Diesel vs Petrol

[Tony H]

Due to an accident I was forced to change from a 1.8 Auto using £3120 of petrol per year. My fuel costs alone have been reduced by a massive £2080 per year as I have changed to a Diesel vehicle.

If you do more than 6000 miles per year you should be looking at a Diesel to make substancial savings.

box

[luci]

I have just changed back to diesel after having a petrol Primera 1.8 for the past 2 years. I'd always had diesel until then and have always loved it. The only downside is that parts are usually more expensive, but diesels are more reliable so this shouldn't be a big problem.

[tshrbhag]

I'm changing to Disel too. My C320 Merc does 27 mpg on motorways and 14 in city. The new one would do around 50 on motorway & 28 in city. Just can't wait to start that saving.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[foxylady]

The cheapest fuel for motoring is LPG or vegetable oil.
Buy a duel-fuel car or convert your own. Conversion
costs from £1600, this money saved in 1-2 years depending on milage. 40p per litre.




http://www.go-autogas.com/

[ohit]

Thing is, diesel cars generally do cost more.

If your buying 2nd hand though, it's easily justified anyway :)

Also, if one is a true driver and just loves driving, a petrol car is generally more fun to drive.

[tight_wad]

It's a no brainer if you have a company car.
The last petrol car I had was three years ago - Galaxy 2.3 - 27 mpg no matter how lightly you drove it. :(
Had Galaxy diesel's (130PS) since and they have averaged 46 mpg+ & on a steady run I have had 53 mpg + - amazing! :D

[MarkyMarkD]

Thing is, diesel cars generally do cost more.

If your buying 2nd hand though, it's easily justified anyway :)

Also, if one is a true driver and just loves driving, a petrol car is generally more fun to drive.

I think it depends on style of driving and what you call fun.

I'd far rather drive on a country road in a turbo-diesel and overtake people with the benefit of turbo boost whilst still getting lots of MPG, than have to change down 2 gears and use loads of revs (and fuel) to do the same far more slowly in a petrol car. But that's just my opinion! And I've actually got a petrol car at the moment because (a) it was cheap and (b) I do a low mileage (But I had 3 turbo-diesels before that). My wife's car's a diesel though and I am not lost to the diesel cause.

[aliasojo]

We have 2 cars, a small petrol and a family turbo diesel estate.

We get almost twice the mileage from the big diesel than we do the small petrol. ::)

When small car is up for change, it will deffo be another diesel we get to replace.

[solarstone]

...continuing on, why is Diesel about 6p a litre (in places) more than unleaded ?? Government don't miss a trick do they.

In France, Diesel is a fraction of the cost of petrol, why can't that be so here !?

[nearlyrich]

I have decided to go for diesel for my new company car. I get a set amount for mileage (11p) and I am sure I can get more miles out of a diesel engine and therefore my private miles will be less expensive. I am extensively testing the BMW 1 series this weekend followed by a couple of others I fancy. I was under the impresssion that the company car tax was going to be increased on diesels but it doesn't come in till Jan 2006 and it is only on newly registered cars after that date.

[JayS]

Unfortunately, this is one of the side-effects of diesel:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/medical_notes/233033.stm

"The most likely culprit are PM10s, microscopically small particles given off by diesel engines, coal burning, mining, construction and quarrying."

[robby-01]

Itried to get hold of a diesel 550 maranello a couple of years ago.Couldn't get one for love nor money.So I had to settle for the petrol version .Aint life cruel.

[andy88]

Unfortunately, this is one of the side-effects of diesel:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/medical_notes/233033.stm

"The most likely culprit are PM10s, microscopically small particles given off by diesel engines, coal burning, mining, construction and quarrying."To avoid misbalancing the argument for people who don't follow the link, you could have prefaced this:

A definitive cause for the lung abnormality at the root of asthma has so far eluded doctors.

However, Professor Duncan Geddes of the National Asthma Campaign says there are plenty of reasons why prevalence of the disease is increasing.

"There are simple ones - women who smoke during pregnancy are much more likely to have asthmatic children.

"It's also something to do with the way we're living in modern housing - little ventilation, damp housing, more carpets and more dust make asthma more common."

Exposure to illness in childhood could also play a role, he says.

"There are some curious things like the pattern of early childhood infections. It may be that in the past when all children had a lot of viral infections their bodies were defending themselves against infection.

"Now with fewer of them, their bodies are turning over to asthma instead."

Some scientists have linked the increase in asthma with an increase in air pollution. However, this theory is hotly disputedUnproved I think; nor is it certain that PM10s come mostly from diesel cars only. Tests in certain parts of USA only a few years ago discovered more than 50% of airborne pollution in urban areas came from fast-food establishments

[N9eav]

One thing to consider.. Diesel cars need servicing every 5-6000 miles where petrol can be 10-12000. Petrol is 28p a gallon cheaper than diesel in some garages. Saying that The extra MPG with a diesel seems worth the effort.

[nearlyrich]

One thing to consider.. Diesel cars need servicing every 5-6000 miles where petrol can be 10-12000. Petrol is 28p a gallon cheaper than diesel in some garages. Saying that The extra MPG with a diesel seems worth the effort.

Fortunately I get a company car and the lease covers the cost of maintenance but time is an issue so I will have to check that out when deciding what to have.

[MarkR]

I am well and truly converted to Diesal.
I had my last diesal for about 4 years and changed last year to another diesal. We also changed wifes car to a diesal last year. The mpg makes a big difference to amount we have to spend on fuel, although I must admit its worrying the way that diesal is getting more and more expensive than petrol, from being cheaper a few years ago.
The downside of diesal? well when start up from cold theres no mistaking its a diesal engine! and yes oil and filter is best changed every 5000 miles, theres the smellier fuel pumps too. The old arguments about performance are getting weaker with each new crop of diesal engines; I still prefer mpg to mph tho!
Positives are more mpg, longer lasting engines (over 150 000 miles on my last one with no signs of it ) . And in true money saving style the Great feeling its costing less to get from A to B than it would have in a petrol vehicle the same size or smaller.

[andy88]

more recent diesels have intervals of 12500 to 20000 miles. Mines in for £300 big service next week; 50000 miles so far, and all I've done so far is change the oil myself

[IvanOpinion]

I have just changed my main car and the shopping list was very short. It had to be a 5 door diesel that could do 0-60 in under 12 seconds and cost less than £11K. I am on my 4th diesel car simply because I do over 20K miles per year.

Overall the figures seem to show that diesel is actually a cleaner burning fuel than petrol with the exception of carbon particulates. My new car does however meet the new European standards for emissions - must have some form of carbon trap in the exhaust. CO2 emissions on my new car are about 125 whereas on my other (petrol) car they are about 165 (which is quite good for a petrol).

I think GB is going to have to consider his taxation policy on diesel since it is having an effect on inflation with many hauliers getting up in arms over the cost. We might see another strike over the cost of fuel ........

Ivan

[lellie]

One thing to consider.. Diesel cars need servicing every 5-6000 miles where petrol can be 10-12000. Petrol is 28p a gallon cheaper than diesel in some garages. Saying that The extra MPG with a diesel seems worth the effort.

my pug 307 diesel has a 12000 mile or 2 year servicing gap. i challenge you to find a petrol car with a 2 year servicing gap!!!

also, try driving a petrol up a hill, the diesel will kick its !!! any day, more torque!

[andy88]

Petrol is 28p a gallon cheaper than diesel in some garages.Wrong garages then; 2p a litre (9 a gallon) seems the biggest margin I've seen.

Ivan's got a point on the diesel price compared to other countries. But the difference is not so large any more. €0.95~1.10 = 67~77p. Some countries, petrol is more expensive than here, so if the hauliers start jumping up and down again, they don't deserve widespread support.

[JayS]

To avoid misbalancing the argument for people who don't follow the link, you could have prefaced this:

Unproved I think; nor is it certain that PM10s come mostly from diesel cars only. Tests in certain parts of USA only a few years ago discovered more than 50% of airborne pollution in urban areas came from fast-food establishments

Yes I could have quoted more from the link; however, as this thread was specifically about diesel vs petrol, I decided to only quote the relevant quote which, as you decided to omit, continues:



"The most likely culprit are PM10s, microscopically small particles given off by diesel engines, coal burning, mining, construction and quarrying. These particles can penetrate deep into the lung and are known to worsen existing heart or respiratory problems."

[MarkyMarkD]

Due to an accident I was forced to change from a 1.8 Auto using £3120 of petrol per year. My fuel costs alone have been reduced by a massive £2080 per year as I have changed to a Diesel vehicle.

If you do more than 6000 miles per year you should be looking at a Diesel to make substancial savings.Whilst I agree with the sentiment, your figures are rubbish. You are claiming to have reduced fuel costs by two thirds??? I don't think so.

[MarkyMarkD]

...continuing on, why is Diesel about 6p a litre (in places) more than unleaded ?? Government don't miss a trick do they.

In France, Diesel is a fraction of the cost of petrol, why can't that be so here !?The tax on unleaded petrol and ULSD is the same. It's not the government, in this instance.

[andy88]

Yes I could have quoted more from the link; however, as this thread was specifically about diesel vs petrol, I decided to only quote the relevant quote which, as you decided to omit, continues:Your quote taken out of context is highly distortive, implying certainty; whereas the rest of the article suggests that not enough is known to form authoritative opinion. PM10's are also produced by petrol-fuelled cars.

A few years ago, the opinions of a professor in a certain Midlands university were highly quoted to the effect that diesel was responsible for a high proportion of illness related to airborne pollution. The 'research' was paid for by companies that could hardly be seen to have impartial interest in the subject.

It is a good idea to debate the subject, but not with false or unsupported evidence.

[MarkyMarkD]

There is substantial evidence that whilst brand new diesel cars (and I'm exclusing those with particulate traps, which are very clean indeed) might pollute somewhat more than brand new petrol cars, the emissions from diesel cars remain at a similar level through their lives whilst those from petrol cars get progressively worse as the car ages. Poorly maintained petrol cars are particularly prone to high levels of emission - and of course many people only get this checked once a year when they have their MOT.

