The Great 'Medical Tourism' Hunt [Archive] - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums

pigeonpie

30-05-2007, 11:31 AM

Can second that dental treatment in SA is good. A root canal there was R1400 in 2004 (divvy by 13) - prob a bit more now. Most dentists do not have the most up to date Xray scanners (but can refer you for one) but other than that, the standard is generally very good. One tip - I've heard of the 'UK visitor' price being different from that charged to locals on medical aid schemes so ask a SAfrican to check first.

I can vouch for the french health system being generally excellent, however I'm not sure whether Brits are entitled to travel to France specifically to have treatment as private treatment there is not allowed (as yet: watch Sarko...!).
But if you live there for eg, a specialist appointment with ultrasound cost me 28€. The same here in London cost £175 for 20 mins with a rude bow tied consultant and a further £185 for the ultrasound.
Which raises one question about those going private abroad for tests btw - one French dr would not release his scans to me to take (they belong to his state practice) and the English drs would not take his word/patient's word on the results.
Also if they prescribe a drug, I have found English GPs refuse to believe/follow the french GP's prescription; in fact there were many very childish anti-french comments which were absurd. Plus dosages can be different in other countries in Europe. I even had one NHS GP say to me that the french "follow a different care pathway".
Bottom line imho make sure your dr is happy for you to go and will accept the results done by 'foreign drs'.

Dan Gliebitz

30-05-2007, 12:14 PM

I can confirm that dentistry in Hungary is of a very high standard and represents good value for money. Last year, I had extensive cosmetic dentistry carried out by Kreativ Dental (http://www.kreativdent.co.uk) in Budapest. I had been quoted in excess of £20k to have the work carried out in the UK, total price in Budapest (including return flights and hotels) was around £6k. Kreativ also arranged hotels, transfers to & from Budapest airport and even a free public transport pass during the stay. Easyjet flights from Luton for about £30 return. There were some downsides - I had to use a lot of annual leave, a total of 4 visits each lasting between 3 and 5 days. Lots of time hanging around, but Budapest is a lovely city and very cheap. A year on, I've had no problems and my own dentist has been very complimentary about the standard of the work.

Sterling_geezer

30-05-2007, 2:23 PM

Heres a few bits of advice from a GP.

If you go abroad go to an English speaking country (or at the last make sure any correspondance/reports/Xrays etc are in English). Nothing worse than seeing a patient who has had an operation abroad, develops complications and then the GP has no idea whats going on as all the letters are in Spanish.

Speak to your GP first, they can advise you about what to expect, potential complications etc..

Makes sure you get enough painkillers afterwards ( and you might need a letter for airport security if they give codeine base painkillers)

Make sure you let your GP know what you had done so its in your medical record (it may or may be relevant if you develop problems in the future)

Do your research! Do you know anyone who has had the operation? What are their complication rates, post-op follow up etc..

Depending on what op you have you may be entitled to reimbursement from the Primary Care Trust if you had to go abroad because the waiting list was too long (don't hold your breath though as they are very tight with the cash)

Hope that helps!
&
Good luck.

Coll1976

30-05-2007, 2:44 PM

I had a tummy tuck in Spain with a company called Mills and Mills run by a British couple. The hospital used to be Sophia Loren's house and was a wonderful place to have the operation. I had a British woman called Louise looking after me for the 10 days I was out there and am still emailing her now over 6 months on. The whole package came in below £5000 and included a UK consultation with the surgeon who was to do my op, my return flight, the tummy tuck and liposuction, and 10 days accomodation. I paid for 3 extra plane tickets and we had a family holiday too! The accomodation was great, the whole experience was great, and the people were friendly and helpful, something I fear I would not have experienced had I been in the UK (and I would have paid a lot more for the privelage!). Oh and I had post op check ups for 6 months when I returned home. I wouldn't hesitate to go abroad in the future, and Spain is only an hours flight away, so I would probably get there quicker than I would get to London! I think they do dentistry there too!

feesh

30-05-2007, 5:56 PM

If anyone is interested in hip resurfacing, which is a much less invasive alternative to a hip replacement (it doesn't involve amputation of the femur, it allows you to be a LOT more active as there are no post-op restrictions, and it should also last longer and be a lot easier to replace) then you might want to look on http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/surfacehippy/

I have been lucky enough to have it offered privately in England, and there are many wonderful NHS surgeons doing it now, but I understand that in some PCT areas, the NHS is not able to offer it.

A lot of the Americans on the above forum go to Drs De Smet (Belgium) or Bose (India) to have it done, De Smet and Bose being 2 of the best hip doctors in the world. The general advice from the forum is that surgery with Bose costs about £6,000 and slightly higher with De Smet, and that the medical tourism companies which offer complete packages are to be avoided, as you can do it all a lot cheaper yourself.

If you want it done, definitely join the surfacehippy Yahoo group, as you will learn a LOT! There is also a similar British group called 'hipsrus'

Fingers crossed for my own op in August (thankfully I only have to go as far as Brum!)

yogayogi

30-05-2007, 6:03 PM

I developed a prostate problem which needed surgery and had a TURP operation in Singapore. Couldn't recommend them more highly.

Arrived Sunday, saw the consultant Monday, in hospital having the operation Tuesday, couple of days in a private room followed by ten days convalescence in a nice hotel in a fascinating country. Even including the airfares & hotel, much cheaper than the UK - and no waiting!

All the personnel were fluent in English. Lots of attentive staff in the hospital. The (Singaporean) consultant/surgeon qualified FRCS in London & Glasgow! No UK red tape - during the consultation the surgeon had his secretary phoning around to see which hospital still had space in their operating rooms that week. His attitude was "it will take an hour whether we do it tomorrow or next week, so if there's space let's do it tomorrow". No writing letters back and forth over weeks like in the UK.

An added bonus: these guys are used to cutting up Asians - who usually have much smaller bodies than Europeans. As they are used to having to work very precisely on Asians' smaller organs, our larger bodies are a piece of cake. Meaning excellent results.

How to have confidence in an unknown hospital? Look for hospitals with accreditation from the Joint Commission International (JCI), the international arm of the body that accredits American hospitals.

Anything I need in the future (and cannot get promptly on the NHS) I'll be straight on a plane back there!

yogayogi

30-05-2007, 6:07 PM

With acknowledgement to the Economist have a look at this excellent recent article on the subject. Subscriptions available at Economist.com

Medical tourism
Sun, sand and scalpels

Mar 8th 2007 | BANGKOK
From The Economist print edition
Soaring health-care costs in the rich world offer Asian firms an opportunity

AMERICA'S soaring health-care costs, already $2 trillion a year, are predicted to double in the coming decade. Dissatisfaction with the rocketing price of care will only get worse as demanding and health-conscious “baby-boomers” hit retirement and start to suffer the costly ailments of old age.

In countries like Britain and Canada, with supposedly universal coverage, state spending is not keeping up with growing demand, so patients face long and agonising waits for operations. And in the prosperous bits of Asia and the Middle East growing numbers of people are rich enough to demand high-quality medical care that they cannot get locally.

All this presents a fantastic business opportunity for those Asian countries, principally Thailand, Singapore and India, which have excellent private hospitals that are used to treating foreigners and where costs are a fraction of those in rich countries. “Medical tourism” is booming as patients look abroad for cheap, fast treatment, often combined with a holiday afterwards. Josef Woodman, the author of “Patients Beyond Borders”, a new guide for those seeking surgery abroad, reckons that 150,000 Americans did so last year, and predicts the numbers will double this year.

Booming demand is encouraging rapid expansion at big stockmarket-listed hospital operators such as Thailand's Bumrungrad and Bangkok Dusit, Singapore's Parkway and Pacific Healthcare and India's Apollo Hospitals. This week Pacific Healthcare said it would build seven medical centres across Asia. Bumrungrad, which treated 430,000 non-Thais last year, has just expanded its Bangkok hospital and is setting up in the Philippines and Dubai.

Singapore is more expensive than Thailand, but still far cheaper than America. Goh Jin Hian, the head of Parkway's Gleneagles Hospital, says Singapore should try to compete for the most complex treatments, leaving cosmetic surgery and other price-sensitive operations to lower-cost rivals such as Thailand. Nevertheless, like the Thai hospital operators, he is sure the medical-travel boom will provide plenty of foreign patients for them all.

Mr Woodman reckons that today's boom is just the start. So far, most medical tourists pay their own way. But the Asian hospital operators are now courting American health insurers and employers desperate to rein in soaring costs. Bumrungrad's marketing chief, Ruben Toral, who was in America this week for talks with insurers and big employers, says they were very keen. BlueCross BlueShield of South Carolina already offers Bumrungrad's cut-price treatments to members whose policies do not cover the surgery they need.

To reassure foreign patients, many hospitals are seeking accreditation from the Joint Commission International (JCI), the international arm of the body that accredits American hospitals. Thailand's Bumrungrad and nine Singaporean hospitals already have JCI certificates. Raymond Chong, the boss of Bangkok Dusit's Samitivej Hospital, reckons it will be only a year or two before big American insurers and employers routinely offer patients lower premiums if they are prepared to travel to a foreign JCI-accredited hospital for surgery.

For patients, employers and insurers the benefits are clear. But the hospital operators are bracing themselves for a backlash from the rich countries' medical vested interests whose jobs are, in effect, being outsourced. Expect much shroud-waving from doctors' associations and health-care unions as they highlight the few cases of foreign surgery that go wrong—as though such a thing never happens back home.

woolybully

30-05-2007, 7:57 PM

my wife & i visit goa nearly every year & were highly scepticle about using the country's dental system !! how wrong we were.
i was the one who initialy "tested the water" & what a fantastic result. we were introduced by our taxi driver, & cut a long story short, myself, my wife & my 2 daughters have all attended this dentist with exeptional results (and saved approx £ 7000.00)
the biggest surprise is that my wife hasn't visited a dentist since the law was passed that you can't be anethetised, but this dentist spent 2 hours with her, reassuring her that all would be fine & the result is she can now visit him without any qualms whatsoever.
if anybody is interested he is dr piedade fernandes in cavelossim goa.

greeneye

30-05-2007, 10:32 PM

kitaj

31-05-2007, 12:12 AM

Surely not, Greeneye - how cynical of you...:rotfl: I'm interested in Hungarian dental surgery too, now that all my teeth have crumbled and NHS dentists are non-existent (Thanks Thatch...) I've seen a TV prgramme that said good things about it but I don't know anyone who's actually been so I'd be very grateful for any first hand experiences....

reehsetin

31-05-2007, 12:19 AM

always said use american or brit hospitals abroad because you can usually be sure that they arent buying copy drugs but are buying from the pharmaceutical companies

tinny lizzie

31-05-2007, 8:09 AM

simploerob

31-05-2007, 8:22 AM

my wife is polish so when ever we visit her parents we go to the dentist. lucky for me i have not had to have any work done, but would not hesitate to go there to have it done.

HoneyPhilip

31-05-2007, 8:39 AM

My wife is Filipino and for some while now I have had my eyes tested and bought glasses whenever we go over there - much cheaper - Oakley frames at 'own brand' UK prices. One time we went, it was (tactfully) suggested that I see a dentist about my crooked stained teeth (ex smoker - never bothered me - I don't have to look at them!!). I had not even considered cosmetic dentistry in the UK so have no idea about price, but I had 8 teeth on the bottom and 4 on the top corrected in three seesions ALL PAIN FREE WITH NO ANAESTHETIC (no, I have no idea how that works...) at a total cost of £35. This was 18 months ago, I have had no problems with them, my UK dentist is very impressed by the quality of the work, my Filipino dentist reckons I might need them re-doing in 10 years (big deal!!). Return flight to Manila from the UK costs around £400, and The Philippines is a wonderful country for a holiday.

Denzelpuppy

31-05-2007, 9:40 AM

I have literally just returned this week from Budapest after having extensive dental work carried out which included 3 bridges, 4 veneers toth whitening, and bonded fillings for £3K I was quoted over here in the UK £385 just for one crown as there are no NHS dentists in our area available. I went to "The Implant Centre" in Budapest (www.implantcentre.hu) I was met at the airport, £80 return Easyjet Luton- but Ryan Air will start from nottingham in October) driven to my arptment(£150 for the week and brand new) which they had arranged for me, was collected and returned each and everyday, the clinic had specialist Dr's for various aspects of Dentistry , Maxiofacial surgeons, Implant specialists etc and even a Smile designer, all spoke perfect english, the treatment was A1 the equipment was the best I'd seen and I felt totally at ease and I am a real nervous patient, my treatment was completed within 5 days. It is time these Licensed Bandits posing as Dentists in the UK woke up and smelt the roses and realised they soon wont have a industry, if they dont stop ripping people off 3K in budapest compared to £14K in the UK do the sums it's a no brainer!!!!!

Jaystar

31-05-2007, 11:07 AM

The standards of medical and dental care in South Africa are very high and, given the present exchange rate, very cheap too.
I have relatives in Durban and often have dental work during my visits to them. Another friend of mine had a nose job during a weeks holiday in Cape Town, he was very impressed with the work and spent his recuperation period suntanning on the beach!

Tooth Fairy

31-05-2007, 11:37 AM

I can understand people being sceptical about postings from people who have never posted anything and only just registered (like myself). Being honest here I actually work for Dentistry Abroad (soon to be called Dentistry in Budapest). www.dentistryabroad.co.uk or info@dentistryabroad.co.uk
We send dental patients to Budapest from the UK.
I am not going to go on about how good it is or how it works, however if anybody would like to talk to a few patients who had been there, done that, I can put you in touch with them so you can ask them yourselves. I hope this sounds fair!

Katalin

31-05-2007, 11:41 AM

Hi,

There is one dentistry that is very fair and I do recommend is from the bottom of my heart. Dentistry Travel in Hungary.
www.dentistrytravel.co.uk

Dentistry Travel does consultations and aftercare in London, treatments in Hungary. Prices are very fair compare to others and treatment is proven. Furthermore Dr. Antal Roka is registered with the Association of Dental Implantology in the Uk and the General Dental Council in the Uk - trackable.
There are still good companies that will not take advantage on you.
I had my teeth cleaned and whitened there this weekend.

theredfox

31-05-2007, 12:36 PM

Excellent.

I cant tell you how satisfying I find this thread, because it does several things:

1) Exposes the disgusting prices for these services in rip-off UK.
2) Which is especially pertinent with dentistry
3) Suggesting that these practitioners are very greedy: not content with 50, 60, 70 or 80 thousand a year, they want 100, 150 or more and go private.
4) Helps people really, really sick with rip-off UK to stuff it, go elsewhere, support another economy that probably needs it and
5) Enjoy a holiday at the same time.

More, please, on peoples experiences and knowledge - this is just great!

rac

31-05-2007, 12:58 PM

I too have just returned from Budapest after having extensive dental treatment.

Before travelling, I carefully researched overseas dentists, and, as you might expect, they work out cheaper, in most cases about a third of the UK price, and that includes travel & hotel.

Price however, is not the only consideration.

One of the reasons I chose the company that I did (http://www.dentistabroad.co.uk/)
was that they have a UK clinic.

This is important as any guarantee you are given for the completed work will often contain a clause that you attend the clinic for a check up at least once a year. This would get expensive if the company you choose do not have premises in the UK. This is also useful if you require any minor follow up work.

I would be happy to provide a more detailed account of my experience if anyone requires it, but, suffice to say, I am perfectly happy with the treatment I received.

rac

Toothsmith

31-05-2007, 12:59 PM

It is time these Licensed Bandits posing as Dentists in the UK woke up and smelt the roses and realised they soon wont have a industry, if they dont stop ripping people off 3K in budapest compared to £14K in the UK do the sums it's a no brainer!!!!!

Uk dentists work in UK properties and employ UK staff under UK employment law. We live in the UK pay UK mortgages.

We pay UK prices for equipment and materials and maintain the UK properties using UK builders and services. We have UK regulations to comply to including Waste disposal regulations, minimum wage, health and safety, cross infection control, registration of all dental staff, training to appropriate standards for all staff.

We generally use UK based dental labs for denture, crown and bridgework (Although some trying to remain in the NHS are now sending their labwork overseas for cheaper prices), who employ their technicians under UK employment law, and have to conform to all the UK regulations that govern them.

As you can see from all the different companies that have been linked to here - dental tourism is big business.

That's because it's making somebody an awful lot of money. All the cheap apartments and chauffer driven rides to and from the clinic are paid for by the patient.

The dentists in the eastern european countries are earning a very good living in their own country - but who is looking after their own people?

All the polish dentists who came to this country to fill the gaps in the British NHS did so because their country alledgedly has a 'surplus'. Poland does not have a surplus of dentists - it just deosn't employ all the ones who they qualify. They have a VERY limited state service, so the local population is suffering just the same shortages as this country.

Health tourism is not a win-win situation.

There will be a price to pay somewhere along the line by somebody.

billlew

31-05-2007, 2:09 PM

I've had dentist work done in Goa which saved me thousands of pounds. I had 9 extractions, 2 palettes done for just over £200. This was in December 2005 (all I wanted for Xmas was my 2 front teeth). I had my remaining teeth cleaned and a filling done the following Dec price 500 rupees, just over £6.
I had a crack in my upper palette in March of this year which was replaced free of charge.
So from someone who had a fear of dentists, I can't recommend the dentist I saw highly enough. I had emails on a regular basis afterwards and now I wouldn't dream of not popping in to see him on my 2 annual visits to Goa (what a place to recuperate).
His website is www.mydentistgoa.com

Denzelpuppy

31-05-2007, 2:30 PM

[QUOTE=Toothsmith;5337769]Uk dentists work in UK properties and employ UK staff under UK employment law. We live in the UK pay UK mortgages.

We pay UK prices for equipment and materials and maintain the UK properties using UK builders and services. We have UK regulations to comply to including Waste disposal regulations, minimum wage, health and safety, cross infection control, registration of all dental staff, training to appropriate standards for all staff.

We generally use UK based dental labs for denture, crown and bridgework (Although some trying to remain in the NHS are now sending their labwork overseas for cheaper prices), who employ their technicians under UK employment law, and have to conform to all the UK regulations that govern them.

Ahh its always some onelses fault,the dentists blame the goverment because they didn't like the contracts they had to sign ie we cant survive on 60/80/90 k per year, we have to pay for this we have to pay for that, the whole point of threads like these is that it shows how far we are being ripped off, the whole thing is a vicious circle, and the circle must be broken if we as a nation are to survive, Uk dentists might have to pay higher prices for their properties, but they dont have to buy they can always rent, as do most people companies in europe we are obssessed with owning our own properties, the Eastern European companies still have to buy the same equipment in fact it's usually better. So I still stick to my original statement UK dentists are Licenced Bandits and are ripping us OFF!!!!!!!

theredfox

31-05-2007, 2:38 PM

Uk dentists work in UK properties and employ UK staff under UK employment law. We live in the UK pay UK mortgages.....

That's because it's making somebody an awful lot of money....

Health tourism is not a win-win situation.....

There will be a price to pay somewhere along the line by somebody.

1) Paying UK mortages etc....so do we all. But somehow, I doubt if YOU struggle with this toothsmith. You make it sound like you're the victim. You're not - you're one of the reasons why people call this country Rip Off UK.

2) Yes, YOU - dentists - are making an awful lot of money. What do you make, toothsmith? 60, 70, 80 thousand a year before perks?

3) No, health tourism is not win-win, its win-lose: we win, you lose.

4) Yes there will be a price to pay - as more people go abroad you might have to stop charging so much, and won't be able to afford your holiday villa in Tuscany. How sad.....not.

I know what dentistry is like - I used to have a dentist friend. He used to strut around like a middle class version of Del Boy, concerned with one thing and one thing only: £££. In fact he went to the US, because over there it's more like $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

tipsychick

31-05-2007, 2:39 PM

There was an interesting account of cosmetic dentistry in Hungary in The Sunday Times last weekend.

http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/travel/destinations/europe/article1839806.ece

I understand what you're saying Toothsmith and I'd much prefer to get it done in the UK where I know the system but it's just prohibitively expensive.

theredfox

31-05-2007, 3:06 PM

From a Hungary dentist quoted in the Times:

"According to Dr Endre Lantos, of the Vital Centre dental surgery, “The English have no idea of the true cost of dentistry. Here, I can fit an implant for £400 and make £100 profit. In London, they’ll charge £1,800 for the same treatment. Same materials, same techniques, same expertise. No wonder your dentists drive sports cars”."

Sports cars? Yes, thats exactly true for the dentist I knew. Big, red, and show-off. Although I suspect Mercedes cruisers are just as popular as speedy Ferraris.

yogayogi

31-05-2007, 4:07 PM

[QUOTE=greeneye;5332653]Anyone else a little dubious about the recomendations on here from people who've never posted before and/or only joined today?? :rolleyes:

Hey, a cynic after my own heart! But there's a time and a place. I don't see any salesmen here. Or anyone posting anything they could personally profit from. Every member had to start sometime, even you: like me the other newbies probably felt they could make a useful contribution on this subject.

As one of the posters you're referring to, I'd like to thank you for making us feel so welcome!! I trust the other members are less supercilious.

vicky smith

31-05-2007, 4:24 PM

I had 4 crowns and a bridge also a plate with 7 teeth done in Budapest. I was quoted £3 -4000 in UK, it cost me £800 in Hungary. I can honestly say the equipment was better and the dentist was a professor of dentistry. I went over twice and the first visit was 3 hrs! Even with the flights it cost less than £900!
Would seriously reccomend it but you do need to have aftercare set up in UK. My dentist is fine about this and has said what a good job they did.

rosil

31-05-2007, 4:33 PM

Problem with overseas dentistry is that I have seen cases where things have gone seriously wrong- perhaps you're not hearing from those patients. In answer to the comment re Thatcher ruining the NHS dental service I would have to say that if the Tories compromised the service in 1992 Blair finally destroyed it last yearand it is not the dentists that are being greedy .

Toothsmith

31-05-2007, 4:34 PM

I used to have a dentist friend. He used to strut around like a middle class version of Del Boy, concerned with one thing and one thing only: £££. In fact he went to the US, because over there it's more like $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

And that's how you speak about your friends! :D

I'm never going to make any inroads into predjudices like this.

Uk dentistry costs UK prices because that's how much it costs to provide the service.

Dentists are well paid. I earn 4-5 times the national average, but I run a small business employing 8 people and I've invested over 500k in it over the last 10 years, putting my house up as security for it.

I'd be interested to know what 'perks' you think I enjoy over and above my salary!

Health tourism is wrong on many levels.

How much above the local average wage do you think the East European dentists are on?

How do you think the locals view the rich tourists coming over and using the services of 'their' dentists and pricing them out of dental care?

Which country does the Hungarian farmworker nip off to for his dental care?

Are you bovvered?

