The Hospital - on channel 4 at the moment!

[funguy]

Very good documentary on how the NHS is collapsing due to the drunken excesses and irresponsible behaviour of our society these days....

[funguy]

was very interesting actually - amazing to think that 50% of their workload and money spent is related to alcohol excess!....as the consultant said, imagine what all that extra cash could go towards if it wasnt for the irresponsible behaviour of a few!

[VfM4meplse]

The public's expectations of the NHS is so high these days, and it seems that everyone is so ready to make demands to suit themselves. This programme is a useful reminder of what the NHS has to grapple with on a daily basis. The clinicians are total heroes.

[funguy]

I think the public need to really get to grips with what the front line doctors/nurses/police officers have to put up with on a regular basis!!

I think its probably about time drink related incidents were billed directly to the person from the Police service and the NHS!!...so the tab isnt picked up by all of the rest of us!

[shoppaholic returns]

Definately, if it is self inflicted,alcohol etc, they should have to pay for it,or indeed put up the prices of alcohol in these places to cover for the costs of this debauchery.

It was truly disgusting!!

[Bargain Rzl]

Two other episodes to come in the series: one about the teen pregnancy epidemic, and the other about obesity.

[dieselhead]

I have only had one experience of A and E (touch wood) and it was awful. I had plurecy and a chest infection and was struggling to breathe and was very frightened, ( I was a young student and alone). The experience was horrid as the staff were dismissive, I overheard them laughing about me, saying I had over reacted. I felt I was treated with so little compassion as I was young, and all young people were tarred with the same brush. I guess the drunks spoil it for everyone!

[thatsfabulous]

So sad at the end with the young man who died and when the girl had a heart attack and was doing CPR.
Shocking the amount of C*ap the staff must put up with from drunks, such a shame more attention cant be given to sick patients like the doctor said instead its going on people who are dont appreciate it or even need it for that matter.

[mapcr77]

The last woman was shocking, saying it was not a costly night out, as she only spent £20, and even transport was free because the ambulance drove her... She nearly died! Treating her cost thousands of OUR taxpayers' money, yet she couldn't even grasp that??

[funguy]

Maybe there should be charges for all these sorts of medical treatment. With NHS finances struggling, what if the money saved was directed towards cancer treatment etc....I think its outrageous that our tax payers money is spent on 1000s of drunks every night all over the UK!

[thatsfabulous]

The last woman was shocking, saying it was not a costly night out, as she only spent £20, and even transport was free because the ambulance drove her... She nearly died! Treating her cost thousands of OUR taxpayers' money, yet she couldn't even grasp that??
I know I couldnt believe it when she said that. Wasnt she the lady that died for 9 minutes and was given the overdose? Or am i confusing her with another patient.

[mapcr77]

I know I couldnt believe it when she said that. Wasnt she the lady that died for 9 minutes and was given the overdose? Or am i confusing her with another patient.

Indeed that was her... unbelievable, isn't it?

[thatsfabulous]

wow shocking. I hope that when she watched it on the program she relised how much she went through and how silly she sounded saying it only cost £20 etc.

[Sagaris]

The powers that be wouldn't be able to charge them the cost of the treatment unfortunately - and even if the law changed you can bet your life they are all on benefits!

[funguy]

The powers that be wouldn't be able to charge them the cost of the treatment unfortunately - and even if the law changed you can bet your life they are all on benefits!

Yes im sure most of them are! Why do other countries not have these problems? Other countries do not have huge mortality rates because people need to pay for medical care and paramedics will bill you if you are not a genuine emergency!

[mapcr77]

Yes im sure most of them are! Why do other countries not have these problems? Other countries do not have huge mortality rates because people need to pay for medical care and paramedics will bill you if you are not a genuine emergency!

Maybe we need to revise the welfare system in this country, and turn it into a matter of merit, rather than a lyfestyle choice.

[Loopy Girl]

Have to say that I thought the some of the nurse's comments were inappropriate (the one who done most of the talking bits and also saw her at work).

Who is she to judge why a 19 year old hasn't eaten and is on anti-depressants?

