NHS v Private crownS

[DocLem]

Moved to a new area and went to the dentist (NHS) last week for the first time. Aparently I need three crowns done (two I knew about - one to complete root canal treatment and one fell out last week). The cost is 400 pounds for each one private (i.e. 1200 pounds total!) and 200 pounds on the NHS (i.e. 600 pound total). This is obviously a lot of money.

The dentist tried to convince me to go private - saying that the quality of the crown and the intensity of the treatment would be better, especially as for two of them, the tooths are already VERY filled. She also said that an NHS crown would only last one year, so if I pick NHS, I'll be back in her office again next year with the same problem.

Can I get some advice about this?

I should also add that over the years I've had a lot of dental work (despite being only late-20s) - probably a consequence of hereditary problems - and therefore will continue to need work as things always fail with time (in fact, I'll probably need fake teeth in the future).

I asked the dentist about going on an insurance plan and she said that once the three crowns are done, she'll sign me up on one. So I am tempted to go NHS with these 3 crowns, get an insurance plan, and then when they fail - get private replacements funded by the insurance plan. Is that legit?

I am really uncertain what to do, so any advice greatfully received. The dentist is really pushing me to go private ...

Thanks

[minskerella]

that seems a lot on the nhs. I thought that the price structure was capped now. My husband just had a root canal and three fillings and it was only about £40. I know that crowns are in the next category but £600 seems a hell of a jump!! Have you checked the nhs website?

[minskerella]

http://www.nhs.uk/England/Dentists/DentalCharges.cmsx

Look at this site - it looks like £194 should be the max you pay on the nhs regardless of how many crowns you need. it is the same price for 1 or numerous it seems. That is what we were told at our dentist too.

[Philippa36]

I paid £194 for 2 crowns to be replaced last week. I had waited and waited for these to be done but was finally persuaded when my O/H got free dental insurance through his work.
My dentist told me that they should last a long time ~ certainly longer than a year!
Is there no other dentist locally you can go and see?

[morg_monster]

Sounds like your dentist is pushing you towards the option that will line her pockets the most. She either doesn't understand the new NHS pricing system works (hm seems unlikely) or does and is deliberately trying to mislead you - not very nice!!
Other than that I don't have any advice apart from going to her with the NHS information above and asking her to explain it again. It seems unlikely to me that an NHS crown would only last 1 year!!
Where is Toothsmith when you need him?!

[Psykicpup]

Sounds like your dentist is pushing you towards the option that will line her pockets the most. She either doesn't understand the new NHS pricing system works (hm seems unlikely) or does and is deliberately trying to mislead you - not very nice!!
Other than that I don't have any advice apart from going to her with the NHS information above and asking her to explain it again. It seems unlikely to me that an NHS crown would only last 1 year!!
Where is Toothsmith when you need him?!

I signed up with my Private dentist 'cos he was cheaper:money: than our local NHS places...I'd been spending out on treatments etc for sensitive teeth since I turned 18 (plus fillings , root canals etc - cos I dont look after my teeth aparently:eek: )....private was cheaper,. never does any work unless we discuss why etc wants to KEEP my teeth! & calls my prevoius dentist a butcher... if he was expensive I could see why he would do this but he's cheaper then NHS....he also did a deep (undergum) clean which solved my sensitive teeth completely! (who needs sensodine lol) & rhinks my teeth have been looked after, by me, just fine!

What I was trying to say was.. check around - private isnt always dearer...:money:

[aussielle]

Funnily enough, I've just got back from a trip to the dentist

He said I need a crown and it's gonna cost £180...still in shock! I had no idea they were so expensive, and that's on the NHS. I did ask if he has a payment plan (tongue in cheek) but he wasn't amused, suppose I'm just going to have to save up to have it done

[Nile]

Hello DocLem

Welcome to the MSE site.:wave:

I'm sure that Toothsmith or Teerah (the dentists) will post on here, so don't make your decision until you've heard their advice.;)

I'm no expert but I also think that your dentist is being unfair about the quality of an NHS crown. My NHS dentist told me that my crowned tooth should last 20 years before it needs replacing.;)

Regards

Nile

[cattie]

I've had NHS crowns for years with no problem. A couple of years ago I paid out private to have a gold one changed to a white one for the simple reason that NHS wouldn't allow me to have a white one as it wasn't a front tooth, even though it showed when I smiled.

I Don't know if the regulations have changed now & if you are allowed to have white ones for anything other than front teeth.

[lesleystrawson]

I had my crowns replaced on the NHS when I was pregnant. :)
(free of course!)

I must say, that I think both of mine are fab. And they are my front 2 incisors as well, so they need to be.

[Savvy_Sue]

Hello DocLem

Welcome to the MSE site.:wave:

I'm sure that Toothsmith or Teerah (the dentists) will post on here, so don't make your decision until you've heard their advice.;)

I'm no expert but I also think that your dentist is being unfair about the quality of an NHS crown. My NHS dentist told me that my crowned tooth should last 20 years before it needs replacing.;)

Regards

NileToothsmith at least is more often on the health board: DocLem might like to ask the board guide to move this post over there where they'll see it.

