Botched Hernia Operation - Medical Claim

[FatMan]

I recently had elective surgery to repair a small umbilical hernia. The operation was carried out at a private hospital but paid for by the NHS. It was perforned under general anaesthetic and was an 'open' operation (ie it was not done laproscopically). The hernia was small enough that I was told it would not require the use of any 'mesh'; simple stitching only would be required.

Unfortunately, during the operation, a gastric artery (not sure which one) was cut but no bleeding was detected until post-op. This meant, another operation (laparotomy) to locate and repair the bleed. This operation failed too and a second emergency laparotomy was performed (successfully this time).

I then spent 3 days in intensive care and suffered halluciantions for about 5 nights whenever I tried to sleep. Altogether, I was in hospital for 11 days. As far as I can determine I was pretty close to death around the time of the second emergency laparotomy.

Has anyone had experience of pursuing a medical claim and what companies/solicitors would you recommend?

[Toothsmith]

When people have operations, bad things sometimes happen.

Just because something happened that wasn't according to plan doesn't mean anything was 'botched'.

You were well monitored, they detected the problem, and they put it right.

I think you'll be hard pressed to make a case.

[FatMan]

ToothSmith, I am surprised you chose to comment on the likely outcome of any possible claim without knowing the full facts. I have only provided a brief factual summary here, otherwise I could prejudice any claim. I have deliberately avoided making comments that could be challenged in court.

It will be up to a lawyer (with full knowledge of the facts) and not a member of the dental profession to decide the viability of any claim; I assume you do not have legal training in medical negligence do you?

The fact is, you have no idea how well I was monitored or how the injury to a gastric artery actually arose. Yes, there are always risks associated with operations but, equally, those risks vary depending on the surgeon performing the procedure.

At this point in time I am still at the ‘consideration’ stage and just wish to find a competent medical negligence lawyer who can assess my case. So please refrain from any future comments about my chances of a successful medical negligence claim, you are simply not qualified, nor do you have sufficient information to make that judgement

[mr_rush]

It is unfortunate but you were the one in a thousand patient who suffered a serious complication. This was dealt with. I can see no reason why you should be paid compensation.

In cardiology we consent people for procedures all the time. Usually things happen without a hitch but nothing is without risk. A recent patient had a stroke - a one in a thousand chance.

You would have signed a consent form that would have outlined the risks - including that of an emergency operation and probably one of death.

[calleyw]

Most solicitors firms now a days will have medical negligence solicitor on there team.

It is rather drawn out process.

Just book an appointment if you feel you have a case.

I am not really sure the relevance of this:

"I then spent 3 days in intensive care and suffered halluciantions for about 5 nights whenever I tried to sleep. Altogether, I was in hospital for 11 days. As far as I can determine I was pretty close to death around the time of the second emergency laparotomy."

This is just your take on the situation and has no bearing on the claim you want to make. They go on medical records not what think you. But what actually happened.

And you claim is actually decided by a Doctor who writes a report on your behalf for your solicitor. If the Dr say No then that is the end of it. And you could end up with a bill.

I am curious why and what you want compensation for? Have you been left disabled for life which means you can never work again, been sacked from your job because of the time taken off, because you are in constant pain.

Yours

Calley

[Toothsmith]

I have deliberately avoided making comments that could be challenged in court.


Apart from titling the thread 'Botched' Hernia Operation.

I've a feeling that isn't universally agreed by both sides yet?

I'm not a medical negligance expert - but I can see that 'botched' is probably just your opinion at the moment.

It might be proven to be so in the end, but - as I said in my post, and all that I was pointing out was - bad things do happen to even good surgeons occasionally.

[annie_d]

How fat are you Mr Fat Man? Could that have contributed to your distressing situation?

[FatMan]

How fat are you Mr Fat Man? Could that have contributed to your distressing situation?

BMI = 31. Yes I do realise that is a contributory factor.

[sillyvixen]

unfortunatly all ops have a risk of complications - unfortunatly yours has resulted in further proceedures that were unforseen at the time of admission.
i was admitted 4 years ago for a lap day surgery op - i woke up 7 hours later having recieved a life saving open op, i was in 10 days total (over 2 visits being readmitted a week later) and have since had further surgery to correct the problems of the origional surgery - i have no probelms with the surgery i have had - it saved my life - had my consaultant not been on the ball i would not be posting today!! while i have issues with the treatment i have recieved elsewhwere in the NHS - they saved my life when i needed it - i would not sue or even put in a complaint about the other issues as they saved my life!!

