Dodgy Car deal

[mrseyes]

I am very disappointed in a way how the sale of the car was handled. And in particularly with finance deal that was done with my son.

Firstly when looking at the paperwork, there were numerous figures used which at best it was hard to understand by an experienced person what makes them think that my son understood it.

Secondly, although my son is 22 and adult, the salesman blurred him with the entire interest rate issue. He quoted my son 10% interest but not told him whether this was APR or flat rate. In fact in his paper work APR is 20% and flat rate is 10%. I am sure as to what extent he went to explain the difference between these rates.

Additionally none of the following were explained.

The entire admin fee
Penalty if loan has paid early
Extra £2978.00 credit charge
An option to purchase payment protection insurance as this was added without knowledge
Select total warranty Small for 12 moths of £300 meant
Vehicle which is £5,260 could cost him approximately £9746.40 in total?

I think it was important that whilst intension to sell car was good, he actually plunged my son into life time debts.

[Ian Griffiths]

How long ago was the deal done? Is there not a cooling off period on the finance?

[blue_haddock]

Whilst the salesman may have talked him into taking all these options no one actually forced your son into signing the various agreements. If he is not able to make his own mind up on things then he should of taken someone with him.

[rdwarr]

Whilst the salesman may have talked him into taking all these options no one actually forced your son into signing the various agreements. If he is not able to make his own mind up on things then he should of taken someone with him.
Perhaps he believed the salesman when he said it was a good deal. Just because somebody is financially naive it doesn't mean it's OK to rip them off.

[Ian Griffiths]

doesn't mean it's OK to rip them off.
Indeed, but the question here is how much comeback do we have on the basis of what is essentially bad advice. My fear is the answer is not much.

[mrseyes]

OK: My son is 22yr, no one has forced him in signing forms, but no one has right to rip him off. My son earns less £12000 yr, how on earth any finanace company even consider giving him finanace deal worth not only £1000, £2000 but £9746.40 in total?

The deal was so dodgy that they did not have a cooling off period, and the finance company (on:line finanace) which i have never heard off.

[MrSmartprice]

All such credit agreements are regulated. Get down to Trading Standards or a Money Advice Centre pronto and let them look at the forms to see that they comply. If not, they may be unenforceable and you could have a way out.

[mrseyes]

Trading Standards said there is nothing they can do as the agreement form is signed.

[MrSmartprice]

Trading Standards said there is nothing they can do as the agreement form is signed.

That's fair enough if they have checked the agreement. If it complies with the Consumer Credit Act it will be legally binding.

[rdwarr]

Even the on:line finance website (http://www.olf.co.uk/index.htm) looks as though some of the products are a bit dodgy!

Although On:line are known to be a rate for risk Company, Dealers were reporting that the gap that existed between Premier & Prime or Prime & Classic was too great for some Customers. Having the availability of an improved risk model, through Equifax, has allowed On:line to underwrite the "rate for the risk" presented in a far more accurate way. This means that On:line can accept more Dealer proposals on terms which make it easier for the Dealer to sell more cars: more sales for the Dealer is On:line's unique selling point.

:eek:

[david29dpo]

sue for miss selling!

[mrseyes]

sue for miss selling? how do i go about it. My son cannot afford legal fees.

[Wig]

I have no idea how to help, you could try phoning in on a BBC show, or write a letter to "working lunch" BBC2.

Also you could phone up the financial ombudsman they must have a helpline and they might be able to tell you what the rules of engagement are. Then you can ask if this sort of credit deal is covered by them, and ask them to adjudicate on the case.

[k8vin]

Everyone who sells a financial products must take a competence test issued by the FSA. Check to see if this salesman has done it, if not he his not authorised to sell financial products of any kind, you may then have a case, and the company can be severley penalised, if he is your on a hiding to nothing.

[k8vin]

Just read another post, re mis selling, you wont get anywhere with this as it listed all the details line by line on the contract he signed.

[k8vin]

Sorry to bore you all, just one final thing to remember, your son is not tied to a lifetime of debt, you will notice on the finance agreement that after a certain period he can hand the car back to the finance company and owe nothing, it is called volentary termination, this is usually used when a car has negative equity, for example is you had your car valued at £5,000 but owed £7,000 usually if you have paid half of the payments you can hand the car back to the finance company. NO COST TO YOU.

[blue_haddock]

Everyone who sells a financial products must take a competence test issued by the FSA. Check to see if this salesman has done it, if not he his not authorised to sell financial products of any kind, you may then have a case, and the company can be severley penalised, if he is your on a hiding to nothing.

Not necessarily - you can sell the products under an umbrella agreement from the insurance company without having to personally assessed under the FSA rules.

[burbs]

Im fed up with people signing up to things and after the novelty wears off they decide they no longer want/need what they have signed up to and try to worm their way out of things without it causing them any problems.

