Young Drivers' Insurance.

[Harry Potless]

Hi,

My son is 17 (and three-quarters).

He's taking driving lessons and has put in for his test.

He's very sensible (non-drinker, non-smoker, student, good part-time job etc - pretty much everything I wasn't at his age - :rotfl:).

What is the cheapest way to get insurance?

I'm 50 and haven't had any accidents, claims or convictions in all my years of driving.

Should I buy his first car in my name and insure it and then add him on as a named driver, or are there complications and are there better (cheaper) methods available?

TIA

[Jakg]

If you do the named drive method when he drives the car more than you, it's fronting and his insurance is null and void.

Unfortunately young drivers (especially male) get raped.

The only thing you can do is shop around and add yourself (as a named driver) to the policy as that pushes the quote down slightly. Make sure you get a quote for both before and after he passes his test - some companies (i.e. Quinn) put their quotes up when you pass...

I'm 17 (18 in a month) and my first years insurance on a 1.5L hatchback with all of 84HP was £2,000 - Which was paid for by my parents thank god (As i'm under 18 I wouldn't even of been able to pay monthly...). Unfortunately my insurance is due in 2 months so thats gonna be another grand to pay, I just hope to pay upfront to avoid interest...

Does he have a car, and if so, what is it? The type of car can make a huge difference (and not just the logical choices either...)

[bigoggy2007]

do not insure a car in your name that he will be the main driver of, that is called fronting and is illegal. if caught your insurance will be cancelled and the police informed.

you are far better geting a small low insurance class car and finding the cheapest quote possible.

this will help in the long run as by the time he's into his 20s he will be geting between 25% and 50% cheaper insurance due to his no claims bonus that he's built up

[Jakg]

Insurance groups don't make that much difference - But small cars aren't as good as they sound because they are the most damaged cars so have the premiums pushed up - as such something slightly larger like Astra's are barely anymore to insure.

I like the idea of a Volvo 460 - but I don't really have the cash to change atm :P

[negg]

As stated, having him as a named driver when he is the main driver of the car is illegal.

But more than that, until they are about 25, it is going to be expensive anyway and one of the few ways to get cheaper insurance is to get a no claims bonus. There is only one way to do this...insure in his name.

Don't fall for 'no claims bonus accelerators' where you get a 'years no claims' after 10 months - these cannot be transferred to other companies since they are not one year.

Don't fall for the 'named drivers get a no claims bonus' - these cannot be transferred to other companies, you will get expensive renewal and as they will take the money but the insurance can be invalid if they find out he is the main driver.

One way to get cheaper insurance is to have him as the main driver and yourself as an additional named driver. Note that additional drivers do not have to ever even drive the car. The insurance company will assume you do some of the miles and lower the quote slightly. Plus you get the advantage that he builds up a no claims bonus and that you can drive the car, should you ever need to.

[RedBern]

also when he passes his test some companies give discounts for doing the pass+ course.

[Alybea]

Would you allow him to be a named driver on your car? I think Directline and a few others allow you to collect no claims bonuses to use on your own policy when you've got some.
If he's a student he'll only be driving to college normally and a few evenings out I'd assume? If he's going to uni next year he'll wont need a car anyway. Not having his own car for a year wont matter too much - honestly. (And he wont have to pay for services MOT and if he's clever he'll never have to fill it up! ;))

I'm 25 been driving for three years, three years no claims and currently driving a 12 year old car... I get quotes between £300 and £1000+ so it really does depend on the insuer, your house number, the colour of your car, if they like the sound of your name, how tall you are... there is no logic. Unfortunately a 17 year old boy is going to cost a bomb to insure.

[melorablack]

Paying for the premium up front is also much cheaper than paying monthly - and considering how high the premium is anyway, the interest added through paying monthly is terrible for young drivers.

[negg]

Would you allow him to be a named driver on your car? I think Directline and a few others allow you to collect no claims bonuses to use on your own policy when you've got some.

The no claims bonus gained cannot be transferred to other companies though, they won't accept it.

[jb66]

adrian flux sometimes gives a better quote than usual. I had a BMW 320i when i was 20 for about half the price elephoant quoted.

