What is and isn't acceptable on this board. [Archive]

MSE Martin

22-02-2005, 1:32 PM

I think it is important for me to clarify exactly what is and what isn't permissible on this board.

What it is for

This board is a discussion of all issues surrounding health, diet, nutrition and how they relate to MoneySaving. Discussing medical insurance policies, cheaper ways to see consultants, cashback for alternative health treatments, how to get specific medication cheaper (legally) are all perfectly acceptable forms of discussion.

What it is not for

It is very specifically and strictly not for the discussion of what to do in the event of certain medical problems. Please do not ask questions about this. If you're having problems use facilities such as NHS direct and your doctor to go and talk through what you should do.

Even though there are medically qualified people sometimes visiting these forums, I would ask them to restrain from answering specific medical questions.

Even though you know you are medically qualified, others don't. There is no way of proving it and this leads us open to somebody coming on, pretending to be a doctor when they're not and giving advice.

As such it is very important there is a blanket rule that nobody no matter who (not even Robert Winston) should be giving any form of medical advice or detailing what to do on these boards.

I am aware that some discussions have slipped down this route in the past couple of weeks. Well, this is a moratorium. We're starting afresh from here.

And please don't think that this is a telling off, of any variety. It's just a clarification of what is permissible and what's not. I wanted to see how the board developed for a couple of weeks before writing about this, and I think it's important to say this at this point.

Please do ask any questions here and I will do my best to respond.

Martin :)

Fran

22-02-2005, 3:33 PM

Perhaps you could state a polite way of telling people this that everyone can use?

Ted_Hutchinson

22-02-2005, 5:40 PM

While I understand the reasons behind this policy I would like to explain to the forum moderators my personal history and why I think the over-reliance on the medical profession isn't in the public's best interests.

Since I had Polio at the age of 5 not one medically qualified person has ever told me about the late effects of polio (http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/post_polio/detail_post_polio.htm). If I relied on any of my doctors I still wouldn't be aware that the disabling consequences I suffer are a result of my previous polio.

Recently I suffered an irreversible failure of bladder function which means I now have to self-catheterise 5 times a day. While a quick google search will produce ample evidence of the reasons for the connection between the late effects of polio and a neurogenic bladder it remains the case that my consultant cannot be arsed to check the facts in the public domain and prefers to regard my condition as idiopathic.

A similar pattern of gross ignorance and sheer stupidity has surrounded the chronic fatigue I have suffered for years. Only relatively recently have I discovered the benefits for those with the late effects of polio of the supplement L'Carnitine (http://www.upnaway.com/~poliowa/Serum%20Carnitine%20Levels%202002.html). The use of this has changed my life so that from hardly being able to get out of bed I am now able to get around the house and garden. It seems harsh and unreasonable to me to prevent links to peer reviewed scientific research For example to that supporting the use of L'carnitine in relation to those suffering the late effects of polio, or indeed the chronic fatigue suffered by those with MS (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14759641) or CFS (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15039515) being given here.

It was through a forum link that I discovered the reasons behind my progressive deterioration. No amount of doctors visits would have enlightened me. As far as I am concerned it is very important that each individual takes responsibility for their own health and keeps abreast of the current research and understands the limitations of current medicines and therapies available through the NHS. While I understand that this site cannot accept responsibility for the quality of the information provided by the posters I feel the restrictions on posting outlined above are unreasonable and unjustified. In my view it is wrong to prevent people being given access to information which may well improve their lives. Providing the poster has checked there is no medical risk involved so the recommendations are safe and the readers are in a position to assess the provenance of the information provided they surely must be regarded as sufficiently mature to proceed or not withor without the advice and support of their health professionals as they choose.

Ted_Hutchinson

22-02-2005, 10:14 PM

It is very difficult to give good advice online in relation to any aspect of life and a face to face consultation with an appropriately qualified expert will almost always produce better results.

However, discussing the possible pros and cons of any situation with others who either have experienced that situation themselves or who are able to provide links to the latest research or to nationally recognised sources of independent guidance will enable the reader to understand the issues better and be properly informed, so that when they come to discuss the matter with their professional advisers in a one to one situation they will be better able to take on board the information and advice they are being offered.