Running a car sales business dealing sports cars i get young lads coming in all the time. Often they will be timewasters but on occasion they go through with a sale and take the finance. A few weeks later, perhaps a month or two they come back in with mummy and daddy.
"Our son doesnt want this finance and you shouldnt have sold it to him. I suggest you take back the car and cancel it as he didnt know what he was signing"

If your son has signed up for this agreement then what are you moaning about? Surely at 22 in the big wide world he can make decisions for himself? If he only earns a few grand why was he bothering to look at 10 grands worth of finance?

If your son wasnt happy with the agreement then he should have told them he would come back with his parents and have a look then, not just sign and whine about it.
Its not always dealers and finance houses which cause problems in these situations.

[david29dpo]

Im fed up with people signing up to things and after the novelty wears off they decide they no longer want/need what they have signed up to and try to worm their way out of things without it causing them any problems.

Running a car sales business dealing sports cars i get young lads coming in all the time. Often they will be timewasters but on occasion they go through with a sale and take the finance. A few weeks later, perhaps a month or two they come back in with mummy and daddy.
"Our son doesnt want this finance and you shouldnt have sold it to him. I suggest you take back the car and cancel it as he didnt know what he was signing"

If your son has signed up for this agreement then what are you moaning about? Surely at 22 in the big wide world he can make decisions for himself? If he only earns a few grand why was he bothering to look at 10 grands worth of finance?

If your son wasnt happy with the agreement then he should have told them he would come back with his parents and have a look then, not just sign and whine about it.
Its not always dealers and finance houses which cause problems in these situations.
sorry but i have to agree, to a point. i know lost of people who have done things like this, and they just want,want,want. a friend has £75000 on credit cards and earns £12000 a year. he is going to lose his house soon. he came to me for help, i did my best but i have no sympathy he must have known he has to pay it back. however, some pry on the nieve, more money education perhaps?

[110frankie]

I agree with ther last two posts and would add that car salesmen do not go out into the street, or come into your home.
Your son had to make the decision as to which make of car he liked then find it, via an advert or by going around car showrooms.
Then he had to make the decision to walk inside.
Then he had to ask the salesman about that one - not that other one.
Now, he's driving around in a lethal weapon that can kill people.
Yet you reckon he is too innocent to work out a finance deal?

[chrisw]

Im fed up with people signing up to things and after the novelty wears off they decide they no longer want/need what they have signed up to and try to worm their way out of things without it causing them any problems.

Running a car sales business dealing sports cars i get young lads coming in all the time. Often they will be timewasters but on occasion they go through with a sale and take the finance. A few weeks later, perhaps a month or two they come back in with mummy and daddy.
"Our son doesnt want this finance and you shouldnt have sold it to him. I suggest you take back the car and cancel it as he didnt know what he was signing"

If your son has signed up for this agreement then what are you moaning about? Surely at 22 in the big wide world he can make decisions for himself? If he only earns a few grand why was he bothering to look at 10 grands worth of finance?

If your son wasnt happy with the agreement then he should have told them he would come back with his parents and have a look then, not just sign and whine about it.
Its not always dealers and finance houses which cause problems in these situations.

I agree to a point, however I'm 42 and quite strong minded but I have felt myself pushed into a corner by a car salesman. It was extremely difficult to get away and I can quite appreciate how easy it is to 'find yourself' signed up to something. Some (but not all!) salesman use the best psychological techniques to convince you, which I suppose is how they get to become top salesmen. I would prefer to see them salaried rather than on commission but I guess at the end of the day, the business needs to make money.

[Ian Griffiths]

While salesmen are on commission there will be hard sell. While buyers go in wanting something there will be bad deals.

Best option for this agreement as posted already is to VT at the half way point. best option for the future is to do the maths before signing.

[burbs]

I agree to a point, however I'm 42 and quite strong minded but I have felt myself pushed into a corner by a car salesman. It was extremely difficult to get away and I can quite appreciate how easy it is to 'find yourself' signed up to something. Some (but not all!) salesman use the best psychological techniques to convince you, which I suppose is how they get to become top salesmen. I would prefer to see them salaried rather than on commission but I guess at the end of the day, the business needs to make money.

I dont agree at all. I sell all day every day, if i dont sell then i dont make any money. However if i could force people into signing something that they didnt want to then trust me i would be a millionaire. I would have every person who steps through my door signing on the dotted line and i would retire by the age of 25!!

Its not a case of a hard sell, its a case of eyes bigger than your wallet. People want these cars, most of them dont need any persuading. They want the car, they see the figures and they sign away. Then when they drive away all is tasty for the first couple of months, then reality bites and the mess hits the fan.

This is where mummy and daddy come back to me and give me abuse for forcing their beloved into making a purchase. Not only did i force them into signing for the finance i must have also forced them into driving the car away and then forced them into keeping it for a period of time as well.

Get a grip, if people are that undecisive and that easily led then in my opinion they shouldnt be behind the wheel of a motor anyway.

[blue_haddock]

Burbs - i agree wholeheartedly with what you have said. It is always the salesman who gets the blame for this sort of thing and not young tarquin who signed up for everything.

