Difference between Retail and On The Road Prices [Archive]

martindow

20-04-2009, 1:16 PM

I'm thinking of getting a Hyundai i10. In their brochure the retail price is 6395 and the on the road 7000 a difference of 705 pounds.

They tell me that this is to cover the cost of registering, number plates, tax and pre-delivery checks. Can I insist on buying at the retail price? Registering a car is 55 pounds, road tax is 35 and number plates can't be much. Wouldn't they check it over anyway? It is not sensible for them to send it out with faults as the warranty covers 5 years.

Anyone with any experience of this?

Lemonade Pockets

20-04-2009, 2:33 PM

No you cannot. Is the short answer.

The difference will be for delivery PDI an plates. Plus as you mentioned RFL and 1st registration fee. I doubt you will want to go and pick it up from the factory. If they don't PDI it the warranty won't be valid. And you (the customer) can't buy plates without a registration document.

N.b I think you have a out of date price guide.
OTR = £7095 and Retail = £6490

vikingaero

20-04-2009, 2:55 PM

The main charge is for the delivery of the vehicle from the factory/importer/compund to the supplying dealer.

The i10 is currently very popular and some dealers sell out of their allocations quite quickly. A few months ago it was one of the few cars being sold in the UK without any discount available. Even on Broadspeed.com it's showing as £534 off (£6,561 OTR)

goldspanners

20-04-2009, 6:02 PM

it might mean a trip to india to collect the car from the factory gates.

martindow

21-04-2009, 7:30 AM

Lemonade Pockets

21-04-2009, 9:11 AM

Tis the industry standard whether it be right or wrong.

I know up until about 18months ago Renault used to include the delivery and pdi costs in the retail price. So OTR road was Retail + RFL + 1st Reg Fee. But they changed too and now price in the same way as Kia. There must be some reason for that but i don't know what it is.

derrick

21-04-2009, 4:05 PM

Lemonade Pockets

21-04-2009, 4:09 PM

As a car has to have all the things mentioned above plus insurance, (not mentioned above), how can they call it an "OTR", when it is not legally "OTR" until insurance is valid? Yet you very rarely buy a car including insurance! Surely as insurance is a legal necessity they should not be able to make the OTR claim unless insurance is included!

???? Not sure i follow your logic here..... but to go with it maybe they should include the cost of driving lessons too!!!

derrick

21-04-2009, 4:16 PM

???? Not sure i follow your logic here..... but to go with it maybe they should include the cost of driving lessons too!!!

My logic is that garages call the price for the vehicle as on OTR, including everything but the insurance, for a vehicle to be sold to joe public as OTR, it should include insurance as otherwise it is not an OTR price.

To mention driving lessons is just plain daft, you have to assume that the purchaser has a licence, be that provisional or full, having said that, you can put a vehicle OTR without a licence as long as it includes tax and insurance, the driving licence only comes into play when it is actually driven.

Lemonade Pockets

21-04-2009, 5:30 PM

My logic is that garages call the price for the vehicle as on OTR, including everything but the insurance, for a vehicle to be sold to joe public as OTR, it should include insurance as otherwise it is not an OTR price.

To mention driving lessons is just plain daft, you have to assume that the purchaser has a licence, be that provisional or full, having said that, you can put a vehicle OTR without a licence as long as it includes tax and insurance, the driving licence only comes into play when it is actually driven.

Tis only as daft as your suggestion. The car will be insured by the dealerships blanket policy regardless of whether the owner has insurance for it at the time of sale. So theoretically for the OTR price it can be driven OTR by anyone covered by the dealerships policy.

Also if IRRC you technically insure the person not the car. (i wait to be shot down in flames about that tho)

goldspanners

21-04-2009, 6:13 PM

As a car has to have all the things mentioned above plus insurance, (not mentioned above), how can they call it an "OTR", when it is not legally "OTR" until insurance is valid? Yet you very rarely buy a car including insurance! Surely as insurance is a legal necessity they should not be able to make the OTR claim unless insurance is included!

when you buy a new car you get a weeks cover from the manufacturer to give you a chance to sort out your own,well ford do anyway. so it is legally on the road.

derrick

22-04-2009, 9:06 AM

Tis only as daft as your suggestion. The car will be insured by the dealerships blanket policy regardless of whether the owner has insurance for it at the time of sale. So theoretically for the OTR price it can be driven OTR by anyone covered by the dealerships policy.

Also if IRRC you technically insure the person not the car. (i wait to be shot down in flames about that tho)

It still is not an OTR price, e.g you walk into a dealership and decide on a car with a £15000 OTR price, sort out all the finance and paperwork, but,(and I have never heard of the dealers blanket policy for customers), you still need to purchase insurance for the vehicle, therefore the OTR is not a true cost as insurance, depending on several factors, could be several thousands of pounds.

AFAIK the car has to have an insurance policy in it's own right to sit/drive on a public road.

when you buy a new car you get a weeks cover from the manufacturer to give you a chance to sort out your own,well ford do anyway. so it is legally on the road.