As I said earlier, there is only one reason such places exist, and that is to make money. This money is so much easier to make in a less regulated environment and with patients who, in general, know very little about what dentistry is appropriate for them and put little importance on aftercare once the 'big fix' has sorted out their teeth 'Once and for all'.

Dentistry and indeed some medical proceedures done more cheaply abroad will have quite a substancial niche market. That market doesn't interfere with anybody who is likely to value and appreciate the services provided by a decent local dentist.

By just fixing problems without any thought to why the problems have occured in the first place is just storing up exactly the same problems to strike again later.

When a mouthful of crowns or implants eventually fall to bits though, there will be very little left to do anything useful with.

At most dental meetings I attend there are often one or two stories of patients who have saught help after returning from such clinics with totally inappropriate treatments carried out.

Now it's also true that we also swap stories about work from other UK dentists which we have had to put right.

The difference is though that the UK stories tend to be more about one or two duff fillings that can easily be corrected.

If you've had loads of titanium screwed into your jaw and it all goes pear shaped - it's a different league!

theredfox

31-05-2007, 4:56 PM

No, health tourism is brilliant because it supports economies that need it instead of supporting Mercedes and Tuscan villas for Rip-Off merchants like you. It will have a positive effect for everyone except one class of person only: Rip Off merchants who might perhaps have to lower their prices when more people understand that market competition extends beyond the boundaries of Britain. It is morally, socially and financially sensible to buy services from someone who makes a good salary from his services, instead of someone who exploits a situation and makes a huge salary.

People are not dumb - they will research foreign services and check them out thoroughly, and this thread would be a good starting point. I have a friend who's been satisifed with Thai dentistry. You mention the dangers of major work: OK so here's a question to other people: who's had major work abroad, and been satisfied? Spread the word!

Why exactly are you here? - I seriously doubt its because you're the Florence Nightingale of dentistry concerned about the nation's tooth aches. You won't stop it, and you know you won't. My guess is, you're worried about buying that Tuscan villa.

Rip-Off Britain makes me very angry, and I'm afraid you've just stepped into the firing line with regard to just one of its problems. Basic dental care shouldn't be an expensive and elitist service - it should be easily available in a developed country like Britain, but its been exploited according to basic economic/capitalist facts: if people can get away with charging more, they will; and if they can't do it so much in the NHS, they go exclusively private. Interesting to see for example, the comments from the Hungarian dentist quoted at the Times. He charges £400 for work that would cost £1800 in Britain. And he makes a £100 profit on that - which as the % figures go, is still very good. Further, the Times says, "The British Dental Association (BDA) does not deny that the quality of treatment in Hungary is superior to that in the UK". So, not only massively cheaper but also better. Personally I'm more interested in a dental holiday somewhere like India or maybe S Africa, but I think the point that's been made at this discussion is abundantly clear.

vivmerc

31-05-2007, 4:59 PM

hi HoneyPhillip , i'm planning on visiting the phillipines later this year , which island were you on and do you have the dentists details ? vivmerc

rac

31-05-2007, 5:04 PM

If I can answer some of your points without predjudice.

How do you think the locals view the rich tourists coming over and using the services of 'their' dentists and pricing them out of dental care?

Which country does the Hungarian farmworker nip off to for his dental care?

These points are, with respect, irrelevent.
Its an open market, there are people in the UK on a low income with exactly the same problem, and without a NHS dentist.

When a mouthful of crowns or implants eventually fall to bits though, there will be very little left to do anything useful with.

Which is why its so important to do your research and find a good dentist who offers guarantees, preferably one with a UK clinic for follow up appointments.

By just fixing problems without any thought to why the problems have occured in the first place is just storing up exactly the same problems to strike again later.

The dental clinic I used offered a consultation in the UK prior to any work being done. The options were discussed in much the same way as would have happened with any other good dentist. Please don't assume all 'foreign' dentists are not up to the job and simply want to take peoples money.

Toothsmith

31-05-2007, 5:50 PM

Why exactly are you here? - I seriously doubt its because you're the Florence Nightingale of dentistry concerned about the nation's tooth aches. You won't stop it, and you know you won't. My guess is, you're worried about buying that Tuscan villa.

This is offensive.

We seem to have joined this site at similar times 2 years ago.

In that time, I have replied to hundreds of dental questions saving a lot of people a lot of money. And been thanked many times too

You have hardly done anything, and nothing useful judging by your 'thanked posts'.

I have given people the information they need to find a decent dentist in their area, and armed them with the right questions to ask in order to get the sort of treatment they need.

I have never given any clue to my real identity, because I am busy enough and don't need to pull in any patients from this site.

You do not have any sort of clue of the issues involved here. You just have a chip on your shoulder about people who have worked to get themselves into a position where they earn more money than you.

7 years ago I had a choice. To stay in dentistry, or to take over the small tyre & exhaust depot my Dad had built up and run over the past 20 years when he retired.

He employed about 8 people and had invested a similar amount of money into his business as I had into mine.

He also earnt a similar amount of money.

Would it be OK to earn 100k as the owner of a Tyre & exhaust depot? A job I could have done without all the mucking about getting 'O' & 'A' levels, and then 5 years at dental school.

Then what's wrong with dentists being well paid?

Basic dental care is not that expensive in this country, and if the Government didn't want to push it all into the private sector, then an NHS service limited to basic dental care could easily be provided for the whole population.

Crowns, bridges, veneers, implants, and whitening treatments ARE NOT basic dental care though - they are ADVANCED cosmetic dental care. There is nothing wrong with advanced dental care being expensive, because it is expensive to provide in an expensive country.

The problem comes when people go abroad and receive cheap advanced care which may be completely inappropriate to their needs. And in the process, divert the dentists from another country from providing basic dental care to their own population

Toothsmith

31-05-2007, 5:56 PM

How do you think the locals view the rich tourists coming over and using the services of 'their' dentists and pricing them out of dental care?

Which country does the Hungarian farmworker nip off to for his dental care?

These points are, with respect, irrelevent.
Its an open market, there are people in the UK on a low income with exactly the same problem, and without a NHS dentist.

This point is not irrelevent.

NHS dental care is a Govenment issue. If they wanted NHS dental care, there would be NHS dental care.

NHS dentists have not left the system to work on a wealthy patients from another country. They have left the system because the system is unworkable.

An 'open market' it certainly is. Doesn't make it right though.

amabel

31-05-2007, 6:05 PM

Re: Economist article. We go to Thailand every year as my partner's brother lives there. Last year for the first time we had dental work done as our UK dentist had gone private. We were very impressed with the treatment at the clinic in Chiang Mai. They had state-of-the-art equipment, a team with experts in several aspects of dentistry, a team-working approach whereby the opinion of a colleague was sought, if felt necessary to make sure the right kind of treatment was given. And, the bills were modest compared to what we would have had to pay at home. We will certainly have our teeth checked again at our next visit.
Oh, by the way, I have only once before posted a reply. It depends on whether people have experiences worth sharing and in this case quite a few of us seemed to.

Toothsmith

31-05-2007, 6:12 PM

rac

31-05-2007, 6:38 PM

This point is not irrelevent.

NHS dental care is a Govenment issue. If they wanted NHS dental care, there would be NHS dental care.

NHS dentists have not left the system to work on a wealthy patients from another country. They have left the system because the system is unworkable.

An 'open market' it certainly is. Doesn't make it right though.

Doesn't make it wrong either!

I am simply saying many people are making choices that are economically prudent given the current circumstances with the NHS.

theredfox

31-05-2007, 7:22 PM

You dont know me toothsmith, I don't know you. An arm wrestling match about past or current credibility, helping others or whatever, is irrelevant.

I question your presence here, in regard to your objection to travel-abroad dentistry. You are free to counter it and appear to have done so but I think the general point remains, certainly about the most excellent possibilities of this topic.

You do not have any sort of clue of the issues involved here. You just have a chip on your shoulder about people who have worked to get themselves into a position where they earn more money than you.

I have more than a clue: I have a good understanding of economics, capitalism, human nature, greed, and how, in this case, they pertain to Rip Off UK dentistry. And I am angry about it. I think the UK economy is getting increasingly skewed, polarised into haves and have-nots, house prices being another disgusting example.

As for comments about what I earn, resentments etc, if I were you I'd tread carefully if you wish to avoid straying into a very unpleasant area, since you have no facts about me but I'm probably right in saying these forums essentially serve a purpose in helping people who, unlike you, do not have the luxury of massive salaries. I fall into that category through no fault, lack of education or effort of mine, and when I switch off my computer have nothing like the lifestyle you undoubtedly have: which I suspect is common here, so remarks like "people who have worked ....more money than you" blah blah will not be well received and certainly not by me when you, metaphorically, drive off smiling in your big Mercedes. I see plenty of wealthy people who have what they've got on the basis of hard work etc etc and thats fine.....the point is, dentistry involves different issues pertaining to health and welfare rights of a country's citizens, and how unacceptable it is when it becomes get-rich capitalism serving what's becoming an increasingly privileged few who can afford it.

I know people in business - one is a shop, one was a factory in the manufacturing industry. In both cases, you find nothing like the exploitative exchange that happen in dentistry. The sums and salaries involved are comparable, but irrelevant; what this concerns is an aspect of basic health care and how it should be available relatively easily in an advanced country. No one will believe, or accept, that a cost difference of £400 compared to £1800 is accounted for with greater running costs - and that concerns Hungary, not Goa or Thailand, and I suspect its similar with other European countries. That may be acceptable economics for a piece of "designer clothing" if that's what people want and enjoy and accept paying for, but dentistry is different - and I'm not talking US cosmetic style work, just basic healthy nice teeth. Blaming the government for an "unworkable NHS" is a ridiculous notion - what's that supposed to mean, exactly? Dentists are leaving it because they make vastly better profits by going private. I have no animosity towards you for earning £100,000 as such - but I do get angry when I'm presented with massive dental bills. They are two different things, but get related whereby questioning the former is the other side of the coin of the latter.

lynzpower

31-05-2007, 7:44 PM

I have to be honest, I agree with toothsmith on this one, I think we all as human beings in the UK have to accept the fact that heralth tourism of any kind has a socioeconomic impact. Whether in the light of this impact we change our behaviour is another thing entirely. I disagree its down to individual dentists what they charge- the NHS has got dentists over a barrell. I occasionally see the family dentist when i go home to manchester- a clean there is half what it is in london ( but I have a 50 quid train fare to factor in so I dont go specifically for this)

Im not sure I agree that a crown is "cosmetic" I knocked out my front tooth playing swingball as a nipper. it was badlyt crowned ( braces didnt help) and the crown fell off leaving a rotten stump behind as it was badly fitted. Ive had to have the majority of the remaining tooth drilled out & removed so its really the crown just hanging on in there. Without this im down to the gum

I am DREADING it going ( i get a shooting pain in it now and then suspect its the nerve) cos I just cannot work out how im going to pay 5-700 quid for the "cosmetic" treatment.

I have been considering going abroad to have my teeth gone over once and for all.

Ive also considered going overseas for some liposuction too, and If I could get both jobs done in one hit then I would be very interested. A figure for lipo off the internet ( just a google not looked into it properly) is around 300 quid.

If I could get both the crown adn the lipo done for the same price as Id pay for the crown here in the UK, Id be happy with that - its called VALUE FOR MONEY.

My mum said when they flew back from goa the first time looked like everyone had all been in a plane crash already! with thier black eyes and bandages everywhere :D

ps theres always a lot of "new" posters come through when martin posts a thread in the chat tips email. Happens all the time :D

chaddy7604

31-05-2007, 7:52 PM

http://www.pink-martini.org/missions/liens/link.php?m=1&l=1&u=7&k=1q5I0e5licY2VpbrMeOJ7Lhf6Vu5L

:spam:

Already reported this today, removed by mods!

Now posting as some body else

Toothsmith

01-06-2007, 8:17 AM

Blaming the government for an "unworkable NHS" is a ridiculous notion - what's that supposed to mean, exactly?

A system where doing one filing earns the dentist 3 funding points. Yet doing 7 filings, 3 root fillings, and 4 extractions also earns 3 funding points. (1 funding point = £15-20 depending on contract value)

A system where spending 2h root filling a tooth in order to save it earns 3 funding points, yet taking it out and making a small denture to replace it earns 12 funding points.

How's that for starters?

How about a system where if you earn all your funding points before the end of the year, you simply have to stop work until the next financial year?

Or a system that allows a PCT to simply take your contract away if it decides there is simply no 'Need' for your services anymore (Or more likely they're a bit strapped for cash). Try explaining that one to the bank manager when you're loking for a loan to re-equip a surgery!

How about a system that relies on the charges patients pay for a major part of the funding - which has lead to several PCTs instructing dentists to stop seeing patients exempt from patient charges and concentrate on those that have to pay!

I repeat that you have no understanding of the issues involved here, and the more you post, the more obvious that becomes.

You say that a difference in prices from £400 to £1800 cannot be accounted for in running costs. It is only just over 4 x more.

Are you telling me you don't believe property costs are 4x less in Hungary? My nurses vary between £8ph for the most junior, to £15ph for the more senior, with hygienists on £25-30ph. From what I read of Hungary, there are many who would be very happy with the equivalent of £2-£4 per DAY! That's why they travel over here to work in the fields.

If you really had any idea of economics, you wouldn't have posted half the rubbish you just have.

Dentistry is a healthcare profession - but social policy is a Government issue. If the Government want social dentistry, then it is they that have to make it happen. The way it's always been done in the past has been by business owning dentists subcontracting their time to the NHS.

If the NHS fees cannot keep pace with the costs of implementing the ever increasing regulations, then dentists cannot provide the care on the NHS.

The Government does have the choice of setting up it's own clinics - but apart from a few highly expensive 'Access Centres' thay have chosen not to do this. The reason? It's too expensive for them to run. If the Government can't afford to do it - then what chance have the dentists?

theredfox

01-06-2007, 10:11 AM

I'm not interested in the "rubbish" that YOU just posted. What does administrative points for this, points for that, have to do with the fundamental economics of this? - absolutely nothing. How much does an NHS dentist earn? And are you going to tell me it's a sob story, because it's only £50,000? Try and tell me they object to points for this points for that admin, rather than the fact that they can make £80,000, £100,00 whatever by going private?

I repeat that dentistry is mostly £ motivated, and the departure of dentists from the NHS is because they earn even more by going private.

How much does an NHS dentist earn?
How much do they earn by going private?

- and I think people can 1) make up their own minds why it happens and 2) object like I do when dentistry increasingly becomes an expensive option for the relatively privileged when 3) Britain is an advanced country and dental health is a basic necessity.

I'm really not interested in the agenda that you undoubtedly moan about in your professional organisations, and use to convince others you are victims.

How much does an NHS dentist earn?
How much do they earn by going private?

UK dentistry is going the same way as US private health care; what the government needs to do is implement some legislative control that currently applies to doctors, so dentistry doesn't become even more of a capitalist situation than it already is.

My initial remark expressed great delight at this thread and I look forward to more stories and information about dental holidays.

Toothsmith

01-06-2007, 11:03 AM

The point is you can make £80k on the NHS if you don't mind taking out teeth that could be saved. (Because you get more points for that on the NHS)

A recent table of earnings had dentists at 26 in the top 100 with average earnings of £42k. I did place a link to this table ages ago - and can't find it now. That didn't differentiate between private & NHS, but neither did it differentiate between part-time & full time so there can be a huge variation to get that average.

Private dentists don't earn much more than NHS ones. Inland Revenue figures show it to be about 5% more (Again, no link I'm afraid). When a dentist goes private they do charge more - but they slow down and see less people - giving a better service to each one. So higher charges but lower volume = similar earnings.

That is one of the things I'm constantly making people aware of on this site. If they are looking for a private dentist, then make sure they're getting the time they are paying for. Admittedly there are a few dentists out there charging private prices, yet still bashing out the volume. I object to this as much as dental tourism.

quidsinquentin

01-06-2007, 12:04 PM

I have a friend who had some teeth knocked out playing football and others loosened.

He went to India and paid less than £1500 for all the work.

He then paid nealry £3000 to have it all undone and redone to the correct standard in the UK.

Think about it very carefully - there's no comebacks as far as I'm aware.

unnaturalblonde

01-06-2007, 1:34 PM

thanks to Toothsmith for all the efforts s/he has put into their posts - and don't let redfox wind you up - he wouldn't want to cloud his argument with facts about the real situation of dentistry in the UK. My aunt's a GP and occasionally meets people who believe the tabloid headlines about GPs making a fortune. If they do, they're working incredibly hard for it.

chinup

01-06-2007, 2:18 PM

rac

01-06-2007, 2:54 PM

Admittedly there are a few dentists out there charging private prices, yet still bashing out the volume. I object to this as much as dental tourism.

You still havnt answered my central point. If I can have it done elsewhere, cheaper than, and to the same standard as in the UK AND have a holiday to boot, whats the problem?

OK so a foreign economy benefits a little, and UK dental clinics miss out on a little income (its not like they need the work).

Its not my fault the NHS/Goverment is in such a pickle, I have to react to the circumstances I find.

Where's the crime, exactly?

Denzelpuppy

01-06-2007, 3:44 PM

ooobedoo

01-06-2007, 4:41 PM

Is anybody having a go at GP's??????

Mr Ooob is currently studying to be a dental hygienist and it is so hard, has he not got the right to earn a good wage after he graduates? After all the study he has to do, the responsibility he will have-and he's not even goin gto be a dentist!!! We don't moan about GP's getting the massive amount they do, and there isn't much difference in the length of time training. I think the important thing to remember that the biggest problem is NHS who have neglected the dental element for years. I was with an NHS dentist who later went private and now he has more time to actually spend with me, working on brushing techniques, talking to my son about tooth education, and seeing him free. Ok, so I pay £15 a month(or thereabouts) on denplan but I would rather do that than get a hefty bill. I would rather pay that than get herded out of his surgery so the next person can get herded in.

Toothsmith

01-06-2007, 8:10 PM

This is for Toothsmith really but feel free for anyone else to contribute as they see fit, whilst on my "Dental Tourism " jolly last week to Budapest, my Dentist who happened to be a Proffessor od dentistry and was also licsenced to practice in the USA told me that they have not used Amalgam fillings in Hungary for 20yrs as they are dangerous and leak into the jaw bone and gums and cause associated health problems with the mercury and aluminuum and that they use composite or bonded fillings or Inlays, so my question is and I'm not being sarcastic i genuinley want to know is this true and if it is true why do we continue to use them in the UK?

It's continued to be used in the UK because there is no evidence that it causes any harm.

Nowadays there are better materials to use. The problem with amalgam is that a hole for it needs to have certain dimensions in order for it to be strong enough to last. Amalgam is not good at filling tiny holes.

White fillings fill tiny holes much better than amalgam - so if you find a tiny hole white filling is the stuff to go for.

If you have a big hole, then the shrinkage of white filling on setting means that a big blob of it will almost certainly shrink enough to start off a tiny leak somewhere - which means the filling will soon fail. There are ways to minimise this shrinkage - but they all take a lot of time which racks up the bill.

So - small holes in fresh tooth (E.g early fillings in children) go for white every time.

Big fillings, or fillings in mouths with a lot of decay, or if replacing amalgam fillings due to wear or doing fillings in people who can't keep still for very long - then amalgam is the material of choice.

If you want good looking big fillings then you need to go for porcelain or ceramic inlays - but again - these are expensive and need to be done well in order to last.

Dentists who bang on about health risks of amalgam are just jumping on a bandwagon. People ingest more mercury from eating fish than they ever will from a mouthful of fillings. Try asking such dentists about the health risks of BIS-GMA (The organic resin in white fillings). Dentistry does not have a 'safe' filling material. All the materials we have have something in them that in other situations, or very high doses has been shown to harm something or other.

I have amalgam fillings in my mouth.

If they needed replacing - would probably have the same again, as the oldest is 30 yrs old, and still looks good.

I am still happy to work with amalgam - although I use much less of it than I used to. This is for the reasons above though, and the fact that having escaped the NHS, I can now use the most appropriate materials for my patients and not just the ones Gordon Brown will pay for! :D

Toothsmith

01-06-2007, 8:33 PM

errr, just to say i've had the 'pleasure' of having what i later found out were totally unneccessary fillings not once but TWICE by UK NHS dentists. once as a child, which lets face it toothsmith was endemic circa 30 + yrs ago. and then c5 yrs ago. I can only presume they, especially more recently, had a big staff wage bill to pay perhaps ? dentists are one of those trades where we pretty much have to trust what we are being told + shown: sadly the trust is still not always being rewarded. now we are hearing about the credibility of foriegn consultants from yourself ! ps- can't help admiring my local dentists 550 amg merc saloon when i drive past: much roomier surely than the new tvr he had last time.

I haven't questioned the credibility of any dentists.

My posts on this board are always directed at helping people distinguish between dentists who are trying to do a good job, and those that are playing whatever system they happen to work under to the detrement of the patient.

It doesn't always work that cheap is good and expensive is bad - and it certainly isn't always true that the most expensive is always the best.

I don't care if guys operating in Eastern Europe are the greatest technical dentists ever created. If they think they can see a dental disaster, make it look wonderful with wall to wall porcelain and then send the patient home never to have a dental problem again then they are deluded.

And this is happening all the time in these places.

Unless you have a good few months AT LEAST (years would be better) of stabalising such patients, changing their habits, addressing their problems, educating them and making sure they can look after such advanced work, then at the very best you are taking a risk with their future health, and at worst you are being negligent.

As I said - I have no problems with people who visit a particular country frequently receiving dental care there.

But going off on a holiday and having £x thousand of dental work done is just plain silly. Even if it is excellent work.

There is a lot of work that isn't.

As coincidence would have it, today my associate saw an indian lady who is the mother of one of our hospital consultants here. 78 yrs old, very clever, and she had some work done in Mumbai (Bombay in old money - I'm not sure if I spelt Mumbai correctly). Nothing wrong in that - she is indian, and goes there regularly. But it was !!!!!

She had been provided with several crowns on her upper teeth, several were linked together for some unknown reason, 4 were falling off, one still looked like a temporary and bits of decay in some of her lower teeth had been completely ignored.

Due to her age, and the fact that the !!!! ones weren't actually giving trouble, we're only replacing the stuff that's falling off or 'temporary' and fixing the decay. We don't want to stir anything up under the other stuff!

The grass is not always greener where the dentists are cheap!

Peoples efforts would be much better directed finding a reasonably priced dentist in this country who can provide continuity of care - and would be just down the road if anything went nasty - and would be under the juristiction of British law if anything serious ever happened!

theredfox

01-06-2007, 9:32 PM

Unless you have a good few months AT LEAST (years would be better) of stabalising such patients, changing their habits, addressing their problems, educating them and making sure they can look after such advanced work, then at the very best you are taking a risk with their future health, and at worst you are being negligent.