[DocLem]

Toothsmith at least is more often on the health board: DocLem might like to ask the board guide to move this post over there where they'll see it.

How do I ask someone to move this thead?

P.S. The dentist has now confirmed that she can do the first two crowns as one n the NHS (i.e. onl one oayment of £200), but the third one would have to be separate - so it's £400 NHS, or £1200 private!

[Savvy_Sue]

Do you know, I don't know any more? Once upon a time there used to be a bit on the 'main' page of each board which told you who the board guides were for that board but I can't see it any more!

[MRSMCAWBER]

Hi there
Well done finding an NHS dentist :-)
when i moved here i couldnt find one for love nor money...so had to go private :-!!
But with hindsight im glad....my NHS butcher...sorry dentist fitted my 2 front teeth with veneers years ago that constantly came off...eventually taking part of my tooth with it... my new dentist explained that they use different materials (obviously cheaper) and that a lot of treatments arent available on the NHS-i was disgusted... i now have had a permenant bridge of 3 front teeth and i cant tell they arent my own...it cost £900 which was the only painfull bit of the whole process..but touch wood they have been no problem at all...baring in mind the amount of damage he had to put right..i had a front root canal where they had gone straight through the tooth so all the filler was in my gum...
So all in all as much as i object to £900 for 3 teeth it has been money well spent so far...and im told they should last better than my own teeth!!!

[Nile]

Hello DocLem

The board guides for this board are Glad and mini. Click on the name (eg Glad) and on the right hand side (under the heading Contact Info) click on 'send a private message to Glad'.

Your message could read something like:

Hello Glad. I'm a new member and would like my thread 'NHS v Private crownS' moved to the Health & Beauty board please.

Thanks

[Nile]

Do you know, I don't know any more? Once upon a time there used to be a bit on the 'main' page of each board which told you who the board guides were for that board but I can't see it any more!

It's still there...............at the bottom of the page.;)

[olive84]

Hi, I'm not a dentist, but I do work for a dental organisation. You can get crowns done on the NHS. This will fall in the highest price bracket. However, despite what people think about dentists, your dentist will not recommend you to get private work done to make more money. It will be because the quality of the work will be much much better than NHS work. The materials used will be of a higher cost, the lab fees will be higher, and the product will be far more superior to an NHS crown. Your dentist is recommending this option to you because he feels that it is in your best interests, not his. It is your decision as to whether you want to take his advice or not, but if you do want the private work there are a couple of payment plans out there that are good at making the work affordable.

[Toothsmith]

Hi, I'm not a dentist, but I do work for a dental organisation. You can get crowns done on the NHS. This will fall in the highest price bracket. However, despite what people think about dentists, your dentist will not recommend you to get private work done to make more money. It will be because the quality of the work will be much much better than NHS work. The materials used will be of a higher cost, the lab fees will be higher, and the product will be far more superior to an NHS crown. Your dentist is recommending this option to you because he feels that it is in your best interests, not his. It is your decision as to whether you want to take his advice or not, but if you do want the private work there are a couple of payment plans out there that are good at making the work affordable.

That's a fair enough point - and true up to a point.

There are very strict rules surrounding the provision of NHS dental treatment though, and the OPs dentist is breaking the lot!

She is not allowed to say that an NHS crown will only last a year. How can she possibly know that? Is it programmed to distruct? I've seen some terrible crowns last for ages! If a crown is really that bad - she shouldn't be doing it under any circumstances. So she shouldn't have agreed to do any NHS work at all if she can't do it properly.

It is also blatently wrong to say 2 crowns can be done on one NHS treatment, but a third must be done as a seperate course costing another £194. If you needed 15 crowns and were an NHS patient - you would be entitled to them all for 1 Band three price of £194. That is one of the reasons the new NHS contract is completely unworkable.

It is my opinion that if more dentists had refused to have anything to do with this contract, then there would have had to be a rethink.

Many have signed it, get their monthly wad of NHS money, but pick and choose what they provide for it.

This is wrong - and should not be tolerated by anybody.

My advice to the OP would be to look around for a dentist who is prepared to do work based on her needs, and who can talk openly and honestly about the costs involved.

[LondonDiva]

Well said ~ toothsmith!

Also would strongly reccommend you contact the PALS (& by contacting them, filtering the info to the dental contract team) of your local PCT to let them know what is going on.

http://www.nhs.uk/England/AuthoritiesTrusts/Pct/postcodeSearch.aspx

[Glad]

Hi, Martin’s asked me to post this in these circumstances: I’ve asked Board Guides to move threads if they’ll receive a better response elsewhere (please see this rule (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=1009335#post1009335)) so this post/thread has been moved to another board, where it should get more replies. If you have any questions about this policy please email abuse@moneysavingexpert.com (abuse@moneysavingexpert.com).

[peachespeaches]

Ive had a NHS crown for about 20 years and its as good as the private one I had last year, and caused me less hassle settling down.