[before hollywood]

some drivers wont save money with pass plus, i was 22 when i passed and it wouldnt have saved me money.

be a named driver but not the main driver, that will save him about 10%

[mrs T]

I asked my insurance co (esure) to quote for adding my 17 year old daughter to my insurance and they said no, they wouldn't insure females under 19, probably older for boys. How can I get insurance to give her driving practice? My mum tried with her ancient peugeot 206 and was quoted 1800 pounds, more than the cars worth.

[wallbash]

Daughter was 17 , car fiesta , company Direct Line
She owns the car, and is the only driver, living in the SE England
First year £960 , but have recently renewed at under £600.

So yes the first year is tough, but it gets better.

[BikerEd]

My 18 year old daughter, who still hasn't passed her test, has been insured since Christmas (aged 17.5) in her own two year old VW Fox. Despite the relatively high value of the car it is only £650/year to insure. My wife and I are both named drivers on the policy and both of us have access to other vehicles (car for her, bikes for me). We got the insurance by following Martin's advice to use the comparison sites and in the end we got a policy from Elephant. She intends to do passplus after her test in a couple of weeks time and says she is going to try for her IAM test before renewal. I'm sceptical about that bit but admire her for wanting to try. Hopefully this will all mean a drop (or at best no increase) in her premium in December.

[Harry Potless]

Thanks for all the replies.

I learned a lot - I was seriously going to "Front" his insurance before I posted this.

Thanks to everyone who explained that to me and for all the other tips.

I guess it's best he had his own insurance to build his own NCB on.

Nice 1.

[cajef]

Have a read here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/moneybox/7052569.stm

[Harry Potless]

[QUOTE=cajef;22732905]Have a read here....................................../QUOTE]

That's an interesting and informative article.

I was even considering being the registered owner of the vehicle, though.

Would be pretty hard to prove "fronting" and pretty easy to defend it if I was the registered owner, I'd have thought.

As for the hypothetical claim whilst the car was in the University car-park, well that was on one of those occasional times he drove himself, rather than have me take him - he IS a named driver of the vehicle, after all and they've been happy to accept the premium payments for long enough without complaint.

But, all-in-all, I guess it's best he has his own insurance and earns his own NCB.

Thanks for your trouble in posting.

It's appreciated and was interesting.

[dacouch]

Harry, do you have another vehicle that you also drive? Does your wife / partner have another vehicle as well?

[flyingscotno1]

[QUOTE=cajef;22732905]Have a read here....................................../QUOTE]

That's an interesting and informative article.

I was even considering being the registered owner of the vehicle, though.

Would be pretty hard to prove "fronting" and pretty easy to defend it if I was the registered owner, I'd have thought.

As for the hypothetical claim whilst the car was in the University car-park, well that was on one of those occasional times he drove himself, rather than have me take him - he IS a named driver of the vehicle, after all and they've been happy to accept the premium payments for long enough without complaint.

But, all-in-all, I guess it's best he has his own insurance and earns his own NCB.

Thanks for your trouble in posting.

It's appreciated and was interesting.

I believe that some insurance companies have been known to hire PIs to check on these things when they suspect something up.

[Jakg]

If my insurers called where I work, they'd tell them I drive in, and if they call the company that owns work's carpark they'd have a form signed by me giving my car unlimited use for the carpark.

Similarly - My School (well i've left now w00t but a few months back I hadn't...) would also confirm that they've only ever seen myself driving anywhere.

In this case I would have to prove that I wasn't the main driver - if it's 7 miles to School each way and then 20 to work, and my car is in the respective carpark each day, then I would have to prove that while I wasn't using my car - the main driver on the policy was doing over 150 miles a week during the evenings - even though my Mum works at night and has her own car which she uses and my Dad works shifts with his car recorded as driving to work on their CCTV. As such - i wouldn't really have a leg to stand on and i'd be uninsured - Even simpler would be to check when i've filled up - my car does 230 miles on a tank and I fill it up once a week - as such it's impossible I could be anyone else but the main driver.

I've just been my own demise in 5 minutes - imagine what an insurer would do with the chance to avoid a £million payout to the victims of an accident involving Mr. Fronter?