Whats that supposed to mean? Stabilise? Habits?
Its just nonsense. Dentists aren't educators or philosophers, and most averagely educated people understand how to look after their teeth: avoid sugar, brush them, floss them, nuke the bacteria with strong mouthwash (makes a big difference - I recommend it highly), and thats all there is to it. And I didn't charge £500 for that wisdom. And no doubt, the months of the more "professional" blah blah blah would cost lots of money.

Anecdotal stories are not very worth very much particularly - I'm sure there are plenty of UK bad stories and have 1 or 2 myself - but see little purpose in recounting them. And people disagree about amalgam - consult the homeopathic fraternity and you will find dramatic stories testifying to its problems, making people ill.

Theres bad and good everywhere, less advanced countries require a little more caution and research, but the difference between £400 and £1800 is massive, its even more when considering places like Thailand or India, and I maintain what I said about the economics of private in relation to the NHS.

You're pulling the wool over no one's eyes. Dental holidays are a fantastic idea, and I welcome more stories and information on how and where to pursue them. My guess is, dentists are getting worried about this because they can see how attractive it is to people fed up with paying large amounts of money. Tough: it's called market economics, and its how exploitative transactions get levelled.

Toothsmith

01-06-2007, 9:47 PM

Dental holidays are a fantastic idea

Just bu££er off on one then :D

rac

01-06-2007, 10:21 PM

You still havnt answered my central point. If I can have it done elsewhere, cheaper than, and to the same standard as in the UK AND have a holiday to boot, whats the problem?

OK so a foreign economy benefits a little, and UK dental clinics miss out on a little income (its not like they need the work).

Its not my fault the NHS/Goverment is in such a pickle, I have to react to the circumstances I find.

Where's the crime, exactly?

Toothsmith?

Your not going to answer are you?

Its OK, I understand.

Just take a deep breath, relax, and whisper the words...

"I, toothsmith am wrong, and I apologise"

There, feel better now?

theredfox

01-06-2007, 10:36 PM

Just bu££er off on one then :D

I intend to.
I've heard good reports about these:

http://www.silomdental.com/index.html
http://www.sih.co.th/dental.htm

But South Africa might make a nicer holiday because I'm a country-mountain kinda guy rather than city guy, so I'm particularly interested in hearing about it. And also Goa, which I fancy visiting. Any information on these?

lynzpower

01-06-2007, 10:43 PM

Toothsmith?

Your not going to answer are you?

Its OK, I understand.

Just take a deep breath, relax, and whisper the words...

"I, toothsmith am wrong, and I apologise"

There, feel better now?

I will answer :D

the difficulty arises when the "rich" ie us, go somewhere "poor" ie "there" ( india/turkey/wherever) and we with our money and strong exchange rate etc buy services over and above general tourism

this means that - as a rule of thumb- the tourist and thier money will take precedent over the locals. If it costs us 30 quid to get a crown in bulgaria - that could be a months income for a local - yes its cheap to us, but its not for them. Whats to stop the bulgarian dentist putting it up to 35 quid a crown? We wont quibble over a fiver- cos its still a significant saving for us, but fewer locals can afford it. the more of us that go, it inevitably means that the more the local health staff court us "high rollers". and effectively, it leads to a two teir system in that country, no different really to what we have here, except those countries are poorer than we are and there is a moral question mark over the whole thing for me.

Personally, I do not believe morally there should be a capitalist system in the health service anywhere. where it means those who cant afford to have ther teeth seen to ( most of us here discussing it) either have to do without, or find cheaper alternatives. the problem being is that those cheaper alternatives ( ie going abroad) become more expensive to the locals in that country.

Moral minefield IMHO

rac

01-06-2007, 11:13 PM

I will answer :D

the difficulty arises when the "rich" ie us, go somewhere "poor" ie "there" ( india/turkey/wherever) and we with our money and strong exchange rate etc buy services over and above general tourism

this means that - as a rule of thumb- the tourist and thier money will take precedent over the locals. If it costs us 30 quid to get a crown in bulgaria - that could be a months income for a local - yes its cheap to us, but its not for them. Whats to stop the bulgarian dentist putting it up to 35 quid a crown? We wont quibble over a fiver- cos its still a significant saving for us, but fewer locals can afford it. the more of us that go, it inevitably means that the more the local health staff court us "high rollers". and effectively, it leads to a two teir system in that country, no different really to what we have here, except those countries are poorer than we are and there is a moral question mark over the whole thing for me.

Personally, I do not believe morally there should be a capitalist system in the health service anywhere. where it means those who cant afford to have ther teeth seen to ( most of us here discussing it) either have to do without, or find cheaper alternatives. the problem being is that those cheaper alternatives ( ie going abroad) become more expensive to the locals in that country.

Moral minefield IMHO

And your point is...............?

This is a money saving forum.

Repeat. money.saving.

Get it?

The object is to save money.

No one cares about 'locals' and there is no reason that they should.

All they need to care about is getting the best deal. Thats what the European Union and indeed the World market is about.

Take your moral objections to someone who cares.

Again, we, the customer did not create the situation.

We go where we get 'the best bang for the buck' as the Americans say.

And while it's legal, we are doing nothing wrong.

Sparky67

02-06-2007, 7:40 AM

Before anything gets too clouded, can say that I have no issues with people having dental care in other countries that they visit regularly.

If someone has relatives who live abroad, or who are not natives of the UK then as far as I'm concerned it is fine to have dental care wherever you feel confident in your care.

It seems that you are beginning to own this thread :eek:

In the end some people will have good and some bad but most will have good care at their own risk (which they will have calculated and judged for themselves I expect)!

Question - why should dentistry be protected from market forces (capitalism)? How difficult is it to do these operations, are "foreigners" not intelligent enough to pick up the education needed, when they travel quite often to gain this knowledge from British universities or equivalent?

If dentists are "worried" about the patient care and not the bucks they lose then I am indeed grateful and will anticipate soon their professional organisation sending out information on how patients can get cheap foreign treatment safely because after all you could not creditably be saying it’s all bad out there??????
:confused:

Toothsmith

02-06-2007, 8:43 AM

And your point is...............?

This is a money saving forum.

Repeat. money.saving.

Get it?

The object is to save money.

No one cares about 'locals' and there is no reason that they should.

All they need to care about is getting the best deal. Thats what the European Union and indeed the World market is about.

Take your moral objections to someone who cares.

Again, we, the customer did not create the situation.

We go where we get 'the best bang for the buck' as the Americans say.

And while it's legal, we are doing nothing wrong.

Martin - what have you created? :money:

theredfox

02-06-2007, 10:51 AM

Question - why should dentistry be protected from market forces (capitalism)? How difficult is it to do these operations, are "foreigners" not intelligent enough to pick up the education needed, when they travel quite often to gain this knowledge from British universities or equivalent?
If dentists are "worried" about the patient care and not the bucks they lose then I am indeed grateful and will anticipate soon their professional organisation sending out information on how patients can get cheap foreign treatment safely because after all you could not creditably be saying it’s all bad out there??????
:confused:

And, you can't have it both ways. If there's an inadequate dental service in this country, by which I mean it's increasingly expensive and fewer can afford it - because capitalism is driving it in Britain - then it's logical this gets extended to the rest of Europe and beyond, where we find massively better prices.

UK dentistry private, expensive, capitalist? - OK, well now with cheap air travel and the internet we can play the game with consumer power , and we can win!

Answer? - make it available more economically in Britain, which means more NHS provision (and I don't blame the government for that, think that's ridiculous, but in any case that's just hypothetical arguing), so we wouldn't have to look abroad. We didn't start it! - but should use the choice we have, if this is the situation we face.

It's a new world, with new internet/travel possiblities. Its the same with cars - you can save thousands by buying abroad and people have done this and challenged the price-fixing rubbish in the British market. If anyone is sick of Rip Off UK - sick, sick, sick, of cars, electrical goods, housing and all major products substantially more expensive than in Europe and the US - then, for example, an idea like a dental holiday is just great. Of course, one gets a little nervous; but with intelligent research, and advice from people who have already done it, it seems a most excellent idea.

blueboyto

02-06-2007, 11:00 AM

Having been quoted £5000 by my UK dentist for 2 implants and a replacement bridge, or have a plate. I decided to investigate the overseas options. I was surprised to find that Hungary is considered by many to be the dental capital of Europe.
In the end I settled on BioDental of Budapest. They had an English agent Andrew Bones, available on free phone 0800 043 8834, who was extremely knowledgeable and most helpful. I was given a written quote based entirely on the limited information that I was able to give.
They arranged 7 nights accommodation in a lovely apartment, approx 100m from the Houses of Parliament, and overlooking the Danube - at a cost of £40 per night. What a location! They even arranged (at their expence) a taxi to collect us from, and return us to the airport.
Within 2 weeks I was there, having the treatment in a state of the art surgery. After a full CAT scan x-ray they found that implants were not practical due to the length of time since some of the teeth were removed. They found too that I had a number of other problems (such as abscess's and a broken root!) missed by my own dentist, and that the bite of my upper and lower rear teeth had never been correct. I received a detailed written quote which we then discussed. I have been a Buyer since 1979 and found the contract to be about the most straightforward I have seen.
In the end I spent many hours in the surgery and had to extend my stay to 9 nights.
At all times my wife and I were treated with the utmost kindness and courtesy, the treatment was superb and more or less pain free, language was never an issue as they spoke excellent English, and nothing was too much trouble. We are extremely pleased with the outcome. Not only that but I was charged approx £1100 less than I was quoted as I didn't have the implants. and in addition to all of that they give your partner a free clean and polish, and in my wifes case whitened them for her too!
I dont have any hesitation in recommending BioDental - and NO, before you ask, I am not on commission. I'm sure there are practices who are as good, and there may be some who are even better, but I doubt it.
If anyone is worrying about making such an important decision (as I did) my advice would be don't. Just get on with it - if my experience is anything to go by, you are unlikely to regret it.
Anyone wanting more information, please ask.

leesharp

02-06-2007, 11:46 AM

Hi,

i went to a dentist in Krakow Poland last year,they were very good ,spoke English very well,and the price i paid was around £800 for a 6 unit bridge. My own dentist here in the UK Wanted £3,500. Krakow itself is a very nice place to spend a few days or even a week (which i did) The company was on one of the BBC travel shows,and the presenter had some work done himself.

Ive spent many hours e-mailing dentists all over Poland + Hungary and shortlisted 4 of them . Two from Poland and two from Hungary,when i saw the dentist on the BBC i decided to go for that one.But to be honest they all looked very good. i based my choice not just on price but also the feedback from them all.
Here is the link to the dentist in Poland.
http://www.dentist-planet.com/dentist_poland/indexmedica/index.htm

They also provided me with free accomadation,free check up,and free airport transfers. Have a look at the web site because they will send you a dvd all about the pratice

any of you would like the others please let me know.Like i said before i have spent many hours e-mailing dentists in both countries so i now have a very long list of them :-).

After saying all that my friend goes out to India to have his work done,i was tempted but felt its a little too far to go.
Hope this all helps

Lee Sharp...........

Denzelpuppy

02-06-2007, 12:59 PM

I will answer :D

the difficulty arises when the "rich" ie us, go somewhere "poor" ie "there" ( india/turkey/wherever) and we with our money and strong exchange rate etc buy services over and above general tourism

this means that - as a rule of thumb- the tourist and thier money will take precedent over the locals. If it costs us 30 quid to get a crown in bulgaria - that could be a months income for a local - yes its cheap to us, but its not for them. Whats to stop the bulgarian dentist putting it up to 35 quid a crown? We wont quibble over a fiver- cos its still a significant saving for us, but fewer locals can afford it. the more of us that go, it inevitably means that the more the local health staff court us "high rollers". and effectively, it leads to a two teir system in that country, no different really to what we have here, except those countries are poorer than we are and there is a moral question mark over the whole thing for me.

Personally, I do not believe morally there should be a capitalist system in the health service anywhere. where it means those who cant afford to have ther teeth seen to ( most of us here discussing it) either have to do without, or find cheaper alternatives. the problem being is that those cheaper alternatives ( ie going abroad) become more expensive to the locals in that country.

Moral minefield IMHO

I have a friend that lives and works in Istanbul and he's telling me that the Dentists their have one price for locals and one price for Tourists which is still 66% cheaper than what we pay in the UK

MissMoneypenny

02-06-2007, 1:22 PM

Peoples efforts would be much better directed finding a reasonably priced dentist in this country who can provide continuity of care - and would be just down the road if anything went nasty - and would be under the juristiction of British law if anything serious ever happened!

Didn’t happen in my case when the private work a dentist here did, went wrong. He was too busy to see me and just asked me to go down to collect continual prescriptions for the pain. In the end, my tooth died - the pain stopped then!

The British Law bit isn’t quite true either. My solicitor said that she had dealt with two dentists’ insurers (I think she said that there were only two, but can’t remember that bit for sure). And that one insurer would try to sort problems, while the other always fought the cases and used its massive financial power, so that the patient had little chance of funding a case (and I was using a £50,000.00 insurance policy too)! Guess which one my private dentist had gone with – can’t think why. It was just too expensive to continue, so the dentist got away with it.

Sorry to go off topic. Thanks to Martin for starting this thread. It's a good one.

lynzpower

02-06-2007, 3:47 PM

I have a friend that lives and works in Istanbul and he's telling me that the Dentists their have one price for locals and one price for Tourists which is still 66% cheaper than what we pay in the UK

If that is the case, then I have no problem at all with it.

As I said In an earlier post, I do struggle with the morals of it, but however, I want to save money as much as the next person. Currently Im doing this by not going to the dentist!

theredfox

02-06-2007, 3:56 PM

My wife and I go to South Africa each year where we have our dental needs attended to. The standard of dentistry is of the best,with no delays and no unnecessary work being done to padd the account. With the very favourable rate of exchange , the money saved pays for our air tickets. Try it and see for yourself.

Gordon Batt

Could you mention where exactly you go?

theredfox

02-06-2007, 4:00 PM

theredfox

02-06-2007, 4:03 PM

theredfox

02-06-2007, 4:05 PM

theredfox

02-06-2007, 4:10 PM

theredfox

02-06-2007, 9:26 PM

Denzelpuppy

02-06-2007, 11:24 PM

C'mon guys, I'm serious: it's not a challenge, its a request for information and ideas so I can find somewhere good to get a teeth-fix holiday :D

Consumer power, etc etc.....

I was considering Thailand, but its not my number one holiday target.

Hungary - Budapest is the Paris of the East and most people speak English as the Magyar language is difficult to learn, theres plenty of Dentists to choose from and loads here have posted good links to some pretty amazing dentists

David Mee

03-06-2007, 12:23 AM

Whats that supposed to mean? Stabilise? Habits?
Its just nonsense. Dentists aren't educators or philosophers, and most averagely educated people understand how to look after their teeth: avoid sugar, brush them, floss them, nuke the bacteria with strong mouthwash (makes a big difference - I recommend it highly), and thats all there is to it.

If this were true then dentists would be out of business - they aren't - so it can't be true!

How did their mouth get into the state its in? By Magic?? (Sure, trauma is different subject but more difficult to fix as bone usually lost too)

So, if they are the sort of people who do not look after their mouths why would they miraculously change overnight?

What would be the point of slapping £400 (or £1800) pounds worth of work in their mouth only to have it fail? You HAVE to change the habits otherwise its pointless.

Lots of work done abroad is excellent and there's no problem with it but you have to figure into the equation what happens if it fails - do you go back and spend an equal amount again to redo it? Do you try another clinic? Do you opt for UK based care?

There are hundreds of different implant systems in use worldwide - when the crowns / bridges / dentures need aftercare will you be happy having to keep flying back to have them checked?

It may seem like a simple "money-saving exercise" but its not just a one off hit.

If you buy something cheap from US and it breaks and you have to post it back to US would you consider it money saving?

If e.g. people living in Lake District are priced out of the area because rich southerners want a "cheap" holiday home is that right?

So why price people out of dental care in their own country?

Sure its easy to pick on the gross figures earned by dentists and scream and shout but this just shows complete ignorance of FACTS. You have failed to knock off expenses as Toothsmith pointed out ages ago - staff need paying, bills need paying, suppliers need paying etc etc You have also failed to look at other equivalent professions - how much do lawyers get paid?? Why no thread suggesting you go to Hungary for legal aid?? How much to GP's get paid??

Sure, you are mad, you want something for nothing and can't get it - so, go abroad, get it cheaper, no-one's stopping you - if it all goes well everyone will be wishing you well and congratulating you on saving a bundle - if it doesn't there will be an equally long list of us saying we told you so!

theredfox

03-06-2007, 10:40 AM

What a ridiculous, offensive rant - mad! FACTS! ignorance! ?????!!! etc.
I read the quality press, not the Sun, so I'm uninterested in such exchanges.

I'm not engaging any more with any debate aboutthis; got better things to do, like find a good, cheap, overseas service. I'll just note one point and one point alone, which is that the meaning of my remark re. 'that's all there is to it' is found in the context in which I said it, referring to what I said. Thanks for all the "advice" - what happens if it goes wrong etc etc - but I'm perfectly aware of all the issues, thanks, and am proceeding with this accordingly in regard to treatment the 'severity' of which you know nothing: in fact it's not too serious. I'm not here for other people's entertainment re. what my plans are, so why sneer like that? - go shout at a football match, or a politician, and have no doubt you will not get the opportunity to say 'I told you so', or anything else, since you do not know me and never will.

I'll wait to see if any more useful information gets posted.

rac

03-06-2007, 12:37 PM

If this were true then dentists would be out of business - they aren't - so it can't be true!

How did their mouth get into the state its in? By Magic?? (Sure, trauma is different subject but more difficult to fix as bone usually lost too)

So, if they are the sort of people who do not look after their mouths why would they miraculously change overnight?

What would be the point of slapping £400 (or £1800) pounds worth of work in their mouth only to have it fail? You HAVE to change the habits otherwise its pointless.

Lots of work done abroad is excellent and there's no problem with it but you have to figure into the equation what happens if it fails - do you go back and spend an equal amount again to redo it? Do you try another clinic? Do you opt for UK based care?

There are hundreds of different implant systems in use worldwide - when the crowns / bridges / dentures need aftercare will you be happy having to keep flying back to have them checked?

It may seem like a simple "money-saving exercise" but its not just a one off hit.

If you buy something cheap from US and it breaks and you have to post it back to US would you consider it money saving?

If e.g. people living in Lake District are priced out of the area because rich southerners want a "cheap" holiday home is that right?

So why price people out of dental care in their own country?

Sure its easy to pick on the gross figures earned by dentists and scream and shout but this just shows complete ignorance of FACTS. You have failed to knock off expenses as Toothsmith pointed out ages ago - staff need paying, bills need paying, suppliers need paying etc etc You have also failed to look at other equivalent professions - how much do lawyers get paid?? Why no thread suggesting you go to Hungary for legal aid?? How much to GP's get paid??

Sure, you are mad, you want something for nothing and can't get it - so, go abroad, get it cheaper, no-one's stopping you - if it all goes well everyone will be wishing you well and congratulating you on saving a bundle - if it doesn't there will be an equally long list of us saying we told you so!

If you would take the time to read this entire thread, you will see there are Hungarian Dental practices which offer aftercare at UK based clinics.

As for the rest of your post, I refer you to my earlier comments.

PayDay

03-06-2007, 1:35 PM

Sure its easy to pick on the gross figures earned by dentists and scream and shout but this just shows complete ignorance of FACTS. You have failed to knock off expenses as Toothsmith pointed out ages ago - staff need paying, bills need paying, suppliers need paying etc etc You have also failed to look at other equivalent professions - how much do lawyers get paid?? Why no thread suggesting you go to Hungary for legal aid?? How much to GP's get paid??

If you go into your own private business then you should be allowing for the fact that that it is a global market, in your business plan. Why are you dentists asking the British people to stay loyal to you? You aren't being loyal to us with the prices you charge.

Denzelpuppy

03-06-2007, 2:56 PM

If this were true then dentists would be out of business - they aren't - so it can't be true!

How did their mouth get into the state its in? By Magic??

Nope they got in that state because of the phobia that people have over dentists and their practices, which in all fairness is not the Dentists fault 100% but due mainly to the fact of the slowness in technology terms that dentistry has progressed over the decades, and is now only really progressing, with modern anesthetics like TIVA and the use of Laser Drills which if British dentists want to hold onto their patients need to invest in. This of course costs money but instead of trying to recoup their investment in double quick time and charging extortionate fees for using new technology they should eek it out over a longer period. IE you reap what you sow

aurora borealis

03-06-2007, 3:05 PM

Is there any chance of a walk-in whitening appointment in Budapest?

Also, prescription sunglasses - might they be cheaper there?

Denzelpuppy

04-06-2007, 10:20 AM

Is there any chance of a walk-in whitening appointment in Budapest?

Also, prescription sunglasses - might they be cheaper there?
I would say yes I did notice up the same street as the apartment i was staying in that there were 2 24hr dental centres that did everything from implants, to emergency work to cosmetic dentistry

TurnaroundSue

04-06-2007, 2:25 PM

I have read this thread with great interest, but I am still confused by how to pick out a good dentist in the UK? Ok Toothsmith has advised on his other threads to go and get a feel for the dentist/speak to them etc, but I don't know how this would help me. Just by going into a dentist's practice would not help me to make a decision on whether they are good or not and when I have phoned up a couple of local dentists to ask to speak to the dentist, I have been told that I need to register and make an appointment for this to be able to happen. What do I say then, no sorry, not really sure you are good enough and try somewhere else?

I went to a UK dentist some 6 years ago, after my own NHS dentist would not do white fillings. I was niave and did not realise some of the questions I should have asked. The dentist spent very little time with me in ensuring I was doing the right thing, letting me know the full term prospects (sorry, I am talking about veneers now) and has never really spent any time since. I am now in the situation of have a broken crown, 2 veneers which have come off (the same dentist then telling me they cannot be replaced as you don't get the same bond) so will now have to be replaced with crowns, and cannot now afford the extortionate prices since dentisry prices have gone through the roof!!! Having veneers is one of my life's biggest regrets.

So now I am in a position where it doesn't really matter what nationality my dentist is or what country I have it done in, as the result will still be the same - I need to research wherever I go, but the difference being to find out about dentists abroad there is alot more information available on the internet then there is for, say, the dental practice along the road - so I feel that my choice will be better informed before I go abroad as the information provided is more detailed. There aren't any prices etc on local dentists on their websites (if they have one!!) to even compare!!!

