View Full Version : car failed MOT HORRENDOUSLY- what now?
Hi I'm hoping someone can help me, I'm a bit distraught over all of this!
I bought a R reg Ford Ka around 11 months ago for £1,300. I have just taken it for its MOT and they said it's one of the most dangerous cars they've seen.
Apparantly it has awful corrosion all underneath (the mehanic said he put his thumb through the chassis by accident) and they wouldn't do the rolling road brake test because he reckoned it was quite likely my car would have just split or broken if the brakes were applied too sharply. He said the welding underneath was no where near up to standard and that in places it was just spots of welding. Then the woman at the garage stopped him talking because I was crying so much!!
It's really scared me that I was driving around in this.
But... now do I just scrap the car? Do I have ANY comeback on the man who sold it to me (who carried out the dangerous welding). What about the garage that passed it last year?
Thankyou,
Holley
Gorgeous George
22-03-2007, 7:16 PM
It may be worth contacting your trading standards for advice but, I fear, you may not get any compensation for this car.
Also, it may be worth having a friend look at the car to confirm that the MOT test station are not exaggerating.
It could just prove to be an expensive lesson.
GG
Thankyou George. I will contact trading standards.
This is the second time this has happened to me! 2 expensive lessons, hopefully I have learnt now... I am sending a big scary man to buy my cars in the future!! Or maybe just have a mechanic check it over.
milkydrink
22-03-2007, 7:26 PM
Was it a private seller you bought it off or a garage?
If private I doubt theres much you can do, but if a garage perhaps the trading standards?
Also they may be interested in the fact that such a dangerous car was passed a year ago.
I'm getting my car MOTed in a couple of weeks, I have booked it in at the local council testing station for an MOT (on the advice of what I read on the motoring pages on here), could it be worth you doing that, to make sure the garage are not trying it on?
Mind you it sounds like they weren't trying for a repair more like telling you to scrap it.
Bad luck:(
Yup they just told me to scrap it. :( They also said they would look over any new car I was looking at for free to see if its safe, or at least not in the state of mine!!
The seller is apparantly well known (or so the garage said when they asked where I got it from) for buying up scrap cars, getting them through an MOT and selling them. He has a garage (apparantly) but I bought it from him at his home. Maybe I'm niave but personally I just couldn't watch someone drive away in a 'death trap'.
trets77
22-03-2007, 7:49 PM
don,t worry my car squeezed through it's MOT last year only to be declared dangerous on 9 points this. i don't lose sleep over it
look in your local paper in classified car adds to see if any scrap merchants are offering cash to come and collect your old car
GOT £60 for mine !!!
may i also suggest getting something hard wearing , good safety with full FSH and low maintenace this time . Nissan Micras tick lots of boxs IMO as they are japanese , have chains instead of belts too.
blue_haddock
22-03-2007, 7:56 PM
An MOT only proves that the vehicle is fit to drive on the day it is done - the welding may have been sufficient and up to scratch on the day. This means the car may have been perfectly ok last year but has worsened since, once rust has set in it is very difficult to cure fully.
It would be foolish to scrap the car though, if you no longer wish to drive it i would recommend selling it on ebay as spares or repair. If you can weld yourself the repairs may not actually cost that much so could be a nice project for someone else.
chilli_dog
22-03-2007, 8:02 PM
Did you have a HPI check done on your car? It will record any major accidents the car has been in?
I didn't have any checks done on it. (Lesson learnt).
Blue haddock- I'm worried that if I ebay it, someone else will do exactly the same thing, patch it up and sell it to someone just like me. Ethically I'm a bit torn about this, am I right to be? But it is a lovely car and it does seem a shame to scrap it. And I am an incredibly poor student, eeek, ethics or the cash!?
Gorgeous George
22-03-2007, 8:33 PM
Selling it for spares can be more profitable than scrapping it. For example, I recently paid £60 for a new door handle.
Sell it for spares and make it clear that it's an MOT failure. Don't lose sleep over it.
:)
GG
northern_munky
22-03-2007, 8:35 PM
Did it only fail on welding? Why not get a few quotes from welders and see what they say. I can't see it would be worth scrapping unless it is really bad, although Ford Ka are know for rusting.
Quinny
22-03-2007, 9:10 PM
Cut your losses,and scrap it,but if you do,make sure that you notify the DVLA,via your log book,that it's been scrapped.