[FatMan]

My operation was only in the last two weeks. It is not yet clear if there will be any long term effects.

But I am due to go back to the hospital for a check-up in 2 weeks so I want to be very careful what I say because I will be seeing the surgeon who carried out the hernia operation.

Just because I wish to contact a medical negligence lawyer, this does not mean that I intend to pursue any claim. I am not in full possession of the facts yet but, prima facie, there is some evidence to suggest that something did go wrong above and beyond any normal risk associated with this operation. For obvious reasons, I cannot go into the details.

Rest assured, I am not someone just out to make money but, equally, I do not wish to see any negligence (if there was any) go unpunished. It may be that I decide to take up the matter with the GMC only or I may not pursue any further action at all.

I went through a pretty tough time, coming close to death on the operating table and requiring multiple blood transfusions so it is less than helpful for members of the medical/dental profession to be expressing their views on the validity of any medical negligence claim I may make when they really know nothing and I was not seeking that advice anyway.

I simply wish to find a good medical negligence lawyer that can provide some assistance at this early stage to ensure that I do nothing to compromise any medical negligence claim I may decide to make.

[border collie]

Have you spoken to the surgeon? He may explain what happened and then you might feel that it was unavoidable.

I would ask to see your notes too.


Hope you soon feel better

[FatMan]

Have you spoken to the surgeon? He may explain what happened and then you might feel that it was unavoidable.

I have not spoken to the surgeon who carried out the hernia operation since the operation has take place. I will be seeing him in 2 weeks time and will ask a lot of questions!

I have seen the surgeon who carried out the third operation and I was most impressed by him.

I do not yet know who carried out the second operation, but that will be one question on my question list.

I would ask to see your notes too.

Yes, that is another question on my list.


Hope you soon feel better

Each day gets better. Luckily, I have maintained my sense of humour and have not felt depressed at all.

[Toothsmith]

I went through a pretty tough time, coming close to death on the operating table and requiring multiple blood transfusions so it is less than helpful for members of the medical/dental profession to be expressing their views on the validity of any medical negligence claim I may make when they really know nothing and I was not seeking that advice anyway.

I simply wish to find a good medical negligence lawyer that can provide some assistance at this early stage to ensure that I do nothing to compromise any medical negligence claim I may decide to make.


I appreciate you went through a bad time, and would like answers.

You may well have a valid and right claim. I am not an expert in medical negligance.

If your first stop is a medical negligance lawyer though, their only way to make money and pay their mortgage is to convince you that you have a good claim and start off the whole merry-go-round.

It is very unlikely that a medical negligance lawyer will tell you that just making a written 'enquiry' to the hospital in a very non-threatening way might yield a whole lot better result in terms of finding out what happened to you than a legal case.

I would contact the hospitals PALS service first - a liason service between patients and the medics in charge of your case.

One thing I do know is that if the first thing a hospital receives is a solicitors letter from a known medical negligance lawyers, the shutters will come crashing down, and the chances of you ever finding out what really happened will be much less - Even if you win money in the end.

Start off gently and work up.

I really do wish you well, and hope this works out. Please take my advice in the spirit it's offered. Going in gently will get you further, get you more information, and cause you less stress than going in hard.

[FatMan]

You make some very good points ToothSmith

I am not one to go in with all guns blazing and I simply do not have sufficient facts at this point in time to do that anyway.

My strategy is to glean information as if I was making a claim on my medical insurance. That way, the surgeon concerned is more likely to be forthcoming. I also intend having a relative with me when I visit the hospital so they can confirm any conversation that takes place.

I am aware of PALS and have used them once in the past. I am not sure if it is an appropriate avenue though, if any medical negligence claim is being considered - it is something I will actively look into.

It is only 3 days since I left hospital and thinking is still a little difficult after such major surgery. I also have a pre-existing medical condition which, according to the surgeon who carried out my third operation has hindered my recovery.

Whilst I was in hospital I was very careful about what I said to nurses and doctors, mindful of the fact that a medical negligence claim could arise and I did not wish to prejudice any claim. Of course, I did have to sign documents before the second and third operations without really knowing what I was signing because of the poor condition I was in!