Getting advice from a professional, whether it's financial, medical or welfare rights, is always a steep learning curve and any efforts you have made to understand what they are telling you either before or after the interview will help that information better become part of your understanding.

In many ways the patient is the expert in the way their condition affects them yet it is rare for a health professional to take this on board. I don't think anyone has ever suggested that online advice should ever be taken as gospel but if people have concerns about their health it is reasonable for an exchange of views and experiences to take place and for mature adults to be solely responsible for the actions they take with their own bodies. Relying solely on the expertise of the medical profession can be as dangerous as relying solely on any other source of advice.

trafalgar

22-02-2005, 10:20 PM

and for mature adults to be solely responsible for the actions they take with their own bodies..

Prehaps this is where the problem lies,maybe martins concern is that it cannot be guaranteed that 'mature' 'responsible' or even 'adults' will be using the information if it is on this site.

mini

22-02-2005, 10:38 PM

The health board has been rather vague up until now, if someone posts about xyz disease for specific advice, could we change their request to whether anybody knows of any relevant research articles or useful discussion forums? Rather than asking them not to ask here, maybe a more friendly, useful & safer way of steering away fom actual personal advice giving:confused:

mini:cool: with her night vision goggles on as she ventures through the darkness trying to find her way to Board Guide school

trafalgar

22-02-2005, 10:41 PM

Fran

23-02-2005, 2:18 AM

I agree with Ted on this. I don't see the difference between someone telling a person in a post the best way (in their opinion) to get out of debt - especially the new help board for debt, and someone saying the best way (in their opinion) to improve their health and therefore almost certainly their financial situation.

With so many eyes on this site there will always be someone to point out where someone has overstepped the mark.

A lot of people with depression and related illnesses that have been discussed on this site before, won't be able to get out of bed, let alone go to a doctor, also some people have a mistrust of doctors and it seems like a flippant reply to someone with that kind of problem to just say go to the doctor (as if they didn't know that or haven't already been to their doctor). The equivalent on the debt help board would be for everyone to just say "go to the free debt advice places", without putting in the personal experience which is what people are interested in for support and managing their situations. The same applies to people with depression etc., these threads have brought up a lot of highly researched information from Ted and others and I would say that the type of replies from them come with perhaps even more research and knowledge than people replying to a debt thread just because they have been in that situation themselves.

If Ted's (and others) replies give someone the direction and incentive to find out how to alleviate their depression or other conditions and by doing so they are more able to cope with their finances then to me that seems just as relevant to moneysaving as helping someone get out of debt.

Glad

23-02-2005, 7:24 AM

I would love to have a board where people could post their problems and I along with others could try to help, I have a vast range of knowledge and experience, and each of my answers would be well researched before being posted.
However I know who I am, do you?
What is there to stop someone posting on here, posing as a medical professional and gathering info off the web to post their replies, what if one day they mistakenly or deliberately posted some advice that was wrong or even dangerous, who is held liable?

That is not to say that people can't pose their questions and concerns over the internet, just not on this site, this is a site dealing with moneysaving and yes on some of the boards non-money topics do get discussed but they don't have the same potential to have dangerous implications. If people are finding this site to answer their money problems then I'm sure they can search for sites that are more geared toward their specific medical problems.

Up until now I was quite happy to continue letting people discuss and chat about their conditions and receive support from other site members, but due to site rules Mini and I were trying to stop the giving of specific medical/treatment advice. However after pointing out Andrea's announcement of the rules, some posters thought to find a lot of these chattier type threads and post on them that discussing medical issues is not allowed, without seeing the difference between support and actual medical advice.
So following on from this uncertaintity Martin has drawn up and posted the above rules. Ultimately it is his site and his decision.

pickle

23-02-2005, 8:02 AM

I think that Martin has a point. He (and the board) have a responsibility (and is probably a legal responsibility) to ensure that someone doesn't take advice from here and something happen to them. I, for one, take notice of this as i think it's easy to forget that someone might read it and not perhaps check their own medications or medical history. You can't assume that everyone has common sense or the knowledge of their own symptoms and the ability to accurately diagnose themselves. I also agree that the NHS and GPs often don't provide adequate explanation or delve into the medical problems people have due to various reasons (eg. can't be bothered, lack of time, poor communication skills etc). I guess the only option left is to lobby MPs to make sure that the system gets improved. In the meantime, independently researching the internet for medically based research rather than ad-hoc advice is an option.

queensway_boy

23-02-2005, 8:30 AM

I would love to have a board where people could post their others could try to help, I have a vast range of knowledge and experience, and each of my answers would be well researched before being posted.
However I know who I am, do you?