As such - I'm the main driver - and my parent's are named drivers...

[Hintza]

One way to get round fronting is if the kids are away at university and the parents drive the car whilst they are away then of course it wouldn't be fronting, if they only drove whilst at home.

[Hadrian]

I asked my insurance co (esure) to quote for adding my 17 year old daughter to my insurance and they said no, they wouldn't insure females under 19, probably older for boys. How can I get insurance to give her driving practice? My mum tried with her ancient peugeot 206 and was quoted 1800 pounds, more than the cars worth.
If you try one of the many insurance comparison sites you will find that AFTER 25 is the age they consider to be a normal risk.

[melorablack]

I asked my insurance co (esure) to quote for adding my 17 year old daughter to my insurance and they said no, they wouldn't insure females under 19, probably older for boys. How can I get insurance to give her driving practice? My mum tried with her ancient peugeot 206 and was quoted 1800 pounds, more than the cars worth.

Don't Esure only insure older drivers anyway? like Sheila's Wheels insures women..it's how they keep their premiums down for their chosen market.

[bhavinshah]

Have you considering Endsleigh's student insurance? You pay for 6 months, after which you get 1yr no claims as long as you stay with endsleigh for another yr. at the end of that 18 month period, they give you a 2 year no claims certificate, which you can take elsewhere.

[andyman2303]

Don't bother with Pass Plus, hardly any insurers take it, and the ones that do are more expensive anyway, so a waste of money (although if he hasn't ever driven at night/rain/motorways(which he shouldn't have anyway) then it's good experience for him - not that I'd know!

My insurance was fairly cheap first year. Aslong as you don't mind being 3rd party (get fire & theft, hardly any difference - a friend learnt the hard way when his car caught fire!) then get that. The jump for a brand new driver from 3rd party to Fully Comp is enormous.

Ignore everyone saying about how your insurance is null and void blah blah blah. There's no way the insurance company can prove you aren't the main driver. And they won't go to the trouble of calling his school, his friends, the village idiot to find out if it's true or not. Just do it.

If your son does intend on going to uni as well, let the insurance company know - my premium came down 10% as you are only driving infrequently.

[Rikki]

Ignore everyone saying about how your insurance is null and void blah blah blah. There's no way the insurance company can prove you aren't the main driver. And they won't go to the trouble of calling his school, his friends, the village idiot to find out if it's true or not. Just do it.


It has been well reported in the press about fronting and peoples car insurances being void. Be careful what you advise!

[bhavinshah]

Ignore everyone saying about how your insurance is null and void blah blah blah. There's no way the insurance company can prove you aren't the main driver. And they won't go to the trouble of calling his school, his friends, the village idiot to find out if it's true or not. Just do it.

It is illegal though (not just a lie), so you risk going to court if, by whatever method, they do find out.

[raskazz]

Ignore everyone saying about how your insurance is null and void blah blah blah. There's no way the insurance company can prove you aren't the main driver. And they won't go to the trouble of calling his school, his friends, the village idiot to find out if it's true or not. Just do it.

Very bad 'advice'.

[wxmlad]

how would they actually find out? even if they watched for a week and saw someones son driving the car for the whole time how could they prove it? do they go on averages? what if he only drove the car for 2 weeks a year,whilst parent was on holiday/hospital??, hes on the insurance so he would be covered. And if the parent was the reg keeper it would be very hard to actually prove, just another way for them to wriggle out of paying out on the insurance. not that i condone it, just my 2 cents...

edit , does this only apply to young drivers? what if there is a husband and wife etc, can only one of them drive the car all the time, and the other use it now and again??

scare tactics always work...

[dacouch]

There are lots and lots of ways the Insurers can prove to the satisfaction of the ombudsman that the young driver is actually the main driver.

[BikerEd]

There are lots and lots of ways the Insurers can prove to the satisfaction of the ombudsman that the young driver is actually the main driver.
Such as what?