Ken.
dump it fast and dont look back, its a kick in the teeth but you live and learn, at least you wernt in an accident.
if you are concerend with safty or durability you are better steering away from dinky little motors wich will sit the engine on your lap in a headon, for £1300 you could have had an old e-class or bmw 5 series, even a 7 series if you have the space to park .
encap can do what they want physics and watching the 5th gear test proved to me that in a smash a big saloon car with 6 foot of bonnet is a much preferable place to be, the big brute would smack into cars rideup and deform the bonet a bit but most could drive away with no cabin deformation, the golfs etc were basicly crushed to the point of goodby all passengers.
if you give me your anyual milage, replacement budget, number of noclaims, family requirements etc ill be happy to tell you the type of car i would recomend. i cant say im the most sensible[1] but i can certianly stear you away from some obvious dogs you may consider.
[1] i used to commute to work on a 1liter 2 wheeled death machine and regard most modern car gadgets with discust but know a bit about good older cars.
Hi epz,
I'm 21 so can't afford big engines/expensive insurance. I really want an old mini but now I'm a bit more concerned about safety so unsure. I'm not sure how much money I'll have to spend but it won't be a lot at all. 10,000 miles a year. Just me so no family requirements! Would like something small and as cheap as possible to run.
Any ideas? Thankyou.
old minis are sylish but lethal, they wernt safe 30 years ago, add the effects of 100,000+ odd miles on an old chassie and the fact the average suv could probaly drive over it like a speedbump and i would rather have a sodding moped.
21 might be an issue but if you have had your licence over 2 years you can get classic insurance, i only had mine 1 year (im 27 though) but got offered £400 on my renewal, if i had been driving 2 years it would be £230 and thats on a 2liter mercedes 190e. i also got offered £400 for a 3000 mile limited policy on a 5.6 liter merc sec which is an autmotive work of art.
ill be honest, for low money the best deals are all on big saloons since younger poorer kids will always buy 15 year old corsas and sometimes pay more than bigger cars?
i grant you dinky little cars are better on petrol but the gradual saving on petrol and insurance is eaten by depreciation and the fact they fall to bits and need to be replaced earlyier.
it may be a no-go but i would get an autotrader and call round a whole buch of companies to see if its possible, dont be put off if the first few are high i was orignally quoted £1700 buy the first few agents.
at the £500 level you could get a saab 900 or merc 190e, the merc guzzels a bit more petrol but i love mine to bits, try for the 2 liter versions of both.
at the £750 mark you are getting to audi a6 teritory and possibly merc E classes, £1000 and you can find merc CE's and good eclasses/ 5series. the pillerless CE is way cool and all these big old german lumps of metal are immortal and my 17 year old merc is higher speced than my folks new car and just as reliable.
look at some photos of those models and tell me you seriously would prefer a more modern bland, dinky and dull cars.
KrisPringle
22-03-2007, 11:56 PM
Dont get a mini if your concerned about safety, they are deathtraps.
For your budget i would recommend a Vauxhall Corsa 1.5 TD.
They are cheap to buy and run. They have an isuzu sourced turbo diesel engine which is highly reliable (mine had 149k on it when i sold it, i saw the car a year later still on the road). You could probably get a facelift one with the colour coded bumpers, airbags etc... for a shade over a grand.
Either that or maybe a seat ibiza. Both reliable cheap to buy/run cars.
Hope this is of help
Kris
GunJack
23-03-2007, 12:12 AM
18 months ago I paid £450 for a P reg Seat Ibiza, last sep it cleared it's MoT no probs, 40+ to the galon, cheap tax and insurance.....wouldn't spend much more than that on a car ever...
blue_haddock
23-03-2007, 8:10 AM
Even if you sell the vehicle to a scrap merchant they may well still sell the vehicle on as salvage - ie to be repaired and put back on the road so there is little point in you actually scrapping it. I do think that ebay as spares or repair is the best way forward to get a decent amount of cash for it.
As for the replacement this is where things get more difficult. I would totally disregard an old mini as if you thought your KA rusted badly you don't want to think about how badly mini's rust.
I wouldn't personally recommend an old BMW or Mercedes - yes you get a big car for not much cash but if anything goes wrong (and it will) you are looking at serious amounts of cash to sort it out.