Yes we do know who we are.

Edinburghlass

23-02-2005, 8:41 AM

I think though Ted, that you are missing the point in that did you gain the information you found from a Moneysaving website?

There is a big difference between being supportive of someone who is suffering from depression, diabetes etc to giving them actual advice as to how to manage their illness.

I would imagine there are forums on the internet for every conceivable thing and they presumably have their legal limits as has MSE. Martin has given his limits and obviously these should be adhered to.

Traf posted recently when her daughter was diagnosed with gestational diabetes. A number of people responded, myself included, with their experiences and I have no doubt that helped Traf and her family. The posters did not give advice as to how to handle the diabetes. On the debt boards the posters give their advice as to how they coped with their debt problems BUT yet the best advice they give is to see a professional. Maybe the first professional someone might see may not be the best person for that particular problem but I would hope that the advice given would be to find another professional to help and not expect that the person standing next to you in the pub whose mother has suffered the same can give you the same expertise.

mini

23-02-2005, 9:13 AM

I can see the relationship between debt & depression, there are many depression communities on the internet some of them even mention this site :)

I think we need to keep away from advice giving, more pointers in the direction of further support and information. Debt advice such as transfer your credit card to a 0% card is unlikely to cause harm whereas some one posting to say I took blah anti depressants they saved my life, well not all medications work on people in the same way, still using anti depressants as an example, for some people increase the occurence of suicidal thoughts. There is a limit to what can be posted here & I think the health queries are too involved to attempt to answer in full & accurately. I am guilty myself of having asked for advice for first aid (not on here), completley omitting to mention the involvement of warfarin for the person, a crucial difference.

We want to keep the site surely & the community which builds up within it, to do that we need to know limitations.

mini

MSE Martin

24-02-2005, 12:25 AM

Hi folks

Just read through this. My point isn't 'forums aren't for medical advice' more 'this forum isn't for this advice because i'm not willing to take responsbility for it'. The difference between this and debt is the forum is part of a wider site with articles about debt which i've written, so there's an in-built context, with health there's no corresponding articles to refer to - so I can't take responsibility for giving the info.

martin

Fran

24-02-2005, 12:31 AM

Perhaps it's something you could look into for the future, so that this wide group of people (with health problems) can moneysave in that area. Many people get into debt because of health problems which causes them to not be able to cope with their finances as well as a healthy person would, so the two things are closely entwined a lot of the time.

Glad

24-02-2005, 8:23 AM

Yes we do know who we are.

this is a perfect example of how someone can read a post and see a perfectly different meaning than the one the was posted,

I wrote 'However I know who I am, do you?' which in perfect english means 'do you know who I am?'
but queensway_boy read it totally differently and gave the above response,

if a simple sentence like that can be confused how easy would it be to have someone misread complicated advice being given out. :)

queensway_boy

24-02-2005, 8:40 AM

this is a perfect example of how someone can read a post and see a perfectly different meaning than the one the was posted,

I wrote 'However I know who I am, do you?' which in perfect english means 'do you know who I am?'
but queensway_boy read it totally differently and gave the above response,

if a simple sentence like that can be confused how easy would it be to have someone misread complicated advice being given out. :)

Then again you could of worded it wrong.

Judi

24-02-2005, 9:45 AM

Then again you could of worded it wrong or is that not possible.
I dont think she 'worded' it wrong, i think you misunderstood it.

Georgina

24-02-2005, 9:51 AM

Then again you could of worded it wrong or is that not possible.