[andy88]

Also the emissions from a petrol fuelled car depend on the catalyst being warmed up, which takes a few miles. Apart from carbon dioxide, my diesel car makes less pollution on a 50 mile trip than a petrol car makes in the first 5 miles.

[skdotcom]

I'm looking to buy a secondhand Audi A4 avant (estate). I've been considering their 130bhp Turbo diesel, but it seems to command an extra £1000 over the equivalent Turbo petrol model. I can't see me saving any more than £500 a year in fuel, so I'm finding it hard to justify the added cost of a diesel.

[jjames]

It depends on what diesel you're talking about. Small cars with diesel engines I've never understood, they're horrible little things. Larger cars with better soundproofing etc can dull the negative aspects (noise, smell, vibration) of a diesel a lot better.

The main problem I have with diesels is I consider reliability to be of greater importance than cost savings as a private buyer, and therefore favour Japanese cars. The Japanese don't make very good diesel engines sadly.

[Cardew]

Due to an accident I was forced to change from a 1.8 Auto using £3120 of petrol per year. My fuel costs alone have been reduced by a massive £2080 per year as I have changed to a Diesel vehicle.

If you do more than 6000 miles per year you should be looking at a Diesel to make substancial savings.

Could you enlighten us on how you calculate those figures?

Most 1.8 Autos will do 25-30mpg or more overall. Even with diesel at the same price - which it isn't - you have a car doing 75-90mpg overall?

There have been plenty of studies on the potential savings of diesel over pertrol cars. Bearing in mind the higher cost of initial purchase, more expensive fuel, and(normally) higher servicing costs, conventional wisdom is that the break even point is 15-20,000 miles per year.

There is also evidence that repairs on the new high pressure common rail diesels are becoming a major expense for higher mileage cars. Replacement of the whole pump assembly at a cost exceeding £1,000.

Because we have to regularly put our hand into our pocket for cash or plastic to pay for fuel, we sometimes get a fixation about fuel costs.

If we take two 10,000 mile a year motorists, one with a petrol car averaging 35mpg and a diesel 50mpg(and the differential would generally be less than this for similar size cars) the diesel would save about £300 per year in fuel costs. Worth having, but small beer in the overall cost of running a car when you consider that depreciation alone can be measured in £thousands per year.

[Cardew]

I recently hired a four door Nissan Micra DCi from Hertz for a mix of motorway and mountain. Its a small car with a diesel engine, it was comfortable (I am 6'4") and it was quiet, it had good acceleration and was stable at high speed and it was not smelly where I sat! I did over 550km in it and when I got back to the airport I only had to put 20 Euros of diesel in it to get it up to the mark! (I already noticed the needle didn't move for the first 100km and that was the only fault I could find!).

Oh and its Japanese!

Japanese name granted; but made in Sunderland.

[andy88]

Japanese name granted; but made in Sunderland.and isn't the engine French?

[andy88]

But other Japanese cars have good Japanese engines despite being late into the fray - Honda, Toyota

[fatboyonadiet]

peterbarker petrolbusters closed a few months ago, Martin did make attempts to get hold of it but they wouldn't let it go!

Done some rough calculations and a diesel tends to pay for itself after three years if you do around 10/12k mileage a year, that's also assuming you get the same for it as a petrol when you sell when you do actually get more.

[sianypooh]

I bought a Picasso 2.0 HDI 12 months ago and it's the best thing i ever did. I get double the amount of miles than i got out of my old 1.4 Petrol. Also servicing intervals are longer for diesel. BELTINNN !!!

[vansboy]

Sianypooh, your Picasso will prefer more regular oil changes, now you've had it a year!& assuming you've done 10000 miles or so.

Please don't go with these extended service intervals, without an oil & filter change at least on each 5000 miles. & use semi synthetic diesel spec oil, too.

Your engine will then outlast the car!!

VB

[CossieMoJo]

I bought a second hand Golf TDI in 2000 and was disappointed that I didn't qualify for cheaper road tax. Got a longwinded response from the DOT - seemed to miss the point I was making that my car was at the time a current model so no more dirty than other cars it just wasn't new (and I was making better use of resources by re-using an existing car and not adding to the balance of payments deficit!!) I agree that the Govt's attitude is confused and rather mercenery.

Also, I live near the largest oil refinery in Europe and the diesel sold in the refinery petrol station is 88.9p (only 82.9p in Morrisons 20 miles away!) and 93.9p for their 'Ultimate' version (can you guess what oil company?). All the petrol and diesel comes from the same place - the oil company in question tip in barrels of additive to the actual petrol tankers (or at least used to). It does make you think twice about diesel

[MarkyMarkD]

I bought a second hand Golf TDI in 2000 and was disappointed that I didn't qualify for cheaper road tax. Got a longwinded response from the DOT - seemed to miss the point I was making that my car was at the time a current model so no more dirty than other cars it just wasn't new (and I was making better use of resources by re-using an existing car and not adding to the balance of payments deficit!!) I agree that the Govt's attitude is confused and rather mercenery.

Also, I live near the largest oil refinery in Europe and the diesel sold in the refinery petrol station is 88.9p (only 82.9p in Morrisons 20 miles away!) and 93.9p for their 'Ultimate' version (can you guess what oil company?). All the petrol and diesel comes from the same place - the oil company in question tip in barrels of additive to the actual petrol tankers (or at least used to). It does make you think twice about dieselI was hugely unimpressed with this when the GVED was brought in. There's no good reason for the simplistic approach taken on older cars - ancient banger under 1549cc which pollutes hugely = £105 and nearly-new car (mine) 1598cc which hardly pollutes = £160.

I understand that they couldn't come up with CO2 figures for all the ancient models on the road, but the figures were available for a large proportion of the nearly-new cars on the road, particularly those which were still current models. They took a lazy way out and penalised the less well off with slightly older cars - whilst clumsily benefitting some owners of polluting vehicles.

The subject of diesel/petrol price differentials surfaces all the time ... the accepted wisdom is that it's because there is higher demand for fuel oil (which is basically diesel without the additives) for central heating in the winter and hence the supply/demand balance pushes up the price of diesel. It almost always re-balances in the summer.

[crossleydd42]

Whilst we're on about fuel pricing, does anyone know a website which gives the local 'best-value' price of fuel, now that the AA's closed theirs down on their website recently.

[lompnaz]

...

In France, Diesel is a fraction of the cost of petrol, why can't that be so here !?

Would that it was! At my local supermarket, diesel is about 1 euro per litre, petrol about 10 centimes more. The differential is disappearing rapidly.

Note for holidaymakers - French supermarket diesel is not the same as that sold at garages. It lacks the additives of the more expensive diesel; I now use it rarely - the garage fuel gives me better consumtion and performance. Supermarket diesel has been linked to failure of engines using Common Rail injection systems (HDi, dCi, etc)

[willc01]

I travel about 40,000 mile a year, mostly motorway driving in a vectra 2.2 diesel. By cutting my speed down to around 65mph and allowing slightly longer for my journeys, I now get artound 55 miles to the gallon compared to before when i raced everywhere at about 40 MPG. Where does the extra money go, in MY pocket :T . They are far more effiecent in fuel consumption. Show me a similar sized petrol car that does the same. :j

The government haven't increased taxes on diesel any more than they have on petrol, it is the oil companies cottining on that there are more people buying diesel cars. :mad:

When I had my first diesel car some time ago diesel was 1p cheaper than petrol. Why? Becauyse the oil companys are greedy. It costs no more to produce than petrol does. Perhaps we should get :money: to knock on their door for us and badger the directors until they take action.

[IvanOpinion]

Willco01
My understanding is that diesel is actually cheaper to produce than petrol since it is less refined (I could be wrong here though). Also the government did slap additional duty onto diesel a few years ago.


As far as servicing a car more often than the handbook says it is not necessary. Modern oils (especially synthetic oils) last much longer than the service interval. I believe that service intervals are deliberately kept low to offer a source of revenue for garages and dealers and are, in the main unnecessary. As a poor student I had one car that I clocked up over 50K miles on without a single service and it never gave me a day of trouble (the only thing I did was replace the front brake pads .. once). I also remember reading about some car that had a service interval of 100K (possibly the Cadillac Seville?).

Ivan

[andy88]

diesel is 2p a litre more around here, as previously mentioned
82.9 v 80.9

[antonio]

I've been driving diesels for the past ten years now and despite the slightly extra noise, would be very reluctant to go back to petrol, especially as I've now perfected the refinement process of recycling my old chip pan oil. Gordon eat your heart out!
Antonio.

[Tony H]

My original posting has been questioned, I will say this:

I have not included anything other than fuel expenses eg the old 1.8 auto was costing £55.00 - £60.00 per week where as the diesel is a more stable £20.00.

As for running costs, I have just replaced the clutch (What's one of those!!) at a cost of £325.00 ...o0(ouch!!) & cambelt £107.00, but servicing cost's are about equal, certainly not substantially more than I was paying. I think the important thing to consider that most of my driving is done locally and I very rarely get onto faster roads.

[scchin]

has anyone tried the electric car? only does a max of 40 miles/hr but only costs 1p/mile! or so they claim. anyone had any experiences? we are thinking of getting one!

[andy88]

I've been driving diesels for the past ten years now and despite the slightly extra noise, would be very reluctant to go back to petrol, especially as I've now perfected the refinement process of recycling my old chip pan oil. Gordon eat your heart out!
Antonio.You still have to pay duty on home-made biodiesel at about 28 or 30p per litre, 20p less than normal diesel. But still, it's costing you about half-price.

[moneymonkey]

Where are you Andy? Sounds like you probably have some of the cheapest diesel around. I just drove from London to Norwich and back looking for the cheapest. I didn't buy any. The Unleaded/Diesel comparisons I spotted were: Asda East London 81.9/86.9, Tesco East London 81.9/85.9, Sainsburys East London 81.9/86.9, BP A14 Newmarket 87.9/90.9, Sainsburys Thetford 84.9/87.9, Texaco Thetford 85.9/88.9(northbound AND southbound same price today!), Sainsburys Norwich 81.9/85.9.

I can report these figures about once every two weeks. Does anyone else fancy reporting some figures regularly? Maybe we can start a cartel-busting thread!