I wish people would realise that we are just doing our job, yes at times we may use a touch of psychology to influence the customer but hey thats what we're paid to do!

[burbs]

Burbs - i agree wholeheartedly with what you have said. It is always the salesman who gets the blame for this sort of thing and not young tarquin who signed up for everything.

I wish people would realise that we are just doing our job, yes at times we may use a touch of psychology to influence the customer but hey thats what we're paid to do!

People seem to think that salesmen are hypnotists!! I wish!!

[chrisw]

Its not a case of a hard sell, its a case of eyes bigger than your wallet. People want these cars, most of them dont need any persuading. They want the car, they see the figures and they sign away. Then when they drive away all is tasty for the first couple of months, then reality bites and the mess hits the fan

Not all the time. I could easily afford it but wanted to shop around first, but they kept juggling the figures - 'surely you can afford an extra £5 a week...'

yes at times we may use a touch of psychology to influence the customer

It was aggressive psychological hard sell I got. I felt like I was being bullied. The only way to get away was to get up and walk out which actually took some doing.

I realise not all salesmen are like this, but if the OPs son came up against the same salesmen I did, I'm not entirely surprised he signed up.

[mrseyes]

thankyou: I take people's point here but i still feel that the salesman has blurred my son with the entire interest rate issue and bullied him into signing.

[tomstickland]

however I'm 42 and quite strong minded but I have felt myself pushed into a corner by a car salesman. It was extremely difficult to get away and I can quite appreciate how easy it is to 'find yourself' signed up to something. Some (but not all!) salesman use the best psychological techniques to convince you, which I suppose is how they get to become top salesmen. I would prefer to see them salaried rather than on commission but I guess at the end of the day, the business needs to make money.
Shape up you wimp!

I enjoy it when salespeople try the hard sell on me. Bit of a challenge. It helps that I don't actually want most of the things being sold.

I never agree to any deal there and then; always walk away and think about it for 24 hours.

[burbs]

Not all the time. I could easily afford it but wanted to shop around first, but they kept juggling the figures - 'surely you can afford an extra £5 a week...'



It was aggressive psychological hard sell I got. I felt like I was being bullied. The only way to get away was to get up and walk out which actually took some doing.

I realise not all salesmen are like this, but if the OPs son came up against the same salesmen I did, I'm not entirely surprised he signed up.

If you could easily afford it what are you whinging about? If you have money then expect the salesman to attempt to sell to you. If you come into my showroom you are there to either waste my time or buy a car, theres no beating around the bush needed.

The easiest thing for anyone that is that feeble to be forced into signing an agreement that they dont want is to avoid these places of obvious danger and stay out of car dealers premises!!!

[chrisw]

I enjoy it when salespeople try the hard sell on me. Bit of a challenge. It helps that I don't actually want most of the things being sold.

I never agree to any deal there and then; always walk away and think about it for 24 hours.

Well I enjoy the challenge too and my wife's always complaining about me being rude to sales people. That's why I think clever psychology was used to make me feel like I was deserting a best friend.

I'm sure there are people who simply change their mind, but I'm just pointing out the other side.

Anyway end of discussion from me - I'm getting wound up thinking about it.

[Ian Griffiths]

People want these cars, most of them dont need any persuading.

Indeed, but thats no reason to sell finance at 20% when the going rate is 10%.

I wouldn't be forced in to anything, and I've little sympathy for people who sign without working out what they're signing, but you must recognise there are car dealers out there doing *terrible* deals, with apparently no remorse at all?

[burbs]

Indeed, but thats no reason to sell finance at 20% when the going rate is 10%.

I wouldn't be forced in to anything, and I've little sympathy for people who sign without working out what they're signing, but you must recognise there are car dealers out there doing *terrible* deals, with apparently no remorse at all?

You run a business to make a profit, thats the whole concept of business.

If i can sell a car for £1,000 profit then im happy, if i could sell the very same car for £3,000 profit then im very happy. Is there remorse for selling over the odds, none whatsoever im afraid.

I explain everything before i allow people to sign up for this very reason, i cant be bothered with all the hassle of people moaning afterwards that they didnt know what they were signing. Once they sign on my dotted line they are very aware of what they are signing and what they are paying. If they agree to that then why should i feel remorse? If they come back to me a few months later complaining that they didnt know what they were doing, again there is no remorse whatsoever. People who are old enough to drive are old enough to make financial decisions for themselves. Im there to close deals and sell cars, not guide people through their financial issues.

[Ian Griffiths]

Im there to close deals and sell cars, not guide people through their financial issues.

You're not wrong :rotfl:

[david29dpo]

look on the bright side, this has taught your son a very good lesson for the future. pity he was not taught it before. he has found out the hard way like lots of people on this site. maybe he will become a better person and more wise in the future.

[alcot33uk]

Burbs is right,

If you came into my showroom and ask about finance I say

The car is X in total, with X deposit and X per month over X months, is that in your budget?

No? then lets work on some figures to get in your budget!!

Yes? Then please sign here!

End of story.