I don't think it was worded incorrectly, but, a correct/true statement could be worded/quoted incorrectly, a bit like Chinese whispers.

queensway_boy

24-02-2005, 4:15 PM

I dont think she 'worded' it wrong, i think you misunderstood it.

Are you saying that ONLY the reader of a post can misunderstand the wording,because i'm saying the poster(any poster) can also word a phrase wrong,which is what i pointed out,which is what glads on about.Misinterpratation.

trafalgar

24-02-2005, 4:24 PM

Are you saying that ONLY the reader of a post can misunderstand the wording,because i'm saying the poster(any poster) can also word a phrase wrong,which is what i pointed out,which is what glads on about.Misinterpratation.

I read it as ,'I know who I am,do you know who you are' :)

queensway_boy

24-02-2005, 4:31 PM

I read it as ,'I know who I am,do you know who you are' :)

Well i did traf but some seem to have took that like a personal attack.

trafalgar

24-02-2005, 4:37 PM

Well i did traf but some seem to have took that like a personal attack.
I'm sure it wasn't meant as personal ,just another case of misunderstanding ..............it happens with the written word :)

Spendless

24-02-2005, 4:48 PM

To be honest I'm getting a bit lost with what i can and can't put.

Is this right

I posted in the past about son having chickenpox asking for ideas to entertain him whilst housebound.
Any posts made about ideas to entertain him were ok any posts made about buying lotion weren't.

I have also posted about daughter teething. I originally asked about a teething ring, any answers about where to buy one were ok cos i asked the question.
Any answers about different medicines to try weren't.

Is this right or have i got it all confused?

trafalgar

24-02-2005, 4:58 PM

Cat72

28-02-2005, 11:18 AM

"Many people get into debt because of health problems which causes them to not be able to cope with their finances as well as a healthy person would, so the two things are closely entwined a lot of the time."

I totally agree with this point, unfortunately through personal experiance. Especially when you are ill and unable to function well - you need support as well as finacial advice. Both go hand in hand.
And also the idea that a lot of people are becoming sick due to stress related illnesses , a lot caused by debt related issues. There is a very clear link, in my opinion, to health issues and debt worries.
Personal experiance from someone else means far more than a man looking it up in a book in Citzens advice ( although they do a great job! ).There can be far more knowledge to be gained from personal " been there done that- got caught out but sorted it " advice.
I only came to this site from becoming ill - having no money becuse of it, (having more time also) and NEEDING advice.I have had a lot of good help because of it.Long may it continue.

Catseyez

13-05-2005, 8:29 PM

I know I'm guilty of reesponding to threads with questions that don't relate to money saving at all.

But I have noticed that people are coming on here and starting threads that have nothing whatsoever to do with money saving. A lot of these posts seem to be very popluar and run into several pages. While I think it's great that people are offering their opinions/advice, it's always best to consult a qualified expert and not someone who has read one magazine article and 'become' and expert.

I've certainly noticed that the forum boards are quite slow to load sometimes (yes, I have broadband) and such non-money saving threads don't help. Why can't people search for medical sites that provides advice for sufferers? I'm referring to the "Thyroid post" in particular. I have an underactive thyroid myself and when I found out, I researched thyroid societies and found all the information I needed. That particular post seems to be too lengthy and, quite frankly, on the wrong website entirely!

Message to the moderator: is it not possible to lock such threads and stop them from growing to gargantuan proportions?

Edinburghlass

13-05-2005, 8:42 PM

I've certainly noticed that the forum boards are quite slow to load sometimes (yes, I have broadband) and such non-money saving threads don't help. Why can't people search for medical sites that provides advice for sufferers? I'm referring to the "Thyroid post" in particular. I have an underactive thyroid myself and when I found out, I researched thyroid societies and found all the information I needed. That particular post seems to be too lengthy and, quite frankly, on the wrong website entirely!

Message to the moderator: is it not possible to lock such threads and stop them from growing to gargantuan proportions?

Not sure why a Thyroid thread in particular with only 28 replies should be locked?

Catseyez

13-05-2005, 9:03 PM

Not sure why a Thyroid thread in particular with only 28 replies should be locked?