I work for the NHS and the one thing we are always told is not to judge - you can try to educate but the way people live their lives shouldn't be up for discussion.

Why should a smoker, for example, be tut tutted for having a chest infection anymore than a person who does extreme sports and comes in fairly regularly with broken/sprained bits? Still a lifestyle choice.

She was absolutely spot on by saying the the way society lives now is a generation thing and has been, and will be, passed on from generation to generation. But that can't be changed.

Quite frankly I think she has been in the job too long and has forgotton her beside manner and is too concerned on passing judgement on the sub classes of society. I hope that some of the people she drily passed comment about on camera complain. I know I sure as hell would.

[teaspoon1]

Loopy Girl - I actually thought she was voicing the thoughts of a lot of NHS staff... I know a few docs and nurses and they are so fed up and demoralised by the lunatic behaviour of some patients, esp those who have been drinking and/or fighting. It's about time someone spoke up about it. It's not right, it's not fair and it's depriving others of vital resources. Just think what could be done if hospitals didn't have to treat violent drunks every weekend. And what is a 19-year-old doing on anti depressants! Seriously.

[arunadasi]

I work for the NHS and the one thing we are always told is not to judge - you can try to educate but the way people live their lives shouldn't be up for discussion.

Why should a smoker, for example, be tut tutted for having a chest infection anymore than a person who does extreme sports and comes in fairly regularly with broken/sprained bits? Still a lifestyle choice.

She was absolutely spot on by saying the the way society lives now is a generation thing and has been, and will be, passed on from generation to generation. But that can't be changed.

Quite frankly I think she has been in the job too long and has forgotton her beside manner and is too concerned on passing judgement on the sub classes of society. I hope that some of the people she drily passed comment about on camera complain. I know I sure as hell would.

While I agree that medical staff shouldn't judge their patients, I do believe that the general society actually needs to be judging MORE rather than less . We've come to regard all behaviours as equal in value: we should not judge smokers, they have as much right to smoke as the athkete; promiscuity as a lifestyle choice is just the same as fidelity, etc etc etc. All opinions, too supposed to be of equal value, nobody is "righter" than anyone else... there is no wisdom anywhere, not even common sense.

It's a mistake. A grave mistake. There has to be a gold standard in lifestyle choices otherwise all of society goes haywire. As we can see.

Societies that DO have a gold standard don't have these problems.
Freedom is not the same as licence.

I may be terribly non-PC in saying that but I dont care because I am 58 and don;t give a fig for PC-speak:p

[melancholly]

i remembre a Jack Dee sketch from years ago, where at the entrance to A&E you should have to say what your injury was and then it would be rated on a stupidly scale (or something along those lines). people would be treated based on this stupidity (he tells it much better!). obviously not a practical solution, but it does rather sum up how lots of us feel about stupid behaviour and the health service..... ;)

[VfM4meplse]

Quite frankly I think she has been in the job too long and has forgotton her beside manner and is too concerned on passing judgement on the sub classes of society.

Sub-classes? Is that not a judgement??

[razorbladekisses]

Have to say that I thought the some of the nurse's comments were inappropriate (the one who done most of the talking bits and also saw her at work).

Who is she to judge why a 19 year old hasn't eaten and is on anti-depressants?

I work for the NHS and the one thing we are always told is not to judge - you can try to educate but the way people live their lives shouldn't be up for discussion.

Why should a smoker, for example, be tut tutted for having a chest infection anymore than a person who does extreme sports and comes in fairly regularly with broken/sprained bits? Still a lifestyle choice.

:T Well said. Exactly what I thought as well.

And what is a 19-year-old doing on anti depressants! Seriously

I've been on anti-depressants since I was about 19/20. You don't know what goes on in peoples lives to start questioning it.

I felt it was totally inappropriate for that nurse/Doctor to judge that girl because she was on anti-depressants and had not eaten. There were obviously reasons for this but a professional person should not act so judgementally. A Doctor/nurse is there to treat and help people.

[vixarooni]

i felt the same about that doctor too. It made me wonder why she was doing the job in the first place.