[Toothsmith]

I am aware of PALS and have used them once in the past. I am not sure if it is an appropriate avenue though, if any medical negligence claim is being considered - it is something I will actively look into.




It won't shut any doors - and you have 3 years from discovering the negilgence to bring a claim.

Worry about getting well first.

[point3]

You make some very good points ToothSmith

I am not one to go in with all guns blazing and I simply do not have sufficient facts at this point in time to do that anyway.

My strategy is to glean information as if I was making a claim on my medical insurance. That way, the surgeon concerned is more likely to be forthcoming. I also intend having a relative with me when I visit the hospital so they can confirm any conversation that takes place.

I am aware of PALS and have used them once in the past. I am not sure if it is an appropriate avenue though, if any medical negligence claim is being considered - it is something I will actively look into.

It is only 3 days since I left hospital and thinking is still a little difficult after such major surgery. I also have a pre-existing medical condition which, according to the surgeon who carried out my third operation has hindered my recovery.

Whilst I was in hospital I was very careful about what I said to nurses and doctors, mindful of the fact that a medical negligence claim could arise and I did not wish to prejudice any claim. Of course, I did have to sign documents before the second and third operations without really knowing what I was signing because of the poor condition I was in!

Echo Toothsmith's wise words - get well first. :beer:
Whilst it is understandable that you feel anger and resentment at your recent experience, you shouldn't let it colour your judgement. Is this really a case of negligence or one of an uncommon, unavoidable complication arising from surgery despite all the best precautions? When you signed the consent form, you proceeded with the knowledge that there was a risk of complications including haemorrhage, infection, failure of the operation, need for further surgery and even a risk of death.

I don't think either of us trusts that you have the full facts. For instance, you say a gastric artery was cut! :eek: Are you sure? Seems more likely that it was a branch of the inferior epigastric, which a well recognised complication of this type of surgery. At the time of the operation the nick in this small vessel goes un-noticed because it is not actively bleeding (due to various factors including controlled hypotension to reduce bleeding, positioning on the operating table, use of retractors which may have applied pressure to the bleeding point, the list goes on...). Being overweight, with lax abdominal wall tissues doesn't help matters. The bleeding is only noticed after the operation from routine observations; in your case it seems it was picked up promptly and the appropriate action was taken.

Take some time out. Be thankful that you have come through this and are now on the road to recovery. You may still decide to pursue this of course. Good luck in whatever decision you make.

[FatMan]

Whilst it is understandable that you feel anger and resentment at your recent experience, you shouldn't let it colour your judgement.

No, I have not felt any anger or resentment at what happened. I am fully aware that I do not yet know all the facts and anger based on ignorance of the facts is a pointless emotion.


Is this really a case of negligence or one of an uncommon, unavoidable complication arising from surgery despite all the best precautions?

I simply do not know at this stage if there was any negligence. What I do know is that the surgeon who carried out the hernia operation was uncontactable after the operation for a few hours.

When you signed the consent form, you proceeded with the knowledge that there was a risk of complications including haemorrhage, infection, failure of the operation, need for further surgery and even a risk of death.

Yes, of course, I was made aware of the risks.

I don't think either of us trusts that you have the full facts. For instance, you say a gastric artery was cut! :eek: Are you sure? Seems more likely that it was a branch of the inferior epigastric, which a well recognised complication of this type of surgery.

The only time I heard any mention of gastric artery was a few hours after I awoke in intensive care. You will appreciate that my thinking was clouded at that time and doctors were talking among themselves (not directly to me). So, it may well be a branch of the inferiror epigastric artery - but the answer is I simply do not know. It is a question on my list for the doctor who carried out the operation.


At the time of the operation the nick in this small vessel goes un-noticed because it is not actively bleeding (due to various factors including controlled hypotension to reduce bleeding, positioning on the operating table, use of retractors which may have applied pressure to the bleeding point, the list goes on...). Being overweight, with lax abdominal wall tissues doesn't help matters. The bleeding is only noticed after the operation from routine observations; in your case it seems it was picked up promptly and the appropriate action was taken.

That really is very useful information that has added greatly to my understanding and is really does point away from any sort of medical negligence. I am really grateful for hearing this.