I can't see why people don't go to medical sites to get information about their conditions. Martin has asked that people stick to topics about "health money saving" so surely this isn't the place to discuss such matters.

And as for the 'croissant' post, why on earth are they asking money savers?!
I wouldn't use a forum on a medical site to ask questions about saving money. :confused:

The reason I mentioned the thyroid above others is because it's one of the more recent 'active' posts and when I was diagnosed I wouldn't have thought twice about seeking advice on this forum!

Catseyez

13-05-2005, 9:11 PM

PS: The thread I'm talking about is up to 48 posts, not 28.

Bossyboots

13-05-2005, 9:43 PM

[QUOTE=Catseyez]I know I'm guilty of reesponding to threads with questions that don't relate to money saving at all.

Why can't people search for medical sites that provides advice for sufferers? I'm referring to the "Thyroid post" in particular. I have an underactive thyroid myself and when I found out, I researched thyroid societies and found all the information I needed. That particular post seems to be too lengthy and, quite frankly, on the wrong website entirely!

[QUOTE]

Lucky you finding all the information you needed. I spent ages trawling websites looking for info on some tests I needed. I got the most helpful and accurate information from people here. I did not want medical advice, but an explanation of what to expect. That info meant that when I went to the hospital today I was less nervous than I would have been. There was a slight money saving aspect as I was trying to decide whether to go private but in fact the first appointment came through so fast it wasn't necessary.

I agree that medical advice should not be given on the boards. That is risky, even recommending calamine lotion which although usually innocuous could be recommended for the one person in however many that has an allergic reaction to it.

However, as the Health Board is here I see no reason not to allow members to swap experiences. Many of the posts in Marriage, Family etc. are not about money saving issues.

I only occasionally find the boards slow loading and frankly that is a small price to pay for the help I have received here, from two members in particular.

From my experience of other boards, you need to offer more community that just a particular topic. I now spend more time here than anywhere else. For me the balance is just right and the moderation superb.

Ted_Hutchinson

13-05-2005, 10:58 PM

While it is clearly the site policy not to use this forum to offer actual medical advice because questions are raised it seems only polite to direct the posters to sources of information which are available online or to provide examples of experiences relevant to the question which may be helpful but which aren't regarded as "medical advice" but simply the experience of some with a relevant experience.
In my view being able to set out the issues in print, see what help may be available and consider the experiences of others with similar problems can provide a sufficient level of knowledge to enable the reader to understand the problem more fully and thus be able to ask their medical adviser the right questions and understand the implications of the answers they are given.
In order to take full advantage of the NHS you have to understand what may be available in a particular circumstance and what may be needed. Discussing these problems in a NON-medical but health related forum may indeed prove useful and provide the knowledge necessary to utilise the NHS in the most cost effective manner.

Sofa_Sogood

13-05-2005, 11:12 PM

I can't see why people don't go to medical sites to get information about their conditions. Martin has asked that people stick to topics about "health money saving" so surely this isn't the place to discuss such matters.

Might seem strange but not everyone understands how to 'Google' for something. I didn't for long enough, and I'm certain a few others here won't either, so maybe if they only use one forum, this one, (as I do now), it seems like the obvious place to ask?

It's just an observation by the way. I'd never give advice about medical issues unless I was certain about what I was talking about.

Personally, I can't see how gambling is a money saving topic but it has it's own forum here? Which is good IMO, because at least people that do gamble have a place to ask questions of other gamblers.

In the short time I've been here the place has changed immensely, but I can't see a problem unless it's against the rules or bad advice is given without question. If nothing else, a health problem can be redirected somewhere else, better equipped etc, but at least redirected by people that use this forum?