When buying cars at this sort of price it is best not to get too fixed on one particular make or model - it is much better to have an idea of what you want and then just have a good lok round for something to come up that is suitable. As you don't really appear to be too clued up on cars and what to look for you really do need to take along somone with some mechanical knowledge to check it over.
Now I know wanting a Mini is a bit ridiculous and it is the safety thing that's putting me off at the moment. But I am in love with them and a big fan of the design. I don't really travel long distances so it would just be for running around really. I think I'm trying to convince myself now.
I'll try sticking the car on ebay then, I was going to put all the things it failed on then anyone who takes it on would be fully aware of it's state, I'm hoping that's right.
epz- I like the saab, but I'm worried those big cars will just cost too much (repairs and petrol) especially as I travel lots of short distances. I have nearly 2 years no claims.
Blue haddock- I am definately taking someone with me this time. And I think your advice is sensible about looking for a good car that's suitable rather than a particular make or model.
Thankyou all for helping me, I am everso grateful.
oldbuffer
23-03-2007, 9:06 AM
Just be thankful the MOT man found the problem BEFORE you had an accident in it.
highguyuk
23-03-2007, 9:09 AM
I'll try sticking the car on ebay then, I was going to put all the things it failed on then anyone who takes it on would be fully aware of it's state, I'm hoping that's right.
I'd just put MOT failure to be honest - and then if anyone asks let them know.
Update...
I contacted trading standards and they think I have a case! Their advice was: because my mechanic is saying the repairs should not have passed an MOT last year, and I bought the car because it had a years worth of MOT, the car was not as described.
pinkshoes
23-03-2007, 3:32 PM
I think it sounds really suspicious that in just 12 months a car can go from passing an MOT to failing in style! Do you know if the person that did the MOT last time has any connection with the guy that sold it? I remember seeing something on TV about garages passing cars on their MOT even when they really shouldn't...
as for another car, i had a 10 year old Ford Fiesta that was really good. Cheap parts, good mpg . You should be able to pick one up for about £600.
Wayne3765
23-03-2007, 4:50 PM
An MOT only proves that the vehicle is fit to drive on the day it is done - the welding may have been sufficient and up to scratch on the day. This means the car may have been perfectly ok last year but has worsened since.
If it is only spot welded in parts then it was nowhere near MOT standard at the time of testing last year.
dook, the point about bigger cars is the parts cost about the same or marginaly more, the labout is the same or even less as they are better thought out so it takes less time. the kicker is the parts can often last twice as long as similar small cars, im not even just talking about obvious stuff like engines which always wear out faster but shocks, transmission and obviously they have much better quallity paint so dont rust much.
petrol, well i woulnt kid you, its going to be a bit more but nothing horrific unless you start doing 90 everwhere or get a v8. think of it like this would you rather pay a little extra each week for a safer higher spec more confortable car or have to find hundreds/thousands to get a new car when the old one give up the ghost unexpectadly.
autotrader says there are lots of 1999 saab 9-3's at about 100k miles adveritsed for £1200 meaning about a grand, they get 33mpg combined. stuff like fiestas have a comperable purchase price (some might have lower miles but miles mean a lot more on small engines) get 44 mpg combined for the most gutless one and you have to drive round in the soding thing.
frankly you need to do the sums youself but i know if it were my choice between i high spec £24 grand motor with all the bells vs a cheep and nasty £8k one which had lower running cost i wouldnt hesitate. think of all nurses you petrol will pay for, its practically your duty lol.
tomstickland
23-03-2007, 8:04 PM
The car hasn't fallen apart when driving it, so just how "dangerous" it is is open to question. Corroded shells can be welded. It just depends on how much work is needed and how much it would cost.
I wouldn't personally recommend an old BMW or Mercedes - yes you get a big car for not much cash but if anything goes wrong (and it will) you are looking at serious amounts of cash to sort it out.
BMW parts are plentiful and cheap providing you don't go to a main dealer. There are independant BMW specialist garages out there.
blue_haddock
23-03-2007, 8:18 PM
I agree with Epz that bigger cars often offer better value for money but the more complex the car the more there is to go wrong with it - and it will go wrong at some point.