We are witnessing a rip-off right now on two counts:
1. Holding the overall average petrol and diesel prices artificially high whilst there is still uncertainty in peoples' minds about what happened in the budget that may have affected the prices (does anyone know?), and
2. Holding a major differential between petrol and diesel for long enough for it possibly to stick so that the oil companies can capitalise on the huge turn to use of diesel in private cars which has no doubt has begun to reduce the overall volumes they sell per motorist.

I think what we are seeing is cartel behaviour and I completely fail to understand why it is tolerated.

Maybe if you make something expensive then people will use less of it? If petrol was really cheap like in the US then we'd still be driving huge great gas guzzling monsters like they do.

People are now turning to diesel to use less fuel, as the price continues to rise (and it will) we'll start to look further and there will be genuine momentum to find a new power source for cars.

So maybe it's a good thing in the long term?

[breeze]

There really is no debate. It is not Petrol vs Diesel, do yourselves a favour and buy LPG. I pay on average 38p a litre and get 40mpg on a journey. You people can do the maths. Some morrisons stores sell as low as 29p a litre (Bristol) and give 2p off a litre in store vouchers!! Beat that! :j

[Tony H]

Everytime I have enquired about LPG I am told that it's 45% less effecient than petrol regards MPG. So I jump to the conclusion that the overall saving is only in the region of 5-10% and that before you've paid for the conversion. Have I been mis-informed?

[andy88]

Everytime I have enquired about LPG I am told that it's 45% less effecient than petrol regards MPG. So I jump to the conclusion that the overall saving is only in the region of 5-10% and that before you've paid for the conversion. Have I been mis-informed?Tony I think it is more efficient in cost not mpg than petrol. The cost comparison to diesel is more marginal, and I suspect that is the 5% you are remembering.

Also, gas conversions in this country are ludicrously overpriced, buoyed in most cases by misguided subsidies. A typical cost is £1600 I believe, which buys about £250 or £300 of hardware and a few hours work. Anyone thinking about this sort of job would do well to plan it into a trip abroad. A friend nearly had the old Audi converted in Lithuania; it would have been typically about £250, but there were technical complications for that particular model. I believe the price in Netherlands or Belgium might be £500 to £600, but I'm not up to date.

[MarkyMarkD]

LPG is only better value because of tax subsidies. All the data I've seen suggests that LPG vehicles have slightly worse performance and slightly worse MPG than the equivalent petrol fuelled car.

You also lose some space in your boot typically by having an LPG conversion - so an LPG car and a petrol/diesel equivalent are not strictly equivalent for several reasons.

[Micky342]

One thing to consider.. Diesel cars need servicing every 5-6000 miles where petrol can be 10-12000. Petrol is 28p a gallon cheaper than diesel in some garages. Saying that The extra MPG with a diesel seems worth the effort.


Sorry to disagree. My Golf TDI 150 diesel was first serviced at 15000 miles. Modern oils increase service intervals. Next service came after a further 9000 miles.

[IvanOpinion]

I agree with Mickey. My last dieasel, a Rover 220 TD, had a service interval of 12K miles (with a useful 84K for timing belts). My current diesel (bought in Feb), a Mitsubishi Colt 1.5 DiD, also has a service interval of 12K (and sounds nothing like a diesel, several people I have given a lift to would not believe I was driving a diesel).

My first diesel, a Ford Orion 1.6, non-turbo, wouldn't pull the skin off a custard, but regularly returned 70+ mpg was only serviced once from I got it with 24K on it until I sold it with 82K on it ... that was sinmply me being tightfisted.

As I posted before, I believe the low service intervals relate more towards garages earning revenue than to necessity ... maybe someone in the trade could clarify.

Ivan

[Squeeksqueek]

[QUOTE=foxylady]The cheapest fuel for motoring is LPG or vegetable oil.
Buy a duel-fuel car or convert your own. Conversion
costs from £1600, this money saved in 1-2 years depending on milage. 40p per litre.




In the above quote there is a mention of vegetable oil, no one has picked up on it.

I know about this because I was the first person to register to make alternative fuels in Manchester. Take 40 litres of waste cooking oil from the local cafe, add 2 litres of solvent (diesel turpintine etc) and leave to settle for a week and then decant into a fresh container, start next 40 litres of waste so you have a production line going. After second week decant modified waste cooking oil out of container through a J cloth filter and add to your tank. Hey presto free fuel. After four weeks you have 160 litres of fossil free fuel that you need to pay tax on at approx 28p per litre is £44.80 over £140.80 for diesel at Tesco. £96 times 12 is £1152.00 a year saving and all it takes is 30 mins a week and a £100 modification to your diesel car.

Want to know more www.bio-power.co.uk

There is no charge for the basic knowledge as this organization exist to replace fossil fuels.

[andy88]

This solvent-based method sounds even more simple than trans-esterification, but what can you tell us about the fuel quality - lubricity, etc and long-term effects on the engine, injectors, etc - doesn't it gunge them up?

[foxylady]

has anyone tried the electric car? only does a max of 40 miles/hr but only costs 1p/mile! or so they claim. anyone had any experiences? we are thinking of getting one!
Do you mean an electric car or a hybrid. Get a hybrid (duel-fuelled) and then you have no restrictions on distance

[foxylady]

Everytime I have enquired about LPG I am told that it's 45% less effecient than petrol regards MPG. So I jump to the conclusion that the overall saving is only in the region of 5-10% and that before you've paid for the conversion. Have I been mis-informed?
Yes you are mis informed! My converted Zafira does exactly the same mpg on LPG as on petrol. This only gets slightly less efficient as the engine ages.
http://www.greenfuel.org.uk/
for more info

[MarkyMarkD]

Foxy, are you stating that based on greenfuel's (doubtless biased) propaganda, or your own MPG recording?

[Squeeksqueek]

Fortunately I get a company car and the lease covers the cost of maintenance but time is an issue so I will have to check that out when deciding what to have.

If you research the latest diesel cars you will find VW engined cars run on full synthetic oil will run up to 30,000 miles between services, can anyone tell me of a petrol engined car that will do this.

[andy88]

LPG has slightly less calorific value (energy content) than petrol, so higher consumption would be expected

[Poppy9]

I bought a Picasso 2.0 HDI 12 months ago and it's the best thing i ever did. I get double the amount of miles than i got out of my old 1.4 Petrol. Also servicing intervals are longer for diesel. BELTINNN !!!

Also don't trust the onboard computer telling you how many MPG you are getting. Family member did some maths and proved it wrong. Citreon dealer bought the brand new car back off him no problem when he pointed it out.


As an aside I drive a small petrol car and my oh a xantia 1.9tdi. His smells and is noisy mine isn't:D Neither of us do a huge amount of mileage so as he is changing his car soon he is going for a petrol car.

[MarkyMarkD]

The issue of smell is a matter of taste - the "rotten eggs" smell of a catalysed petrol car is, IMHO, far more unpleasant than the smell of a diesel car. This does vary by car significantly though - some petrol cars aren't very smelly at all; some are absolutely awful. I had a brand new Vectra petrol which smelt abysmal for its first few years, and then improved slightly; my current Laguna petrol smells fine as (to my nose) does my wife's AX diesel.

[andy88]

If you used bio-diesel, you could have the nice smell of chip-shop.

[feltonblue]

On the LPG debate...
I had my car (Renault Laguna 1.8) converted last year, at a cost of £1800. It is true that you lose more MPG than the promoters of LPG like to let on, but I'll still recoup the cost within 30,000 miles which is one year's motoring for me. My previous MPG was around 35-37, and on gas I'm down to 28-30mpg. However, with gas available everywhere for less than 40p, and from Asda and Morrisons for 29.9p it's still well worth it. The other point that no-one seems to have mentioned is that it is more environmentally friendly, which is why it has the current favourable tax treatment. Lots of local and national government vehicles have been converted, and the low tax level was frozen again in the last budget for the next three years.

[MarkyMarkD]

The "environmentally friendly" claim is a slightly suspect one. LPG is still a scarce, non-renewable, resource, the same as petrol or diesel. It's cheaper to use because the tax is lower - not for any other reason. It's basically a less efficient fuel than diesel.

The only really environmentally friendly fuel for cars would be electric power, generated from nuclear power which, whilst not renewable, is pretty much limitless in the context of current usage levels.

[andy88]

I agree that LPG has little environmental advantage, but people who are interested in having the car converted should consider having it done abroad as the UK seems to have ludicrous over-pricing. You could have a family holiday at the same time from the savings.

[Robert5988]

I agree that LPG has little environmental advantage, but people who are interested in having the car converted should consider having it done abroad as the UK seems to have ludicrous over-pricing. You could have a family holiday at the same time from the savings.

Don't the Ferry and tunnel companies ban LPG cars?

[carl310166]

Don't the Ferry and tunnel companies ban LPG cars?

Eurotunnel deffinately does.

[feltonblue]

The "environmentally friendly" claim is a slightly suspect one. LPG is still a scarce, non-renewable, resource, the same as petrol or diesel. It's cheaper to use because the tax is lower - not for any other reason. It's basically a less efficient fuel than diesel.

The only really environmentally friendly fuel for cars would be electric power, generated from nuclear power which, whilst not renewable, is pretty much limitless in the context of current usage levels.
I agree that the fuel is non-renewable, and not as efficient as petrol or diesel, but until electric powered cars are widely available and nore practical, LPG does have the advantage of producing far fewer pollutants than petrol or diesel, and so combined with the current tax savings it makes good sense to use it for now.

[andy88]

, LPG does have the advantage of producing far fewer pollutants than petrol or diesel, LPG fuel consumption and consequent emission of CO2 are almost twice as high as diesel. If LPG cars were taxed similar to all other ones, on CO2 emissions, then they would be the most highly rated.

[Phil_rich]

Did no one see Fifth gear last night? They did a comparison of driving two cars of the same spec but one deisel and one petrol and they calculated that if you did an average of 12000 miles per year you would save £150 per year on your fuel bill.

[MarkyMarkD]

I haven't seen that programme yet (although my wife probably video'd it for me) but I have to suspect that their figures are under-stating the diesel cost savings.

E.g.