I do also agree that even though I know nothing about the politics in this country of dentistry, I do feel that as a member of the public that the cost is more important to the dentist than any advice, help, education they give. I also work very hard for my money, but do not earn even a tenth of a dentist - is that far??? I have never seen a poor dentist, even before all the rot the government has done - all my dentists have been rich!!

brigittejohn

04-06-2007, 4:24 PM

From my experience, most places must be better than the UK, not just the places named on this forum!

I have lived in the UK for 27 years and practically all my medical experiences including dental here have been a disaster of low quality or high prices, and usually both.

When I arrived I already had a white filling and my UK dentist did not even know such a thing existed!

I now go to Brazil for treatment, as my husband is Brazilian: clean, modern, polite, and knowledgeable.

I have a friend who has major problems after a failed hysterectomy: she got more and better help in Tanzania!

Shame on the UK!
When are people going to complain effectively and get this sorted? We are worse off here than in many developing countries! It is shocking!

Toothsmith

04-06-2007, 5:05 PM

I have read this thread with great interest, but I am still confused by how to pick out a good dentist in the UK? Ok Toothsmith has advised on his other threads to go and get a feel for the dentist/speak to them etc, but I don't know how this would help me. Just by going into a dentist's practice would not help me to make a decision on whether they are good or not and when I have phoned up a couple of local dentists to ask to speak to the dentist, I have been told that I need to register and make an appointment for this to be able to happen. What do I say then, no sorry, not really sure you are good enough and try somewhere else?
....................

Going and visiting the practice really does make a difference.

Asking to speak to the dentist on the phone isn't the same.

If I'm up to my elbows in a decayed tooth, there's no way I can come to the phone! Even if I was having a coffee, and someone comes on the phone wanting to talk to me I wouldn't do it - you never know what sort of nutter it is!! It's far to easy to get embroiled in some spiralling conversation about how dentists are conspiring to poison the world with Mercury!

And what can I really tell anybody on the phone anyway?

By coming into a practice - just on the pretext of picking up a practice leaflet, or wanting some information on opening hours, you will see how friendly the staff are. You will see how crowded the waiting room looks (You don't want a waiting room crammed full of tutting people tapping their feet and looking at their watches!)

Also, again speaking personally, if someone comes in and is asking questions, and I can see they only have one head, and are of this planet, I'm much more likely to pop out of my hidey hole - sorry surgery - and have a chat.

All a nice website proves is that they've hired a good web designer. That doesn't tell you if they're a good dentist or not either.

The problem with dentistry is that you can only really tell if you have a good one or not 10+ years after having any treatment! Has it lasted, does it still look good, and is there enough tooth left to do something else with when the previous treatment comes to the end of it's life?

There are many good dentists out there. Often, they don't need to advertise via flashy websites, as they are busy enough with patients referred to them from other patients.

Personal recommendations from people you know and 'gut feeling' from visiting the practice really are the best way to find someone - But essentially you're right. You can never 'KNOW' that you have a good dentist before you get anything done. And you often don't know that you've HAD a good or bad dentist until several years AFTER.

Oh - and the bit about the veneers is not really true either. If you have to stick back a veneers, it's never quite as good as when it was initially stuck on, but a new one should stick just as well as anything. The problem is that in replacing it, you will have a little more of your tooth shaved away again, and there's only so many times you can get away with that.

theredfox

04-06-2007, 5:37 PM

I now go to Brazil for treatment, as my husband is Brazilian: clean, modern, polite, and knowledgeable.

Can you say WHERE?!
Interesting as this thread is, it's real value will lie in sharing some information.
Theres a few other posts here also, saying XYZ is just great, but don't say WHERE in XYZ!

Not so much education, education, education, as information, information, information....that's what we need. That's what allows us to benefit from dental holidays.

Just a quick web link - then we can go see, check out prices, e mail, and make plans.

"This thread has been viewed 3579 times. "
- so it could be a great resource, IF we can get some more information.

TurnaroundSue

04-06-2007, 9:16 PM

Personal recommendations from people you know and 'gut feeling' from visiting the practice really are the best way to find someone - But essentially you're right. You can never 'KNOW' that you have a good dentist before you get anything done. And you often don't know that you've HAD a good or bad dentist until several years AFTER.

Unfortunately the dentist who did my veneers came as a personal recommendation by someone who hadn't actually had any work done by him, but she was a dental nurse and so therefore could recommend him that way. It goes to show that not always a personal recommendation is the right way either - he is the dentist that said about the veneers, so really do not have any faith in him whatsover. I now feel that my only option is more by research, information and 'gut' feeling and therefore like I said before I would rather go abroad and get the work done at a more reasonable cost than picking a dentist in the uk, where whom I have very little faith in - thanks for the info Toothsmith, but hopefully you can see where I am coming from?

Denzelpuppy

05-06-2007, 8:40 AM

There are many good dentists out there. Often, they don't need to advertise via flashy websites, as they are busy enough with patients referred to them from other patients.

Or they are so busy, because most have gone to private treatment, to make more money, than on the NHS system, so the few NHS dentists there are are over subscribed

Denzelpuppy

05-06-2007, 8:53 AM

Can you say WHERE?!
Interesting as this thread is, it's real value will lie in sharing some information.
Theres a few other posts here also, saying XYZ is just great, but don't say WHERE in XYZ!

Not so much education, education, education, as information, information, information....that's what we need. That's what allows us to benefit from dental holidays.

Just a quick web link - then we can go see, check out prices, e mail, and make plans.

"This thread has been viewed 3579 times. "
- so it could be a great resource, IF we can get some more information.

here is the one I used in Budapest http://implantcentre.hu/

and some prices in £ & € as a guide, obviously some places will be cheaper and some more expensive BUT here is the cruncher, no matter where you go it will always be better and cheaper than the UK

Consultation. I £0
X-Ray £0 0 €
X-Ray / biting £0 0 €
X-Ray / Panoramic £0 0 €
Scaling and polishing £69 103 €
Filling I £48 72 €
Filling II £68 101 €
Temporary filling after root canal treatment £7 10 €
Filling removal £7 10 €
Inlay/ + Material price £180 270 €
Veneer £189 273 €
Root canal filling / 1 rooted tooth £69 103 €
Root canal treatment and filling - 2 canal £138 206 €
Root canal treatment and filling - 3 canal £207 309 €
Root canal treatment and filling - 4 canal £276 412 €
Composite bonding £33 48 €
Root canal filling after temp. filling £7 10 €
Buildup with a post £64 95 €
Extraction £31 47 €
Metal crown £69 103 €
Porcelain Crown fused to metal /Bridge /piece £169 253 €
Crown/Bridge anchored on implant £189 283 €
Plastic Crown £24 36 €
Jacket Krone £180 270 €
Procera Crown made in Sweden £338 507 €
Temporary crown / piece £24 36 €
Temporary prothesis £310 465 €
Crown removal £7 10 €
Bridge removal / crowns £7 10 €
Grinding surface refining £28 40 €
Gold material £70 104 €
Bite raising appliance £50 74 €
Wax up / tooth £20 30 €
Special attachments £166 249 €
Metal frame for prosthesis £414 621 €
Teeth for prosthesis/ piece £21 31 €
Implant and metal bar supported protheses £1600 2400 €
Complete upper or lower denture £310 465 €
Tooth whitening / tooth £35 50 €
Tooth whitening / home £104 156 €
Tooth whitening / clinic with Plasma lamp Zoom £380 570 €
Temporary clip up to 4 teeth £80 120 €
Long term temporary crowns / piece £50

lynzpower

05-06-2007, 9:23 AM

Toothsmith

05-06-2007, 9:55 AM

I was going to say that too!

Then there are 'extras' like 'removing crowns' and 'temporary crowns'.

The prices are probably cheaper than city centre 'cosmetic' practices, but nothing remarkable compared to high street UK dentists.

The Procera crown is only £25 cheaper than I charge!!! (All Procera crowns are made in Sweden)

A 1/2 hour Clean and Polish with my hygienist is £59.

When you add 'filling removal' to the 'filling' charge, then that would also work out similar to my charge.

I notice that the 'metal frame for a prosthesis' (denture) is charged seperately to the teeth, which seem to be £21 EACH! This again would make it similar to the majority of UK prices.

Root filling prices are not out of line with UK private prices, and then you must add in the removal of filling cost, temporary filling cost, and the final filling afterwards.

The implant cost IS cheaper, but nowhere near the 4x cheaper claimed early on in the thread, and there is no indication of other things like bone grafts and sinus lifts which are often needed as well, and are probably included in the UK 'quotes' written here.

I notice a 'wax-up' cost of £20 per tooth. This is also an essential diagnostic proceedure, and with 12-16 teeth in each jaw, could easily add £240 - £320 to most cosmetic proceedures (Assuming they're done correctly - which I'm sure they will be).

So - This is NOT a remarkably cheap price list Denzel. Had you looked around a bit in the UK, you could easily match it.

Toothsmith

05-06-2007, 9:57 AM

Or they are so busy, because most have gone to private treatment, to make more money, than on the NHS system, so the few NHS dentists there are are over subscribed

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Do you actually understand what you mean here??

justin_1975

05-06-2007, 4:48 PM

Me and my girlfriend were living in Laos and she managed to break a tooth, we took a trip to Bangkok where she went to the Mission Hospital. She had - a consultation one day, and the tooth rebuilt the following day and the cost was 12USD included some x-rays and aneasthetic. The dentist said that he was doing a temporary repair, but when we returned 2 years later to the UK her own dentist asked where she had had the work done as he could not believe how good the quality of the repair was and told her that it should last the rest of her life.

Denzelpuppy

05-06-2007, 5:37 PM

Denzelpuppy

05-06-2007, 5:48 PM

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Do you actually understand what you mean here??

yes perfectly what I'm saying here is that Dentists in the Uk are manipulating the system ie. the fewer NHS dentists there are then that means more people have to pay for private treatment which means more money in your pocket.

I notice you did not comment on my post about UK dentists keeping up with modern equipment and procedures? Mmmmmm why should a buy a Dental laser at £ 750,000 + and have to buy a cheaper car when i can use this old equipment and charge a fortune. Or why shouyld i hire an anethetist and have my income for using TIVA when i can use the old lidocaine at only a little cost? nah never mind the really nervous patients let em suffer.

This thread is about saving money and of course your going to defend your profession to the hilt, you'd be a fool not to BUT the treatment is cheaper in place like Hungary, Turkey, Thailand, etcetc.

Oh and by the way there is a place in Bulgaria that make the Procera crowns as well and they hadve the CAD machine to make them as well and offer Procera crowns fitted in 1 Day

Denzelpuppy

05-06-2007, 5:53 PM

Denzel

im quite surprised at some of these costs here, they dont actually seem overly cheap compared to the last dentist I went to in London. A scale and polish at 69 quid! I only paid 18 in london adn I thought that was steep, as I usually pay 11 in stockport.

I guess it works out cheap if you dont have to pay for the xrays... :confused:

It's like anything it's as cheap as you want it to be, these prices were good for me. It's like sitting on the plane going on holiday if you've booked your package holiday, the chances are you can all be going to the same resort and non of you pay the same price. there will be some that are cheaper, and some more expensive. I personnally think that so long as it's cheaper than here in the Uk then I've got a bargain, but and heres the rub, if I'd had bad treatment or wasn't happy with my treatment I'd have begrudged paying a pound let alone 3000

rosil

05-06-2007, 5:55 PM

Have been reading this thread and have to say that Toothsmith is probably the only one that seems to grasp the subject.
Was it RedFox who wrote something to the effect that the BDA stated that the standard of Hungarian dentistry is superior to that of the UK. If so please provide the reference.If you compare the standard of some NHS treatment then perhaps it is not as good as Hungarian dentistry but you would have to factor in the certainty that the Hungarian would be earning more . If only Red Fox appreciated how little is earned via the NHS. No disrespect to Plumbers but their hourly rate and call out charges are much higher-check it out Mr Fox
Years ago I saw dental work coming out of Bulgaria and Russia which was so poor with crowns like prefabricated tin cans, amalgam fillings on anterior teeth rootcanals filled with immovable cement. This was at a time when our NHS was providing a service. Now that the Eastern Europeans have access to materials and money their standards have improved and conversely our NHS has deteriorated to the old Bulgarian/Russian standards and before anybody challenges me this is not the fault of the NHS dentist but the fault of NHS dental funding. It has been years since there was a death from dental decay but many people are unfortunately suffering from an underfunded NHS in our hospitals. Dentistry under the NHS is looked upon as a luxury in the eyes of those who control the funding-should the NHS pay for crown and bridge work at the expense of depriving some child life saving treatment. There is sadly only limited money around and people have to become used to paying for (quality)dentistry

Denzelpuppy

05-06-2007, 6:28 PM

slinks

05-06-2007, 7:16 PM

has anyone got a recommendation for a dentist in malaysia please?? and approx cost, etc...

Toothsmith

05-06-2007, 10:07 PM

yes perfectly what I'm saying here is that Dentists in the Uk are manipulating the system ie. the fewer NHS dentists there are then that means more people have to pay for private treatment which means more money in your pocket.

I notice you did not comment on my post about UK dentists keeping up with modern equipment and procedures? Mmmmmm why should a buy a Dental laser at £ 750,000 + and have to buy a cheaper car when i can use this old equipment and charge a fortune. Or why shouyld i hire an anethetist and have my income for using TIVA when i can use the old lidocaine at only a little cost? nah never mind the really nervous patients let em suffer.

This thread is about saving money and of course your going to defend your profession to the hilt, you'd be a fool not to BUT the treatment is cheaper in place like Hungary, Turkey, Thailand, etcetc.

Oh and by the way there is a place in Bulgaria that make the Procera crowns as well and they hadve the CAD machine to make them as well and offer Procera crowns fitted in 1 Day

I am aware of no dental lasers that cost £3/4m!!! I'm not actually aware of any dental lasers that are of much use for many proceedures either!

You're aparently not aware either that 'hiring an anaesthetist' has been banned in this country for getting on for 7 years now.

All GA extractions in this country have to be carried out in an establishment with critical care facilities - i.e. local hospitals. Another completely idiotic regulation I know - as now we have kids with bad teeth having to wait months for an operating theatre to become available. The regulation was brought in as a knee jerk reaction without checking that there was capacity to cope with it!

It is possible to have a kidney transplant in a private hospital in the UK that would not be deemed suitable to take out a tooth under GA!

Are you sure about the PROCERA lab in Bulgaria? Is it not a CERAC machine you are confusing it with? This is a very similar CAD/CAM milling machine. I have two colleagues within 20 miles of me with these.

Toothsmith

05-06-2007, 10:23 PM

Now this might be the voice of ignorance But I always thought that the main reason was the goverment try to curb inflation and saw that the Dentists were earning above the limits imposed by them so created a new contract paying less for certain aspects of dentistry, to which they rejected it in large volumes and stuck to fingers up to the goverment and said sod this were going private only and getting rid of our NHS patients?

You're getting much closer to the real issue here! Well done.

Now - all these NHS and private patients.

We do not 'Get rid' of our NHS patients, and invite in some whole new cohort of Bentley driving toffs.

My 'Private' patients are exactly the same people as my NHS patients!

There are three types of patient. Dogs, Cats and Rats.

Dogs - Like you, like what you do, appreciate you understand you and are loyal. These patients listen to your arguments, generally have a pretty good idea of what's going on anyway, and are happy to stay with you. They are grateful for the time you've tried to stick with the NHS, and don't want to go elsewhere. Even if it means sacrificing some other luxury, they will stay with you.

Cats - Come to you because you're convienient. If you can show these patients that the practice changes will be in their best interests - they will sign up as private patients. If you can't - they won't. If they do - but then you let them down - again, they will be out the door.

Rats. - Come to you because they can't be bothered to go anywhere else. Have no idea of the issues and don't really care. Suddenly become an expert on the subject when it affects them personally, and disappear out of the front door like the proverbial rat out of an aquaduct when they think there's a chance it might just cost them a bit more. Generally writing an 'Angry of Mayfair' letter to the local rag as soon as they get home! (Oh - and these tend to be the wealthy patients!!)

When going private, you only need about half the patients you need in an NHS practice - as the increased fees mean you can decrease your workload (In fact, if you keep more than about 75% of the patients, you can be in trouble as you won't have much more time to give them).

So - 'Get rid' of the NHS patients - no, you just get rid of the rats and about half the cats. You then set about actually beginning to enjoy your job again, do good work, and have time to argue with numpties on message boards!

Great fun!

Denzelpuppy

05-06-2007, 11:16 PM

I am aware of no dental lasers that cost £3/4m!!! I'm not actually aware of any dental lasers that are of much use for many proceedures either!

You're aparently not aware either that 'hiring an anaesthetist' has been banned in this country for getting on for 7 years now.

All GA extractions in this country have to be carried out in an establishment with critical care facilities - i.e. local hospitals. Another completely idiotic regulation I know - as now we have kids with bad teeth having to wait months for an operating theatre to become available. The regulation was brought in as a knee jerk reaction without checking that there was capacity to cope with it!

It is possible to have a kidney transplant in a private hospital in the UK that would not be deemed suitable to take out a tooth under GA!

Are you sure about the PROCERA lab in Bulgaria? Is it not a CERAC machine you are confusing it with? This is a very similar CAD/CAM milling machine. I have two colleagues within 20 miles of me with these.

Well thats what they were advertising it as.

Denzelpuppy

05-06-2007, 11:21 PM

I am aware of no dental lasers that cost £3/4m!!! I'm not actually aware of any dental lasers that are of much use for many proceedures either!

mmmm theres a place in Southampton called the Smile Clinic that use Dental laser Drills http://www.stardent.co.uk/dentalsurgery.html I did look into this price seemed good as well £250 per hour BUT because my teeth are full of amalgum it can't be used on those particular teeth otherwise I'd have been straight down there

Toothsmith

06-06-2007, 7:55 AM

BUT because my teeth are full of amalgum it can't be used on those particular teeth otherwise I'd have been straight down there

Exactly my point!

It's an awful lot of money to spend on something you can't use on 95% of your patients!!

I notice that most of the 'treatments' they advertise it for are soft tissue treatments.

Under 'Crown and bridge' they say it's only used for gum contouring - which happens AFTER all the drilling with a normal drill!

Also, although it can target and just fry away decay (ALMOST painlessly it says - what does that mean??) for most filling materials in most cavities, a little bit of conventional drilling will still need to be done in order to get the cavity shape right for the material.

Drill-less dentistry is still a long way of, and lasers are still more gimmick than real use.

Denzelpuppy

06-06-2007, 8:07 AM

Exactly my point!

It's an awful lot of money to spend on something you can't use on 95% of your patients!!

I notice that most of the 'treatments' they advertise it for are soft tissue treatments.

Under 'Crown and bridge' they say it's only used for gum contouring - which happens AFTER all the drilling with a normal drill!

Also, although it can target and just fry away decay (ALMOST painlessly it says - what does that mean??) for most filling materials in most cavities, a little bit of conventional drilling will still need to be done in order to get the cavity shape right for the material.

Drill-less dentistry is still a long way of, and lasers are still more gimmick than real use.

but can you not see that demand drives technology forward, just like demand drives IT and computers forward, if Dentists dont push the boundries advances wont take place. If Kennedy hadn't wanted to go to the moon, then we'd be so much worse off today, all the things we wouldn't have. There is more computing power in your average car today than was onboard the lunar landing module. Anyway I digress, I feel we had better end this as we are never going to agree and you can't argue an opinion, you've got yours and i've got mine, and as this thread is supposed to be about saving money and tips and experiances we might start upsetting one or too.

Toothsmith

06-06-2007, 9:51 AM

I thought we were beginning to see things in a similar way!

I totally agree with most of what you have written above.

And I 'demand' a useful laser, and when it has been developed, I will certainly buy one. In the meantime, I have a duty to my patients not to waste their money on toys.

It is my professional duty not to be taken in by hype, and to evaluate the evidence for or against a particular technique or treatment and only use it when I am convinced it is of benefit.

This IS moneysaving!

There is NO demand for new technology coming from the NHS dental service! They're on their way back to the 50s with an increasing number of extractions and dentures!

If, as some on this thread want, the only demand in this country is for CHEAP dentistry, then there won't be any demand for mega thousand £ bits of tackle in this country either!

lesleyfb

06-06-2007, 12:38 PM

I'd like a full facelift, a neck lift and upper eyelids done plus maybe a brow lift. Just about anywhere is cheaper than the UK but does anyone have a recommedation for the safest most reputable place to get the above done.
Any suggestions welcome. Thanks.

wostok02

06-06-2007, 2:06 PM

Anyone else a little dubious about the recomendations on here from people who've never posted before and/or only joined today?? :rolleyes:

But I am interested in dental implants in hungary so if anyone else who doesn't have a vested interest (not suggesting those who have mentioned it fall into the above catergory) wants to share their expierience be good to here how you got on.;)

My friend who is Hungarian is recommending her place. The Dentist is the one she uses herself and is based in Debrecen in the east of Hungary.
They speak English and have a website so maybe worth a look. www.naturdent.hu
email: nemcsenyi@fogorvos.com. :D

wostok02

06-06-2007, 2:17 PM

wostok02

06-06-2007, 2:17 PM

drpachu

06-06-2007, 2:30 PM

Hi
I am a Medic from India and regularly visit India for seeing family.This means I keep my dental and other physical check ups pending till my visit.I find it lot easy,cheap,quick and convinient this way as I know lot of my collegaues and friends in the industry!All I have to do is walk in and get it done!Of course for the fraction of the cost here.
I also get my eyesight checked and lenses renewed.

drpachu

06-06-2007, 2:31 PM

forgot to tell you..
And Goa and Kerala is close by where I go to!

musty

06-06-2007, 6:33 PM

Hi
Every when I go to Algeria, I have a full medical health done by a cardiologist. This includes a full range of test (blood, ecg, scanner, etc). I do pay for it but it is a mere 15 GBP and you can get an appointment within 2*3 days. The standars is surprisingly high. To do the same thing in England, you may have to go private as it is next to impossible to convince my GP + it would take months to have less than a comprehensive test.

I appreciate that Algeria is not exactly in the top destinations but I just want to share my experience.

TurnaroundSue

06-06-2007, 6:38 PM

Toothsmith - I notice that most of the dentists abroad put their prices on their websites (and they seem much of a muchness) - could you please list your prices so I could have some comparables and also are most UK dentists around the same, or do they each have their own price lists? Many thanks

Toothsmith

06-06-2007, 8:29 PM

Sure - The following is my price list. It's worth pointing out that the vast majority of my patients are on Denplan, and so pay a monthly fee, which means my 'price list' is largely irrelevant to them. The only time they would pay me anything extra would be for cosmetic treatments (Like tooth whitening) or the technicians fee should they need anything involving labwork (Crowns, bridges, dentures etc)

Different dentists will have their own price lists, largely dependant on the area they practice, and level of training etc.