[bakerlad1983]

they had a section on this on this weeks top gear. might be worth a look on the i player. it did give good advise on this subject

[dacouch]

Amongst the ways would be

a) (This is the first thing they will do) Find out how many cars there are in the household, if there are three cars eg a normal car each for the parents and a third "spare" car that is the one that was in the accident there is a very good chance the car is the young drivers

b) Look at the car, does it have a better stereo than normal, is it modified etc, these can indicate its not the parents car.

c) When was the car bought eg was it bought around the time the driver passed their test.

d) They contact the dealer the car was bought from and ask who they sold it too, often the receipt is made out to the young driver or is the finance in their name

e) Speak to employers / colleges to find out if the parent drives to work or does the young driver drive to college and if so do they have a car park permit for it.

f) What sort of car is it, young drivers tend to go for certain vehicles

g) Listen to the tape when the claim was reported, often the young driver rings to report it and refers to the car as their car and the claims handler will normally ask if it was their car, you would be amazed how many will confirm its theirs.

h) Check with neighboors (You would be amazed what neighboors will say about other neighboors)

g) Some Insurers use lie detectors over the phone, if they don't use lie detectors they have staff trained in specialist questioning techniques to help indicate if someone is lying.

There can be many other things that indicate the car is being "Fronted". Where Insurers believe they have been deliberately misslead about the main driver they will investigate it as it is their pet hate. The parent can sometimes be prosecuted for fraud, the driver can receive a no insurance conviction and the claim be refused. In addition the Insurer will cancel the policy and once an Insurer has cancelled your policy in these types of circumstances the parent will find it virtually impossible to get cover for any type of Insurance again

Here are some of the Ombudsmans rulings on fronted vehicles

Amongst the ways would be

a) (This is the first thing they will do) Find out how many cars there are in the household, if there are three cars eg a normal car each for the parents and a third "spare" car that is the one that was in the accident there is a very good chance the car is the young drivers

b) Look at the car, does it have a better stereo than normal, is it modified etc, these can indicate its not the parents car.

c) When was the car bought eg was it bought around the time the driver passed their test.

d) They contact the dealer the car was bought from and ask who they sold it too, often the receipt is made out to the young driver or is the finance in their name

e) Speak to employers / colleges to find out if the parent drives to work or does the young driver drive to college and if so do they have a car park permit for it.

f) What sort of car is it, young drivers tend to go for certain vehicles

g) Listen to the tape when the claim was reported, often the young driver rings to report it and refers to the car as their car and the claims handler will normally ask if it was their car, you would be amazed how many will confirm its theirs.

h) Check with neighboors (You would be amazed what neighboors will say about other neighboors)

g) Some Insurers use lie detectors over the phone, if they don't use lie detectors they have staff trained in specialist questioning techniques to help indicate if someone is lying.

There can be many other things that indicate the car is being "Fronted". Where Insurers believe they have been deliberately misslead about the main driver they will investigate it as it is their pet hate. The parent can sometimes be prosecuted for fraud, the driver can receive a no insurance conviction and the claim be refused. In addition the Insurer will cancel the policy and once an Insurer has cancelled your policy in these types of circumstances the parent will find it virtually impossible to get cover for any type of Insurance again

Here are some of the Ombudsmans rulings on fronted vehicles

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/7/july-innocent-non-disclosure.htm

[RedBern]

there was a good discussion on today's money box on radio 4 that covered this topic including how to get cheaper insurance properly. It included buying a small engined car - no bigger than a 1000, and not an expensive car. Insuring it 3rd party, f&t, doing the pass plus or limiting the miles. The presenter said, 'but what if your son/daughter says 'oh dad, I'm not driving an xxx, I wanted a yyyy' you just say, 'well, in that case, wait until you're 25 and you can afford to insure it yourself, take it or leave it' - which I thought was the best advice of the day!;)

[Hadrian]

On the 15th of June last a young 17 year old driver was killed and his passengers seriously injured near to where I live in Northumberland. This weekend yet another 17 year old was killed also injuring his passengers and also in this area. I know one of the family's and the utter devastation they are going through so I feel strongly about allowing these children to drive.