12,000 @ 50 mpg = 240 gallons @ £4.04 = £970

12,000 @ 40 mpg = 300 gallons @ £3.86 = £1,158

So that's at least £188 even taking account of a 4p price differential per litre (about the difference around here at the moment) and assuming exceptionally good petrol mpg.

I'd be interested to see what they call "same spec" as well - often comparisons are of same-sized engines, or same powered engines, ignoring the different way the power is delivered.

[gravitytolls]

I love my diesel engine - and the miles and miles of good value it gives me

[andy88]

I haven't seen that programme yet (although my wife probably video'd it for me) but I have to suspect that their figures are under-stating the diesel cost savings.I agree. I reckon diesel saves about 3 pence per mile on fuel; abroad it averages over 4p.

[fatboyonadiet]

I've worked it out and doing 10,000 miles a year it takes about 3 years for a deisel car to pay back for itself, but that's not taking into account the fact that it will be worth slightly more when you sell it

[MarkyMarkD]

My figures take account of a 4p differential, so I expect that theirs took account of at least this much.

[fredy34]

Ive been looking at changing to diesel. I have to say i have been less than impressed with the savings that are now available.

If you look at vw golfs for example. The price of a decent diesel is astronomical. You will pay £10000 for a 2002 130bhp diesel engine (with probably 75k on the clock) versus £7000 for a 150bhp petrol engine (with 40k on the clock).

These 2 cars have similar performance (i know ive driven many miles in both and currently own the petrol one)

Its going to take some milage to save this money back!

why has the price of diesel gone up by more than petrol?

[Highland_Lass]

We have changed in the last 2 months to diesel after always having petrol. Wish we'd done it years ago. Before changing we had a Renault Laguna - averaging 32 mpg and now have a Renault Megane - averaging 60 mpg. Also saved on the road tax cos it was only £85 (I think) for the year.

[Poppy9]

We have changed in the last 2 months to diesel after always having petrol

Make sure you don't put petrol in the car though as my friend did last week. A full tank worth!:eek:

[Highland_Lass]

I have to keep reminding myself it's diesel and not petrol.

[monkfish]

change the oil and filter reguarly on a diesel and your fine, my audi a4 has done quarter of a million miles no probs

and for performance and mpg look no futher than a skoda fabia vrs (diesel) awesome car, more torque than porsche boxter

[steve!]

I'm down with the diesel thing, but I'm wary of them. When I first moved away from home I was all into saving money so I was well pleased with a Citroën ZX diesel because it never seemed to run out of fuel. Sadly it was soooooooo slow, and being a baby (I'm 22) I started to hate it. I think it pretty much ruined a relationship because I knew that in order to see the girl I was seeing I would have to drive it. The nookie just wasn't worth driving my granddadmobile for 10 minutes!

Now I have a Corrado I tend to drive anywhere (funny that), and I can't be arsed with diesels anymore because the savings don't add up to me (I do ~3,000 miles a year). Although I have to say an Alfa GT/156/159 with a diesel engine could pull me away from petrol if I'm not careful. When I'm a millionaire, maybe.

[Chris_VRS]

diesel over petrol for me everytime!

[tomstickland]

Re long service intervals. There's nothing clever about them at all.
Best advice out there is to change the oil more frequently than recommended. It doesn't matter how advanced the oil is, it will fill up with partially combusted particles and this then turns into a grinding paste that causes engine wear. High mileage engines with regular oil changes have less wear than low mileage engines run on old oil.

Economy wise there is a reasonable argument for Diesel.

Performance wise, the outright acceleration performance only depends on power to weight ratio. Peak torque figure doesn't make any difference, except for delivery style. I'm not making this up, I've spent many hours looking into the physics of it. Diesel owners are always going on about the torque output of their engines.

Due to an accident I was forced to change from a 1.8 Auto using £3120 of petrol per year. My fuel costs alone have been reduced by a massive £2080 per year as I have changed to a Diesel vehicle.
You've saved 2/3 by going to Diesel. I doubt that that's due to fuel change alone. Auto boxes are inefficient; it also depends on vehicle size, weight and condition.

[roswell]

Just to clear up some strange beliefs about diesel.

Using Veg oil is illegal expect a £500 on ths spot fine unless your registered with H&M Customs and excise.

Service is between 10000 miles and 20000. mines had 3 services its one 50 000 i challenge a petrol car to do that.

to me the less trips to the petrol stations sold me on the economy and driven very carefully you can get miles and miles and miles out of one tank.

The other thing with a TD is put your foot down and you still get good miles to gallon ratio :-) Sold

[tomstickland]

Service is between 10000 miles and 20000. mines had 3 services its one 50 000 i challenge a petrol car to do that.
I don't see any reason why a petrol engine requires more servicing than a diesel. I'm DIY anyway so I don't care.
The retention of mpg even with right foot down is a very good argument for Diesel.

[IvanOpinion]

Service is between 10000 miles and 20000. mines had 3 services its one 50 000 i challenge a petrol car to do that. I may be a diesel devotee but most modern engines with modern oils seem to cope OK with being abused. I got my old Montego petrol with 24K on the clock and sold it several years later with 84K on the clock (I think) and it only got serviced once (just before I sold it) ... never gave me a days problem.

Ivan

[tomstickland]

That really is awful! Just goes to show why low mileage is meaningless.

[speedtwin]

ive got a 406 diesel and use to do about 35miles a day, i have now changed job and work 1 mile from home. would it be better to change to petrol or is it just as bad for a diesel as petrol for short distance driving?

[steve!]

1 mile? You should walk.

[speedtwin]

Yeah I Know Should But I`m A Letting Agent But I Have To Go To Bank Once A Day And View Houses Sometimes (all In A 3 Miles Radius)

[Jorgan]

Diesels are usually better for shortertrips, start/stop driving, on of the reasons the taxi boys use them.

You need to look at the whole picture before deciding whether to change. Servicing costs may be more expensive on a diesel than a comaprative diesel to petrol engined vehicle. Purchase price of petrol cars tend to be lower than their equivilant diesel model.

A friend of mine was selling a BMW X5 3.0 petrol recently, had loads of people turn up to view, all liked it but were put off by the fuel consumption. He was having a whine about being left with a lemon he couldn't sell, did a quick check on a comparable 3.0d and they were about £3000 more expensive. Pointed out to my mate that at the moment that buys 3000 litres of petrol, he used this with the viewer & they bought the car, once they worked out they would take about 4 years to use this amount of fuel.

[tomstickland]

I've just come back from the South of France as a passenger in my friend's Peugot 406 Estate. It's a 2.0 D and he was averaging 82mph and 38mpg. Not that good IMO, my 1990 1.8 16v BMW 3 series would do about 35mpg under the same conditions I reckon - I manage 33mpg driving it really hard and 38mpg on a long trip. It makes me wonder whether the wonder figures people claim for Diesels are as good as they think.

[pinkfluffybabe]

[QUOTE=lellie]my pug 307 diesel has a 12000 mile or 2 year servicing gap. i challenge you to find a petrol car with a 2 year servicing gap!!!
QUOTE]

My petrol Renault Clio has an 18,000m or 2 year service interval

[tomstickland]

Long service gap is not clever at all. They just extend the gap to make it seem good to the customer, but the long term outlook for the engine life is worse.

[IvanOpinion]

One reason I like my diesel (I have both a diesel and a petrol) is that it is much more relaxing to drive. If you are sitting on the road and want to overtake then you simply put the foot down ... with a petrol you general have to knock her down one or two gears to get any power.

Ivan

[tomstickland]

Horses for courses, that's why I like the petrol. Revving good fun.

[skdotcom]

[QUOTE=lellie]my pug 307 diesel has a 12000 mile or 2 year servicing gap. i challenge you to find a petrol car with a 2 year servicing gap!!!
QUOTE]

My petrol Renault Clio has an 18,000m or 2 year service interval

Same here for my MINI Cooper S, 18k or 2 years, though you'd be stupid to let any car run that far without at least an oil service.

I also have have a BMW 320d Touring. Good fuel economy, but boy is it slow. I average 40mpg, which is better than the 22mpg in the MINI!

[tomstickland]

Slow in accelerating maybe, but momentum conservation is fun.

[carl310166]

I've just come back from the South of France as a passenger in my friend's Peugot 406 Estate. It's a 2.0 D and he was averaging 82mph and 38mpg. Not that good IMO, my 1990 1.8 16v BMW 3 series would do about 35mpg under the same conditions I reckon - I manage 33mpg driving it really hard and 38mpg on a long trip. It makes me wonder whether the wonder figures people claim for Diesels are as good as they think.

I am off to do the same trip tomorrow, when i did it last year, cruise set to 80mph.......54mpg in Golf gt dti, it is down hill all the way though isn't it ??? and if i fully vent, i can get at least 650 miles to a tank, i reckon if i set it to 60mph and took it real easy i could get near to 800 miles.

Al the above are the obc figures, so even taking that into account, it's still very good in anybody's books.

[Alt]

I've just come back from the South of France as a passenger in my friend's Peugot 406 Estate. It's a 2.0 D and he was averaging 82mph and 38mpg. Not that good IMO, my 1990 1.8 16v BMW 3 series would do about 35mpg under the same conditions I reckon - I manage 33mpg driving it really hard and 38mpg on a long trip. It makes me wonder whether the wonder figures people claim for Diesels are as good as they think.
Traveled through France and Germany in June(For the Worldcup), Mondeo TDCI, 4 adults, Boot bursting plus more luggage on the back seat, France cruise at 80mph, Germany anything upto 115mph (only where legal!), aircon on permanently. Manual (real) calculation over 2000 miles of travel was 47mpg. I would call that good.

[carl310166]

Horses for courses, that's why I like the petrol. Revving good fun.

Luckily i have the best of both worlds, A TDI for getting around, but when i want a bit of fun, i have a Kawasaki ZX6R....120bhp and a 15k rev limit

[Murphy_The_Cat]

I've not owned a petrol powered car for 7 years and not missed it for a minute.http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/happy/962.gif

MTC http://ofuabduction.com/images/alex/HissyClaw.gif http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e347/Murphy2006/MTCEnglish.gif

[CMcc]

Alot of people like diesels, not only because they provide (be it what ever way, tax or fuel) a saving of some sort, but due to the torque they produce it 'feels' like you are going fast.