************************************************** ****

Initial Exam- £75.00
Routine Exam - £40.00

Cleaning:
With dentist £37.00
Hygienist visit £56.00

Fillings:
Amalgam **** from £63.00
Composite **** from £71.00

Root Fillings:
Front Teeth £147.50
Back Teeth £262.50

Crowns:
Many types from £300 - £650

Dentures:
Full Acrylic from £600.00
Partial Acrylic from £245.00
Metal based from £450

Extractions £78.00
Out of Hours call out fee £70.00

Treatment of Gum Disease:
A course of hygienist visits to chart and treat gum problems £320.00

Tooth Whitening:
Single tooth £120.00
Single Arch £200.00
Whole Mouth £340.00

forbern

06-06-2007, 11:08 PM

I am new to posting on this site, but I felt I must mention dentistry abroad. I went to Spain for a two week holiday. While there I was able to get a new set of dentures made in 8 Days! This was great as I couldnt even get a dentist where I live. They are good fitting, and good quapity workmanship. I know where I will be going for my next ones. Theye werent cheap but far superior than any I have had in the past 30 years

suzy g

07-06-2007, 6:36 PM

bubbleandsqueak

08-06-2007, 9:14 AM

We visit Bangkok regularly and a few years ago started going to the Dentist there. The clinic we use is superb, like a 5 star hotel complete with small cafe. The care and skill they have is unbelievable. I had to have a bridge replaced, which requires several hours in a dentist chair (or fully reclining, ergonomic leather bed in this case!) and I was so comfortable and relaxed I fell asleep during the treatment. The cost was a fraction of the U.K. and we used an expensive clinic, we could have saved even more had we used a cheaper alternative. The treatment has been praised very highly by my U.K. dentist. Interestingly, they identified extensive problems with my husband's teeth, which our dentist in the U.K. had not seen, or bothered to treat and this has resulted in our taking the practice to court.

ashu

08-06-2007, 11:32 AM

I have been recommended to visit Dr Thomas, Doctors Dental Clinic in Trivandrum, Sth India. Have planne to visit in November. Has anyone any experience? His emails seem very very genuine with a 15 yr promise on Crowns or replacement if they break.

Hello!

A word of advice:

Do not get treatment done in clinics. They are private, small time businesses. If something untoward happens, who is there to protect you? Nobody....irrespective of what you might have been told.

Go to a place like Delhi or Bombay in India ....famous for good hospitals.

Go to recognised hospitals, like Indraprastha Apollo (locations: Delhi, etc) or Fortis (locations: Noida (suburb of Delhi), Mohali, etc).

I dunno abt hospitals in Bombay...have heard abt 'Breach Candy' being an excellent hospital......but do not know whether they undertake dental surgeries or not.
Check it out.

Regards
Ashu

ashu

08-06-2007, 1:40 PM

Hello!

A word of advice:

Do not get treatment done in clinics. They are private, small time businesses. If something untoward happens, who is there to protect you? Nobody....irrespective of what you might have been told.

Go to a place like Delhi or Bombay in India ....famous for good hospitals.

Go to recognised hospitals, like Indraprastha Apollo (locations: Delhi, etc) or Fortis (locations: Noida (suburb of Delhi), Mohali, etc).

I dunno abt hospitals in Bombay...have heard abt 'Breach Candy' being an excellent hospital......but do not know whether they undertake dental surgeries or not.
Check it out.

Regards
Ashu

Lara

08-06-2007, 9:40 PM

mandy_44

08-06-2007, 10:05 PM

Anyone else a little dubious about the recomendations on here from people who've never posted before and/or only joined today?? :rolleyes:

But I am interested in dental implants in hungary so if anyone else who doesn't have a vested interest (not suggesting those who have mentioned it fall into the above catergory) wants to share their expierience be good to here how you got on.;)

I guess you and I are alike, the first thing I noticed were the posts from new people or people that have only written that one post. Worried these are adverts and not genuine!!

Toothsmith

09-06-2007, 9:37 AM

I would seriously like to get my teeth whitened and ny amalagram fillings changed over to white fillings. I have about six teeth with these in.
Would welcome any suggestions re costs etc either home or away.
Incidentally our dentist changed over to Denplan but as I don't usually need anything done I decided to opt out of the £20 a month charge. Seemed silly to pay £240 a year when I usually only pay £15.00 x 2 = £30.

It's not going to stay at £15 x 2 though.

What's his new private check-up charge? And how much extra for a clean & polish? That's the fee you have to x 2 and then look at how that compares to £240 pa. Bearing in mind that you will also be covered for accidents and emergencies on the Denplan cover. Also, as and when fillings wear out, you will be able to have them changed for white ones.

I would never recommend having perfectly good fillings drilled out and replaced just for the sake of it.

Lara

09-06-2007, 12:03 PM

Hi Toothsmith :)
I now go to another NHS dentist just round the corner from the private one. The Hygienist there is excellent whereas at the private one she is a monster :mad: . Private dentist hygienist charges £30 and NHS one charges the same. So no difference there. Hygienist charges are NOT included in the private plan.
Private dentist charges £65 check up fee every six months. So you see it doesn't pay me to go back to him. We have however kept our Uni son there as he had to have all four wisdom teeth out in one hit exactly one year ago next Wednesday and we felt it better to keep him there so any further problems could be sorted. Dentist is a very nice man but our wallets are not overflowing. Therefore paying out £60 a month for three mouths is not an option espeically as we do not have a regular income anymore.

curly92

09-06-2007, 12:44 PM

:cool:
Not really but would like to get laser eye operation done.
Both my friend and me are contact lense wearers and wondered where we could go for a safe and cheap treatment.
Any recommendations and what shall we bear in mind re risks and dangers?:confused:

Read my blogs at.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=194675&page=2

http://turkisheyes.blogspot.com/

Toothsmith

09-06-2007, 1:05 PM

Hi Toothsmith :)
Private dentist hygienist charges £30 and NHS one charges the same. So no difference there.

NHS one SHOULD be included in with the band 1 NHS charge of £15.65 ish.

Your original dentist has decided he can't stick with the NHS contract and has gone private. Your new one has decided he can't make the NHS contract work either, so breaks it.

Was your original dentist charging 'privately' for hygienist appointments as well?

If so - he was probably pulled up on it by his PCT and told he MUST offer hygienist on the NHS - as that's what it says in his contract. That's probably what made him go private properly.

The same thing will probably happen soon at your new dentist if the PCT get wind that he's defrauding the NHS.

amabel

09-06-2007, 2:14 PM

What clinic in Chiang Mai did you use?

Apologies for the delay in replying. We used the Grace Clinic with Dr Korakot in charge. They're web site is: http://www.gracedentalclinic.com/

Lara

09-06-2007, 4:37 PM

NHS one SHOULD be included in with the band 1 NHS charge of £15.65 ish.
Your original dentist has decided he can't stick with the NHS contract and has gone private. Your new one has decided he can't make the NHS contract work either, so breaks it.
Was your original dentist charging 'privately' for hygienist appointments as well?
If so - he was probably pulled up on it by his PCT and told he MUST offer hygienist on the NHS - as that's what it says in his contract. That's probably what made him go private properly.
The same thing will probably happen soon at your new dentist if the PCT get wind that he's defrauding the NHS.
NHS dentist quite happily will clean teeth etc but you have the option of seeing the Hygienist for a 30 min thorough appointment. Going privately is still not worth it for me.

greeneye

10-06-2007, 11:40 PM

I guess you and I are alike, the first thing I noticed were the posts from new people or people that have only written that one post. Worried these are adverts and not genuine!!

Yea but thinking I might have been a bit cynical to start with.
There have been posts on this thread from people who do have affiliations with dental practices which they have admitted to. And I've had 3 PM's from people giving me their phone number to give them a call - they may be genuine, might give them a call next week.

But someone else posted on this thread about people joining the forum after recieving the newsletter. I imagine there's a lot of people who are on the weekly MSE newsletter email who have never bothered to join the forums before and post, which may well explain the newbies with reccomendations to make.

Wondering Toothsmith if your a little concerend about people getting quotations from you for major dental work establishing what needs doing and then going abroad to get the work done?
A bit like travel agents being in uproar a while ago about customers walking in working out where and which resort they wanted to go on holiday and then going to the internet to get the cheapest price.
If you are I wouldn't blame you for being annoyed.

Actually thinking of doing this myself got a dental appointment this week. So going to get him to reccomend a colleague for some implants etc. Thinking I'll just establish exactly what can be / needs to bo done and then go abroad. Unless of course he really sells himself to me - because I do take some of your concerns on board.

Joannaclaire

12-06-2007, 5:18 PM

I travelled overseas to have our baby. After experiencing rushed antenatal care and seeing friends in appallingly filthy hospitals here in the UK I opted to go to Australia and have our baby there privately to avoid shared wards, lack of midwives, lack of post natal care etc.

I have health insurance over there as I live there part of the year. All up it cost far less that private maternity care in London, even if I'd had to pay in full and didn't have the insurance. The hospital was like a hotel, my obstetrician was wonderful and if we have another baby we'll definitely do it all again.

tomell

12-06-2007, 8:03 PM

Does any one have experience of this type of work abroad and if so how was it and approx cost etc.

Cheers.

BarneyRubble

12-06-2007, 8:24 PM

Just as an aside to all this:-

If someone goes abroad to get some proceedure done that they don't want to pay for in this country, and it all goes pear shaped, should the British taxpayer - via the NHS - be called upon to pay for putting it right?

This could also extent to private cosmetic surgery in this country.

Should people take responsibility for their choices if it goes wrong and ends up costing much more?

Should the proceedures be insured?

kwaichi

12-06-2007, 9:42 PM

Where do I start? I edited a video about 4 months ago documenting a year of dental treatment in hungary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKbXnO4GUxc

It's not perfect but if you watch the video you will see that the reason why I went over in the first place was not just for economical sense but also because I fear dentists over here in the UK. It was because of my dentist in London that I needed an implant in the first place. If i had gone with the NHS it would have cost me £1800 just for the implant. I paid 1000 euros all in. the equipment they use out there is superior and things like x rays and fillings have all been free. I've only had to pay for flights, the lump sum and hotel. Not all cosmetic treatment is a luxury. I work as an actor and can't do with a huge gaping whole in the front of my smile.

My dental work was good but I got an infection before they fitted my permanent crown. By that time they had opened a clinic in Harley Street, so we started the implant process again all in London as part of my 10 year guarantee (inc with any implant work). I have not paid anything more in fees apart from that one off fee (1000 euros). I was just there today getting my impressions made for my crown to go on my implant. I have had 2nd and 3rd opinions from dentists in Sydney and the UK and they like the work they have seen so far. I went with dentistabroad.co.uk. the only thing I don't like is when they all talk in a foreign language in front of you so you have no idea what they are talking about. Apart from that it's fine.

I was confident of treatment abroad before my dental work. I used to live in Frankfurt and all medical care there is private. All doctors there are also specialists in their field which I now prefer. For instance you would see a dermatologist for your skin problems and a Urologist for your peeing problems. I have tried getting my GP to refer me to a dermatologist here but they will not budge. I therefore routinely go abroad for checkups and treatment. I find myself self medicating through my GP (telling my GP what I should have) rather than being tested and treated properly.

My dermatologist in Frankfurt is Dr Pomer (French who also speaks fluent English and German) who charges about 50 euros for a consultation. the phone number is 069 297 9876 and the address is Rathenau Platz 2-8. Unfortunately the Germans don't really bother with their websites! My Urologist charges about 200 euros for an initial checkup and then about 50 euros after that - it is VERY thorough! I have a special diet prescribed to me to give you an idea. anyway his name is Dr Dunzendorfer and his details are 069 2980140, Zeil 65-69.

My girlfriend is From Sydney and I have also worked there and the health service out there is far superior to the UK. The great thing about the nhs is that it's pretty much free. On the other hand it's totally rubbish. My sister lives in thailand and had her baby in a private hospital. She bought a package for about £200 and that was basically a 2 week pre and post pamper & delivery package. The hospital is state of the art and £200 is a lot of money over there so it does create a 2 tier system in their healthcare service. don't forget that some of that money does filter down to clinics which provide free treatment to the people who can't afford it though. It also means that doctors are not tempted to just work abroad in countries like England which totally neglects care in their own country. It is probably the best compromise socially in this world for now...

theredfox

12-06-2007, 11:26 PM

Excellent.

This is what we need - this is what this discussion is essentially about: information, advice, and recommendations. I shan't bother any more with debating about the subject - doesn't seem much point.

I need some relatively minor work, and see no reason to support the increasingly inflated profits of UK dentistry/Rip Off UK. Chiang Mai looks quite good, Hungary totally reliable though not the most inexpensive option, I'm still waiting to get some advice about South Africa, and Goa - places I've never been, where I'd enjoy a dental holiday : )

monicabb

13-06-2007, 11:41 PM

Since returning from Budapest with my Husband after our last vist to the Kreativ Dental Clinic I can put hand on my heart say that having my dental treatment abroad is one of the best decisions i've made in my life. We've saved money, made great friends, uncovered a beautiful city and I can finally smile and show my teeth off without feeling self concious... Everyone at Kreativ Dentist Clinic in Hungary (http://www.kreativdental.co.uk) was superb. My husband also had treatment and we cant stop smiling... you can probably tell we're happy....
If more people new about places like the Kreativ Dental Clinic (http://www.kreativdental.co.uk) I'm sure more and more people would choose to save money like we did.
Good luck to anyone else that goes down the dental tourism road, I cant recommend it enough.

Monica

chinup

16-06-2007, 1:55 PM

i smell spam. yuk

harryhound

16-06-2007, 2:46 PM

You have to think like a moneysaver to understand this.

Q How big is the National Health Service in Britain/England's health market?
A It has a HUGE demand, because the service it provides is massively subsidised.

Q Does the NHS specify top of the range products or does it provide something that is a standardised minimum adequate product bought at a knock down price because of its massive purchasing power?
A. You can answer that for yourself.

Q. Name a European country famous for providing millions of units of a small digital product?
A. That is a trick question, I'll come back to it.

Q If you were the Government of that country, would you try to promote the economic well being of the firm(s) that made you a world leading country in a particular industry? Perhaps by encouraging Government expenditure to go towards the home grown firm.
A Yes.

Q. Is Britain/England a leading producer of digital hearing aids?
A. I don't think so.

The digital product and country I had in mind is Nokia mobile phones and Finland. However Denmark is in a similar situation when it comes to Digital Hearing aids.

Here in the UK the majority of the population get a minimum adequate aid via the NHS; those that want something a bit better and more expensive get ripped off, partly because they are so few and sold to by foreign suppliers.

The Danish market is almost certainly gets steered towards a better home grown product. For someone fitting hearing aids in Denmark, taking on a marginal extra number of cash buyers from the UK, attracted by a discount, is a profitable proposition.

Try this web site:

http://www.hca.dk/engelsk/indexen.htm

[A relative of mine finally accepted that his hearing was failing, so he answered an ad in a magazine. I'm sure he got a nice receptionist and potted palms in the reception BUT what did the salesman know about fitting aids and motivating pensioners to use them, as against cashing his commission cheque?
What I do know is that he could have got the same kit in Denmark for half the 4 figure sum he paid for it on the South coast of England].

It would be interesting to hear chapter & verse from someone who has used this service.

Harry.

Dr Hicks

17-06-2007, 10:14 AM

Well,

Just finished reading all these interesting posts and as a Dentist i find them a little worrying. Not the fact that people are going abroad for dentistry, more the fact that british dentistry seems to have let so many people down.

Unfortunately chronic under investment by the NHS and the fact that the NHS has not kept up with modern advances means that many dentists are stuck in a time warp (circa 1960-70). The only way to get out of this financial and technical rut is to become a private practitioner.

With regards to dentists being complimentary regarding another dentists work..........isn't that just professionalism?

With regards to people finding the foriegn surgeries technically advanced...........isn't that just relative to the lack of investment in UK clinics?

With regards to the success rates quoted here............how many people are going to admit to going abroad and getting poor treatment? (not many i assume), and how many people are going to post back in 12 years to say there bridge/crown is still faring well? ........ this is the average you would expect.

With regards to the cost differences.........well, i cannot argue with that, we dentists do like to be paid, but then so do doctors (120k + a year), solicitors (80+k year) and vets (100+k year).

Just some thoughts that i had after going through all your posts.

If anyone wants to pm me regarding any treatment they are thinking of undertaking then pelase do so. Please don't think this is a sales pitch........i just love talking about teeth :D

Stuart.

P.S. Yahoo to money saving!!!!:money:

Dr Hicks

17-06-2007, 11:00 AM

...........

Oh, and just one last thought.......

Who is going to look after all this work? 90%+ of the UK population have some form of gum disease (bleeding gums, receding gums, halotosis, funny/bad taste in mouth, wobbly teeth) which means that:

a) It is not wise to consider advanced dental treatment if your gums are unhealthy, and as it takes a considerable amount of time to get gums healthy, are the dentists abroad going to correct this first?........i doubt it as it takes multiple visits, and will they turn you away if you are not suitable for treatment?......i doubt that too as they have booked aside time in their clinic to see you, so if they turn youa way it is lost revenue.

b) any dental treatment will ultimately fail if this is not corrected, and lets face it, if you are having to seek complicated treatment this already puts you in a high risk group of needing more treatment in the future.

Sorry for not including this in the above post, only thought of it whilst i was having a bath (sorry for the mental image).

Stuart.

northsea

18-06-2007, 4:08 PM

you have so depressed me! I have been thrashing about with ideas of going to Goa or Hungary for dental treatment when there seems to be very little point! Yes I have gaps, crowns with decay under, infections and wobbly teeth with gum disease... of course there is no miracle cure! The truth hurts but you are right, I have terminal teeth! Damn. What is one to do?

Jarvisma

18-06-2007, 4:20 PM

Just to put my two pennies worth in....

I am not a new poster (read: marketing exec) with no posts so this is a genuine personal experience not a sales pitch!

I have had ver crooked teeth ever since I can remember and they always made me incredibly paranoid about my looks. I never smiled or laughed with my mouth open. I was quoted about 8 or 9 grand to have all the work done I wanted here, so I went down the Hungary route and got all the work done there in November last year. I can honestly say it was the best thing I've ever done. :D

The trip was really easy ( it helped that I live very close to Gatwick) but I was really looked after and considering I went on my own (as a 20 something female) I always felt in very safe hands.

Overall the cost came to around £1500 including flights etc. I'd be happy to give any more details anyone wants if they PM me.

I'm going back next month too as I'd rather go there for a check up & some minor work than go through the hassle of finding a dentist here!

theredfox

18-06-2007, 10:49 PM

I'm a bit tired of dentists coming here talking condescending obvious stuff about the risks, etc, when their interests are very clear: don't go abroad, stay here, and even better, come to me (because I need that new Ferrari/Tuscan Villa/diamond ring).

Cheap flights and internet communication make this a new world, a new situation: substantial money can be saved because we are no longer tied to expoitative dentistry prices and Rip Off UK. You started it, by abandoning the NHS and seeking even greater salaries in the private sector. We - the consumer - will finish it by embracing that capitalist logic and finding more reasonable charges. Hungary seems a particularly good idea, and with a bit of research even better deals can be found going further afield.

Jarvisma

19-06-2007, 3:20 PM

I just had to say I've had a very big surprise this morning....

I've had tooth ache for a couple of days so thought I would try and phone around to find a dentist and get an apt. I wasn't expecting much as I would have to register (I have posted above that I've had alot of work done abroad recently) but I called my PCT who gave me the number of a dentist 2 miles away.

I called them and I have an appointment at 4.15 this afternoon! Going on all the bad press in the last year or more there was no way I was expecting that but I have been pleasantly surprised.

(I'll hold complete judgement untill I've been though!)

Dr Hicks

20-06-2007, 10:19 PM

*sigh

Please re-read my post mr fox. in no way was i implying that going abroad for dentla treatment was a bad thing BUT i do think that good dentistry is a case of prevention. The 'wait till it's broke then go abroad' option is only one way to go.

re Dentists pay...........i think you are a tad out of date. We dentists had a great deal under the NHS in the 80's which allowed us to drive nice fast cars and ahve expensive villas, but those days have long since gone (Unfortunately as i was 15 at the time :( ). Yes we get well paid but it is nothing compared to a doctors salary........120k minimum and how helpful are they?

Northsea.....sorry to depress you, not my intention, merely pointing out some flaws in seeking advanced treatment abroad, and then coming back home and doing !!!! all to look after it.

I reiterate.....dental treatemnt abroad is not a bad thing BUT all dentistry needs to be placed in a healthy mouth and then MAINTAINED!!!

Sorry for your cynicism Fox :(

Thanks again.

Stuart

Jarvisma

21-06-2007, 10:30 AM

Sorry, but I have to say I don't agree with your opinion of what the problems are.

I've been for dentistry abroad, purely for the cost implications as stated above. When I came home, I most certainly maintained the care and cleanliness of my teeth and as I said in my last post I was very happy to be able to see a UK dentist here for a minor tooth ache (which was really just sensitivity and has passed now) and scale & polish etc.

My happiness was short lived unfortunately, I arrived at the dentist and was treated with no more respect than faulty goods on a conveyor belt - until that is I mentioned that I would be interested in having some cosmetic work done privately!

I'm not begrudging those dentists who choose to go private for a better income, after all why shouldn't they. In my opinion the government should provide enough incentives for dentists to treat NHS patients, which evidently at the moment they don't.

The dentist I saw spoke hardly any English, was dismissive when I said my tooth was hurting and wasn't in the slightest bit interested in my comfort the whole time I was there.

In contrast, the dentist I saw in Hungary was extremely patient and kind, stopping regularly to see if I was ok and comfortable. Listened to exactly what I had to say and always talked to me and explained what he was doing before he did it.

Proof that for me it isn't even all about cost, is that I for one would rather pay a £150 air fare and travel for 3 hours to visit the dentist in Hungary that treats me like a valuable patient, than pay £15 and go round the corner to see a dentist that quite frankly gives the impression that I'm nothing more than a nuisance! :mad:

Sorry Dr Hicks, but I think you're fighting a losing battle. :cry:

TurnaroundSue

21-06-2007, 9:47 PM

As previously stated in my post, I have had veneers/crowns done by a UK dentist and he showed no interest in talking to me about gum problems etc (unless I am one of the lucky 10% who have healthy gums!!!) as Dr Hicks has said and really showed no interest in that side of dentistry. He just went along with what I wanted, with hardly any advice (see previous posting) and very little since. I lost all confidence in him and am seriously considering going abroad - It's not only about cost, but also it appears from my experience they can't be any worse than the UK dentists I have encountered.

Dr Hicks

22-06-2007, 6:47 AM

*sigh............