Take some time out. Be thankful that you have come through this and are now on the road to recovery. You may still decide to pursue this of course. Good luck in whatever decision you make.

Yes, my main aim is simply to get better and your post has been most useful.

[jenhug]

get a copy of all your notes, before they are "lost" yes, it did happen to me!

[sillyvixen]

get well and get answers at your follow up before going on the offensive. as had been said you dont know the full affects of what has happened... you have 3 years to file for negligence - allow yourself to recover for now - the stress of worring abut what may be, will hinder your recovery.

you will have a stronger case when you have concrete evidence of long term effects.. a few weeks after major surgery is no indication of the long term.

[Mrs P Pincher]

It is a well rehearsed legal principle that not doing one's job properly is not necessarily negligence. Check out the Law Society Personal Injury/Medical Negligence Panel for a member in your area and take their advice. You may have a claim but, as others have said, you may not. However, you will not know that until and expert has seen and reviewed your medical notes.

As others have said, you have up to 3 years from the date of the incident, or the date you became aware of lasting after effects, whichever is the later, to issue a claim.

On a personal note, we live in an increasingly litigious society, but many of us would think twice about making a claim if the eventual outcome was good and an emergency had been handled satisfactory.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Mrs P P

[Beenie]

How do you go about getting your notes if your treatment was a mixture of private/NHS facilities?

[Slim4Summer]

Hi Fatman
Just to add my tuppenceworth ... at the followup meeting it is a good idea to have someone with you in case you dont remember all that was said, afterwards. You can ask for Minutes of the meeting to be sent to you later. As someone else said it would be a mistake to involve a lawyer at this stage.
Medical negligence cases are notoriously difficult. You should go to the Law Society website (England and Wales or Scotland as appropriate) and find an accredited specialist in medical negligence. You can then be certain they are expert at what they are doing!
Funding of med neg cases is a real problem. Unlike with other injury claims, you will not find a lawyer who is willing to pay for the reports required to establish your case - you will need to do that yourself although if the case is successful you will get the cost back. You might be looking at £1000 - £2000 for a report on the negligence issue and a further £750 for a report on your "losses" ie stating what actual difference the negligence has made to you in terms of pain and suffering etc. (People don't get damages for what "nearly" happened to them I'm afraid, no matter how catastrophic it would have been had it transpired.)You would also have to pay for your lawyer to recover copies of your medical records which might cost £50 or more.
If the reports were supportive the lawyer would probably continue to act on a no win no fee basis.
However, I don't know if you would be eligible for Legal Aid? It would be worth finding out.
Often a case looks like it is a "stick on" but it transpires that it does not meet the test laid down to establish medical negligence. For example it may well be that what happened to you was a rare but recognised potential complication? That is what the expert will have to be asked to comment upon in the report - ie whether the " negligence" meets the test laid down by the courts in Hunter v Hanley and the cases which followed.
Litigation is a long tough gruelling road and one you would not be advised to follow lightly.
In one of your posts you mentioned wanting the responsible person to be "punished" - I am afraid that wouldnt be likely to happen, but they would be under a lot of stress and sufer anxiety for the duration of the case. I am sure the doctor feels badly as it is. As do you of course!
Best of luck whatever you decide and I hope you feel better soon.

[FatMan]

Thank you Slim4Summer, some very useful information there.

Now that I know there are three years to make a claim, the matter will be put on the backburner while I wait to see if there are any long term effects. Assuming progress continues without any major setbacks I doubt any claim will be made.

I did see my GP yesterday and he said that during '36 years in the business' he had never known anyone else requring an emergency laparotomy after a peri-umbilical hernia operation. He went on to say that he had the same operation at the same hospital a few weeks before me and that he was glad the same problems did not occur in his case!

Nevertheless, my complication is not without precendent and I simply do not have sufficient medical knowledge to know if the complication arose from any normal risk factor or if the doctor exacerbated the risk by some avoidable 'mistake' during the prcoedure.

What I do know is that the consultant who carried out the hernai repair was 'unavailable' after my iniitial operation and this delayed subsequent treatment.

Anyway, my main concern at the moment is to get better and get back to working as a 'mystery shopper'. At the moment I am just fatigued and tired and have a low haemoglobin level due to the transfusion of 8 units of blood. I hope to be working again in about 10 days.

[Toothsmith]

Good luck, & get well soon.