One thing that makes me laugh though is when you get someone in a 2 litre turbo diesel arguing that their car is quicker than say... a BMW 325i because 'its a turbo' and because of how the torque makes you feel inside the car :D

It all boils down to individual preference. Those who do more than 30,000 miles a year will no doubt see some kind of significant saving due to the sheer amount of money their putting away into their fuel tank, petrol or diesel.

Those doing 12,000 or less though, the gains will be much smaller.

Me, i prefer petrol cars even though i have a small saxo diesel run about at the moment, i will be buying another german petrol car soon :>

[Murphy_The_Cat]

It all boils down to individual preference. Those who do more than 30,000 miles a year will no doubt see some kind of significant saving due to the sheer amount of money their putting away into their fuel tank, petrol or diesel.

Those doing 12,000 or less though, the gains will be much smaller.



just a small (but important) point. If you do your research before buying and find a manufacturer who sells his diesel cars for the same price (or very similar) to a petrol car, you are likely to gain 3 times over.

Much better consumption.
Cheaper servicing.
Much better trade in value.

Of the 3, the last one would/could be the biggest winner of all.

MTC

[Murphy_The_Cat]

It all boils down to individual preference. Those who do more than 30,000 miles a year will no doubt see some kind of significant saving due to the sheer amount of money their putting away into their fuel tank, petrol or diesel.

Those doing 12,000 or less though, the gains will be much smaller.



just a small (but important) point. If you do your research before buying and find a manufacturer who sells his diesel cars for the same price (or very similar) to a petrol car, you are likely to gain 3 times over.

Much better consumption.
Cheaper servicing.
Much better trade in value.

Of the 3, the last one would/could be the biggest winner of all.

MTC

[AMO]

I went for a diesel this time around and I have no regrets (Citroen C4 2.0L Coupe).

I paid an extra £2K for the diesel version and worked out that you need to make around £2Ks worth of savings to offset the cost of a diesel. This will depend on the make and model you buy I guess.

Certainly I think that the diesel is worth it.

Most people have mentioned:
1) Cost if you do high mileage.
2) Servicing (I do 20K miles or more per year. Many petrols have a 10K-14K servicing interval, my diesel has a 20K interval meaning I only have to go about once per year).
3) Higher resell value. I agree with this to an extent. This can be argued with point 2). Diesels do not rev as high as petrols and therefore have lasted longer than their petrol counterparts. Therefore this forms part of the reason why diesels maintain their value. The other reason is supply and demand. Relatively few diesels are available for the second hand market, primarily because diesel owners take longer before selling their car on as they have to make the initial investment back but also because they know the car will last longer. But if this changes in the future, e.g. company cars being released such that more diesels are available, the additional value that diesels bring might change in the future.

But one big reason why I went for a diesel is that with a petrol I have to fillup at the petrol station on average once every 4 working days. With a diesel, that goes up to once every 6 working days. :D For some reason, I hate filling up - its just too much hassle.

But also, there's the cost efficiency of the fuel when using other facilities in the car such as incar demisting and air conditioning. You get better value through diesels.

One thing to look out for for the next 20 years as tax gradually moves from petrol and car tax to distance-based taxing where the benefits are not so great.

Someone also mentioned duel-fuel with LPG. This is all very good so long as you can fill up in enough places. The other thing is the extra weight and the space used by the second tank making the cost of the journey more than you think.

Other countries seem to be going towards what Brazil used to use - sugar-case alcohol:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4581955.stm

But supposedly thats not feasible in the U.K. :confused:

Anyway, I think that a diesel is well worth the investment, especially if you are buying a top of the range new car! :D

AMO

[IvanOpinion]

Maybe already mentioned but to add another reason to Mutphys list
4) driving experience

Since a od diesel engine has so much torque there is none of this rattling aorund the gear box looking for a suitable gear like you have in a petrol engine. I drive a lowly 1500cc 95HP diesel engine that is a dream on the motorways ... up into 5th and it doesn't matter if you are doing 45 or 70mph you only need to squeeze the throttle and off she goes ... similarly in town there is no need to play with the gearbox in traffic.

Ivan

[tomstickland]

Personally I prefer to work the gearbox and rev the engine and prefer petrol for its ability to rev. I'd consider a diesel enging; I don't have any particular problem with them.

Regarding servicing costs, I do all my own so don't care what garages bother to charge. There's very little servicing to do to a basic petrol engine; oil and filter changes and new plugs every now and then.

[stefingos]

Of course you can have the best of both worlds a BMW 330d - buckets of torque, 43mpg, a great driving experience and with the straight six engine it hardly sounds like a diesel!

With all the other benefits mentioned above this has to be one of the best all-round cars on the road!

[tomstickland]

Even the 320D is pretty good.
The torque thing is overemphasised though. Whilst it makes for a flexible driving experience, it's the power spread that governs the acceleration performance of a car. Power to weight alone is a very good predictor of acceleration times, regardless of whether the engine make 300lb-ft or 20 lb-ft.

[Murphy_The_Cat]

Of course you can have the best of both worlds a BMW 330d - buckets of torque, 43mpg, a great driving experience and with the straight six engine it hardly sounds like a diesel!

With all the other benefits mentioned above this has to be one of the best all-round cars on the road!

Horses for course and all that, but thats an awful lot of money for a (IMO) small car.

MTC http://ofuabduction.com/images/alex/HissyClaw.gif http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e347/Murphy2006/MTCEnglish.gif

[albacore1854]

Why bother with petrol !!

Audi A4 170PS, will return 50mpg on a run, and I've had 140 on the clock.

0-60 is ok, and she'll still lift the bonnet if you put your foot down at a ton

[Murielson]

Very interesting thread and my first addition is a question - if it is covered elsewhere please steer me to it and Mods maybe move this post as required:

I do a 75 mile each way commute Mon to Fri A303, M3, M25. Am now looking at changing my 1.8 Mondeo petrol workhorse that has given sterling service for the last 10 years to the most economical replacement.

What would you replace it with and why? Petrol, diesel, LPG etc.

[albacore1854]

3 year old 1.9 tdi passat.Its had its depreciation,and is a good solid workhorse

[onehitwonder]

I am looking to buy a used car for about £6,000. I have been looking at the Picasso 2.0 diesel, about 3 years old.
I only do about 7000 miles a year and 80% of that is driving around town.

Do you think I do too little, urban driving to justify buying a diesel?

Thanks.

[Need_More_Money]

I am looking to buy a used car for about £6,000. I have been looking at the Picasso 2.0 diesel, about 3 years old.
I only do about 7000 miles a year and 80% of that is driving around town.

Do you think I do too little, urban driving to justify buying a diesel?

Thanks.

Depends how much extra you are paying for the diesel car compared to a petrol car

[onehitwonder]

As far as I can see the 2.00 diesel is about the same price as the 1.6 petrol. So not a lot more.
Although I Admit I know nothing about cars so not sure what the main difference between the 1.6 and 2.00 is. :)

[Need_More_Money]

As far as I can see the 2.00 diesel is about the same price as the 1.6 petrol. So not a lot more.
Although I Admit I know nothing about cars so not sure what the main difference between the 1.6 and 2.00 is. :)

I'm assuming you are referring to engine size so the diesel is 2 litre and the petrol 1.6l. So you have a bigger more powerful engine in the diesel. DOes it have turbo.
You will save money in terms on mpg in the diesel. The quesion about how many miles you do is usually related to whether you save enough to justify paying more for the diesel in the first place

[rogerbanana]

something i have been doing for over twelve months now in my vw touran auto, is diluting the diesel with tesco cooking oil (£1-85 for three litres) and it works a treat.-----------make the mix no more than 50-50 and save some dosh! if you really want to be honest, get a customs and excise form and declare your useing oil as a road fuel and pay 21p tax on each litre . mind you, you have to say how much you have used that month.....

[rogerbanana]

as a matter of interest, my vw 2litre auto touran has a dial which shows the mpg . this is plus or minus 7% according to vw, and with my foot off the pedal it shows 75mpg at 30 mph. i know this isnt realistic motoring, but the overall consumption is impressive.

[apk1]

another factor to consider which i don't think has been mentioned, if you take the car abroad diesel is a lot cheaper -70p v 90p for unleaded, I do 5-6000 miles pa in france and so its much better for me.

[shona]

Lots of interesting stuff on her... I wonder if anyone could give me some advice.

I used to have a Honda CRV 2.0 SE 2002. I traded it in after a while as we were doing a high mileage in it and getting about 30 mpg and constantly in the garage as the tank isn't too big.

I bought an Audi A4 Avant tdi 130 bhp 2002, which everyone thinks is a briliant car, but mine seems like a bit of a lemon, and needs about £1500 repairs - climate control, rusty stone chips, you name it.

Meanwhile my mileage has gone down to about 15,000 per year, and I am tempted to get another CRV.

My dilemma is....

Jan 04 petrol Executive model (ie leather, nice level of trim) at £9995 (or sport at £8995)
or
2005 cdti (diesel) model, Sport (medium) trim level at £13500

I'm getting about £8k with a bit of haggling for the Audi.

I am tempted to 'save' cash by getting a petrol one - as the difference would buy a lot of petrol - ie several years motoring's worth of petrol before I use up the difference in cost.

My reckoning suggests that 2 years fuel in the petrol one would cost £4041, or £2786 in the diesel, and realistically I would want to change it around then anyway.

Do you think I am getting this right?

Which one would you get???

[nrishiraj]

I'm thinkin of getting a mazda 3 1.6, just deciding whether to get a diesel or petrol, my average annual mileage is around 6,000.

Is it not worth getting a deisel and just stick to a petrol car?