A brand new cat converter for a saxo or fiesta can be picked for £50 whereas one for an BMW 5 Series will be 3 times that. An exhaust backbox for a clio can be had for £25 but a luxo-barge one will be a lot lot more. Have a little accident and a headlight for a polo can be had for £25, a headlight for an E Class will be more like a hundred.
As regards the mini idea it's probably best to buy one as a 2nd car in a few years when you have more spare cash and don't have to rely on it as day to day transport.
A brand new cat converter for a saxo or fiesta can be picked for £50 whereas one for an BMW 5 Series will be 3 times that. An exhaust backbox for a clio can be had for £25 but a luxo-barge one will be a lot lot more. Have a little accident and a headlight for a polo can be had for £25, a headlight for an E Class will be more like a hundred.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/N-S-HEADLAMP-WITH-WIPER-MOTOR-W124-124-E-CLASS_W0QQitemZ220094486698QQcategoryZ10398QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem?hash=item220094486698
ebay says £27 for a headlight and £50 for a cat, granted the auction isnt over yet but these beasts last for ever so breakers have loads of parts available.
if you are talking about new parts fair enough but who would put a new part on a 10+ year old car.
[QUOTE=tomstickland;4688673]The car hasn't fallen apart when driving it, so just how "dangerous" it is is open to question. Corroded shells can be welded. It just depends on how much work is needed and how much it would cost.
Well... just had a second opinion. And he said exactly that. And he might be able to fix it and then he suggested I part exchange it.
Hmmm.
I am quite sold on the Saab idea though. (But possibly need to get over this design over function issue that I have).
Thankyou again everyone for your help.
Oh and also... second opinion mechanic questioned the MOT failure documentation. On the covering report the MOT tester stated he had not tested the brakes (as he told me he would not put my car on the rolling road as it was too dangerous) but on the 2nd red page he states that he has failed my car on the brakes and the handbrake.
Is there any way he could fail them without carrying out the brake test? (Like he couldn't just have driven my car in and thought the brakes didn't feel right or something?).
Gees, I thought the days of rotten cars were gone.....
One of my mazda mx-3`s is 16 years old & no rust.
Anyway the KA is a popular car. Put it on ebay for spares/repairs.
Should fetch over £150..........
northern_munky
24-03-2007, 9:20 AM
Whatever you do don't scrap it until you have had at least two or three quotes on how much the repair will be, you might be able to get it fixed for £300 and you'd never get a decent car for that money.
As for the brakes, It could have a leak from a wheel cylinder which he spotted while underneath, or maybe its a corroded brake pipe or handbrake cable frayed. All depends what the fail sheet says????
Whatever you do don't scrap it until you have had at least two or three quotes on how much the repair will be, you might be able to get it fixed for £300 and you'd never get a decent car for that money.
As for the brakes, It could have a leak from a wheel cylinder which he spotted while underneath, or maybe its a corroded brake pipe or handbrake cable frayed. All depends what the fail sheet says????
£300 is close to what you could get a differnt car for, look at it like this you have one garage which has no vested interest saying its so unsafe they are not prepaired to even test the brakes, basicly doing themselves out of business.
then you get a second quote and they tell you they can fix it fif you give them £300, who are you going to trust? its not like we are talking about saving a couple of quid on a fridge etc, this thing could cripple mame or kill the op and their passengers.
unfortuanly it seems the op paid over the odds for an accident damaged car which has had its history hidden, you live you learn, the reall mistake is to keep throwing money at a dog because you spent so much on it in the 1st place.
dook let us know how you get on with your new car, i would also get the garage that warned you to check it out before you buy it, also put your future business way. an honest and professional garage is worth a lot it terms of them not ripping you off and actually doing the maintenance properly thus preventing components failing early
northern_munky
24-03-2007, 5:14 PM
£300 is close to what you could get a differnt car for, look at it like this you have one garage which has no vested interest saying its so unsafe they are not prepaired to even test the brakes, basicly doing themselves out of business.
then you get a second quote and they tell you they can fix it fif you give them £300, who are you going to trust? its not like we are talking about saving a couple of quid on a fridge etc, this thing could cripple mame or kill the op and their passengers.
But that could be like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. £300 does not get you much. None of us know how bad this car is, it's all speculation and that's why it is bad advice to tell someone to scrap their car without knowing the full story. Maybe the garage are right and it isn't worth repairing but where's the harm in asking for some quotes, it doesn't cost anything.
