!!!!!!s you shouldn't be paying for them to live in your home your bf should be supporting you on this not criticising you for expecting them to pay their fair share.
Show them exactly what you have to pay out and is there any chance you could pick up some details of local properties or rooms for rent then you can always say if you don't like it here is the alternative not nasty but may help them get it into perspective.
I do think it needs sorting though as its something that is gonna cause resentment and that aint good for you and your bf you have enough bills of your own without paying other peoples.
Good luck!!
Poppy

[pollyanna24]

Haven't even told them about the "meeting" yet, and I must admit I am not looking forward to it. I can just see their jaws drop. But there comes a point when me and bf have to think about ourselves too. Why should we be penalised and have to subsidise them because we were sensible and saved money since we got together at 18 to buy a house? Although they will think we are greedy, we have a 3 bed room and why shouldn't we make a bit of money to help pay the mortgage?!

It has been causing major tensions between me and bf cos "it's all I go on about apparently and why did I agree to the lodgers if I was going to be like this?!" etc etc. But things should be a lot more smoother and I won't be monitoring how many cups of coffee they drink, and how many times they put the washing machine on etc, and won't whinge so much when they leave the shed light on (why do they need a light on in the shed when we are all in the house?!!!!!)

Me and bf still haven't decided on a figure, I'm sticking to my guns about £100 extra each. Think we will tell them either tonight or tomorrow.

Eeek!!!

EDIT: One extra point my bf was going on about was that we are supposed to be helping them out. But we are, aren't we, by letting them stay? They have full time jobs (or are perfectly capable of getting one), haven't been through a terrible family crisis, so there is no reason why they shouldn't be paying their way, is there? Why does helping them out have to mean they get away with paying not much simply because they are friends and family?

[BettyDebt]

Your argument in return - you HAVE helped them out with reduced rent so far and you've been footing the bill. They've had enough time to get on their feet and now its time for you to get together some money for your future plans. Do you think they will be there with the mortgage repayments when baby comes along or your need money? You think people will but not many do!

[paddy's mum]

In a post much earlier in this thread you commented that it was nice to find people who agreed with you. You've missed the point! They are not agreeing with you because it's you. They are agreeing, all these people, many of them perfect strangers, because they can see that what you are suggesting is FAIR - no other reason!

Good luck with the imminent family sort out and if it becomes hard going, just ask them to find the lodgings where YOU can get all that for the peanuts a month they are currently paying. If they can find such a cushy number, you of course will sell your house, bank the money and live the life of Riley!

[pollyanna24]

Thanks everyone for all your replies. For all I know, we could walk in there tonight, mention it to them and they go, "Yeah, fine okay." So maybe I'm worrying about nothing!

[pollyanna24]

Well, we had the meeting, but it didn't come out the way it was intended.

I was having a bit of a row with the friend about the food situation and bf heard this, so decided to have the meeting there and then on Friday. He got the two of them in the kitchen and just told them their rent was going up. He's a lot more tactful than me, apologised, said our costs were going up etc. and that we were trying to help out, but we were putting our hands in our own pockets etc. and that this was supposed to be a chance for us as well. I jumped in occasionally, but I'm rude when I get angry and I was already hepped up, so mainly let him do the talking.

Brother was fine about it. He could see where we were coming from and had already been looking in papers for somewhere else as he thinks he is a burden to us. He knows how much it much it is elsewhere and is grateful for what we do.

Friend, on the other hand, looked really cheesed off and said it changed a few things for him (not towards us, but his money situation - get a bloody job then!). But accepted that he has to pay more. He did try and get out of it though, cheeky so and so. Said he didn't have dinner 2 days a week, so why did he have to pay so much? Oooh, that almost started me off again. I just said, anywhere else, you'd have to pay what we want to charge you and more, buy your own food, and lo and behold, cook it too!!!

[Justie]

well at least it's been said and it sounds like the brother at least knows he's been on a good thing! I'm sure the friend will too he was probably just on the defensive as he was faced with it.

Hope things now settle down between you and your BF as that's got to be the priority :beer:

[seven-day-weekend]

The lodgers who live with my son in my house in the UK pay £300 pcm (for a double room) and £236 pcm (for a large single room). This includes all the bills apart from food.

There is one bathroom in the house which all three of them have to share.
They can use the telephone to make calls providing they have our son's permission (calls to mobiles are barred). They also have (shared) a sitting room, dining room, kitchen, cellar for storage, workshop for hobbies (they are all Games Workshop addicts), and a nice garden which they don't even have to maintain. They have Virgin Media TV and wireless broadband.

This may give you some idea of what to charge your 'lodgers', who seem to be paying around half of what is fair to you and them.

[Dan Thunder]

Well, we had the meeting, but it didn't come out the way it was intended.

I was having a bit of a row with the friend about the food situation and bf heard this, so decided to have the meeting there and then on Friday. He got the two of them in the kitchen and just told them their rent was going up. He's a lot more tactful than me, apologised, said our costs were going up etc. and that we were trying to help out, but we were putting our hands in our own pockets etc. and that this was supposed to be a chance for us as well. I jumped in occasionally, but I'm rude when I get angry and I was already hepped up, so mainly let him do the talking.

Brother was fine about it. He could see where we were coming from and had already been looking in papers for somewhere else as he thinks he is a burden to us. He knows how much it much it is elsewhere and is grateful for what we do.

Friend, on the other hand, looked really cheesed off and said it changed a few things for him (not towards us, but his money situation - get a bloody job then!). But accepted that he has to pay more. He did try and get out of it though, cheeky so and so. Said he didn't have dinner 2 days a week, so why did he have to pay so much? Oooh, that almost started me off again. I just said, anywhere else, you'd have to pay what we want to charge you and more, buy your own food, and lo and behold, cook it too!!!

Congrats though! It's often the hardest thing to do, giving people 'bad' news. At least the hard bit's over and done with now (hopefully!).