[Loopy Girl]

Loopy Girl - I actually thought she was voicing the thoughts of a lot of NHS staff... I know a few docs and nurses and they are so fed up and demoralised by the lunatic behaviour of some patients, esp those who have been drinking and/or fighting. It's about time someone spoke up about it. It's not right, it's not fair and it's depriving others of vital resources. Just think what could be done if hospitals didn't have to treat violent drunks every weekend. And what is a 19-year-old doing on anti depressants! Seriously.

But we can't stop drinking and fighting and drugs can we? So what is the answer? I don't know. But I do know that a nurse rolling her eyes and speaking the way she was speaking about a patient in front of a TV camera was wholly unacceptable and breaches the Patient Charter.


Btw...I'm not a nurse but I do work in educating children and adults in 'challenging' areas so know how easy it is to judge. The hard part is trying to make a difference and change generations of 'normality' or certainly what they perceive as normal. I speak to parents who are drunk, smacked out their head, speeding out their head - do I stand there and tut tut under me breath and think I am better (like that nurse did about the majority of the patients) than them? No, I am paid to do a job and if I don't like it then I know where the door is. These people know if I can't be bothered with them - much like I would know if I was a patient of that nurse.

And I don't know what a 19 year old was doing on them...maybe she had been abused her whole life, maybe she just lost a parent/baby, maybe she is coming off drugs....do you know what? It doesn't matter. That girl's GP has prescribed them and a nurse is challenging that decision?

[Loopy Girl]

Sub-classes? Is that not a judgement??

Not from me. From the nurse on the programme actually as that is what she called them.

[VfM4meplse]

Completely inappropriate and not something the NMC would approve of methinks.

[funguy]

I agree it is inappropriate to comment on the medication and eating habits of the patient....

However, the majority of comments made on the programme are likely to be representative of the way the majority of NHS staff feel about the repeated abuse of the system by the lifestyle excesses and stupidity of people! I fail to see why the general taxpayer has to consistently pick up the bill (from police, NHS and other social services) for people who go out and get completely drunk and then walk out in front of cars, fight in streets and damage their own bodies!?!....If they are on benefits and cant pay the bill then im afraid it might have to be taken from their benefits at source!....maybe that will teach them not to do the same next weekend and the one after that and the one after that!........

[razorbladekisses]

I agree it is inappropriate to comment on the medication and eating habits of the patient....

However, the majority of comments made on the programme are likely to be representative of the way the majority of NHS staff feel about the repeated abuse of the system by the lifestyle excesses and stupidity of people! I fail to see why the general taxpayer has to consistently pick up the bill (from police, NHS and other social services) for people who go out and get completely drunk and then walk out in front of cars, fight in streets and damage their own bodies!?!....If they are on benefits and cant pay the bill then im afraid it might have to be taken from their benefits at source!....maybe that will teach them not to do the same next weekend and the one after that and the one after that!........

What about the people that end up in hospital because of smoking, those that have developed diabetes because of obesity e.t.c should we bill them too? I know some people will say it's different, but is it really, it's still a lifestyle choice.

[arunadasi]

Drunkenness is not an illness and so so should not be treated at all; it's a deliberately induced state of mind, unlike cancer, diabetes etc; ie. drunkenness is in itself the desired goal, unlike the above illnesses. They should be sent to a recovery cell somewhere nasty, lie in their own vomit for a few hours, or cared for by ther own relatives.
Broken bones etc that come as a consequence of drinking, I suppose, would have to be treated.

[VfM4meplse]

I really believe Liam Donaldson has got it right here, if the population refuses to use alcohol responsibly then it should be priced out of the reach of the majority and seen as a luxury item. The alcohol industry could be transforming the country by shifting it's focus to address unmet health needs, there is still a good profit to be made here. Maybe then the NHS could truly turn it's attention and resources to the prevention of illness.