SooTee

04-08-2005, 7:58 PM

Sorry to be taking this up late - seems to be so much to do & no time to surf! Reply is to Ted's first (4.40pm 22/2/05) message.
Have you heard of Bioflows? They are specific magnets (not your run of the mill shop ones) that help many people with problems such as arthritis, pain (all sorts) blood pressure (low & high), recovery from injuries, lack of energy, ME, MS, CFS, migraine, osteoporosis, circulation, skin disorders, etc. They enable the body to help itself. It might help you - worth trying?
Email me for info.

shrewdal

26-11-2005, 11:18 AM

Savvy_Sue

27-11-2005, 3:05 PM

Hi, I was a bit bewildered when my post for cold remedies was removed, now I ask you how can a wee bit of garlic or honey hurt anyone. vampires? :rotfl:

Seriously, it HAS to be a blanket ban IMO because otherwise where do you draw the line? I didn't see your post, and sometimes it's frustrating when a post is locked before someone's pointed to an obvious organisation which could offer help, advice and support. But those are the rules, and it helps if we all stick to them.

V Chic Chick

16-07-2006, 8:27 PM

Does this apply to animal health? I know I have saved myself and others a pretty penny by being able to give out diagnosis and the appropriate treatment for chickens, but on other boards.

I just spent £65 vets bills (including consultation, examination under general anaesthetic and antibiotics) on a £10 chicken which the vet says probably won't live more than a few weeks anyway :'( , but that was the first time I had set foot in a vet's in 18 months, due to knowing my stuff, and being able to treat it myself, often with the help of others on the other forum.

I am also accutely aware that chicken owners are often not prepared/cannot afford to take them to the vet, so forums are often the best way for their owners to give them treatment.

black-saturn

17-08-2006, 6:48 PM

Hi, I was a bit bewildered when my post for cold remedies was removed, now I ask you how can a wee bit of garlic or honey hurt anyone. I can appreciate if my post asked for help in trying to cure an infectious disease or some other serious ailment, I'm hardly going to request help from this website on something so serious anyway, but come on cold /flu remedies!!!
I was the person who asked for cold remedies. I was amazed it was removed when the advice was to have a hot bath and a hot drink. Thanks for that, I wouldnt have had a bath unless I'd read it on this board :rolleyes:

Agutka

17-08-2006, 7:30 PM

I was only looking on here for sympathy, not MSE, I know, but just wanted to find I was not alone. And I found someone who made me feel better. That thread is locked now, and any sympathy held within gone. I don't want to find a different forum for every aspect of my life, I like it here. Is it not possible to have a board, by special application only, where people must sign an agreement, where we can discuss our experiences?

Edinburghlass

17-08-2006, 7:48 PM

LizEstelle

08-10-2006, 8:15 PM

Maybe the current 'depression' thread might give you cause for concern.

Almost nothing there relates to money saving in any recognisable form. Most of it is fairly harmless 'mutual support' but some of it constitutes specific advice and counselling - this in an area which is recognised by the medical profession as a clinical condition.

Any warning bells ringing, by any chance..?

elona

08-10-2006, 8:40 PM

And how is calling someone a "drama queen" helping them? Which is only one of the rather hurtful comments that you made.

Martin also asked that we "be nice to other moneysavers".

Edinburghlass

08-10-2006, 8:57 PM

If the Depression thread is giving you cause for concern you should report the thread to abuse@moneysavingexpert.com.

However before doing so I recommend you read this post by Forum Manager. The Depression thread along with the Alcohol support thread is a kind consession by Martin to help MSE members with their problems in these areas and are both deliberately placed on the health board so they won't be targetted by users who might wish to cause offense on the threads. Should anyone feel that any medical advice is being given then of course those posts should be reported.

Hi

We've recently changed the name of this board to emphasise that this board is mainly for pure moneysaving issues on Marriages, Relationships & Families (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.html?f=24) and where possible we'd encourage regulars to keep posts on moneysaving where possible.

However, we are a community and a caring forum so we want to support everyone who comes here. Please be aware though that there are other boards to discuss non moneysaving issues and where possible we would appreciate they are kept on the correct board. I'd also like to remind people that this forum does not advocate specialist advice being given or requested; that isn't what we are about.

This isn't meant to be a hard and fast rule, but a gentle reminder to help us to help this site.

LizEstelle

09-10-2006, 10:15 AM

If I'd wanted to 'complain' I would already have done so.

As I said in one of my posts on the thread in question, it really doesn't worry me one way or the other. It's Martin's site and if he wants to entertain stuff which is irrelevant that's his affair, although I would point out that he's leaving himself open to similar threads being started on every medical condition where people feel they need cyber friends for mutual solace.