Yes it is dangerous in the state it is now but it won't be after it has been repaired and MOTd, most garages and mechanics are competent and trustworthy (I know, I worked as a mechanic for 13 years) and if it can be repaired for £300ish then that's the route I'd take.
Sarahjovi
24-03-2007, 6:11 PM
Just a quick 2 penniths worth from non motor techie women!
I had a Saab 900 approx 16 years ago, it cost me £25 a week then just to drive a few miles to work a back! And the repair bills were horrendous and it had to go into a Saab garage to be sorted (I did try other garages, but they couldn't fix it!).
I currently drive an R reg Rover 100 which I bought off Ebay for £330 (I took a chance). I put it through the MOT this Feb and all it needed was a pair of windscreen wipers to pass! (very lucky I know). It costs me £20 every 2 - 3 weeks in petrol, depending where I go. I've had 3 of these cars altogether now (last 2 were actually Rover Metro's), the last one got written off in an accident last year (rear ended by a much bigger car and the one before that got stolen and burnt). However, they seem to be cheap to buy and cheap to run, the only major problem seems to be rotten wheel arches.
Its very bad luck to have bought such a rotten car with a years MOT, do you have anyone with a bit of Car knowledge who could come and look at a car with you, when you go to buy!
I hope you manage to buy something a bit more decent!
Cheers
Sarah
The second garage is looking at the car now but he referred to the guy who did the MOT as a 'cabbage'! He said my car is definately not dangerous and it is fixable (he thinks). Now I don't understand why the MOT tester would tell me its so dangerous if he didn't believe it. The only explanations I can come up with is a) it's true, b) he's mad or c) he said I could leave my car there and he would scrap it for free (but he wasn't pushy about it or anything). The new machanic showed me the rust and it didn't look that bad (but then, as I think we have established, I am not a mechanic ;) )
The brake test thing is a bit weird, he doesn't specify how my brakes failed it was just a general statement about they hadn't passed (I don't know the exact wording as the fail sheet is with my car at the garage), but page 1 said he had not carried out the test.:confused:
It's all very strange.
An item can only "pass" the MOT test if it is tested, as he did not do the brake test because of the rust, could mean it failed on them as it was not tested on them.
manda1205
25-03-2007, 1:59 PM
lots of places dont like welding, i know i dont so i farm it out to anybody i could, holes look worse than they are usually, Ka's dont really rot too badly except the obligatory patch on the sill below the door shut
they can only really rust on the sills, floor to sills and maybe some bits on chassis rails and floor pans even if all that was gone it could be fixed for 300 or so then just underseal it to get the job done without all the paint costs theres not alot to rust on a Ka
no car would fall in half thru rot if its that old, your 1st man doesnt like hot rocks on his head when welding i'd guess
running to other garages saying its been condemed wont do you many favors getting it done cheap tho but if the 2nd guy seems genuine worth seeing what he says
no doubt if you left it with him for scrapping it would be driving past you next week with a full ticket, he must have thought he couldnt lose, no welding free car worth a grand fixed up job done
Dont get a mini if your concerned about safety, they are deathtraps.
For your budget i would recommend a Vauxhall Corsa 1.5 TD.
They are cheap to buy and run. They have an isuzu sourced turbo diesel engine which is highly reliable (mine had 149k on it when i sold it, i saw the car a year later still on the road). You could probably get a facelift one with the colour coded bumpers, airbags etc... for a shade over a grand.
Either that or maybe a seat ibiza. Both reliable cheap to buy/run cars.
Hope this is of help
Kris
I had a corsa 1.5TD and it had 185k on the clock
Unfortantly someone crashed into and wrote it off!!! so it sat on my drive not started for 5 months! when my claim was sorted i got the scrap yard to collect it. it started first time!!! unbelieveble!
moonrakerz
25-03-2007, 8:17 PM
Apparantly it has awful corrosion all underneath (the mehanic said he put his thumb through the chassis by accident)
Just come across this thread - chassis on a modern car ? some mechanic !!!
Jenny_S
25-03-2007, 8:38 PM
if you go for a mini, check that the rear subframe isnt rusty, thats what mine failed its mot on this yr, the garage probably put a dodgy mot on it when i bought it coz it wasnt safe.
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