[vixarooni]

Drunkenness is not an illness and so so should not be treated at all; it's a deliberately induced state of mind, unlike cancer, diabetes etc; ie. drunkenness is in itself the desired goal, unlike the above illnesses. They should be sent to a recovery cell somewhere nasty, lie in their own vomit for a few hours, or cared for by ther own relatives.
Broken bones etc that come as a consequence of drinking, I suppose, would have to be treated.

ok so what if i was a person who didnt turn to alcohol when times got bad and i turned to food instead? Over time i would become obese and probably bring on diabetes...maybe have a heart attack because of my clogged aterys... or maybe a stroke. The list is endless, most people who come in drunk are probably sent home or in extreme cases get their stomach pumped. Otherwise i suppose its treating the injuries caused by being drunk which you said was ok to treat. I don't think you can say drunkeness should not be treated because its not a disease. Unfortunatly it does cost us all money, but im sure the NHS does a fine job in chucking money down the drain without drunk people involved.

[vixarooni]

personally i think our universities are to blame for the alcohol culture we have, and the pubs surrounding the universities ranking in the money from students.

I do disagree with you there vmf4, the thing i hate more than anything in this world is when people have to lose out because of someone elses actions. Why shouldnt i be able to buy alcohol at a reasonable price just because others go beserk on it. Im no angel, i get drunk, i probably will do on monday but i have never once been sick, been involved with the police or caused criminal damage by my drunk actions, so why should i have to pay over the odds for something just because others abuse it?

[melancholly]

personally i think our universities are to blame for the alcohol culture we have, and the pubs surrounding the universities ranking in the money from students.

sadly i think the problem with alcohol starts well before many teenagers are old enough to get to uni (not that university lifestyles help, but they aren't the root cause of the problem!)

[Loopy Girl]

What about the people that end up in hospital because of smoking, those that have developed diabetes because of obesity e.t.c should we bill them too? I know some people will say it's different, but is it really, it's still a lifestyle choice.

Every single person on the planet has some kind of lifestyle choice that may make them need the NHS.

You could be the healthiest person alive (don't drink, smoke, eat well etc etc) and go yomping up the hills every week for the 'fresh clean air'. All it takes is one slip and you need air ambulanced off the hill and medical treatment.

Going on other comments then this person should pay for treatment surely? His choice to go up the hills...same as another person's choice to drink?

I fail to see the difference. No one can say they live a perfect life and no one should be exempt from NHS treatment.

A poster commented earlier that money spent on drunks could be used for cancer treatment. Still feel the same if the cancer sufferer smoked 40 a day and had been told 20 years ago to stop but didn't? Or the sun worshipper who could afford several foreign holidays a year and had skin cancer? Or the breast cancer that was caused by excessive drinking?

See what I mean? You can't say that one person deserves treatment more than an other especially when the service was set up to treat all.

[Loopy Girl]

I really believe Liam Donaldson has got it right here, if the population refuses to use alcohol responsibly then it should be priced out of the reach of the majority and seen as a luxury item. The alcohol industry could be transforming the country by shifting it's focus to address unmet health needs, there is still a good profit to be made here. Maybe then the NHS could truly turn it's attention and resources to the prevention of illness.

But the Goverment won't do that as they will lose the huge revenue generated by alcohol.

Same with cigarettes - we keep getting told how bad they are for us and pictures getting printed on the packets. Millions and millions getting spent to promote stopping with the help of the NHS.

Why don't they just ban them? Because of the revenue that's why. Yes the NHS would be able to spend more time on other things if cigs and alcohol were banned but there would be no nurses to do it as the budget would be drastically cut as there was no revenue from them.

I'm not one of those people (and I am a smoker) who bleats about the 'tax I pay could pay for a hospital wing' yaka yaka but I do beleive in the fact that I live in the UK and am therefore able to access the NHS for whatever reason I need it - and I firmly believe that should be the same for every single person that has access to it too.

[funguy]

The NHS is never going to afford to continue treating the increasing obesity/alcohol/smoking related illnesses if they continue to rise at current levels. This is in additon to all the other stuff obviously that the NHS provides....I think we are rapidly looking at a full or partial insurance based system where alcohol/smoking and weight will be taken into account before working out your monthly premiums! This is probably the only true way of people being charged according to their lifestyle choices.....if you choose a healthy lifestyle, your premiums will be low....if you choose an unhealthy one, your premiums will be high!....