[shona]

Sounds like too low a mileage to make it worthwhile... unless you have a real bargain of it (ie similar price to a petrol) it's probably not worth paying extra for the car (and a little extra for diesel fuel over petrol) for that sort of mileage...
Shona

[walkritenow]

There are ways of making your own Bio diesel from vegetable oil, that you can research, these seem to almost ammount to setting up your own refinery and then they recommend modifying the fuel pump and installing in line or fuel tank heaters etc.
But the easiest way is to get a bog standard older diesel (not common rail type). Get a load of the cheapest vegetable oil you can find - e.g. catering supplies, typically less than £1 a gallon. Put it straight in the tank when it is half full of diesel for a 50/50 mix. Mine runs fine - I have tried it at 80% with no problems. I have even used filtered oil from the chippy. It tends to leave a smell of fried food everywhere I go but so what.

[gigglewiggle]

Does anyone know on a like-for-like car at what point does Diesel become less cost effective? What does the price per litre difference have to be?

[thescouselander]

Maybe already mentioned but to add another reason to Mutphys list
4) driving experience

Since a od diesel engine has so much torque there is none of this rattling aorund the gear box looking for a suitable gear like you have in a petrol engine. I drive a lowly 1500cc 95HP diesel engine that is a dream on the motorways ... up into 5th and it doesn't matter if you are doing 45 or 70mph you only need to squeeze the throttle and off she goes ... similarly in town there is no need to play with the gearbox in traffic.

Ivan


On the other hand, since a diesel engine redlines at such a low RPM I always find I'm rattling round the gearbox to stay within the narrow RPM range available.

The idea that diesel engines reduce the need to change gear is flawed - personally I find I have to change gear more in a diesel car.

[IvanOpinion]

On the other hand, since a diesel engine redlines at such a low RPM I always find I'm rattling round the gearbox to stay within the narrow RPM range available.

The idea that diesel engines reduce the need to change gear is flawed - personally I find I have to change gear more in a diesel car.That surprises me ... I am now on my 4th diesel and the one thing I have always liked is that I find them more relaxing to drive .. simply because I do not have to change gear so often. The one exception may have been the Rover which suffered terrible turbo lag low down in the revs (although this can be alleviated a bit by disconnecting something on the air intake).

What diesel are you thinking about?

Ivan

[AdrianHi]

Does anyone know on a like-for-like car at what point does Diesel become less cost effective? What does the price per litre difference have to be?
The answer is, somewhere between diesel costing somewhere between 20% and 35% more depending on which cars you are comparing and a load of other variables including what your personal financial circumstances are - for example - if a diesel requires you to tie up an extra £1000 of your cash in a car, what does that cost you? 6% mortgage interest rate because it is another £1000 not paying off your mortgage or 3% saving rate. That would be at todays fuel prices, if diesel gets more expensive relative to petrol, possibly during the time you have a particular car, the % could change. You need a crystal ball to be 100% certain. Can only do the calculation using todays prices.
If you can tell me what cars you are considering we can try and work it out to a reasonable degree of certainty if you like.

[thescouselander]

That surprises me ... I am now on my 4th diesel and the one thing I have always liked is that I find them more relaxing to drive .. simply because I do not have to change gear so often. The one exception may have been the Rover which suffered terrible turbo lag low down in the revs (although this can be alleviated a bit by disconnecting something on the air intake).

What diesel are you thinking about?

Ivan


I drive a lot of different cars due to work but mostly my experiance is with Ford TDCI diesels (Focuses and Mondeos). Usually the Turbo doesn't get going until over 2000 RPM and then you have to change around 4000 RPM because the power starts dropping off again - lots of gear changes required on country roads!

Having said that the equivelant petrol variants are total bobbins so if you compare the two diesel would win - unfortunately a lot of modern petrol engines dont seem to have any torque. My own car is petrol driven and has masses of torque so pulls effortlessly in any gear and has a large rev range to play with compared with a diesel.

The best Diesel I have driven was a VW Jetta with an automatic box - seemed to be a good combination.

[AdrianHi]

I drive a lot of different cars due to work but mostly my experiance is with Ford TDCI diesels (Focuses and Mondeos). Usually the Turbo doesn't get going until over 2000 RPM and then you have to change around 4000 RPM because the power starts dropping off again - lots of gear changes required on country roads!

Having said that the equivelant petrol variants are total bobbins so if you compare the two diesel would win - unfortunately a lot of modern petrol engines dont seem to have any torque. My own car is petrol driven and has masses of torque so pulls effortlessly in any gear and has a large rev range to play with compared with a diesel.

The best Diesel I have driven was a VW Jetta with an automatic box - seemed to be a good combination.
I'm in my first diesel and have come to the conclusion the best way to do diesel is with a good combination of auto box and a diesel engine with some decent pull available from 1500rpm.
The now rather old VW 2.5 TDI engine is pretty hopeless as an auto, nothing then it suddenly lets rip on acceleration.
They give you a diesel with a narrow 1500/1800 to 4200 useful rev range... and then give you a 6 speed manual gearbox too. Hard work at times especially as you need 55mph+ to hold 6th and you cannot always maintain that speed on A roads.

[thescouselander]

I'm in my first diesel and have come to the conclusion the best way to do diesel is with a good combination of auto box and a diesel engine with some decent pull available from 1500rpm.
The now rather old VW 2.5 TDI engine is pretty hopeless as an auto, nothing then it suddenly lets rip on acceleration.
They give you a diesel with a narrow 1500/1800 to 4200 useful rev range... and then give you a 6 speed manual gearbox too. Hard work at times especially as you need 55mph+ to hold 6th and you cannot always maintain that speed on A roads.

Yeah, exactly my point. If I ever bought a diesel (and I hope I never have to) I'd probably go for an auto box.

[AdrianHi]

Yeah, exactly my point. If I ever bought a diesel (and I hope I never have to) I'd probably go for an auto box.
BMW 6 cylinder diesel plus auto box = awesome, when tuned better even that a V8, that's a diesel to lust after :cool: and on the new ones you'll see early mid 40's to the gallon on open roads. Not really money saving though :o

[hotpot]

Can anyone please advise me. I am about to buy a new 'used' car and drive 20000 miles per year. With the current price of diesel what would be the most cost effective?

Many thanks

[Garetha]

Can anyone please advise me. I am about to buy a new 'used' car and drive 20000 miles per year. With the current price of diesel what would be the most cost effective?

Many thanks
With the current price difference I think the days of the diesel are numbered.

Old scenario:

Diesel cost significantly less per mile
More expensive to buy the car
Final value higherNow 1 is marginal, 2 is unchanged and 3 may no longer be the case as diesels lose their running cost advantage.

So my personal view based on current fuel prices is - get a bike!

:T PS I see this was your first post. Welcome! :T

[Hintza]

Can anyone please advise me. I am about to buy a new 'used' car and drive 20000 miles per year. With the current price of diesel what would be the most cost effective?

Many thanks


Following on from what Garetha has said.

Decide what cars take your fancy petrol or diesel and run a spread sheet on them. I suspect that Diesel will work out cheaper for you but bear in mind on current form diesel is increasing faster thatn petrol so it might be worth doing a check on scenarios (ie what if petrol increases by say 25% and Diesel by 35% and see what leeway you have).

Keep things simple and write both cars down to zero as I think the secondhand car market is going to go through a bad patch and prices will be unpredictable over the next few years.

Remember to include current and future VED in your calculations.

[BillScarab]

I've currently got a diesel Octavia, it's a company car and when I worked otu the tax, fuel use etc. it was just cheaper than the equivalent petrol model. I think when I change it in 2010 though that the petrol will work out better given the way fuel prices are going.

One thing I don't understand is why manufacturers charge so much more for diesel models. I can't see where the extra cost comes from as a diesel engine is pretty much the same as a petrol engine and in theory should be simpler as you don't have all the HT side of the electrics. I'd have thought by now the price differential should be a lot less.

[sunbeam73racer]

OK Here's some number crunching:
FORD FOCUS 1.6 DIESEL v FORD FOCUS 1.6 PETROL
COMBINED PETROL MPG = 42.8 v COMBINED DIESEL MPG 58.9
Lets say we do 10000 Miles / Year.
Current fuel price at Tesco near me: Petrol; £1.10 / Litre = £5.00 / gallon. Diesel; £1.21 / Litre = £5.63 / gallon.
For 10000 miles the Petrol will consume 234 Gallons costing £1168
For 10000 miles the Diesel will consume 170 Gallons costing £957

The diesel focus therefore costs £211 less in fuel over the year.

Considering that new & secondhand values are more expensive for the diesel, is it worth it?

[AdrianHi]

OK Here's some number crunching:
FORD FOCUS 1.6 DIESEL v FORD FOCUS 1.6 PETROL
COMBINED PETROL MPG = 42.8 v COMBINED DIESEL MPG 58.9
Lets say we do 10000 Miles / Year.
Current fuel price at Tesco near me: Petrol; £1.10 / Litre = £5.00 / gallon. Diesel; £1.21 / Litre = £5.63 / gallon.
For 10000 miles the Petrol will consume 234 Gallons costing £1168
For 10000 miles the Diesel will consume 170 Gallons costing £957

The diesel focus therefore costs £211 less in fuel over the year.

Considering that new & secondhand values are more expensive for the diesel, is it worth it?
I did some calcs. a coupe of months back for someone comparing equivalent diesel and petrol Mondeos (brand new) and 10,000 miles per year turned out to be the break even point. If you are buying second hand the faster depreciating petrol car is better priced and going to be the best on cost.
Next year diesel car sales are forcast to claim another 5% of sales off petrol which is going to make diesel more expensive relative to petrol.
If you are buying new there is not much in it, go for the engine you prefer.
I actually quite like the torquey power deliver of a good turbo diesel.

[stphnstevey]

Great thread

[ajfox]

I hope diesel is dead - see this weblink: http://www.ecotravel.org.uk/fuels_5.html Everyone thinks diesel is green but it isn't very green when it comes to NOx and particulates! I own a BMW525D and can only get 30mpg on B roads - I also have a Nissan xtrail petrol - same weight as the BMW but ever so slightly less slippery through the air but I still get the same mpg! In real world driving, diesels don't offer a vast improvement over petrol and looking at this website: http://www.petrolprices.com/ A diesel needs to be at least 15% better in terms of mpg (real world mpg that is) in order to make the purchase worth while. This is only true if the diesel car has the same purchase price as the petrol.