As I said I had never heard of the manufacturer/dealers blanket policy customers, (and you can only confirm Ford),however as I said above,IMO it is not a genuine OTR priceas insurance for the vehicle will have to be purchased therfore increasing said OTR.

vikingaero

22-04-2009, 9:15 AM

Loads of dealers offer Norwich Unions (Avivas) 7 day free insurance. This allows the car to be taxed NU email a copy of the cover note to the dealer to facilitate this.

derrick

22-04-2009, 9:21 AM

Loads of dealers offer Norwich Unions (Avivas) 7 day free insurance. This allows the car to be taxed NU email a copy of the cover note to the dealer to facilitate this.

But it is still,IMO, a misleading claim, because insurance will have to be purchased, meaning the OTR sticker price is not strictly correct, but it looks like the dealers are getting away with the misleading prices, and until someone makes an official complaint, (that won't be me as I would never buy a new car), we may never know, as that is usually how this type of fact is resolved.

vikingaero

22-04-2009, 11:06 AM

But it is still,IMO, a misleading claim, because insurance will have to be purchased, meaning the OTR sticker price is not strictly correct, but it looks like the dealers are getting away with the misleading prices, and until someone makes an official complaint, (that won't be me as I would never buy a new car), we may never know, as that is usually how this type of fact is resolved.

If you're adamant that insurance should be included in OTR prices then you'll never see identical pricing. OTR pricing including insurance will be cheaper for some and more expensive for the young. Also you'll need the insurance databases from all UK insurers to be connected to dealer networks to obtain a quote - with all due respect that's not realistic. And every dealer you visit will require all your details to be churned out again and again.

What happens if I buy a car and have an existing policy? You want OTR+ Insurance to be given. What happens to my existing policy. Do we cancel it and take out a new policy? That creates double the admin - not efficient or green.

derrick

22-04-2009, 11:13 AM

If you're adamant that insurance should be included in OTR prices then you'll never see identical pricing. OTR pricing including insurance will be cheaper for some and more expensive for the young. Also you'll need the insurance databases from all UK insurers to be connected to dealer networks to obtain a quote - with all due respect that's not realistic. And every dealer you visit will require all your details to be churned out again and again.

What happens if I buy a car and have an existing policy? You want OTR+ Insurance to be given. What happens to my existing policy. Do we cancel it and take out a new policy? That creates double the admin - not efficient or green.

I am not "adamant that insurance should be included in OTR prices", I am saying that unless it is included, then the term should not me used, because without insurance it is not legal on the road.

I agree with what you say, and would suggest that they omit the misleading OTR term, sorted.

If you have an existing policy it will need changing to the new vehicle, so an extra expense to the so called OTR price.

Lemonade Pockets

22-04-2009, 2:06 PM

Hintza

22-04-2009, 2:11 PM

We all know what the OTR price is. It is a bit like asking where all the white goes when snow melts. Take a philosophy course!

Lemonade Pockets

22-04-2009, 2:16 PM

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

goldspanners

22-04-2009, 7:19 PM

Almost On The Road But You Still Need To Buy Insurance

Would this make more sense then?

as others have said most dealers will provide 7 days of insurance,do you want a full year?
insurance varies wildy between driver,so how could your premium ever be included in an OTR price?
common sense should suggest that unless its part of an offer then your insurance will be additional.

Lemonade Pockets

22-04-2009, 7:27 PM

At last i've found the reason Starbuck's put caution HOT DRINK on their cups.

goldspanners

22-04-2009, 7:31 PM

At last i've found the reason Starbuck's put caution HOT DRINK on their cups.

i bet he is even cautious when the cup is empty, as thats what it says.

derrick

23-04-2009, 11:21 AM

The car does not have to be specifically insured to be covered for use OTR.
Dealerships have blanket policies so they can drive part exchanges, customers can take test drives etc etc. Or did you think everytime they took a car in or took a customer for a drive they took out a new policy???

Yes I was aware of that, they could not legally exist if they did not!

Secondly: Renault offer free driveaway insurance too. As do Norwhich union. As do all ford dealers. As do all evanshalshaw dealers. As do all stratstone dealships..........do i need to go on???

No but you do.

I'd file this idea under B 1N if i were you

It never was an idea, it was a question

Just goes to show what a bunch of fools there are on here that take everything that retailers tell us is gospel, it was a fair question to ask, none of the replies are justified, the dealers are conning people, a bit like "DFS's "sale"

I know dealers have block insurance, but that is for them to drive all/most vehicles that are in their possession and customers cars, also for customers to take their vehicles on test drives, if they have these so called 7 day insurance, then as I have said, I was not aware of that, and they do, then that is probably their get out card!

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and mine is that there is a misleading claim with this OTR price when it is actually not!

derrick

23-04-2009, 11:22 AM

common sense should suggest that unless its part of an offer then your insurance will be additional.

It is an implied offer when the headline statement is On The Road price!

Lemonade Pockets

23-04-2009, 11:57 AM

What would you rather call it? Most of the population seems happy with the current format. Also as we have discussed it would be impraticle for a dealer supply 1yrs policy included in the price for all drivers.