No, I just posted my concern here that he might, basically, be on dodgy legal grounds - I'm no expert on these things - unaware that he'd already sanctioned the thread.

That's fine. End of the matter as far as I'm concerned.

iglimpse

06-04-2007, 11:39 AM

Your advice re health topics is not working Martin. First visit to this particular forum in a while and already have seen some very dodgy & expensive advice given out, specific replies to health issues - exactly what you said you did not want here.

I feel the problem is that we all want to help people who are in a difficulty. Unfortunately, we all have different opinions and some more than others are convinced they are right.

My only advice is to look at the quackometer and bad science web sites - as well as NHS direct. My blood pressure won't take another visit here!!

dfwamb

07-04-2007, 12:45 AM

Tiff

07-04-2007, 1:18 PM

Hi, I've just read some of these posts as I was thinking of posting on this board as I think I am depressed and one of the big causes of my depression is the debt. However, I am not looking for people to 'cure' me - I just want some support and encouragement from other people who are suffering or have suffered and recovered from depression caused by debt. I'm a bit confused after reading some of these posts if this is the right board to get this support and if it isn't is there a board I could post to on the site for this kind of help and support?

Thanks

Hi dfwamb!:wave:
Being in debt is an extremely common factor in different kinds of depression. If you are already ill, it adds to your stress. It's very much a chicken and egg situation - which comes first?:confused:

May I say that you'd be very welcome both on the Depression thread and the DFW thread. You don't have to limit yourself at all angel.;) I've found MSE very friendly overall.

The only person who can diagnose depression is your gp hun. There are many online diagnosis tests that are inaccurate. It's always better to go to your own gp who is already familiar with your records. Your gp can source a variety of help for you and will be able to discuss your options with you hun. So the first thing to do angel is to book an appt with your dr.;)

I'm a regular on the Depression thread. The last thing anyone there will offer you is a cure. You may even be depressed - you may be extremely stressed, which is bad too. Also, those of us who have depression or any other kind of mental ill health, soon learn that it's a journey best taken with small steps. The thread is extremely supportive and friendly and the posters have a wide variety of experiences in relation to financial and mental health.

Imho, the Depression thread and DFW thread would both have things to offer you. I am, for example, aware of different benefits, and agencies, that can help not only someone's mental health, but also their financial one.

It's good to be cautious angel - mental ill health is a very
specialised field. We won't offer you a cure hun, but we will be supportive. I also think that the Benefits board would be another good idea for you angel.

You're more than welcome to dip your toes in on the Depression thread hun - if you find it's not for you sweetheart, you've not lost anything by trying it.;) Good luck angel - I hope you feel better soon.http://scriptureforums.org/images/smilies/hug.gif
Much Love,
Tiff xxx

Tiff

07-04-2007, 3:03 PM

Hi iglimpse!:wave:
I hope all is well with you and yours hun.
I'd like to reply to your post if I may angel.

quote=iglimpse;Your advice re health topics is not working Martin. First visit to this particular forum in a while and already have seen some very dodgy & expensive advice given out, specific replies to health issues - exactly what you said you did not want here.
I appreciate your point of view. As I've said, the Depression thread for example, is there by the good grace of MSE Martin. I concede that there are occasions where specific advice has been given out but I, for one, always try and remind people that we can't do that. Mental ill health is a specialised field and we are not professionals, no matter how extensive our experience.

I feel the problem is that we all want to help people who are in a difficulty. Unfortunately, we all have different opinions and some more than others are convinced they are right.
In reference to the Depression thread, it is commonly pointed out to anyone that mental ill health is a very individual thing and that no-one knows more about your health record than your own gp. That should always be someone's first port of call as they can make an accurate diagnosis and refer people to all kinds of resources.

This is a very specialised thread. For someone with mental ill health, it can easily mean that they are not aware of the help they can get, financially or otherwise. It is very hard to find help for people with mental ill health and imho, it's also very hard to get. People who have mental ill health can be easily forgotten, scammed or ignored when it comes to financial help and services. Sometimes your illness can take over your life and the thread is a good place to bring you down to earth and point you in the right direction.