It seems you may be correct Jarvisma, i may truly be fighting a losing battle. There is no excuse (not even financial ones) for treating ones patients like a set of teeth rather than a person....i am very sorry, and very embarassed that your experiences have been so poor .

Turnaroundsue........thank you for your comments too, to do any cosmetic work and not treat any existing gum disease, or even discuss it, is not the way to go in my opinion. You are right to have lost faith.

I stand by the comments i have made in previous posts, but those comments depend on you finding a good dentist to carry them out, and if that good dentist is in hungary then so be it.

My only advcie can be.........always go on a personel recommendation when finding a dentist.

I would like to thank you for not being cynical about my motives, and again extend my offer to pm me with any queries.

Thank you,

Stuart.

sscrabble

02-07-2007, 3:55 PM

I am looking to have , most probably, a full top set of implants. From what I have read the treatment for this is usually to give you six, eight or ten implants and fix what is in effect a reduced denture, ie the implants have some 'gum' around them but not the horrible plate on the roof of your mouth. Having the work done in the UK is out of the question - the costs are just too much - I am confident from reading dozens of feedbacks that treatment abroad with rare exceptions is as good as or superior to the UKs - I am also sure that there would be dozens of horror stories online if treatment abroad was as dodgy as some posters make out.

So my questions
Budapest seems a popular choice for the work - is it the best or are they all pretty much the same - and is anywhere significantly better value?

I had most of my top teeth out 30 years ago due to a butcher of a dentist- I have managed to keep my three remaining top teeth for all that time, but according to my dentist there time is coming to an end - (a)could implants be worked round them until they go, or would it be advisable o have them out and have the full set (b) because of the 30 years , is it still likely that there will be sufficient bone to implant successfully - I have a BIG face and I am male if that has any relevance.

Are there any dentists abroad who would be able to give me a 'probable' yes or no to whether treatment is possible if I take digital photos of my mouth, just to save a long trip for an initial consultation to be given an immediate and conclusive no!

Dr Hicks

03-07-2007, 10:55 PM

So ......no advice from me scrabs (being only a uk dentist)? Ho hum...one can only offer :)

Jarvisma

04-07-2007, 10:04 AM

Are there any dentists abroad who would be able to give me a 'probable' yes or no to whether treatment is possible if I take digital photos of my mouth, just to save a long trip for an initial consultation to be given an immediate and conclusive no!

Yes. The company I went with offered several choices of how you wanted to proceed with your treatment.

First was to go out for a few days, see the clinic, and go ahead with the treatment on your visit.

Second was to go out for a day or two, see the clinic and have a consultation only. Then go away to think about it and book to return for treatment.

Third is to send a good quality digital photograph for assesment and recieve a rough treatment plan. Then arrange to visit the clinic & have treatment as and when necessary.

I went for the second option and was more than pleased. The clinic is in Budapest and I chose it just because I was drawn to it more than some other destinations for various reasons (not all financial) things like the quality of the website and responses I had had from the staff etc.

This was the company I went with (and am going back to in a couple of weeks) www.smilesavershungary.co.uk

sscrabble

05-07-2007, 4:53 PM

Thanks for those replies.
Stuart - I would have nothing against using a UK dentist - I just cannot afford the prices - my treatment abroad maybe say £4000, but in the UK it would be £10,000+ - I understand why it is that price, but I just have not got that kind of spare cash!
The biggest problem is who to go to and which Country - Hungary, Poland, Goa - everyone on chat lines speaks well of everywhere - I have not found one real warning against using anyone, and I am sure anyone who felt aggrieved at their treatment would be making it widely known online! I suppose the best option might be to go to someone that is near a resort I can book a two week package holiday to if anyone has any suggestions ??

mydentistgoa

11-07-2007, 8:47 AM

Let me intoduce myself as a Dental surgeon practicing in Goa- India for the past 10 years. Some of my patients are part of this forum and advised me to join the forum to advise people willing to travel to Goa to undergo dental treatment there. A lot of enquiries are sent every day to my surgery as well as to other surgeries in Goa by British nationals and plenty visit this part of the world only for dental treatment. There has been a surge in the number of UK national visiting Goa for dental and medical treatment during the past 3-4 years.

As far as the costing and quality of teatment the cost of treatment here is about 1/4 th the cost patients would incur back home whereas the standard of dentistry in most of the surgeries here is World Class. India does not manufacture any or most of the dental products / materials used in dentistry and the same are imported from Europe, USA and some from Japan and Australia. Most if not all of the equipments are Imported from the above places. Therefore Quality is assured. What remains variable in the costing between Goa and the UK or other parts of Europe are the overheads. We in Goa do have lower overheads and possibly operate on lower professional fee stucture. The difference in the fees could be attributed to this account.

Let us take the example of Denatl implants. It cost Approx. £ 2000 in the UK. The same in our surgeries will be appro. £ 500. The implants used in my surgery are from Nobelbiocare being one of the best dental implant companies in the World which provide with a lifetime moneyback guarantee on the implants placed. Since the cost of procuring implants for the dentist would be the same in Goa as well as in the UK the fee stucture would vary due to the difference in professional fees structure. The Dentists in the UK will have a valid reason to charge the fees that they do and would know their economics and costing the best.
As far as travel and accomodation is concerned patients travelling to Goa should merge their dental treatment plans with their holiday to this part of the world which is reputed of being one of best destination for Sun holidays having a range of Holiday Resorts to cater to individual needs.

It would be my endeavor to throw some light on the dental treatment options available in India and Goa in particular through this forum. Any of you could write your question through the open forum or PM me.

Toothsmith

11-07-2007, 10:05 AM

Is it the equipment and materials that assure the quality, or the skill and training of the dentist?

What percentage of your patients, who, having travelled all the way to Goa, do you assess as being unsuitable for treatment due to poor bone quality (Something that is impossible to assess until the patient is actually with you) or medical or personal care reasons?

What is your failure rate, and how do people fly back nearly halfway around the world with painful failing implants?

There has indeed been a surge in people seeking treatment abroad. There has been a corresponding surge in this country of dentists having to repair the damage done to people who have had totally unsuitable treatments carried out.

I am sure that you personally provide excellent and suitable treatments. The fact remains though, that you operate in a country virtually devoid of any regulation of the dental profession.

There are no regulations on who can be a dentist (You don't even need an basic training) there are no regulations on qualifications to provide advanced treatments, there are no regulations on cross infection control. There is no compulsion to have any professional insurance. Ther are no regulations on the qualifications for your support staff or indeed how much they are paid.

kaya

11-07-2007, 11:05 AM

Well i guess it looks like that old "you pays your money and takes your choice" thing again, i hate going near a dentist, have to be put to sleep, as a result my teeth are minging and need sorting out which i realise is entirely my own fault, my experience with dentists in the uk on the few times i have braved a visit have not been pleasurable, the last nhs one a few years back took 4 teeth out from the bottom because one was loose, and asked me if he could take the top front four out also, although they werent a problem,my girlfriend at the time was a dental nurse and was horrified, butchery was a term she used, i now need lotsa work doing, in the uk this would be a five figure sum, ill take my chances abroad i think, unless any uk dentist reading this wants to haggle for some business?, you can get money off tellys and cars if you haggle so why not, toothsmith cant have much work on as he seems to have a lot of spare time on his hands for posting, fancy a bid?:-)

mydentistgoa

11-07-2007, 12:48 PM

Well, If Toothsmith wants to talk about quality then we could debate on the same and compare that front between the two countries. I have not entered this forum to get into arguments or to belittle others. I have seen plenty of patients from the UK on whom the treatment done was of shocking quality and I have their photographic and radiographic records for anyone to see.

If you are talking of bone quality and other evaluations, let me inform you that we always state that the final treatment plan will be finalised and be carried out only on clinical evaluation. This is made very clear to patients in reply to their email or phone calls for the treatment plan. We request the patients to send us a copy of their OPG x-ray and any other records that they may posses. We have to alter the treatment plan in 5-7 % of patients on to clinical evaluation.
Failure in implants cannot be ruled out. In my practice I have had a success rate of 95% . The failures have been immediate and the same repeated free of any cost to the patients on their next visit.
To clear your ignorance in the matter I would like to state that we do have regulating body namely Dental Council of India which regulates the practicing dentists in India. We cannot and I repeat cannot practice in this country without the necessary registration and certificate of practice issued by the Dental Council of India. You have mentioned about cross-infection controll protocol. In my practice we follow the strictest cross-infection control protocol. This has been seen and aproved by some of your colleagues who have visited my practice. There have been some from the medical fraternity who have been to my practice for dental treatment and were satisfied after seeing the sterilisation protocol. I am sure that a similar protocol is followed by other surgeries in Goa as we are trained in the same dental school.

About Qualifications and payment to dental staff they are all trained in as dental attendants. Insuarance, salaries to staff etc are not related to quality of treatment.

I can only state that even at our economy the oral health conditions of majority of the population in Goa superior to that in your country. This is primarily because quality dental treatment facilities are available to them at affordable prices. We have dental health centres run by the local government which provides the population with free dental treatment. the equipment there is also of reasonable standard namely dental units from Kavo and like.

Please let us not use this forum to hit at each other, rather use it to educate the patients on the various options available to them. The patients do have to travel half the globe to reach India but if in the end if they are to get quality dental treatment then its worth a holiday here.

If time permits You too visit Goa and some of your misconceptions on dental treatment abroad could be cleared. I hope I have not offended or hurt your sentiments in any way.

sscrabble

13-07-2007, 12:09 AM

toothsmith

I can understand you saying foreign dentists might mean trouble, but where is the proof? I have spent days surfing on here , tripadvisor , google and anywhere else I could, and wherever anyone has commented on their treatment they are virtually always delighted - if there treatment was rubbish they would be posting that info everywhere, just like they do with holidays, banks, and any other service that people get. Feel free to prove me wrong and post the links to forums that are complaining about treatment, and especially implants, abroad.

The only problem I am having is picking which one to go to !!

iain_60

20-07-2007, 10:30 PM

Hi,

My wife and I travelled to Hungary for treatment we used Kreativdental (http://www.kreativdental.co.uk)as well and were very happy.

See my post here http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=5742317 for full details.

Good luck

Iain

trevorstreet

27-07-2007, 8:57 PM

I must assure all you guys who consider going to Goa India to get any kind of dental work done then please go ahead and book your holiday as they are highly skilled and professional.
I have been pleased with the results of work done on me mainly dental implants and bridges.
My dentist Dr.Varun Carvalho is located at Mobor Cavelossim Goa.
My partner had her teeth whitened and is pleased with the results.

beingjdc

29-07-2007, 3:56 PM

I have cranial cysts. No real problem just a bit annoying, so the NHS is very anti paying for me to have them removed. £500 privately in the UK, £80 in France. Given I have a half dozen to go, it makes quite a difference!

buna

10-08-2007, 3:16 PM

Yea but thinking I might have been a bit cynical to start with.
There have been posts on this thread from people who do have affiliations with dental practices which they have admitted to. And I've had 3 PM's from people giving me their phone number to give them a call - they may be genuine, might give them a call next week.

But someone else posted on this thread about people joining the forum after recieving the newsletter. I imagine there's a lot of people who are on the weekly MSE newsletter email who have never bothered to join the forums before and post, which may well explain the newbies with reccomendations to make.

Wondering Toothsmith if your a little concerend about people getting quotations from you for major dental work establishing what needs doing and then going abroad to get the work done?
A bit like travel agents being in uproar a while ago about customers walking in working out where and which resort they wanted to go on holiday and then going to the internet to get the cheapest price.
If you are I wouldn't blame you for being annoyed.

Actually thinking of doing this myself got a dental appointment this week. So going to get him to reccomend a colleague for some implants etc. Thinking I'll just establish exactly what can be / needs to bo done and then go abroad. Unless of course he really sells himself to me - because I do take some of your concerns on board.
ive just joined this site.sorry if that upsets the old heads on here,NOT,do u own this site? i think not,
i go to thailand twice a year ,had dental work done in pattaya,£8 to have a temp filling done on a thooth,dentist in england thought it was 1st rate work,

srm1102

23-08-2007, 1:58 PM

i have one word that will save you possibly thousands, don,t go to him, , i went to him also in nov 07. he promised me a place in his parish for cheap, it turned out to be a orphanage and the boiler broke down, that cost me 3000 rupees, i fired him after a month, i got one teeth cleaning, the only problem was, they were all getting extracted, so i left he called the police, i had already paid a big no no, so for a teeth cleaning he got 1500 u.s for his troubles he had a lawyer, he lied through the whole thing, the only thing that saqved me from him getting all the money was a very honest dentist that i found by another dentist a professor,please trust me email me, i don,t want one other person to get ripped off by this guy, you can email me or phone for all of the nightmare. i went to kovoordentalclinic.com tell him stephen referred you ask him what i went through he will tell you. oh did i tell you that i was there for 12 implants and in front of two priest,s he finally stated that he could only perform five. please don,t go there.

srm1102

25-08-2007, 12:05 PM

listen i,m from canada, i got hosed by him at the exact time that i went over, please, don,t go to that dr ajit thomas, all i,m going to say is i,m not b.s if you email or phone i,ll tell you where he is going to put you exactly with picture,s where you will be living is a hell hole,he will say anything to keep you there and hopefully when he has your money, your visa will run out, and he has got money for nothing.]

debtfreeatlast

16-09-2007, 11:39 PM

I have just returned from the first of my treatments in Budapest. I could not rate the service that I received higher - the dentist was wonderful and went out of her way to give me a pain free experience. It was lovely to be treated as a valued customer and they all spoke excellent English.
The quality of the technician's work is far superior to that I have had locally in the UK as well. I would not hesitate to recommend them - but everyone should do their research first in order to be sure of the treatment that they need/want.

helenjane57

21-09-2007, 6:01 AM

Hello out there. First time I've done this, so apologies if i break any codes http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/images/smilies/confused-smiley-013.gif

Myself & husband are off to Thailand for 6 months, during which time hubby wants to get his teeth fixed. My worry is getting insurance cover. All the threads I've found have not covered this. Does anyone have any advice/thoughts. In the past we've just bought bog standard travel insurance but am pretty sure this wont suit. We dont have private health insurance
would be grateful for any feedback

mark2520

21-09-2007, 6:59 AM

Dear: helenjane57

You can get a private insurance here in Thailand so you do need to buy one at home. But in my opinion, actually you do not have to get any insurance to do a dental treatment here in thailand i am so sure the dental cost still will be cheap without a insurance comparing to you home. I hope this is useful information.

srm1102

23-09-2007, 11:41 AM

why hungary, first of all the most important things you can ask, both from your home dentist an the dentist your travelling to, 1) ask both dentist,s what is the preferred implant, ie nobell(1), in your home country, ask for references, ask if you can have the implants company rep, contact you, to make sure, and ask the dentist also what type of implant, there are so many, the problem in all of these countries is counterfeit part,s, so ask the dentist what type of implants call the rep in hungary, ask him if this dentist has all the tools, especially the torque wrench, in india they did none of these thing,s i ended up with three different types of zimmer implant,s (no good) and it just cost me 1000 u.s because the dentist in india did not have or use the special torque wrench that all these implant companies have, that,s similiar to having tires put on your car then just hand tighten the lug nut,s insane. so these and more if you want. i,m not affililated with any dentist, org, travel agency, just someone that,s hope,s he can help somebody not go through what i,ve been through, be very careful,if you don,t get the right answer,s go somewhere else, next time i will go o a legit hsopital, the one in bangkok was just selected as the best tourism hospital on the planet, or the appollo hospital group in chennai india, i found checking out the prices they are not that much more expensive and you can bet they won,t try any of the above stunt,s.

srm1102

23-09-2007, 11:49 AM

are you insured through your employer, i went over i have a dental plan from work, and i contacted them and asked if i went to another country for dental work, would they cover it, not only did they say they would but at the price it would cost back home, get a detailed list what you got done, teeth # etc, film,s and bill,email me and i will tell you how to save money with the insurance company.

srm1102

23-09-2007, 11:58 AM

yes i,m fairly new, but when i sen how many people are venturing into dental tourism and i saw one of those dentist,s name, and somebody is asking about that dentist, would you rather see me say nothing, i thought that this is why it,s money saving forum, so greeneye, sorry, but tough.

danielle24

30-09-2007, 10:37 PM

Dental work too expensive? Go overseas (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/04/05/MNGHSI3N671.DTL)

With treatment so expensive, www.dentaltripsturkey.com (http://www.dentaltripsturkey.com) researched options on the Internet and discovered the dental treatment abroad/Turkey option...Dental care abroad. If you go abroad for dental care please make sure you visit webside of www.dentaltripsturkey.com (http://www.dentaltripsturkey.com/)

Why not combine your dental treatment with a 14-day holiday? If you want we will help you to organise a DENTAL HOLIDAY program for your DENTAL TREATMENT!

The Dental Trips Turkey web site is owned and managed by two professionals in tourism, with more that 14 years experience in the business. More than 50,000 people travel for treatment abroad (Source: Internatioal Passenger Survey) so we decided to use our experience to set up Dental Trips to meet your tourism needs. We deal with the Best Dental Technical Surgery in Alanya where technologies
standards comply with dental standards in Western Europe. We therefore trust that We are small enough to care about you and big enough to make you leave us smiling!

WITH KIND REGARDS

Not sure you are allowed to advertise here mate....

BarneyRubble

02-10-2007, 8:49 AM

I spotted this at the weekend:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...page_id=17 74 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.html?in_article_id=483744&in_page_id=1774)

A good reminder.

Not so much about the fact things go wrong, that happens in all countries. More about the complications of taking action when they do.

Strange how the quotes in the UK for the original work were £18-£48,000 - yet the cost of redoing and repairing came in at £8000!!! Maybe she didn't look into it that closely before signing up for her dental holiday.

triton

05-10-2007, 4:05 PM

Spam alert.
Anyway http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...page_id=17 74Same thing happens in Britain.
I've always had serious probs with my teeth mostly which i would blame on incompetent british dentists (yes there not just abroad). On a visit to Guys i met some wonderful dentists (probably cos i had 6 of their best/upcoming look at me). The scary thing was how many people where there due to incompetent british dentistry.

What was i doing at Guys, well i had 4 different private dentists look at my teeth and 4 different possible remedies (didn't boost my confidence) so i got a referral from my gp (didn't trust those dentists). The information i was given was to say the least eye opening.

ok so why do i blame the incompetent (NHS) dentists who have taken care of me from 1992 (before this i had army dentistry father in the forces). These Nhs dentists have always maintained my mouth but none of them ever ever told me about the wear i create on my teeth.

I'm a serious bruxer and if told at this time that this was the case even if mentioned i could have taken action against it. They all knew this as was pointed out to me buy one of the best dentists i ever met (Nigel) another NHS dentist. This gentleman maybe having a mad day or a non NHS day told me what we could do if i went private.

Why had none of these dentists told me this, cash wasn't the issue, i just didn't think nothing was wrong. How so wrong was I.

Unfortunately as soon as i had met Nigel and had a splint made for starters, he'd had enough of blighty and was heading abroad himself, though before he left he gave me a valuable piece of info.

So i got a new private dentist one of the four i mention above, seemed ok nice enough bloke untill he hit me with a dental plan £14k WTF.

Iv'e had a gap in myfront teeth for years (smashed a tooth out with a skateboard) and 2 extractions all on the upper so i'd asked the gentleman for a chrome cobalt not for crowns bridges etc.I was only after filling the gaps

So i went to the next private dentist (and thought hmm that 14k covers all my teeth sorted) how much would he charge me for the same it was slightly different 9k

3rd dentist 12k different again
4th dentist 7.5k again different

My faith in british dentistry plummeted yet again (don't these guys know what there doing)

see why i wanted to go to Guys. If anyone should know what to do they would.

Guys first seen by 2 students funnily enough both foreign. An African lady very nice and an Indian gentleman (more senior than the lady) his face when he looked in my gob and started telling me about raising bites crowns bridges etc. I remember his words "this is complex can you wait for my senior".

Next up was the most senior consultant in the room (took 45mins to get to me). A very cold gentleman like i was wasting his time (I understand this). He looked in my mouth asked what my bruxing was like and wandered off, Thought ok he's done. Then he returned two other consultants at hand "open wide" "how do you feel about the missing tooth at the front"
Me "not that bothered would be nice to fill but i'm not vain, so what do you think to the tooth wear"
Asked if i have a splint "yep"

All 3 consultants said to me if they where their teeth they would leave them! HUH Seriously leave them, may we introduce you to Jose.

Consultants disappeared and 40 min later Jose arrives. This gentleman was wonderful he's studying bruxism and tooth wear.Been at Guys for 11yrs and still 11yrs to go. Jose loved me, new part to his study i get special impressions made every 6 months to monitor wear of my teeth which are sent to him and analyzed on computers triggering alarm bells if needed.

So all in all I had all these british dentists look at my teeth and want to charge a fortune. Then i had some of the best (not paid by paitents) dentists in the land tell me to do F all, funny that

Why did they tell me not to do anything? I wear a splint This slows the damage the bruxism causes (i'm looking at alternatives aswell). Bridges crowns what they last 10-20yrs if lucky? so as told to me by the time theyv'e prepped them set the crowns etc remove them prep them again is there anything left to set them to again

Aswell as the consultants jose (he called the work destructive surgery) and nigel told me both to do nothing

My faith in british dentists has now been destroyed it seems to me most of them are purely out for the money

Toothsmith

05-10-2007, 4:27 PM

Has it not occured to you that there can be many options in the same mouth, and all can be correct?

I would be more surprised if you'd seen several dentists and any two had agreed!

It's called 'options'.

You saw NHS dentists who have said nothing needs doing.

You saw nigel, who explained options and made a splint.

You saw several private dentists who gave you different options at different prices.

You saw students who thought you needed mega-work.

You saw consultants who suggested you leave them alone.

Finally you saw Jose, who doesn't seem to be doing much, but is monitoring the wear.

At the end of the day, there is no right or wrong answer here.

You can let things wear down, and do something when the get so worn that they don't function (But it's possible you may die before that day ever comes)

Or

If you're bothered by how they look, you can go for the very complex option of having them reconstructed, but as you rightly point out, any work done will have a lifespan, and it may indeed speed up the destructive process.

You have the options, it's up to you to decide what to do - but there is no right or wrong answer, just a choice.

To blame your problems on a particular countries dentists is just silly.

How come there was even a difference of opinion amongst the dentists that weren't 'doing it for the money'?

Parisien

09-10-2007, 1:38 PM

Good points TS!

Steve-o

20-10-2007, 1:02 AM

Going back to a remark from a few months ago (as I'm a new user)...

