Speed Cameras to get camouflaged?

[LOST]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2045689,00.html

[Dead_Eye_Jones]

good good, always thought it was a good idea to have more and more covert speed cameras, tbh the only way people are going to take notice of their speed all the time is if people fear getting caught at any time. At the moment there is a clear message that speeding is fine, as long as there is no camera in that stretch of road.

I dont understand why people feel they have a right to speed? I hear the same old message, "but I know im in control" or "I know when its safe". Yeah funny thing is thats just what an old friend of mine used to say before losing control and killing himself and the parents of a 3 year old boy. Yeah you keep speeding and heaven help you when the worst happens. And it will.

Speed kills, and until people realise that, more cameras is the way forward. Dont like getting fined? Well dont speed! Its not rocket science. Personally I look forward to the introduction of tracking systems, an ott approach - I certainly agree, but seeing as the Clarksons of the world cant take the message on board any other way, then its the next step... if it saves the mother of my childrens life, then job done as far as im concerned.

[Murphy_The_Cat]

I dont understand why people feel they have a right to speed? I hear the same old message, "but I know im in control" or "I know when its safe". Yeah funny thing is thats just what an old friend of mine used to say before losing control and killing himself and the parents of a 3 year old boy. Yeah you keep speeding and heaven help you when the worst happens. And it will.

Speed kills, and until people realise that,

Why will it ?

Millions of people travel thousands upon thousands of miles every year without kinlling anyone, so why do you assert "and it wiil". Some folks will be involved in a fatal accident, but the vast, vast, vast, vast majority won't be.

and as for speed kills - no it doesn't. If it did there would be planes full of dead people flying around.
What kills is impact.

Back onto the topic.

Not for nothing are they known as Scameras.

MTC http://ofuabduction.com/images/alex/HissyClaw.gif http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e347/Murphy2006/MTCEnglish.gif

[Throbbe]

and as for speed kills - no it doesn't. If it did there would be planes full of dead people flying around.
What kills is impact.


Ah, but the momentum lost in the impact is dependent on speed ... ;)

I agree that equating speed alone to safety is a dangerous move, as it undermines the message that care should be taken at all times, and not just when there is a lower speed limit/enforcement camera.

However, that aside, if you don't want to get caught breaking the speed limit, there is a failsafe way of avoiding prosecution (and I don't expect much sympathy when I inevitably do get a ticket!).

[rdwarr]

If they are covert, then more will die, because everyone will be staring at the speedo, instead of looking where they are going. It is common sense.

That implies that people only care how fast they're going if there may be a speed camera about. It proves the earlier points that it is bad driving that kills. Speeding, braking hard when you see a camera or a police car and being drunk at the wheel are all examples of bad driving. Anything to get bad drivers off the road has to be a bonus for the rest of us.

[southernscouser]

I was nearly involved in a multi-car pileup, because the car at the front realised that he was about to go through a speed camera and slammed the brakes on. The people behind slammed theirs on and some swerved into my lane. None of us were speeding.., it was all caused by an overreaction to some white lines. Fortunately no-one made contact, but it was close.

I'm sorry but it was caused by a driver who clearly wasn't paying attention not the white lines. I'm always aware of what speed I'm doing, over the legal limit or not as should every other motorist! :confused:

[Murphy_The_Cat]

Ah, but the momentum lost in the impact is dependent on speed ... ;)

I agree that equating speed alone to safety is a dangerous move, as it undermines the message that care should be taken at all times, and not just when there is a lower speed limit/enforcement camera.

However, that aside, if you don't want to get caught breaking the speed limit, there is a failsafe way of avoiding prosecution (and I don't expect much sympathy when I inevitably do get a ticket!).

Absolutely spot on.

I enjoy a 15 mile drive to/from work each day on a combination of 30/40/50/60/70 dual carriageway roads in South Cumbria. I have been doing this drive for about 6 years now and I can confirm that on every single day, every single driver that I come across breaks the speed limit on that journey - and surprise, surprise, no death or carnage.

A little while ago, the people responsible for running the Scamerasfound a site where they could gather maximum revenue prevent fatal accidents and put up a Scamere on both carriageways (in fairness to them, there have been accidents on that road, but mostly drink, incompetence, stupidity related). Now I know that it's in a 60 mph zone, the guy in front does as well, so why does the pillock 5 cars in front of me perform a near emergency stop and pull his speed down to 35 mph ? & why do other half wits go through the same performance day after day ?
The end result is accident recovery heaven as the breakdown guys attend to the accidents that the Scameras have crated ? Which is great news for the Scamera operators as they can now point out how dangerous that piece of road is - but it's them that created the bloody hazard in the first place :mad:

I along with most motorists could lose my license EVERY single day if EVERY speed limit was enforced to the absolute letter & before another poster comes on here comparing me to Pol Pot, that is because I do monitor my speed very closely and I DO know that me speed is no 40 mph when I hit the 40 mph limot from the 50 mph and that as I'm leaving the 30mph, my speed is over that as I'm entering the 40 mph - but then again, every car behind me and every car in front of me is the same.