I would also suggest that the format for pricing up new cars was probably devised by the advertising standards agency or some other goverment office. So it has absolutely sweet fanny adams to do with dealers conning people.

Lemonade Pockets

23-04-2009, 12:00 PM

Yes I was aware of that, they could not legally exist if they did not!

So why did you right this in a previous post then???

,(and I have never heard of the dealers blanket policy for customers),

And just to be clear they could legally exist they just probably wouldn't do much business.

kitchpoo

23-04-2009, 12:13 PM

OK I won't drive it back from India then.

It is very misleading to quote a retail price at all if you cannot pay that amount. Rather like airline prices without taxes. I thought advertising material had to give actual prices that you need to pay.

Thank you for all the responses.

Some history.....

About 15 years ago, Retail prices were all that were advertised, resulting in people purchasing then discovering this 'hidden' cost of delivery, fuel, inspection, tax, etc etc. Where Trading Standards stepped in to make this OTR price explicitly detailed and advertised. Usually you can break down these costs, take for example you wanted to transfer a private plat to your new purchase from your existing car, you can deduct the fee for the plates, likewise , if you dont fancy paying £1.45 a ltr for the 20ltrs they put in, you can also deduct that (You will usually find the delaer will fumble and throw it in to the deal anyway).

The retail price - IIRC is if you are a company car tax payer - the value your vehicle is liable for it's taxable rate.

Indout96

23-04-2009, 12:14 PM

You do not need to have insurance to have a car on the road, only to use it on the road. Therefore if the Garage park it on the road for you under their policy after you buy it you have your OTR price and it does what it says on the tin.

I must say however that we have never been told by a garage that we have 7 days cover from them (if needed) I assume it is RTA cover only ?

derrick

23-04-2009, 12:19 PM

How many times you fool.

The only fools on here are the one's that assume the offers are legitimate and fall for them!

You do not need insurance to cover that car specifically for it to be either on the road or driven on the road. Even if you did as mentioned to you several times dealers now provide that FOC.

You do if you have purchased it! A vehicle needs to be insured in it's own right to be legal on the road,(private driver).

To rephrase i or anyone else could buy a car and for the OTR price and drive it on the road for no additional cost. So if you are to be pedantic sod and take its literal meaning that base is covered.

No it can't, you will need specific insurance for that vehicle when purchased, ( private driver)!

Does that answer your rediculous question?

No, and it never was a ridiculous question!

I would also suggest that the format for pricing up new cars was probably devised by the advertising standards agency or some other goverment office. So it has absolutely sweet fanny adams to do with dealers conning people.

But you don't know that!You are only "suggesting".
Are you really suggesting that retailers do not try to "con" people, if so you are a bigger fool than I thought!

Might I suggest the spellchecker and some grammar lessons!

So why did you right this in a previous post then???

:confused: Grammar, spelling?

And just to be clear they could legally exist they just probably wouldn't do much business.

Who could?

.

Lemonade Pockets

23-04-2009, 2:00 PM

Right please just take it from me (i used to be a business manager in a dealership)

Let pretend that you bought a new car from me, paid the OTR price. I could then drive the car on the road (i would be covered by the dealerships policy. You also could then drive the car on the road for a short period of time also covered by the dealerships policy. Neither of those two have required you as a customer to buy an insurance policy specific to that car.

There are lots of people that are covered to drive any number of cars by blanket policies - this isn't just restricted the motor trade.

Regarding my "suggestion" kitchpoo has confirmed that it was trading standards that prescribed the format for OTR pricing.

I will take on board your suggestion of grammar and spelling lessons. If only they did common sense lessons then i could make a similar suggestion.

Lemonade Pockets

23-04-2009, 2:05 PM

And just to be clear they could legally exist they just probably wouldn't do much business.

Who could?

Bloody hell your not a rocket scientist are you? The people you where talking about when you posted this

Yes I was aware of that, they could not legally exist if they did not!

Lemonade Pockets

23-04-2009, 2:09 PM

Are you really suggesting that retailers do not try to "con" people, if so you are a bigger fool than I thought!

No i'm not suggesting that at all.

However i and i think most other people will agree that "OTR" is not the scam of century.

derrick

23-04-2009, 2:18 PM

No i'm not suggesting that at all.

However i and i think most other people will agree that "OTR" is not the scam of century.

There you go again, thinking, don't bother. it doesn't suit you!

No it isn't,( but that statement suggests it is a scam), just misleading!

I think this conversation has run out of legs, you have your opinion and I have mine, they just don't gel with each other.

Lemonade Pockets

23-04-2009, 2:23 PM

Ok :)

martindow

25-04-2009, 12:50 PM

Sorry , I seem to have stirred up a hornets' nest here! But thank you for all the replies.

It seems to me that the only use of the retail price is relating to company car taxation. Wouldn't it be best to just have the one price (OTR figure) and then somewhere in the small print put the retail price figure as a company car value for tax purposes? That would avoid all confusion wouldn't it.