Dentistry under the NHS is looked upon as a luxury in the eyes of those who control the funding-should the NHS pay for crown and bridge work at the expense of depriving some child life saving treatment. There is sadly only limited money around and people have to become used to paying for (quality)dentistry

I just had to comment on this, as it is so true: the NHS resources are extremely limited, and are not the unlimited fountain that a lot of people assume.

As a 'mature' student studying Dietetics, I went on my first medical placement a few months ago fully aware (I thought) of how limited the resources of the country were, but even I was shocked at things work in the real world of healthcare. I worked in an NHS 'rehab' hospital that catered for stroke patients, MND patients, and elderly patients, and the over-riding message that came out was that massive resources are sucked up by a relatively small number of people. For example, a stroke victim's resource 'cost' would amount to the following over a prolonged period of time (a very rough guide):

Contact with emergency services
Paramedics attend stroke victim
Nurses and doctors attend in A&E
Bed allocated in ICU.
Nurses on attendance.
Consultants in attendance
Dietitians in attendance, to provide immediate nutrional support
Ongoing costs of hospital
Catering
Cleaning
Building costs: utilites costs, maintenance costs, etc
X-rays, MRIs, etc.
Porters
Admin costs, including IT and records
Admin notification to GP
GP admin notification to GP
GP notification to GP admin
GP admin notification to hospital admin, including transfer of paper records
Stroke victim hopefully stabilised:
MDT meetings
Nurses on attendance.
Consultants in attendance
Dietitians in attendance, to provide immediate nutrional support
Ongoing costs of hospital
Catering
Cleaning
Building costs: utilites costs, maintenance costs, etc
X-rays, MRIs, etc.
Porters
Admin costs, including IT and records
Social services contacted if needed:
resources connected with social services mobilised
Transfer to rehab unit, and depending on severity of stroke:
MDT meetings
Transfer to separate rehab hospital:
Admin costs, tranfering records and information
Ambulance transfer
Nurses on attendance.
Consultants in attendance
Dietitians in attendance, to provide immediate nutrional support
Ongoing costs of hospital
Catering
Cleaning
Building costs: utilites costs, maintenance costs, etc
X-rays, MRIs, etc.
Porters
Admin costs, including IT and records
Social services:
resources connected with social services mobilised
Costs of (potential long-term) rehab of stroke victim in hospital:
MDT meetings
Nurses on attendance.
Healthcare staff in attendance (used to be known as Auxilary Nurses)
Consultants in attendance
Possible surgical costs of fitting PEG
theatre costs:
nurses
anesthetists
endoscopic maintenance and sterilisation costs
surgeon costs
porters
additional costs of nutritional supplements via PEG
Dietitians in attendance, to provide nutrional support
Speech and language therapists
Occupational Therapists
Physiotherapists
Hospital liason staff for social services
Ongoing costs of hospital
Catering
Cleaning
Building costs: utilites costs, maintenance costs, etc
X-rays, MRIs, etc.
Porters
Admin costs, including IT and records
Social services:
resources connected with social services mobilised
Discharged of stroke victim:
MDT meetings
Hospital liason staff for social services
Admin costs, including IT and records
Tranfers of details to GP
Social services costs:
Ongoing social support
Implimentation of care package (home help, carers, etc)
Stroke patient now at home, rehabilitating:
If PEG fitted, ongoing costs of:
specialist PEG nurses
specialist Dietitians
specialist nutritional supplements
Ongoing costs to social services
Ongoing costs to family, that will then have a follow on impact to society (time needed to be spent off work looking after stroke patient, etc)
Eventual recovery of stroke victim to the stage where they (hopefully) can work again.
And all this for ONE person!!!

The resources spent on MND patients and elderly patients were comparable (with additional resources where needed), although in a lot of these cases they developed into making the patient as comfortable as possible until they died. Which, if put into perspective, is 'wasted' money when people are demanding more of the NHS. But it's the kind of 'wasted' money that no-one would begrudge if they, or a loved one, were put into the same circumstances.

And then if you add the costs of 'medical tourists' coming into the UK to get FREE healthcare out of our system... :mad:

Is the NHS flawed? Yes.
Are NHS funds badly allocated? God, majorly at times.
Is the NHS an amazing organisation that people underestimate and misunderstand? Yes.
Are we lucky to have the NHS? Hell yeah!!!

I fully support people paying for treatment that they want, whether overseas or in the UK. I support it for two reasons: people are able to get the treatment that they want, and (more importantly to me) it free's up a tiny amount of NHS resources to be spread elsewhere.

The NHS resources are like a bowl of soup that feeds 26 people, when 700 people are actually feeling hungry: it's a juggling act that tries to feed the people most in need.

I'm being very unoriginal, but I have to leave the last word to Rosil: "should the NHS pay for crown and bridge work at the expense of depriving some child life saving treatment?"

Steve-o

20-10-2007, 2:07 AM

A thought that just popped into my head: would private dentists be willing to prepare a plan of work that needed doing, in cases where a patient wanted to travel abroad for dental treatment?

harryhound

20-10-2007, 8:22 AM

I thought the latest idea was that dentists should do preventive work, thus putting themselves eventually out of a job - so they are opting out of the NHS to concentrate on their richer patients, who are prepared to pay serious money for cosmetic work ?

(My experience aged 61 of the last 40 years of NHS dentistry is as follows:
- An Australian dentist 38 years ago who wanted to remove my two submerged wisdom teeth and who got quite stroppy when I told him not to bother.
- A "Chinese" dentist who gave me two high speed fillings, that I am now not convinced I needed about 30 years ago.
- 2 molar teeth where a chunk has snapped off, one the victim of a prune stone and the other one of the drilled teeth 2 years and 15 years ago).

I try to give them a good clean at least once a day and go along for a check up about once a year.

Toothsmith

20-10-2007, 10:55 AM

I thought the latest idea was that dentists should do preventive work, thus putting themselves eventually out of a job - so they are opting out of the NHS to concentrate on their richer patients, who are prepared to pay serious money for cosmetic work ?

Doing preventative work does not put me out of a job.

Preventative dentistry is an ongoing process. You don't just 'do' some 'thing' that is preventative dentistry, and then never have to see that patient ever again.

Preventative dentistry requires that you see patients frequently, you catch anything that's going wrong very early, and you fix it in a way that damages the tooth as minimally as possible.

You can stop cavities from developing, you can prevent gum disease. And if you need to wave a drill about, you take away as little healthy tooth as possible.

A true preventative practice is the exact opposite of a cosmetic practice, where appearence is everything, and perfectly healthy tooth is sacrificed for a straighter, whiter wall of porcelain.

A wonky, yellowey healthy tooth has the potential to last a lifetime. A bit of porcelain needs regular replacement, and will sacrifice more tooth each time.

I run a preventative practice - a proper one, not some fantasy version that health ministers talk about when discussing NHS dentistry.

I see ordinary people, not rich ones, but ones who value my approach, and know the difference between good preventative dentistry, and rubbish.

I talk more people out of cosmetic dentistry than I actually do (Apart from whitening, which is an excellent non-invasive way to make teeth look better).

Toothsmith

20-10-2007, 11:03 AM

A thought that just popped into my head: would private dentists be willing to prepare a plan of work that needed doing, in cases where a patient wanted to travel abroad for dental treatment?

That wouldn't really work Steve-o.

By doing that, the UK dentist would become 'complicit' in the process, and so action could be taken against him in the event of anything going wrong abroad. Taking action against the UK dentist would be a whole lot easier than tackling the Hungarian (for example) legal system, so dentists complicit in any treatment undertaken abroad, would find themselves a lot more likely to be sued than the dentist that actually did the treatment.

A UK dentist even recementing a temporary crown that is part of some huge treatment abroad would be opening him/herself up to such action.

This is why it is fairly likely that any dentist who reads the magazines sent out by the defense organisations will be unlikely to touch such a patient with a bargepole.

seven-day-weekend

20-10-2007, 11:46 AM

We have done the exact opposite to most people here.

We live in Spain and visit our UK dentist (private) when we visit the UK.

This is for several reasons, the main one being he knows us , having treated us for the last twenty years. Although I'm sure Spanish dentists are fine (and definitely cheaper), it is much easier if you don't have to struggle with a foreign language when discussing what needs doing. All dentists in Spain are private, btw.

Another (minor) reason is this is one of the links we are maintaining with the UK (including still having a house and bank accounts there) so that it will not be too difficult to be classed as resident straight away when we eventually return.

I always ask what the charge is going to be when making the appointment.

If there were any emergencies I would obviously go to a Spanish dentist.

I would like to say however, something about the Spanish NHS. MY husband has recently spent twelve days in a hospital in Granada, having had an operation. His care was first class and imho, much more thorough than in British hospitals, he had a single room with his own shower (the biggest room we saw contained four beds) and the hospital was spotless.

First Class service!

Steve-o

20-10-2007, 6:48 PM

That wouldn't really work Steve-o.

By doing that, the UK dentist would become 'complicit' in the process, and so action could be taken against him in the event of anything going wrong abroad. Taking action against the UK dentist would be a whole lot easier than tackling the Hungarian (for example) legal system, so dentists complicit in any treatment undertaken abroad, would find themselves a lot more likely to be sued than the dentist that actually did the treatment.

Makes a lot of sense. Somehow I don't think the culture of free "Where there's blame there's a claim" legal services has yet reached the countries that offer less expensive medical treatments. I see their fees going up when it eventually does. :rotfl:

yellow33

04-11-2007, 1:38 PM

When I was 28, I had my first toothache, and went to the Charles Clifford Dental Hospital for treatment. It was fond that a very large filling in one of my back teeth had some sort of leak, and this was causing the problem. The old amalgam filling was removed and replaced with a gold inlay by a final year student. At the same time, she replaced all the fillings in my molars (I had measles as a child and apparently this can cause your teeth to have weak enamel, although I'll be happy to be corrected on this - certainly we had very few sweets when we were children in the 50's) with gold.

She was grateful to have a patient that could come every week for a two hour appointment and I was delighted to have the work done for nothing.

After this treatment, five of my front teeth were crowned (by her supervisor) as they had been stained by tetracyclin apparently. These crowns lsted for quite some time, although I cracked a couple at different times and had to have replacements. Eventually though, my crowns started to look a bit of a mish mosh and I decided to have the whole lot done again. I was in South Africa a couple of years ago and somebody told me about an excellent dentist whom I visited. He told me he could do the whole lot, and recommended crowning one extra tooth, in 6 days and for £2,300.

The work was not straightforward (and I knew it wouldn't be), since I had a couple of post crowns, having had root canal treatment, and had one tooth missing. This was due to a UK dentist (a Dr of dentistry, if you please) breaking my tooth while removing a temp crown while replacing a porcelain jacket crown; instead of removing the nerve and treating me properly, he hastily made the jacket crown into a post crown, removed my tooth at the level of my gum,drilled a hole - at the wrong angle - into my remaining root, causing the root to completely fracture some three years later.

I sued him, and was awarded £9,500 (such was the monstrous mess it left me with, and the need for an implant) but he promptly arranged (for the second time) for the Inland Revenue to make him bankrupt, since he owned them £40,000. I didn't get a penny and so couldn't afford the implant in the end. That was a bad experience - he was utterly unscrupulous and, if I hadn't had as much as I could take in having to go to court, I should have reported him to the GDC.

So, to summarise, I have good and bad experiences, which reflects life!

The gold inlays put in by the student in Sheffield have lasted 25 years and every dentist I have seen has commented on the superb quality of the work. I hope Diana is still practising - she used to worry that she was too slow, but she was brilliant. The crowns I had done in South Africa are great, and I haven't had any problems in the two and a half years since I had them done. I was immensely impressed with the facilities over there, and the speed in which they were done. However, I'm a jolly patient patient, and was able to spend three hours in the chair on one day, having the preparation done. I would imagine a lot of people would have needed two or three appointments for this.

The fact is, however, if I could have afforded the treatment in the UK, I would have had it done here. I think in general, our dentists are excellent - world class - and I don't resent whatever they earn.

Why shouldn't they have villas in Tuscany if they can pay for them. They have the same rights you (redfox) do - and that includes your right to have treatment abroad if you'd rather do so.

Personally, I'm more concerned about the state system that has such a ridiculous system that dentists are all forced to concentrate almost entirely on private patients to earn a half decent living. £60,000 - I earn more than that!!! All I did was a two year business studies diploma and worked hard for 15 years. (And I can't afford a villa - it's hard enough buying a two bed flat in London)

yellow33

04-11-2007, 1:54 PM

What's wrong with you people? I'm not a dentist and don't know any personally, but they spend 7 years studying and deserve to earn whatever they can - as does anyone else in this country!!

Parisien

04-11-2007, 2:08 PM

What's wrong with you people?

Yell...I think you'll find its the fact that you walk in for a simple procedure of any kind, whether dental, or new specs etc......and the mark up or value to you as a buyer seems excessive......for whatever reason.....it may not be the individual clinicians fault but the system that they operate or, the high cost base, the taxation system and regulations.

Secondly, have always voted with their wallets......1960 ....96 percent of cars bought in UK were built here......now...its 5%......people effectively exported jobs and killed off the UK manufacturing base...all by themselvees, actually worked hand in glove with inept manufacturers and the outcome was as expected.

Dentists nor opticians are not immune to this effect, supply and demand and cost to benefit ratios are all taken into account.

Thirdly buyers of these products......are very reluctant to pay these high prices.....partly because we aren't all totally caught up in the veneer deep value system imported from the USA.....were fakeness, unrealness and shallowness are epidemic!

Finally we do live currently in a high tax and indirect taxation system....extremely biased towards the top 5% earners...the rest of us get shafted......and we vote with our teeth, eyes and other body parts!!!!

yellow33

04-11-2007, 2:20 PM

[quote=theredfox;5344535]I'm not interested in the "rubbish" that YOU just posted. What does administrative points for this, points for that, have to do with the fundamental economics of this? - absolutely nothing. How much does an NHS dentist earn? And are you going to tell me it's a sob story, because it's only £50,000? Try and tell me they object to points for this points for that admin, rather than the fact that they can make £80,000, £100,00 whatever by going private?

I
The 'rubbish' posted by toothsmith made perfect sense to me; it's very straightforward!

But I wonder why you are so concerned about what dentists earn; do you think that just because you don't want a big bill, they should be content to earn £25,000 or something. They are entitled to earn as much as they can - as you are - and heaven knows they work for it (and, according to actuarial tables, die earlier than any other occupation and have a higher incidence of acute back problems and suicide!)

Look at what relatively uneducated traders in the City earn - for playing around with other people's money, not for doing something that helps people. Do you object to what footballers earn? Their earnings mean that families can no longer go and watch what is our national sport, live, because it costs too much, and to watch the 'big' matches on TV, they have to pay for Sky!

You live in your own sweet world and aren't interested in other people's opinions - do get a grip!

yellow33

04-11-2007, 2:43 PM

...... to which they rejected it in large volumes and stuck to fingers up to the goverment and said sod this were going private only and getting rid of our NHS patients?[/quote]

Puppy, slightly off subject, but would you like English lessons - I only charge £50 an hour? You and your friend Fox probably find this objectionable, but most people are really happy to pay, because I know my subject and can help them a great deal to write and speak good, grammatical English.

Just a thought.....

yellow33

04-11-2007, 3:26 PM

I absolutely agree about the taxation system Parisien - seems bonkers to me that someone earning slightly less than £40,000 (I think) pays the same as those earning millions. I simply can't resent people who earn more than I do if they're supplying a decent service.

Dewpoint

08-11-2007, 4:50 PM

:D Dental Tourism
Last year I went to Hungary as I was outraged by the cost of a dental implant here in the UK , with relativly little effort if found several english speaking dentists in Budapest so avoided any middle men. The savings were huge the quality of service second to none and equiptment and level of service far in excess of any private dentist here in the uk I've ever seen. As the treatment wasnt urgent I picked my time and took in a Robbie Williams concert at the same time and had a great time exploring a wonderful city for a week and still came back quids in , 30 euro tooth whitning too oh if your quick £10.00 taxes paid flights from bristol new route ryan air

I'm planning a trip to Hungary soon - can you recommend the dentist you used?

regards

Nenen

20-11-2007, 4:01 PM

I have terrible teeth (all molars and pre-molars are either filled or missing)! :eek: I'm just about managing to get by with the gaps without needing a plate as my front teeth are reasonable (although not for much longer apparently). Just to add to my problems I'm terrified of the dentist... probably stems from having 4 teeth extracted in one go as a child due to 'overcrowding' (my teeth are very wide). Toothache finally drove me to the dentist a few weeks ago (having put off going for the last 3 years since my previous dentist left the country). My first call was to a private dentist (NHS had a three week waiting list) and he was the nicest, kindest and most patient man I've ever met. A really lovely Indian gentleman (and I use that term in its most sincere form) who took a great deal of time and trouble to explain I needed one tooth out, some root canal fillings, several other fillings, scaling, polishing etc. I was expecting it to be quite dear but it wasn't till I got back downstairs to the reception I got told exactly how much..... £2,500 + £1,500 for a bridge = £4,000 :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: He said if I wanted implants I'd have to be referred to another specialist he works with who charges about £3,000 each :eek: :eek: :eek:
I was devastated as cannot possibly afford that. I then waited (in considerable pain) for an NHS appointment... that dentist was very 'matter of fact' pleasant but not reassuring in any way and basically said I should have not just one but two teeth out immediately plus some fillings and expect to lose all my teeth in the not too distant future. The cost of what he wants to do is about £400 and that doesn't include any root treatments (not covered by NHS apparently) or bridges/plates. I asked about titanium plates (only available privately) and he said they wouldn't be suitable for my teeth as it would damage the remianing teeth very quickly.

I cannot bear the thought of losing any more teeth or having a false set of teeth with the plasticy plate (tried it once before and can't bear it in my mouth due to trauma as a child) ... but know in my heart that one tooth at least does have to go (its still painful after two courses of antibiotics to treat an abcess under it) . I'd LOVE to be able to afford to go to the first dentist as I had such a positive experience with him but that really isn't an option due to finances.

I just spotted this thread and wondered if there might be a third option, ie go to Hungary etc.... would probably cost about the same as the NHS dentist but losing less teeth and possibly having implants or decent bridges *sigh* . I'm just very worried about doing this for reasons outlined so carefully by Toothsmith.

I really don't mean any disrespect to first time posters (we all had to start with our first post) but, in my situation, I hope you can understand my fear of basing such an important decision on something written by someone who posts once and is never seen again! I'd love to hear from some long-term MSEers (who have a wide post history) and have experience of getting dental treatment abroad. I'd also be grateful for any thoughts from Toothsmith or other knowledgable posters. :beer:

Toothsmith

20-11-2007, 7:40 PM

Did you discuss payment options with the first dentist?

Over what sort of time span would the treatment be done? Does he have any payment options? (There are interest free loans available for dental treatment - Denplan operate one scheme called 'Enhance' - there are several others)

What you need first of all are things stabilized. The extractions, the root fillings and the fillings along with the gum treatments.

From how you describe it, I think the first chap sounds like a very thorough, good dentist.

I wouldn't worry about bridges or implants until things are stable, you've conquered your fear of the dentist, and you are able to look after your teeth and gums well and attend regularly for check ups. (Maybe there was a denture option to fill the gaps for a while?)

If the list of things wrong is so long then his fees don't sound that bad to me.

As for the NHS chap..... £400 is not an NHS fee.

The maximum you pay for a course of NHS treatment now is £192. So he's just charging you bargin bucket private prices, and possibly fraudualantly claiming NHS funds as well.

Root fillings are available on the NHS - he's just not prepared to do them as they're not quick, and he can't earn his funding points quickly enough.

Again, he expects you to loose all your teeth, as he's not got the time under the NHS system to work with you and do what you need to save them.

I would ring up your local PCT and have a word with them about what he has told you 'is and 'isn't' available on the NHS, as it looks like a breach of contract to me.

As for going abroad, yes, you could probably find somewhere that will get you in, turn you all hollywood, and ship you home again in a fortnight for the price of a pound of potatoes.

That would do you no good at all though.

Unless you work with someone over time, and understand why your mouth has got into the state it has, and you put in some work to make sure you can look after it yourself, then even if, by some miracle, you get A1 perfect work entirely appropriate for your needs (Which is highly unlikely) it will begin to fall to bits in a matter of a few short years.

When it does, you will be much worse off, as there will be a lot less of your own tooth, and (if you go for implants) a lot less of your own bone when it fails.

You might even find wearing a denture tricky if you loose too much bone.

Get things stabilised (Even on the NHS if you can find someone who provides good dentistry on the NHS, and not just working the system), save up, and get back to see that first chap as soon as you can.

oni

26-12-2007, 9:31 AM

can anyone recommend a dentist in the Algarve?

pboyle

14-01-2008, 4:29 PM

There was a good article about all this in the papers yesterday. Here's the link:

I flew to Hungary to have my teeth fixed. (http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/consumer/savingideas/article.html?in_article_id=429332&in_page_id=512)

I think like everything in life, when it comes to dental tourism you have to do your homework and trust in your own decisions. For some people it doesn't make any sense to go abroad, for others it may well save them a fortune.

Philip

lvmarcia

23-01-2008, 10:46 AM

Can you recommend the dentist in Hungary you saw???

poppy10

04-04-2008, 10:44 PM

Is there anything non-dentistry related in this thread?

HOLLY

22-05-2008, 4:17 PM

poppy10

22-05-2008, 7:24 PM

My dental nightmare in Budapest was to lose all my top teeth. Caused through a one piece bridge of 14 teeth attached at one end to a fixed implant. To be brief the bridge snapped off taking with it several teeth still stuck in the cement.

Oh god! :eek:

That sounds so terrible :( Hope you get some compensation Holly, although I know it won't make up for what you've gone through.

donteatthat

22-05-2008, 7:47 PM

Holly I hope that you get something sorted out.
I know of others who have had dental disasters abroad. As soon as some of them threatened legal action they recovered the money they had paid. This is not always a good thing as it does not cover the costs of remedial work.
Please see a good medical negligence solicitor for advice.
Perhaps the Dental law Partnership.

BedfordBoy

29-05-2008, 12:15 AM

Hi
Interested in yr comments on Hungary. I went there a yr back and had 3 assessments in one day, for implants. It's gone on the back burner but thinking of moving on it now.
You posted a year back - any negative consequences? And where did you go exactly in Budapest?
As for Robbie Williams - no thanks!
Best regards
Nigel

HOLLY

29-05-2008, 12:17 AM

Thank you for your concern . I will keep try to keep positive.

violeta

12-06-2008, 6:29 PM

Thanks Holly, for sharing your personal experience. I have been looking into getting some dental work done abroad for a while now and I haven't the courage to take the plunge yet! I must admit, Vital Europe was on my short list of possible companies. Hope you make a good recovery.