The biggest hazrad on the roads in my part of the world is old folk (that shouldn't be driving) (http://www.thisisthelakedistrict.co.uk/search/display.var.773239.0.coroner_seeks_tighter_health_ checks_for_old_drivers.php) misjudging the traffic and pulling out into the path of other cars and lorries and killing themselves and others - but getting this menace off the roads isn't as profitable as putting up Scameras is it ?:mad:

MTC http://ofuabduction.com/images/alex/HissyClaw.gif http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e347/Murphy2006/MTCEnglish.gif

[southernscouser]

Everybody speeds at some time or other... so everyone is a bad driver in your book. The amount of street furniture about, and constantly changing speed limits on a road mean that people inevitably spend more time looking at their speedo and speed limit signs than where they are going. This causes accidents.

The stats that try to justify speed cameras are misleading and simplistic. They don't look at the whole picture.

I'm assuming that was a reply to me! :confused:

Look I speed myself and have got 3 points. I'm not trying to claim I'm whiter than white.

But if you aren't aware of the speed you are doing you shouldn't be driving. It take half a second to every so often look at your speedometer or a road sign and if you have left a decent gap between you and the car in front there is no reason why you should hit them.

The idiots who slam their brakes on when they see a camera are reckless drivers as they have no idea of a) what the speed limit is on that stretch of road and b) what speed they are currently doing.

One thing about speed cameras is they show up how many crap drivers there are on the roads!

[southernscouser]

to do that, you must be constantly looking at the speedo, or have a very controlled foot..

No offence but yes I do have a steady foot as should all drivers. I'm not a foot to floor then slam on the brakes driver! :confused:

If someone isn't in full control of a car they shouldn't be driving! :confused:

[movieman]

good good, always thought it was a good idea to have more and more covert speed cameras

A speed camera that takes a picture of someone driving over the speed limit is a speed camera that's failed.

When speed cameras were introduced, we were told they'd only be used at accident blackspots where speeding resulted in a number of deaths or serious accidents. As such the cameras should be painted orange with flashing lights and surrounded by 'Speed camera ahead!' signs, to ensure that people slow down and that the camera prevents accidents: if a single driver is fined, then it's failed to do its job.

In reality, of course, they're just another way to screw money out of the law-abiding, which is precisely why the speed camera organisations want to hide them. The standard of driving on our roads is noticeably worse than it was in the pre-speed-camera era, and the safety record is no better: in fact there was a news report recently of a study showing that government figures are dramatically under-reporting the number of serious injuries on the roads when those figures are compared to hospital records.

What amazes me is that a policy can be so flawed and have failed so dismally over a decade or more, and people still demand more.

For the record, I have never had any points, so I am not the reckless driver type that usually moans about SC's because they have got hit in the pocket. I do find their existence a distraction from good driving however.

Ditto. I had a speeding ticket in 1991, which was probably deserved... not a single one since... however my driving has worsened significanly now I'm no longer allowed to drive at the safe speed for the conditions and have to spend more of my time staring at the speedometer or looking out for speed cameras than watching other road users.

[movieman]

But if you aren't aware of the speed you are doing you shouldn't be driving.

Nonsense: the numerical value of your speed is almost entirely irrelevant to driving safely. Someone who can judge the safe speed for the road and never looks at their speedo is far safer than someone who drives along making sure they're always 1mph under the speed limit.

[steve!]

I think some people are lumping people that break the speed limit in the same bracket as lunatics. I often go faster than the speed limit, and I've got 3 points in 4 years, but I still speed. The primary function of speed cameras is to slow people down. So why, if after being caught once, am I still speeding?

Completely ineffective.

[southernscouser]

Nonsense: the numerical value of your speed is almost entirely irrelevant to driving safely. Someone who can judge the safe speed for the road and never looks at their speedo is far safer than someone who drives along making sure they're always 1mph under the speed limit.

Just coz I say they should be aware of the speed they are driving at I don't at any point say that they are safer drivers than those who drive 1mph under the speed limit. :confused: Whats nonsense about that?

It was a reply to someone who slams their brakes on when they suddenly see a speed camera because they aren't aware of what speed they are doing! :confused:

[southernscouser]

I think some people are lumping people that break the speed limit in the same bracket as lunatics. I often go faster than the speed limit, and I've got 3 points in 4 years, but I still speed. The primary function of speed cameras is to slow people down. So why, if after being caught once, am I still speeding?

Completely ineffective.

Because you, like myself, take the risk. We can argue that speed limits aren't relevant to modern day but thats a totally different discussion.

At the end of the day, a speed limit is law. Break it, get caught, get punished.

[Murphy_The_Cat]

Just coz I say they should be aware of the speed they are driving at I don't at any point say that they are safer drivers than those who drive 1mph under the speed limit. :confused: Whats nonsense about that?

It was a reply to someone who slams their brakes on when they suddenly see a speed camera because they aren't aware of what speed they are doing! :confused:

or what the speed is for the road that they are on ??

also, if Scameras have to have a sign publiscising their prescence within (I think) 1/2 mile, why can't they have an applicable speed limit posted at the same time to advise drivers of what the limit actually is (usually obvious in rural areas, not always obvious in outer urban areas).