[arunadasi]

The NHS is never going to afford to continue treating the increasing obesity/alcohol/smoking related illnesses if they continue to rise at current levels. This is in additon to all the other stuff obviously that the NHS provides....I think we are rapidly looking at a full or partial insurance based system where alcohol/smoking and weight will be taken into account before working out your monthly premiums! This is probably the only true way of people being charged according to their lifestyle choices.....if you choose a healthy lifestyle, your premiums will be low....if you choose an unhealthy one, your premiums will be high!....

It's the only fair way, as well.
I really don't see why people with healthy lifestyles should have to support heavy drinkers/smokers/junk food gluttons.

[HelenYorkshire]

Broadly speaking, that sounds like a good plan to me.
BUT - define a "healthy lifestyle"? Like was said earlier - is the athlete coming in with sprains and strains somehow "better / more deserving" than the person who was prescribed steroids and has shot up in weight / obesity?

Nothing is ever black and white.

Having worked in the NHS previously, I would say that a lot of these negative, sweeping comments by staff coe about through frustration, understaffing, long hours, lack of appreciation, so on and so forth.
I haven't done nursing / direct care but after 12 hours with no breaks I'd be cursing the next teen drunk to come through the doors.

I wish I had a better idea for the whole thing :/

PS - the old "on benefits" argument can also fall down - esp in cases where someone is too ill to work so has the double whammy of needing more care on a lower budget.

[funguy]

this week's programme is on now!...

[funguy]

Just shown a female who is high risk for c-section but she wont listen to anything the consultant is telling her as she knows better!! Never mind the issue that she is grossly overweight and continues to smoke during her pregnancy too.......absolutely ridiculous!

[dmg24]

Just shown a female who is high risk for c-section but she wont listen to anything the consultant is telling her as she knows better!! Never mind the issue that she is grossly overweight and continues to smoke during her pregnancy too.......absolutely ridiculous!

At first I thought I had tuned into Harry Enfield ... was that not Waynetta Slob?! She had a phobia to needles, yet had several piercings!

[alison999]

She had a phobia to needles, yet had several piercings!

LOL I was LMAO over her (quite sad really) how the consultants kept straight faces i dont know!

but i liked it at the end where she kind of admitted that they were right - id love them to revisit some of these mums in a year to see wherr theyre at and how much theyve matured, id also like to see them cringe watching themselves on this programme!!

[fannyannie]

Not all teenage mums are like them, i hate these type of programmes that make them out to be.

[Bargain Rzl]

Not all teenage mums are like them, i hate these type of programmes that make them out to be.
Yes, but it's a series about the young people who - through excessive drinking, unprotected sex or obesity - create a drain on the NHS and other social resources.

Why would they show the ones that don't?

And not all the mums on the programme were portrayed negatively, other than having been irresponsible enough to get pregnant very young and without a stable relationship. We all did stupid things in our teens, it's just that some people's teenage mistakes have more serious and far-reaching consequences than others. The girl who had the water-birth seemed articulate and fairly bright and I couldn't see why she wouldn't be a good mum - but she was still a valid subject for the programme, as a teenage single mum.

[UKTigerlily]

Loopy Girl - I actually thought she was voicing the thoughts of a lot of NHS staff... I know a few docs and nurses and they are so fed up and demoralised by the lunatic behaviour of some patients, esp those who have been drinking and/or fighting. It's about time someone spoke up about it. It's not right, it's not fair and it's depriving others of vital resources. Just think what could be done if hospitals didn't have to treat violent drunks every weekend. And what is a 19-year-old doing on anti depressants! Seriously.


Umm maybe because they have an illness called Depression? I was on them at that age & have Bipolar Disorder, so should I have not been treated for being 19? So many people think Depression is impossible in rich & famous people, or young people when it's a damn illness & not something we CHOOSE! Things like this make me sooooooooo mad, so what if a 19yr old had Cancer or another serious illness, would you be saying that too?