[melorablack]

On the 15th of June last a young 17 year old driver was killed and his passengers seriously injured near to where I live in Northumberland. This weekend yet another 17 year old was killed also injuring his passengers and also in this area. I know one of the family's and the utter devastation they are going through so I feel strongly about allowing these children to drive.

There are many 17 year olds who don't crash their cars.

[Jakg]

On the 15th of June last a young 17 year old driver was killed and his passengers seriously injured near to where I live in Northumberland. This weekend yet another 17 year old was killed also injuring his passengers and also in this area. I know one of the family's and the utter devastation they are going through so I feel strongly about allowing these children to drive.I think you'll find a lot of people of all different ages crash their car - but thanks for the stereotype!

PS - Your old and your music sucks.

[jb66]

On the 15th of June last a young 17 year old driver was killed and his passengers seriously injured near to where I live in Northumberland. This weekend yet another 17 year old was killed also injuring his passengers and also in this area. I know one of the family's and the utter devastation they are going through so I feel strongly about allowing these children to drive.


“It could have been a scene from an advert for a new pair of designer glasses. But for one 89-year-old driver, the test of navigating a busy street proved too much after he ploughed through the front of an opticians, causing up to $28,000 worth of damage (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1195777/Oops-gone-Specsavers-OAP-drives-opticians-shopfront.html). The pensioner, who was wearing glasses, mounted the pavement in Seaford, East Sussex, careered through the shop and smashed two display units of designer sunglasses before coming to a halt just in front of three shocked members of staff. Owner of Sussex Eyecare, Daeron McGee, said: ‘He was wearing specs, but I have to say he wasn’t one of my customers. ‘He said he had a dizzy turn and hit the accelerator instead of the brake. ‘He smashed through the window and took out a cabinet of Oakleys and a cabinet of Ray Bans, about 300 pairs in all. ‘Our front door is now on its side and the shop front has gone. My staff are all a bit shaken up but accidents happen and nobody was hurt, which is the main thing.” w/ photos

i feel strongly about letting these old fogies drive

[melorablack]

For every 17 year old who crashes their car there will be a 17 year old who doesn't and for ever pensioner who crashes their car there will be one who doesn't.

[RedBern]

Jakg Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadrian http://images.moneysavingexpert.com/images/forum_images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=23058371#post23058371)
On the 15th of June last a young 17 year old driver was killed and his passengers seriously injured near to where I live in Northumberland. This weekend yet another 17 year old was killed also injuring his passengers and also in this area. I know one of the family's and the utter devastation they are going through so I feel strongly about allowing these children to drive.

I think you'll find a lot of people of all different ages crash their car - but thanks for the stereotype!

PS - Your old and your music sucks.

not quite accurate sadly Jakg.

Statistically young boys are more likely to crash - and their prangs cost over £4k on average - which is why insurance for boys is more expensive. Insurance for young girls is cheaper as their 'bumps' cost, on average 'only' £2k. If there weren't so many expensive accidents involving under 25s, insurance wouldn't be so expensive but insurance companies have to load the risk accordingly. Not stereotyping - risk assessing.
PS may be old, but my music doesn't suck mate;)

[Nilrem]

The main difference is that in insurance terms the percentage of younger drivers involved in accidents, especially serious ones is much higher than say the old fogies (who might have slower reactions/sight, but will generally have much more experience of driving and more regards for their own mortality).

I've never been involved in more than a few parking scrapes, however the number of young men around my age when I was younger who were involved in major accidents (even when no injury was sustained) was scary - a worrying percentage of them managed to hit "black ice" "diesel" or "mud" on the road with the result they went into fields/hit trees etc, it was never the fact they tended to drive fast in unsuitable conditions because their opinion of their driving was very high despite their experience being rather low (and common sense almost non existent).

Ultimately insurance is all about the risks involved and statistically younger male drivers cost a lot more in claims than older drivers, hence the price difference.

[Jakg]

not quite accurate sadly Jakg.