[Toothsmith]

20 years ago, the vast majority of crowns were provided on the NHS, and funding was such that they could still be made pretty well.

[Savvy_Sue]

It's still there...............at the bottom of the page.;)Must have been in my blind spot - I couldn't see it! :rotfl:(the names of the board guides ...)

[steff]

hi i have just got back from the dentist who told me i need root canal and a crown done on one tooth, i was told nhs would cost £198 and private would cost £740 a big differance, he advised me to get the root canal done private as the time and technics would be better, but if it is the same dentist preforming the root canal shouldnt the technics be the same?

[Toothsmith]

hi i have just got back from the dentist who told me i need root canal and a crown done on one tooth, i was told nhs would cost £198 and private would cost £740 a big differance, he advised me to get the root canal done private as the time and technics would be better, but if it is the same dentist preforming the root canal shouldnt the technics be the same?


In an ideal world - yes they should.

Really, if he doesn't think he can do the job properly on the NHS, then he shouldn't do NHS stuff at all. I don't.

[mummyyummy]

toothsmith, i was at dentist today. he said i need a temp crown replaced and another crown put next to it (2 top middle front teeth) and would bridge it? and i need 4 fillings (yes i know im terrified that why i leave it so long) anyway, he is an nhs dentist, although im not exempt so ill have to pay..he said in total £300, £198 for crowns and £88 for fillings, im presuming the rest must be examintion/check up charges..is this correct then? would you advise me and OH getting some type dental insurance plan as he is also about to start some major work too..ps i also wanna get teeth whitened, i know nhs wont do this, how much roughly does it cost and can i get it when ive got crowns? thankyou

[mummyyummy]

oh yeah, and prob a really really dumb question, but why do NHS charge for you to see a dentist but not a doctor? always wondered that?

[Toothsmith]

he said in total £300, £198 for crowns and £88 for fillings, im presuming the rest must be examintion/check up charges..is this correct then? would you advise me and OH getting some type dental

This is complete rubbish - the most you pay for one course of NHS treatment (In England and Wales) is £198.

That would include check up, any X-rays, clean up, any number of fillings, root fillings and crowns.

If there were no crowns involved, the charge would be £44.20.

What's with 'temporary' crowns anyway?

If this dentist is telling you that this is NHS treatment, and NHS charges, then he is committing fraud, and a complaint to the PCT would be in order.

[Toothsmith]

oh yeah, and prob a really really dumb question, but why do NHS charge for you to see a dentist but not a doctor? always wondered that?

That was started by a Labour government in 1948 - a year after they started the NHS, when the dumb £sses realized they'd bankrupt the country if dentistry remained free of charge on the NHS.

All governments have been trying to squeeze dentistry completely out of the NHS ever since.

The political history of dentistry in the NHS really is fascinating, and if they lie about other subjects as much as they do about dentistry, then we're all up the proverbial creek without a paddle!

[mummyyummy]

This is complete rubbish - the most you pay for one course of NHS treatment (In England and Wales) is £198.

That would include check up, any X-rays, clean up, any number of fillings, root fillings and crowns.

If there were no crowns involved, the charge would be £44.20.

What's with 'temporary' crowns anyway?

If this dentist is telling you that this is NHS treatment, and NHS charges, then he is committing fraud, and a complaint to the PCT would be in order.
Im in scotland, does that make any difference? i also wondered, does it make a dif to price if dentist makes treatment last a bit longer..i.e. rather than doing it over a 6 week/2 month timescale, what if he was busy and it went over 3 / 4 months, would that make a diff to price? what im trying to say lol is, is there a timescale on treatment that wouldnt qualify it for the standard £198? also, my friend seeing that dentist too and has to get 3 or 4 dentures on a plate..she has choice of metal / acrylic? would that also come under the £198 top price? she had an exemption card as she works full time, but as a single mum gets working tax credits which we dont..thankyou

[Toothsmith]

Im in scotland, does that make any difference? i also wondered, does it make a dif to price if dentist makes treatment last a bit longer..i.e. rather than doing it over a 6 week/2 month timescale, what if he was busy and it went over 3 / 4 months, would that make a diff to price? what im trying to say lol is, is there a timescale on treatment that wouldnt qualify it for the standard £198? also, my friend seeing that dentist too and has to get 3 or 4 dentures on a plate..she has choice of metal / acrylic? would that also come under the £198 top price? she had an exemption card as she works full time, but as a single mum gets working tax credits which we dont..thankyou


Right - that's why I always put in the 'England and Wales' bit now. Our 'NATIONAL' health service is now different in different regions.

Scotland still works on the pre-April 2006 system, and there are different charges for each item of treatment, and a max charge of somewhere in the £300 range.

I'm not well up enough on the charge regimes and structures on the NHS in Scotland to be able to gve any meaningful advice here, but the earlier charges you quoted for your treatment may well be NHS charges up there. There should be a leaflet available either at the dental practice, or from the PCT that would give you an idea of the charges, and who pays them.