It's extremely difficult to admit that you have got such a problem and can be very frightening.

To be able to come to a thread where there are people who know generally what help there is, who support you, who don't judge anyone and who have practical information of all kinds, is fantastic imho.

Mental ill health can be very intimidating to the person who has it and requires very sensitive handling. They are more likely to come to a specialised thread and trust the info there than on a general board, where someone can unwittingly make an insensitive remark.

As with the other threads, we are guilty of having a sense of humour. Not everyone on every thread sticks solely to financial information.

My only advice is to look at the quackometer and bad science web sites - as well as NHS direct. My blood pressure won't take another visit here!!
No offence meant iglimpse, but that's partly exactly the wrong kind of advice to voice. In fact, I'd never advise a certain website to anyone unless it is one of the tried and trusted mainstream charities (eg.MIND), that work to improve life for people who have mental ill health.
I'm sorry about your blood pressure hun and the good news is that you don't have to visit unless you want to.

Imho, the Depression thread is there to support and inform accurately on services that not only can improve their finances but also the other aspects of their lives too - housing etc. It takes an awful lot to open up angel and a lot of people with mental ill health are very prone and vulnerable to financial problems.

We know what agencies can help with your budgets etc and form-filling for financial help and the kinds of financial help there are that are so hard to find, specifically for people with mental health issues.

If you can encourage someone who has mental health issues to seek expert help for all their financial needs and services, you're giving that person a quality of life back...just as so many threads on the MSE site do. That's just my opinion hun. Wishing you well.
Much Love,
Tiff xxx

iglimpse

08-04-2007, 4:03 PM

[QUOTE=Tiff;4823038][COLOR=purple] No offence meant iglimpse, but that's partly exactly the wrong kind of advice to voice. In fact, I'd never advise a certain website to anyone unless it is one of the tried and trusted mainstream charities (eg.MIND), that work to improve life for people who have mental ill health. [QUOTE=Tiff]

I have not visited the depression forum. None of my comments referred to mental health issues and I totally agree that because people have had fantastic support from this site, they often seek advice e.g. on depression. I was referring to Martin's comments that people should not offer specific medical advice / treatments. It is very difficult for those that want to help when people are facing difficulties.

There are obvious correlations between debt and health, both physical and mental. That is why people ask for help on this site. I have seen suggested treatments here which are both expensive and unnecessary (i.e, the evidence is not proven, that is not just my opinion but scientific research).

This is not likely to help those already in debt. The NHS direct website I suggested only contains evidence and facts that have been researched and is a very trustworthy website, along the same lines as MIND.

The quacometer / quack watch and bad science sites are to help people save money. These web sites highlight various treatments for a whole variety of health problems and explain why they are unlikely to work. It was set up by professionals, fed up seeing people being ripped off when they are often already at their lowest ebb.

I echo your points regarding mental health and the problems recognising you might have a problem and getting help. I am only too well aware that access to services can be very difficult. It appears to me that you have a very good GP, however many people are not as fortunate and a small number (hopefully) of GP's fail to recognise or listen when mental health is deteriorating and are not supportive.

Therefore, my only note of caution to your response would be that people should not give up if the GP is unhelpful. It is not only the GP who can help. Many surgeries now have highly qualified nurses who also diagnose, treat and refer to other services, if any of these are required.

Tiff

09-04-2007, 11:48 AM

Hi iglimpse!:hello:
Thank you very much for your explanation hun. :T I apologise if I caused you any offence.

I was not aware of the quackometer or such sites, and thought it was a reference to the use of any resources. I guess this is a prime example of how things can be mis-interpretted in the unemotional language of computers.

I completely agree with you in that you should never give up if you are not satisfied with the response from your gp.:T

As I say, they are the gateway to a whole range of services for mental ill health. If you're unhappy, try and see another dr in the practice or take someone in with you for a second visit (or third!;) ) - having a witness can work wonders sometimes. It's also a good idea because if you are very poorly, the person can remind you of what the gp said/suggested and give you their opinion on how it all went.
Thanks again for clarifying things for me hun.
Much Love,
Tiff xxx