MTC http://ofuabduction.com/images/alex/HissyClaw.gif http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e347/Murphy2006/MTCEnglish.gif

[southernscouser]

or what the speed is for the road that they are on ??

also, if Scameras have to have a sign publiscising their prescence within (I think) 1/2 mile, why can't they have an applicable speed limit posted at the same time to advise drivers of what the limit actually is (usually obvious in rural areas, not always obvious in outer urban areas).

MTC http://ofuabduction.com/images/alex/HissyClaw.gif http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e347/Murphy2006/MTCEnglish.gif

Thats a very valid point and one I totally agree with! Your making it out to be my fault that it's not! :rotfl:

[southernscouser]

to do that, you must be constantly looking at the speedo, or have a very controlled foot.. A half of a millimetre of foot movement is the difference between speeding and not speeding, no-one can maintain that precision, not even my cruise control.

One extra glance at the speedo, when a kid walks out from behind a car is the difference between life and death.

You edited your post after I replied. Your right it does only take a small movement to take speed up. I don't deny that. But your point was that you nearly crashed because someone slammed their foot on the brakes when they saw a speed camera. Now clearly the difference in speed between his/her approach and getting there could be 20mph or more. This is a major difference to adjusting your speed by 1 or 2mph! :confused:

[Murphy_The_Cat]

Thats a very valid point and one I totally agree with! Your making it out to be my fault that it's not! :rotfl:

hi s s

no I didn't mean it that way. I meant it in a much broader, general context.

The posts are already there, the "scamera" sign is already there, so why not have a speed limit repaeter on there as well ?

MTC http://ofuabduction.com/images/alex/HissyClaw.gif http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e347/Murphy2006/MTCEnglish.gif

[xycom1]

Speed kills...

No, staring at your speedometer all the time to make sure that you don't go 1mph over the limit kills.

[geo555]

Speed cameras have NEVER stopped a drunk driver, have NEVER stopped a car being driven with no insurance or NEVER stopped an unroadworthy car.
Poor road engineering causes more deaths, but that doesn't produce any income.

[rdwarr]

Is everybody a bad driver sometimes in my book? Yes. I certainly am sometimes but I see a lot worse ;)
The point is, if there were fewer bad drivers there would be fewer accidents. And if those of us tempted into "badness" had good reason not to go there rather than driving in apocalyptic 9/8 time we'd be better off too.

[waster]

What is speeding? Exceeding an artificially created limit often set by officials solely to generate income? Or, exceeding a limit often set many years ago when the technology required you to throw a 5 ton weight from your car to stop it in less than 100 yards from 25mph? Or, doing 30 mph in a 30 mph limit in thick fog and/or driving rain. Or driving at 70 mph on a motorway on a bed of thickly packed and iced over snow. Or driving at 80 mph on a clear moonlight night a 2.00am on a near empty motorway? Or, driving at 30 mph in a 30 mph limit residential road as a large primary school is finishing for the day on a cold, misty, wet December afternoon. Or, ...........................

Need I go on? Speed in itself does not cause deaths, injuries or accidents. Inappropriate speed is the problem. And, as has been said many times before cameras cannot, and never will be, able to deal with inappropriate speed. They can only operate at a predefined artificially determined limit.

Whilst the original intention when allowing the installation of cameras was to prevent death and injury I defy anyone to now demonstrate that, in the main, they are anything but revenue generating cash cows for greedy authorities. Perhaps someone can explain why in many situations these cameras are installed at the same time as the speed limit is reduced on a stretch of road. Often without any justifiable or sustainable reason. I can show dozens of cameras that have been installed where accidents are supposed to have occurred due to speeding. Whilst I probaly could not say that speeding cars were involved in accidents, that is only part of the picture! Often the speed was as the result of the attitude of the driver who could not care if there was a camera there or not. So the camera is worthless in preventing the boy racer, uninsured, unregistered idiot driving at 50 mph in 30 mph during the rush hour. But it will get any motorist driving at say 35 mph at midnight on the same but clear and empty road. They will be hung by their own stupidity of registering their car and otherwise being lawful.

Inappropriate speed is the problem - the thing that experienced and dedicated police traffic officers use to deal with by using their discretion, knowledge, common sense by taking in to account, amongst other things, the prevailing conditions. Unfortunately we now live in the biggest big brother state in the world. Speed cameras are only one aspect of how you are monitored!! CCTV, debit/credit cards, Oyster cards in London, loyalty cards, using a PC. You are currently and will constantly have been tracked by all of them! Wake up and smell the coffee. We are all being exploited by the system under the guise that it is good for us. Really?

[gord115]

According to South Yorkshire police only 4% of serious accident are caused buy speeding, most are bad drivig.
Tailgating at the speed limit or talking on a mobile at the speed limit is much more dangerous than driving at 10mph above it with an alert driver and both hands on the wheel.