[edde]

my pug 307 diesel has a 12000 mile or 2 year servicing gap. i challenge you to find a petrol car with a 2 year servicing gap!!!

also, try driving a petrol up a hill, the diesel will kick its !!! any day, more torque!
Loads of cars both petrol and diesel have 2 year service intervals.

[Locoblade]

The argument for/against diesels really does depend what cars you decide to draw comparison with. Like for like (ie same car but with petrol or diesel engine), diesels are often a good 30-50% more fuel efficient than their petrol equivalent. Obviously thats not always the case and there are certainly some manufacturers out there who seem to offer diesles that aren't a whole lot more efficient than their petrol counterparts, but if you pick the right car, a diesel will still work out significantly more economical over about 10k anual mileage, despite the higher fuel costs.

My car for example, a Seat Leon Cupra, its a 1.8 Turbo petrol and does about 30mpg if I nanny it around, maybe 32-34mpg tops on a gentle motorway cruise. A friend of mine has a 150bhp diesel Cupra which is almost as quick, yet that can get well over 50mpg on a motorway run, and around 45-50mpg with most day-to-day driving. Likewise the car Im considering getting next, a BMW 1 series, the 120i petrol struggles to get 30mpg judging by many real world comments, yet the quicker 120d returns at least 45mpg if not higher, so again a 50% improvement. This works out at about £700 saving in fuel per year compared to my current Leon or a 120i.

The other reason Im going to get a diesel is because for the type of driving I do, with the right car I honestly think it will be more fun. Thats because to get more than 25mpg from my Cupra on the type of roads I drive to/from work, I have to drive like a penny pinching taxi driver, constantly changing up at the lowest suitable revs and pootling along, not necessarily slowly, but not accelerating hard or extending the car in any way. With a diesel I can drive with a little more vigour and still get 40+mpg, but if I decide that's not good enough, I can revert to economy mode and get 45-50mpg as required.

I still prefer driving a petrol for the power delivery, but some (not all) modern diesels now drive a lot more like a turbocharged petrol than they used to, so they can still be fun. The popular VW/Audi engines still seem to be very much old school in their power delivery though from what Ive experienced, with a big slug of torque as the turbo kicks in followed by a tailing off as the revs rise, which feels fast initially but ultimately is very unsatisfying to drive. The BMW 2.0d engine in comparison revs a lot more freely and pulls to the red line which is one of the reasons Im going for the 1 series over a 170bhp TDi Golf or Audi A3.

[harveybobbles]

my pug 307 diesel has a 12000 mile or 2 year servicing gap. i challenge you to find a petrol car with a 2 year servicing gap!!!

also, try driving a petrol up a hill, the diesel will kick its !!! any day, more torque!

Dragging this up from 3 years ago, but near enough all petrol cars have 2 year servicing intervals...

[big gay kirk]

I hope diesel is dead - see this weblink: http://www.ecotravel.org.uk/fuels_5.html Everyone thinks diesel is green but it isn't very green when it comes to NOx and particulates!

choosing between diesel and petrol on environmental grounds is rather like choosing between whether to die of lung cancer or skin cancer.... its like the con job they did persuading people to switch from leader to unleaded... saved the fuel companies millions, made a lot of people feel warm and squishy, and did absolutely nothing good for the environment.. just swapped tetra ethyl lead and brain damage for benzenes and lung complaints and cancers....

[vix11]

I'm looking to get a car to do a 25 mile round trip a 3-4 days a week to my PT job [BTW I do have a FT daytime job]. So that's less than 6k a year inc any extra SDP use of the car.

I worked out:

eg yaris diesel is on average 1k more than petrol equivilant. Just counting the difference in road tax (assuming the tax for pet/deisel eqivilants rise in the same way as I believe, therefore not worth accounting for) the difference over a four year period is £340. So £1k/4 = £250 so just in RT I get £90 in my pocket and I've not inc mpg, but thats not much considering the miles I do anyway. Yet I have assumed the service would be not much higher and I have not calculated for supposedly higher price of repars/maintanence of diesels so I'm !!!!!!ed if I have to replace/repair those diesel specific parts!

Am on the right tracks here and is it really worth it for my situation? I am also only looking at two models. after extensive research I narrowed it to a corsa or yaris - ones cheaply maintained the other supposedly reliable hence less maintenece. I know this is true of petrol but please do also correct me for diesels.

This is a great thread, so much info. I am def convinced into buying diesel had I had much more of a longer journey to do annually, but of course my situation is different which is why I am confussed!:confused:

[Garetha]

I believe the running cost advantage of diesel are over unless you do a high mileage. 6k miles is not high.

There are few other reasons to go diesel.

ps: I see I said the same thing on this thread in July - sorry for repetition!

[peter_the_piper]

Been using bio fuel in our diesel corsa (P reg) and get about 60mpg normally at 10 to 15p per litre saving so very worth while. Not all diesels can use it though so check with manufacturer before using. This biofuel uses recycled cooking oil with an additive to stop coagulation in cold weather. Having said this my daughters Aygo/107/c1 does 60plus mpg with a tax currently at £35 (this was due to go down next year) so not sure which way to go if/when we need to change in the future.

[bclark]

I hope diesel is dead - see this weblink: http://www.ecotravel.org.uk/fuels_5.html Everyone thinks diesel is green but it isn't very green when it comes to NOx and particulates! I own a BMW525D and can only get 30mpg on B roads - I also have a Nissan xtrail petrol - same weight as the BMW but ever so slightly less slippery through the air but I still get the same mpg! In real world driving, diesels don't offer a vast improvement over petrol and looking at this website: http://www.petrolprices.com/ A diesel needs to be at least 15% better in terms of mpg (real world mpg that is) in order to make the purchase worth while. This is only true if the diesel car has the same purchase price as the petrol.
Nice logic. So you are disappointed in Diesel because you only get 30mpg out of your hefty BMW X5? What consumption do you think that you would get out of its petrol equivalent :rolleyes:

[Hintza]

I'm looking to get a car to do a 25 mile round trip a 3-4 days a week to my PT job [BTW I do have a FT daytime job]. So that's less than 6k a year inc any extra SDP use of the car.

I worked out:

eg yaris diesel is on average 1k more than petrol equivilant. Just counting the difference in road tax (assuming the tax for pet/deisel eqivilants rise in the same way as I believe, therefore not worth accounting for) the difference over a four year period is £340. So £1k/4 = £250 so just in RT I get £90 in my pocket and I've not inc mpg, but thats not much considering the miles I do anyway. Yet I have assumed the service would be not much higher and I have not calculated for supposedly higher price of repars/maintanence of diesels so I'm !!!!!!ed if I have to replace/repair those diesel specific parts!

Am on the right tracks here and is it really worth it for my situation? I am also only looking at two models. after extensive research I narrowed it to a corsa or yaris - ones cheaply maintained the other supposedly reliable hence less maintenece. I know this is true of petrol but please do also correct me for diesels.

This is a great thread, so much info. I am def convinced into buying diesel had I had much more of a longer journey to do annually, but of course my situation is different which is why I am confussed!:confused:


If I was in your shoes I would stick with petrol. A better car to drive, less problems with maintenance, cheaper if things start to go wrong.

But the fact that the car is easier to drive would swing it for me. Money isn't everything you have to live with the beast...:)

[DKLS]

I would rather gnaw my own legs off then drive a diesel.
Horrid things the only diesel that I thought was actually worth having cost 32K and over 40K by the time i had gone through the options, saving a few quid isnt enough motivation to get an oil burner.

[Garetha]

I would rather gnaw my own legs off then drive a diesel.
Horrid things the only diesel that I thought was actually worth having cost 32K and over 40K by the time i had gone through the options, saving a few quid isnt enough motivation to get an oil burner.
:p Nicely argued :p
I've driven diesels for the last 10 years or more.
Brilliant to drive, and was well worth while when diesel wasn't so much more than petrol.
The engines outlast petrol engines and exhausts rarely rust through.
In some countries diesel fuel is still cheaper than petrol.

[Frugal_Moose]

Wife and I both have diesel cars, we used to do a fair few miles (certainly over average miles) wife changed jobs and now walks to work. We have kept both vehicles but with a 15p per litre price difference and substantially less mileage it's not worth paying the extra purchase price or running costs in my opinion.
My running costs include oil and filter change every 6 months in both cars on the advice of honest john.

[vix11]

Just as I thought, doing less than 6k miles a years won't save me much if anything so why bother with the hassle.

I just picked up another thing on this thread which I had probably overlooked before, that diesel engines potentially last longer than petrols if given proper TLC.

:mad:"some swear word"!!!!:mad: (to myself that is)

I said no to this job offer four months ago because I couldn't relocate and I assumed all engines, diesel or petrol, are less efficient and reliable and come near to their end when reaching around the 80K+ range so on my workings doing an average of just under 30k miles meant that I would need to start considering changing the car every 2-3 years and if I had taken the job I would have stayed with them for a long time as the offer and prospects were that good.

Knowing how long diesels can potentially last and that I could have looked to change around 4-5 years, I feel like even more of a wally for not having looked into this before. oh well thats life!

:TBut :beer: to you guys who have given so much valid info. I think I've learned more here than anywhere else I have looked on the net!:T

[bclark]

I would rather gnaw my own legs off then drive a diesel.
Horrid things the only diesel that I thought was actually worth having cost 32K and over 40K by the time i had gone through the options, saving a few quid isnt enough motivation to get an oil burner.
I have just moved into a Diesel after driving nothing but Petrol my whole driving life. I am loving the Diesel. The torque and power delivery is so much better than petrol and the actual usable power makes it much more fun to drive. Rather than all of the power being there at the top end it is in places it can be used.

[big gay kirk]

glad my van is a diesel.. remember having a 2l petrol transit years ago... hellishly expensive to run.... my current 2.5 diesel is as cheap to fuel as my 2l cortina.. can get about 40 mpg if i take my time....whereas with the petrol van i could just about squeeze 25 mpg on a trip if i was very careful....

[David Aston]

The government certainly seems to be gradually pricing diesel out of the market, so to speak. Shame, for diesel enthusiasts, I suppose.