Toothsmith

12-06-2008, 8:00 PM

I have been looking into getting some dental work done abroad for a while now and I haven't the courage to take the plunge yet!

That's a healthy fear. Listen to it! ;)

keefyp

18-06-2008, 10:45 PM

kev1664

21-06-2008, 9:03 PM

Can anybody recommend a spanish dentist , Murcia area for implant work??

curlypops

06-07-2008, 9:08 PM

I have been emailing a dentist in Istanbul and have received a good quote for a 4 unit bridge a porcelain crown and 3 veneers.

The price I was quoted in UK was £4700 and the price in Istanbul is 2500 euros a HUGE saving, the price also includes accommodation and lifetime guarantee.

Now I just want to hear if anyone has any experience of this practice.

The dentist is Tufan Tezcan ...

Toothsmith

06-07-2008, 10:14 PM

the price also includes accommodation and lifetime guarantee.

His lifetime, or yours? :confused:

And, of course, it will only be valid if you attend his practice regularly to allow him to check it.

*jobags*

08-07-2008, 12:48 AM

Is there anything non-dentistry related in this thread?

I had IVF in Poland having blown over £30K in the UK over a 3 year period - In the UK I rarely saw the same Doctor twice and treatment protocols often changed in the middle of treatment cycles for no good reason.

I went to the clinic in Warsaw in May 2006 and within 8 weeks was pregnant with twins at a cost of £2,300. I visited the clinic 4 times and saw the same Dr on each visit.

The clinic was clean - cleaner than those in the UK which I had visited as a private and NHS patient, the drugs were the same as those in the UK but much cheaper and the Doctor spoke perfect English - in fact much better English than the majority of Doctors I saw in UK IVF Clinics

The HFEA were (and still are) full of scare stories about going abroad - as are many professionals and professional health organisations in this country - what are they scared of? That we'll find better standards, better success rates and cleaner facilities abroad.

I would recommend investigating any treatment options abroad to anyone

Jo

curlypops

08-07-2008, 8:08 AM

thank you for your non biased reply Toothsmith.

Does anyone have any experience of this dentist or heard anything good or bad about him?

Thanks

curlypops

08-07-2008, 8:11 AM

Toothsmith,

as you say you live in "God's own country" does that mean you ae in Wales?

Toothsmith

08-07-2008, 8:28 AM

Toothsmith,

as you say you live in "God's own country" does that mean you ae in Wales?

I suspected you weren't good with small print! :D

God's own county not country!

Toothsmith

08-07-2008, 8:33 AM

thank you for your non biased reply Toothsmith.

Why do you think my reply is biased?

I was not the british dentist who gave you the quote, and so it's of no interest to me where you go. Dentists are all individual businesses. If you see yourself spending significant time in Istanbul over the next 10-15 years, then having a dentist in Istanbul is just as good as having one in the UK. You can attend regularly and keep up the maintenance.

Any dentist, UK or abroad, who gives a 'lifetime guarentee' though is either a fool, or will have so many terms and conditions attached to it as to make it worthless.

It's simply a marketing tool to attract patients who know no better.

Optimist

08-07-2008, 3:18 PM

Toothsmith,

as you say you live in "God's own country" does that mean you ae in Wales?

Its quite obviously Yorkshire! :D

Toothsmith

08-07-2008, 4:55 PM

Its quite obviously Yorkshire! :D

A coconut for that man!!

mandy_44

14-07-2008, 8:12 PM

I had IVF in Poland having blown over £30K in the UK over a 3 year period - In the UK I rarely saw the same Doctor twice and treatment protocols often changed in the middle of treatment cycles for no good reason.

I went to the clinic in Warsaw in May 2006 and within 8 weeks was pregnant with twins at a cost of £2,300. I visited the clinic 4 times and saw the same Dr on each visit.

The clinic was clean - cleaner than those in the UK which I had visited as a private and NHS patient, the drugs were the same as those in the UK but much cheaper and the Doctor spoke perfect English - in fact much better English than the majority of Doctors I saw in UK IVF Clinics

The HFEA were (and still are) full of scare stories about going abroad - as are many professionals and professional health organisations in this country - what are they scared of? That we'll find better standards, better success rates and cleaner facilities abroad.

I would recommend investigating any treatment options abroad to anyone

Jo
Congratulations on your twin pregnancy! I'm glad that all turned out well for you. what was the deciding factor in particular that made you opt for Poland?

mandy_44

14-07-2008, 10:58 PM

Treatment Abroad (www.treatmentabroad.com (http://www.treatmentabroad.com)) has introduced a Ratings and Reviews system whereby patients can publish their ratings and comments about their experiences of travelling for treatment.

Patients want to know about other patients’ experiences. Treatment Abroad Ratings and Reviews provides you with the “word of mouth” that can help you to make the right choice, if you are thinking of travelling for treatment.

You see the Ratings and Reviews at:
http://reviews.treatmentabroad.com (http://reviews.treatmentabroad.com/)

To submit a review:
Go to: www.treatmentabroad.com/medical-tourism/directory/ and (http://www.treatmentabroad.com/medical-tourism/directory/ and) search for the company, hospital or clinic in the listings. Then select "Write a review" on the company/hospital/clinic's page on the site.

All reviews are moderated and checked by at least two members of the Reviews team.

I for one would not go by any review written on a website. If I made the decision to go abroad for dental treatment I would at least expect them to put me in touch with a living breathing person who had successful treatment by them. Anyone can go on a website and write an amazing review especially if they have a vested interest. So read the reviews with caution I have asked companies to put me in touch with previous clients and it's amazing how silent there emails become.

mandy_44

14-07-2008, 11:02 PM

mandy_44

14-07-2008, 11:12 PM

:rolleyes: What's wrong with you people? I'm not a dentist and don't know any personally, but they spend 7 years studying and deserve to earn whatever they can - as does anyone else in this country!!
Yes they have a right to earn like the rest of us. But they have no right ripping people off like they do. Some of them are no better than the rip off cowboy plumbers and roofers you see being exposed on t.v. In fact there should be a documentry on exposing the way some (not all) dentists rip people off.
And for an example I was charged £496 for a consultation ( which was 40 mins approx) with an implant dentist in the south of england this included a bone scan which i never did see and all i got for my money was a written treatment plan which could have been typed by a five year old. Also, I was quoted £18.000 for treatment. When i phoned to ask if i could have a copy of the bone scan (as i wanted to save myself more money) i could then show it to other dentists. I was told that his scanning machine would not be :confused: compatible with other machines. Don't know if to laugh or cry:rolleyes:

mandy_44

14-07-2008, 11:21 PM

My dental nightmare in Budapest was to lose all my top teeth. Caused through a one piece bridge of 14 teeth attached at one end to a fixed implant. To be brief the bridge snapped off taking with it several teeth still stuck in the cement. The rest damaged beyond repair. My British dentist said it was fitted in correctly with gaps between gum and tooth . The main reason was the fitting of the bridge to a rigid implant. Hence had all my top teeth removed now have a denture .The Dental agent Vital Europe now also called i believe Vitalpoint chose a Dentist called Profident for my treatment. I have had no apology or compensation from Vital Europe or Profident under their guarantee, because i would not go back to Profident under any circumstances. I have been so depressed and traumatised that as yet i have not tried to claim against them, but i will however long it takes. They also have a surgery here now so maybe it will be easier.
I would be greatful to anyone who has any advice on compensation. My apoogies if this message has been read before but i could not find it on this thread.
I'm really sorry to hear about your bad experience and I hope that you find a resolution to it. I can not offer you any advice only support I'm thinking of you.

Toothsmith

15-07-2008, 7:15 AM

And for an example I was charged £496 for a consultation ( which was 40 mins approx) with an implant dentist in the south of england this included a bone scan which i never did see and all i got for my money was a written treatment plan which could have been typed by a five year old. Also, I was quoted £18.000 for treatment. When i phoned to ask if i could have a copy of the bone scan (as i wanted to save myself more money) i could then show it to other dentists. I was told that his scanning machine would not be :confused: compatible with other machines. Don't know if to laugh or cry:rolleyes:

This sounds seriously dodgy!

What was the 'Scanning machine' like?

Usually, implant dentists use the scanner at local hospitals. These are the huge machines that you lie down in and go into a tunnel.

They are expensive to do, but I on't understand the 'not compatible' stuff.

If you're considering implants, it's always best to get your general dentist to refer you to an implantologist he knows and trusts. After all, it will be your general dentist who will be taking care of things on a day-to-day basis once the engineering has been completed.

I would go back to that dentist and ask again for your scan. If they won't give it to you, ask for their complaints policy.

*jobags*

17-07-2008, 12:45 AM

Congratulations on your twin pregnancy! I'm glad that all turned out well for you. what was the deciding factor in particular that made you opt for Poland?

A few things...

I live in Herts and Warsaw is easy peasy to get to from Luton - WizzAir and SleazyJet

In terms of IVF - the clinic automatically puts the woman on steroids for the first 12 weeks (post embryo transfer and then for a further 10 weeks following a positive result) and as I have a lupus type condition I felt I needed steroids to support embryo implantation - you will only be prescribed steroinds in the UK if you have undergone immune tests ranging from £600 - £1500

Professionalism of clinic staff - they will call you at 10.00 on a Sunday night if they need to (and did in my case)

Plus the IVF was half the price of IVF in the UK so I could have more attempts for my money - I also used a cashback credit card to pay for it;)

If you want more info on IVF abroad options I suggest you google fertility friends abroadies

Jo

keefyp

30-07-2008, 4:54 PM

I for one would not go by any review written on a website. If I made the decision to go abroad for dental treatment I would at least expect them to put me in touch with a living breathing person who had successful treatment by them. Anyone can go on a website and write an amazing review especially if they have a vested interest. So read the reviews with caution I have asked companies to put me in touch with previous clients and it's amazing how silent there emails become.

I agree with you on this Mandy. The medical tourism ratings and reviews site at http://reviews.treatmentabroad.com is moderated by two external professional moderators - dubious reviews are rejected, and IP addresses and email addresses of reviewers are checked for "vested interests". However, the best recommendation is from someone who has been to the hospital/clinic/doctor for the same treatment that you are considering. Any reputable medical tourism provider will be happy to put you in touch with someone.

metuka

03-09-2008, 5:08 PM

I just went to a new nhs dentist who told me that my teeth were in very bad condition and I would need at least 8 extractions plus some root canal and other work - he suggested doing the tesco dental insurance and then coming back in 3 months, is this a better idea than going abroad eg hungary to get it done (as is highlighted in a few of these threads)? any ideas?

Toothsmith

03-09-2008, 8:58 PM

Why did he suggest the Tesco policy?

If he was an NHS dentist, extractions (any number) and root fillings (again - any number) would all be covered by one single payment of £46.20.

3 months on the Tesco policy would cost you over £50.

If he was telling you that he would only do it privately, then he either wasn't NHS, or he was breaking the rules of his NHS contract.

If crowns were necessary, then the NHS cost would be £198. But that's it - £198 would cover everything you need.

I doubt you could get it done in Hungary for less.

That is - of course - it was an NHS dentist playing by the rules of his NHS contract.

Toothsmith

03-09-2008, 9:01 PM

I agree with you on this Mandy. The medical tourism ratings and reviews site at ***************** is moderated by two external professional moderators - dubious reviews are rejected, and IP addresses and email addresses of reviewers are checked for "vested interests".

Unlike this site - eh?

Trialia

18-01-2009, 6:11 AM

Any recommendations for dental treatment for a fibromyalgia patient? Local anaesthetic simply doesn't work on me. I need a double root canal and a fix of a broken back tooth, and have severe enamel damage caused by bulimia, according to two dentists here who saw me but would not treat me because they're not familiar with my list of existing health problems and medication. I can't find a dentist here who will treat me, so it's likely I'll have to go elsewhere, and save up to do it. If I can find somewhere in Europe where I can get the necessary work done cheaply, I can save up for that...

harryhound

18-01-2009, 1:10 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibromyalgia

Nomad25

18-01-2009, 1:17 PM

but would not treat me

I don't know what the protocol here is [Toothsmith??], but could you get a referral to a dental hospital?

Trialia

19-01-2009, 4:14 PM

I don't know what the protocol here is [Toothsmith??], but could you get a referral to a dental hospital?

I've asked for it, but my GP seems completely boggled as to why I would need it, despite the PCT being unable to find any NHS dentist outside of hospital who will help me and my needing a double root canal and more treatment than even that... Idk. I really don't.

KrisD

12-02-2009, 7:16 PM

Hello everyone!

I had a complete nightmare with the dentist last year continuing still to this year. I managed to get a refund. The problem has not been completely resolved and I am about to go to Australia for a year and I have my niggling dental issues hanging over my head. I am all for dental tourism and cannot wait to get a few pounds/dollars scraped together and hopefully go perhaps to India on my return journey. I like the idea of places that have a UK clinic for aftercare/check-ups etc. My worry is though, that I may require work done within the year. It may be possible that I could afford travel and treatment before the end of the year but I would say most unlikely. It's therefore possible that I may need work in Oz. My travel insurance only covers £200 towards emergency treatment to stop pain with an excess of £75 so it's not much use should the work involved be expensive.

Does anyone know if it is possible to purchase a reasonable 12 month worldwide or region specific dental insurance for the traveler? I'm not sure but I'm guessing dental care is quite expensive in Australia. Perhaps I can get dental insurance in Oz for the 12 months just like anyone else? Any advice would be fantastic. I don't want dental care to be a shadow over my year of travel.

Cheers!

Kris

lorrigirl29

15-02-2009, 11:05 PM

hi to all i have full dentures on top and have all my own bottom teeth but they not good and i was wanting dentures top and bottom with implants to hold them in

has any body been to budapest or hungry for this type of precidier

what was the care like
what was the rough price
and any more info you could pass my way would help thanks

i know my spelling not good lol

pihecoco

01-03-2009, 10:46 AM

Hi just I have just returned from Sofia Bulgaria and visited a dentist over there having been let down so many times by uk and french dentists,I visited a modern dentist with all the equipment!had 2 crowns and a root canal for just under £400 (had to pay an extra £50 because it was the weekend-very pleased great work and very proffesional.I was recomended by a person living there ,the dentist spoke english and had people come mainly from spain but also scotland!
Highly recomend it but maybe a recomendation is better rather than going adhoc!

UniversityStudent

13-03-2009, 2:40 AM

Hi there,
I am currently a 3rd year undergraduate student studying at the University of Derby, Buxton. I am beginning my dissertation looking into the reasons why medical tourists travel away from the UK to consume medical treatments. I therefore need to gain views and opinions from the public that have visited countries abroad to consume these treatments. I wondered if it would be possible to send a completely confidential questionnaire that you could fill out, to allow me to research this topic in more detail for my final dissertation and to be able to get genuine answers for this research topic. From reading forums I have found a number of people that have been abroad for treatments. I completely understand if you do not want to take part in this questionnaire, but please feel free to contact me should you have any further questions.
Thanks, Elizabeth Myatt

macni88

20-03-2009, 6:20 PM

Hi!

I my dissertation’s topic is dental tourism in Hungary. If you took part on any dental treatment in Hungary, pleaser answer my short questionnaire
Thank you in advance!
The link of the questionnaire:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?s...KpeWinqA_3d_3d (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=B_2fdDKf2AWO3Z5nKpeWinqA_3d_3d)

jasperpop

24-03-2009, 3:17 PM

im in need of remedial work and then want cosmetic dentistry..i have had rubbish treatment over the years and i honestly dont think ive had a dentist that i would call even 'good'.
a friend had a lot of work done including cosmetic and she paid £14.000 in london (surinder hundle clinic) opp harrods but its the other side of london (from essex) and the travelling adds to the cost..anyone found a competent cosmetic dentist either central/east london? thanks

CodaQueen

16-04-2009, 8:40 PM

I was with a great dentist for years down in Clapham Junction but, when the dentist who'd dealt with me since I was a child, left I decided to stop the treks down to london and register with an NHS dentist near me. However I always have this niggling feeling that he's not giving me good service and that he's always on the look-out for a way to charge me for extra work (for example, the first thing he did when i signed up was give me a filling that I'm not convinced I needed but, as he's the dentist, i felt I had to trust what he said). Because of this I'm toying with the idea of seeing what dental work is like in the US as I'm going there in the summer and I go there at least once a year so it could be a worthwhile thing. Has anyone tried dental care in the US?

Toothsmith

16-04-2009, 10:11 PM

If you think we over treat here.............................................. .. :D

seven-day-weekend

16-04-2009, 10:45 PM

I come FROM Spain to visit the dentist in the UK.

I did go to a Spanish one, but she was no cheaper and I'd rather stick with my UK dentist who I've had for over thirty years and who speaks English.

My husband and I both visit him on our yearly visit to the UK.

harryhound

17-06-2009, 8:27 AM

For a discussion on the "morality"of globally outsourcing "healthcare", try episode two in this thread:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=22528545

mandy_44

05-09-2009, 5:22 PM

HI,

I have just had a very bad experience from a Hungarian company. I am still in shock to find that after a year ago of having 7 implants placed and continuous pain, I now have to under go extensive remedial work. Three of my teeth need to be removed I have a cyst infection and decay. I had spent £9,000 for my treatment. I kept writing to the agent that I was in pain I went to see them twice in London. Nothing was done. I then paid to have a scan done elsewhere. Then when I got back to them they sent me an email telling me that, I had NEVER complained of pain!! They tried to say that it was a new problem!! My god, what liars. I have so much proof to the contrary that I can't see how they hope to get away with this. Other customers I have met have not been happy.

Which brings me to this: Be very wary of websites, forums when they are praising dental companies abroad. How genuine are they? Yesterday I tried to post on a forum that helps people to decide where to go for treatment. My post was turned down. I wondered why. it was obvious there were only good things on there so people will carry on using these dentists because they have not been told the truth they only read the good comments the bad are held back. This is so wrong, where can anyone get a proper review good and bad. (they must be paid for advertising) I used BHMS and I will make sure that everyone knows what liars they are and how they try to take more money off you for their mistake. I am hoping that my story will be told in the press. I have nothing to hide. I am a victim of their greed. :eek: Just call me mugface !!

mandy_44

13-09-2009, 12:59 PM

Treatment Abroad (www.treatmentabroad.com (http://www.treatmentabroad.com)) has introduced a Ratings and Reviews system whereby patients can publish their ratings and comments about their experiences of travelling for treatment.

Patients want to know about other patients’ experiences. Treatment Abroad Ratings and Reviews provides you with the “word of mouth” that can help you to make the right choice, if you are thinking of travelling for treatment.

You see the Ratings and Reviews at:
http://reviews.treatmentabroad.com (http://reviews.treatmentabroad.com/)

To submit a review:
Go to: www.treatmentabroad.com/medical-tourism/directory/ and (http://www.treatmentabroad.com/medical-tourism/directory/ and) search for the company, hospital or clinic in the listings. Then select "Write a review" on the company/hospital/clinic's page on the site.

All reviews are moderated and checked by at least two members of the Reviews team.
__________________________________________________ ________

I really would not go by the ratings on the above website. I have noticed that they only have good reviews they will not let you write a bad one. I have tried, they will not accept it. The reason they don't is because they get paid for advertising by these hospitals and clinics therefore you are not getting a true review.And, the ones that are "good" are they genuine reviews ? The website is misleading and we are lulled into a false belief that the places on there are really good. :rolleyes:

mandy_44

13-09-2009, 1:05 PM

My dental nightmare in Budapest was to lose all my top teeth. Caused through a one piece bridge of 14 teeth attached at one end to a fixed implant. To be brief the bridge snapped off taking with it several teeth still stuck in the cement. The rest damaged beyond repair. My British dentist said it was fitted in correctly with gaps between gum and tooth . The main reason was the fitting of the bridge to a rigid implant. Hence had all my top teeth removed now have a denture .The Dental agent Vital Europe now also called i believe Vitalpoint chose a Dentist called Profident for my treatment. I have had no apology or compensation from Vital Europe or Profident under their guarantee, because i would not go back to Profident under any circumstances. I have been so depressed and traumatised that as yet i have not tried to claim against them, but i will however long it takes. They also have a surgery here now so maybe it will be easier.
I would be greatful to anyone who has any advice on compensation. My apoogies if this message has been read before but i could not find it on this thread.
__________________________________________________ ____

I am going through a similar scenario with BHMS, once they have your money they don't care about the aftercare. People be warned, if you go to Hungary and the aftercare is in the UK, you still can not lodge a complaint in the UK you have to lodge it in Hungary. Even if the complaint is about your aftercare.:eek: You can only complain about the Hungarian company in this country if they did the treatment over here. Which I think is really lame. After all aftercare sometimes does consist of treatment in the UK. You have to really decide to take a risk it is down to you, you will be on your own:money:

mandy_44

13-09-2009, 1:13 PM

I agree with you on this Mandy. The medical tourism ratings and reviews site at http://reviews.treatmentabroad.com is moderated by two external professional moderators - dubious reviews are rejected, and IP addresses and email addresses of reviewers are checked for "vested interests". However, the best recommendation is from someone who has been to the hospital/clinic/doctor for the same treatment that you are considering. Any reputable medical tourism provider will be happy to put you in touch with someone.
__________________________________________________ ______

Oh yes, the above website is NOT the place to go for unbiased reviews. It is totally misleading and I dread to think how many people fall for this:eek::eek:

BitterAndTwisted

13-09-2009, 7:48 PM

Reading this thread has broken my heart about the disastrous treatment some of the posters have described and you do have my sympathy for what it's worth. i.e. not terribly much, I expect.

When I was on holiday in Goa a long time ago I saw a dentist recommended to me by people who had undergone treatment there. She was utterly charming, discussed with me the hygiene practices at the clinic and gave me some very, very interesting information about previous treatment I had received in the in the UK in the past which my own dentist at the time had not shared with me, if he was aware of it or even cared. She said that there were options open to me about what I had considered having done (crowns) but in her opinion it was not necessary or advisable as there was nothing wrong with the actual health of my teeth and that doing the work would entail a risk but it was up to me whether I wanted to proceed. I chose not to and was very grateful for her honesty. She gave me a quick scale and polish and charged me the sterling equivalent of about £3 I think.

I now see a private dentist in Central London who I consulted based on a personal recommendation, who is not inexpensive, but he has always advised me of my treatment options, the cost of them and the possible long-term outcome. I feel he has always been absolutely candid with me. He has also talked me out of having certain rather expensive treatments because he advised that they weren't strictly necessary so he didn't really want to carry them out, and about the risk involved with messing about with perfectly healthy teeth. I was considering having some amalgam fillings replaced at the time and then he sent me off to the hygienist, whose services I was in dire need of. I trust this fella implicitly and would be happy to recommend him to anyone who would care to pm me.