Statistically young boys are more likely to crash - and their prangs cost over £4k on average - which is why insurance for boys is more expensive. Insurance for young girls is cheaper as their 'bumps' cost, on average 'only' £2k. If there weren't so many expensive accidents involving under 25s, insurance wouldn't be so expensive but insurance companies have to load the risk accordingly. Not stereotyping - risk assessing.
PS may be old, but my music doesn't suck mate;)
Do young drivers have more accidents? Yes - I'm not disputing that. It was more the attitude of the poster of this gem:

I know one of the family's and the utter devastation they are going through so I feel strongly about allowing these children to drive.

Can they really get any more high and mighty?



BTW - The Who - Eminence Front = Awesome.

[LittleMissAspie]

Don't fall for 'no claims bonus accelerators' where you get a 'years no claims' after 10 months - these cannot be transferred to other companies since they are not one year.

Don't fall for the 'named drivers get a no claims bonus' - these cannot be transferred to other companies, you will get expensive renewal and as they will take the money but the insurance can be invalid if they find out he is the main driver.

I bought my first car at 21 and got insured on a 10-month scheme with Diamond. I kept the car for two "years", ie 20 months, then bought a classic car which Diamond wouldn't insure. So I got insurance with another company with 2 years no claims bonus.

My boyfriend learnt to drive two years ago. His mum put him as a named driver on her car with Direct Line, and we borrowed it occasionally. He recently bought his own car and did the usual ringing around/internet quotes. Direct Line were £200 cheaper because of the 2 years named driver no claims bonus.

[botty]

Our son passed his test on Friday and after the elation we were shocked to find that after 2-days of using the internet and phone that the cheapest quote we have got so far is £3,000 with Tesco. We knew it would be expensive but as some of his friends were paying less we didn't expect that much.

Many of his friends appear to have their parents fronting their policy and are paying less than £1500 - which we're not prepared to do.

So, it looks like a new Tesco credit-card with 12-months interest free and pay it off over the 12-months.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[John 3:16]

What car is he going to have?

Our 17yr old had a quote for £2000 for a clio. We know have him on the wifes car with a 19yr old as well. It is her car and he has to wait till he can have it as she uses it 4 days a week. We pay £77 a month for that from NU they have a new name now? Did'nt think that bad and he is happy as he still gets to drive with not much of the cost.

Add yourself to the quote as a named driver that can bring it down.

[botty]

Cheers John.

He has a Micra 1.2S - just done some more sites and Direct Line's quote is £2397 which is by far the lowest I have had (£600 less than the next lowest). I intend to ring them and advise that he is doing his Pass Plus so hope that there is a further discount.

[BikerEd]

He has a Micra 1.2S - just done some more sites and Direct Line's quote is £2397 which is by far the lowest I have had (£600 less than the next lowest). I intend to ring them and advise that he is doing his Pass Plus so hope that there is a further discount.
Did you try Elephant?

Can your son hold on for insurance until he has done his Pass Plus? Might be worth buying the insurance once he has it as the premiums should be lower. My daughter's Pass Plus instructor gave her a sheet of insurance companies that are known to give discounts for Pass Plus. Presumably your son should be given something similar. It's also worth noting that Pass Plus certificate can take a couple of weeks to come back after the last lesson as they are issued centrally, not directly by the instructor.

[botty]

Hi Biker, I haven't tried elephant yet - I tried but it said we had used it before so I'm guessing that my son may already have done so.

We will be holding on until he has done his Pass Plus - my son did receive the sheet with a list of companies that recognise Pass Plus. He's a desperate man - but he's going to have to wait...

[dacouch]

There are companies that willl allow the Pass Plus once you have started the lessons

[SUESMITH]

our son is 17 and he is learning to drive, the cheapest insurance we found was aviva of all people who came in at £700 a year, all the rest wanted well over £1000, some up to £2500 for an old corsa. they also charge no alteration fees, quinn who always come up cheaper are horrendous to deal with and charge hundreds to alter the policy when you pass - or at least they have done with all sons friends and our friends kids

[jb66]

Hi Biker, I haven't tried elephant yet - I tried but it said we had used it before so I'm guessing that my son may already have done so.

We will be holding on until he has done his Pass Plus - my son did receive the sheet with a list of companies that recognise Pass Plus. He's a desperate man - but he's going to have to wait...

why havent you used comparison sites like confused.com? Elephant and churchill are on there