[peter_the_piper]

Its now 16p litre dearer near us. (89.9p----105.9p)

[balf]

Bought an Audi A4 TDI diesel 11 years ago when I was still working and flush. Now retired and much less well off I am still running the old girl which is still in quite good nick. Costs a fortune to fill up though so necessity made me look at my driving techniques. Now I am getting 62 mpg by following the economic driving rules. So, if you really want to save on car costs the answer is buy the right car in the first place, like a diesel one with known good fuel economy. Aim to keep it for a long time, so choose one from a company that makes long lasting models, and a used one that has been well looked after is probably the best bet. Then learn how to drive it economically.

I can't afford to change my car or spend a fortune on fuel so I really had no option, but these are hard times for everyone and if we can cut down on the second? biggest expence it's a no brainer really.

David.

[bobbarley]

I think the thing is really boils down to is how many miles you do per year. Whether I owned a diesel or petrol engine I would still only do an oil change once a year, so it's a minor cost difference. I carry our all servicing on my car myself, so service my cars when I feel they need doing, and save money at the same time.

I drive a VW Golf mk4 1.8T. Had the car re-mapped so it's producing 200bhp instead of 150, and I even get better fuel economy as a result!

When I was looking for a car in February I was thinking about the big petrol/diesel debate in my head, and what it boiled down to, is which would save me more, given I don't do any more than 6,000 miles a year. I looked into it, and the figures come out as follows.

Petrol = 89.9p a litre (Manchester prices)
Diesel = 106.9 a litre(Manchester prices)

Golf mk4 1.8T MPG = 40 (Motorway)
Golf mk4 TDI MPG = 60 (Motorway)

Petrol cost per year = £613.04
Diesel cost per year = £485.98

So, each year a diesel would save me only £127.06. Given the fact the diesel would have cost me £1,000 more to buy, I wouldn't actually see any savings for SEVEN years!!

So as shown above, run your figures before you decide what to buy. For me petrol was better, but for others it could easily be the other way around. Personally I much prefer driving a petrol car, as they drive better on the road, and the 1.8T has more than enough torque (250 Nm) for everyday use.

[DKLS]

:p Nicely argued :p Am not trying to convince anyone :rolleyes:
I've driven diesels for the last 10 years or more. Poor you
Brilliant to drive, and was well worth while when diesel wasn't so much more than petrol. Could you point out which models have been "Brilliant to drive" as I have only encountered one oil burner that I considered worth owning, I have had a number of hire diesels, and without a shred of doubt they have been dire, yeah they might have good torquey take off, but wheres the mid range grunt?
The engines outlast petrol engines and exhausts rarely rust through. Like I care
In some countries diesel fuel is still cheaper than petrol. again like I care

[edde]

Petrol = 89.9p a litre (Manchester prices)
Diesel = 106.9 a litre(Manchester prices)

Golf mk4 1.8T MPG = 40 (Motorway)
Golf mk4 TDI MPG = 60 (Motorway)

Petrol cost per year = £613.04
Diesel cost per year = £485.98

So, each year a diesel would save me only £127.06. Given the fact the diesel would have cost me £1,000 more to buy, I wouldn't actually see any savings for SEVEN years!!

So as shown above, run your figures before you decide what to buy. For me petrol was better, but for others it could easily be the other way around. Personally I much prefer driving a petrol car, as they drive better on the road, and the 1.8T has more than enough torque (250 Nm) for everyday use.
Other things to consider are insurance can be less on a diesel depends on mdels some are more expensive.

Road tax can be more on a peterol

Most importantnly though diesels have a premium when you come to see so whereas it might be £1k more and 127 payback it might get grandf more at resale so that 127 saved a year

[bobbarley]

Those are indeed all true, which I took into account when I made my decision, so others should do the same.

As my Golf is a 1999 model, my tax was quite cheap, it's only going up to £200 from £185 a year in 2010, which I'm happy with. Insurance was the same as the diesel as well, which is great. And I've no plans to sell the car at any point. I'll get 4 or 5 years out of it, then my girlfriend will have it :)

[Garetha]

:p Nicely argued :p Am not trying to convince anyone :rolleyes:
I've driven diesels for the last 10 years or more. Poor you
Brilliant to drive, and was well worth while when diesel wasn't so much more than petrol. Could you point out which models have been "Brilliant to drive" as I have only encountered one oil burner that I considered worth owning, I have had a number of hire diesels, and without a shred of doubt they have been dire, yeah they might have good torquey take off, but wheres the mid range grunt?
The engines outlast petrol engines and exhausts rarely rust through. Like I care
In some countries diesel fuel is still cheaper than petrol. again like I care
:D :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :D not really worth a response ...

[Phil_L]

If anybody thinks diesels are poor performers look at the Skoda Octavia VRS.

The tax bands for diesels are starting to be lower than their petrol equivalent. The Polo is A rated and the Nissan Note is B rated. The petrol equivalents appear to be one tax band up from this.

The other issue is that diesels are generally more economic in stop/start motoring and tend to warm up faster.

[lee131]

The skoda Octavia 1.8T is petrol

the fabia vrs tho is diesel,

but yeah diesels are great performers,

just bought my first a little clio van 70mpg

gone from a BMW 323ci 24mpg

needless to say the bmw doesnt even get used now

[TiTheRev]

My Passat Est 130bhp Sport has more than enough torque to get going and will happily pull away in 5th or even 6th from 40mph up. I still get around 60mpg on a run too :D

[stphnstevey]

Petrol = 89.9p a litre (Manchester prices)
Diesel = 106.9 a litre(Manchester prices)

Golf mk4 1.8T MPG = 40 (Motorway)
Golf mk4 TDI MPG = 60 (Motorway)


I do about 20K per year and thought I might try using the figures above as they look fairly average.

Yearly cost of petrol = 20,000 miles/40 MPG = 500 gallons = 500 x 4.55 = 2275 litres = 2275 x 90p = £2047.50

Yearly cost of diesal = 20,000 miles/60 MPG = 333 gallons = 333 x 4.55 = 1516 litres = 1516 x 107p = £1622.83

So a saving of around £400 a year

Trouble is the equivilent diesal is often ~£2000 dearer than the petrol. However you could possibly recoup a proportion of that when you sell.

So it really boils down to if the depreciation per year is more than the £400 you save on fuel!!!

[TiTheRev]

Good work :)

[redux]

The government certainly seems to be gradually pricing diesel out of the market, so to speak. Shame, for diesel enthusiasts, I suppose.

The retail price is not set by the government, and the duty is the same.

[PurpleDog]

I'm going to need a car soon and have been doing some research...
I need a practical family car, cheap to run but fun to drive and I've narrowed the decision down to a Ford Focus.

Looking at the costs (fuel, road tax and insurance) a new shape Focus 2.0 diesel would cost me about £500 per year less than an old shape 2.0 petrol while offering similar performance (9.1s 0-60 as opposed to 8.9s) - so far so good.

The thing is that I could get an old shape 2.0, say an 04/54 with 40k miles for £5k or shell out £6k for a 05/55 2.0 TDCi with 70-80k miles on it.

The price difference will pay for itself in a couple of years, and I'm happy with that, but my concern is whether it makes sense to buy an 80k car? Is a 3 year-old car that's done 25k a year going to fall apart and cost me a bomb in repairs? I'm guessing the diesel engine itself is well capable taking that mileage and doing it all again, but what about the rest of the car?

Any thoughts?

[goldspanners]

I'm going to need a car soon and have been doing some research...
I need a practical family car, cheap to run but fun to drive and I've narrowed the decision down to a Ford Focus.

Looking at the costs (fuel, road tax and insurance) a new shape Focus 2.0 diesel would cost me about £500 per year less than an old shape 2.0 petrol while offering similar performance (9.1s 0-60 as opposed to 8.9s) - so far so good.

The thing is that I could get an old shape 2.0, say an 04/54 with 40k miles for £5k or shell out £6k for a 05/55 2.0 TDCi with 70-80k miles on it.

The price difference will pay for itself in a couple of years, and I'm happy with that, but my concern is whether it makes sense to buy an 80k car? Is a 3 year-old car that's done 25k a year going to fall apart and cost me a bomb in repairs? I'm guessing the diesel engine itself is well capable taking that mileage and doing it all again, but what about the rest of the car?

Any thoughts?

the focus is a pretty solid car,ive got a 1.6 04 plate,last of old shape. its got 57k on it and only ever needed servicing,brakes and an intermediate drive shaft bearing (£30 for parts and 1 hour labour).
the best thing to do is drive each car. my dad has an 08 plate focus, he says mine feels a better driver,everything feels a bit stiffer on mine compared to his considering mine is 4 years older.

have a drive in both and then decide.

[Brooktop]

I currently have a Clio 182 which I love, but with a young family it's becoming impractical. It's a company car, so the purchase cost/depreciation/road tax aren't really an issue for me. It all boils down to a fuel cost argument. I do about 12,000 miles per annum, of which around 4,000 will be long distance motorway business miles. The rest is short, cold runs through town (ie stop/start). My understanding is that diesel is better in such circumstances.

I want a car that is larger but also fun to drive. My early research has brought me to the sporty diesel Seat Leon FR TDI (170 bhp). Is this a realistic option or would I be better with a petrol car? I did test drive a Honda Civic 1.8 i-VTEC petrol and though I like the looks and the performance was ok (I realise none of these will be as 'spunky' as my Renaultsport), I think I prefer the Leon (I've yet to test drive one but a friend has the Leon Stylance which is a less sporty model - and he loves it).

Comments/opinions would be greatly appreciated.

[isplumm]

Hi,

I have a 51 plate ford focus TDCi 1.8, so bought new in 2001 - now has done 200000 miles - very little has gone wrong with it - very good drive !!

Mark

[Hintza]

Not a problem if you have a younger diesel but those running slightly older cars need to factor in the possibility of replacing the "dual mass flywheels" in older diesel cars.

You probably want to do some research into thid prior to buying.

[jakedee010]

I have recently given up on my Opel Corsa 97 1.4 Unleaded for a Opel Corsa 2.0 diesel. Im seeing better news for my wallet but....... it's mutch noisier in the front and slower by 2-3 mph. I do however think i will stick with diesel because its mutch more quicker and reliable on the 07-09 models of car.
:beer: