VW Touran ABS/ESP Recall? VW's Ticking Timebomb!

[andy8442]

As seen on this forum and many others, VW have a very common and dangerous fault with their family car, the Touran. A sensor fails in the ABS control unit, leaving the car without the ESP function. The brakes still work but occording to VW dealerships the ABS unit could fail, and is infact an MOT failure.

Unfortunately the fault is occurring mainly on 3 year and older cars, just out of warranty, so then you have to battle for financial help from VW. But thats an whole other thread.

VW are replacing the unit with a new "improved" version, which says alot. They wouldn't "improve" it for no reason.

Why then are they not recalling these cars? And how do we go about making them do it?

It's the braking system at fault! What on earth are they waiting for?

[andy8442]

1............................................

[andy8442]

Whoops sorry, just trying to edit.

[Hintza]

It's the braking system at fault! What on earth are they waiting for?

From what you say the brakes still function so not huge issue.

I think you know the answer. It would cost them too much to issue a recall.

Bit like Clio bonnets methinks.

[andy8442]

Yes, you're right but why should they be able to get away with it. Wasn't the downfall of Firestone a similar case, where Ford and Firestone decided to forego a recall, then cars started flipping and people started dying, and it being the States, lawyers started sueing.

[hewhoisnotintheknow]

yup, one of the many know faults on a VW

But hey, people are still being brain washed about how good they are!

[LinasPilibaitisisbatman]

Yes, you're right but why should they be able to get away with it. Wasn't the downfall of Firestone a similar case, where Ford and Firestone decided to forego a recall, then cars started flipping and people started dying, and it being the States, lawyers started sueing.

1) The ESP and ABS failing is hardly catastrophic considering cars survived without them for decades

2) It seems to be an issue with parts wearing early, not being dangerous

3) There is no reason to replace them until it becomes an issue

Ideally they would recall them but they may feel its not worth the hassle and cost and deal with them as they become an issue. People far more intelligent than you will have made that decision

Oh and if we didnt improve things unless they were faulty we wouldnt have stuff like broadband or ESP, ABS etc.

[harveybobbles]

We do them all the time. We replace the module with a second hand, tested one. Even if VW offer 50% it still worked out dearer than fitting 2nd hand...

[andy8442]

1) The ESP and ABS failing is hardly catastrophic considering cars survived without them for decades

2) It seems to be an issue with parts wearing early, not being dangerous

3) There is no reason to replace them until it becomes an issue

Ideally they would recall them but they may feel its not worth the hassle and cost and deal with them as they become an issue. People far more intelligent than you will have made that decision

Oh and if we didnt improve things unless they were faulty we wouldnt have stuff like broadband or ESP, ABS etc.


The car is now an MOT failure, so the Ministry of Transport think its important enough to work correctly.

[andy8442]

Just trying to get it read again!

[harveybobbles]

If you get the fault code read it will normally tell you one of the rear ABS sensors is faulty, but it'll be the module. Told you what to do in the PM :)

[bluewuss]

Like many others my ESP fault came on after 3 years and 1 week. VW are still refusing to pay fully but are prepared do the work for £ 600. As it appears that other Touran have this fault how do we get VW to admit they have a known safety problem and at least pay the full cost of this replacement?

[tourandave]

My Esp light is on, Going to the dealers tommorow for diagnosis. I am hoping for a VW goodwill payment as out of warranty dealer advised it was a common problem.

[andy8442]

Hi, I've contacted Watchdog about this and they are preparing something on this topic, I'm also drafting letters to all the major motoring mags. It's all over the web is this fault. My own rough little poll suggests 80% failure on pre 07 models!

What are VW waiting for? Somebody to crash and be hurt?

[harveybobbles]

Yeah, a bit like Audi were with their shitty CVT boxes circa 2001/2002

[LinasPilibaitisisbatman]

The car is now an MOT failure, so the Ministry of Transport think its important enough to work correctly.


Yes but that doesnt mean they were dangeerous throughout.

By your reckoning every car on the road is dangerous as the law of logics means all are likely to be in a condition they would fail an MOT at some point.

The cars are no more a ticking timebomb than any other on the road.

[tomstickland]

ABS and ESP are not critical. I've never owned a car with them.

[andy8442]

ABS and ESP are not critical. I've never owned a car with them.

The unit that has failed controls the whole braking system. I would say that what quite important!

[LinasPilibaitisisbatman]

The unit that has failed controls the whole braking system. I would say that what quite important!


No it controls the ESP/ABS. The brakes still work.

[hewhoisnotintheknow]

do a protest on saturday morning in the dealership about it, all the thickos with their clapped out cars will be in there wanting their 2k off a stupidly priced car on finance, that will buck the dealer up

[andy8442]

I would but the dealership went bust earlier this year! I'm aiming higher with this anyway, total collapse of the VW empire!..... No not really, just maybe get them on Watchdog.

[negg]

You are stating that the ESP does not work and that the ABS could fail? But it hasn't failed yet?

ESP is non-essential, ABS is only essential inasfar as getting an MOT - if it fails, the brakes still work like an older car without ABS.

I had a Mercedes pass several MOTs when the ESP was faulty, but the ABS still worked. There is no danger to the car in that state, but still it can be a little annoying with the light on the dashboard!

If your ABS has stopped working (try an emergency stop on a quiet road to see if the car skids which would mean that the ABS is not working - from about 15 to 20mph to a standstill and press the pedal hard!). If that has stopped working then you will need a replacement.

Remember the ESP is not an MOT failure, whereas ABS is for a four year old car.

[LinasPilibaitisisbatman]

Exactly wait until they fail and then it gets fixed.

Why would VW spend millions replacing a part that might fail a bit earlier than normal which isnt dangerous.

The parts would need replaced at some point in time regardless.

[andy8442]

Whatever your feelings about ESP/ABS, surely you agree that the failure of a major component in thousands of family cars is worth more than a shrug of the shoulders. VW are asking for £1500 off their customers for a part that should last more than a few years and 20k.

[HatRak]

First post, so hi!
Reading this thread with interest due to my 55 plate Golf coming back with the same fault diagnosed today. Had it 6 months and they also pointed out that the main catalyst is on it's last legs and break disks are badly rusted.
Pointed out that these faults take more than 6 months to develop and got the response from the sales manager, I'm a printer to trade not a mechanic!
A Clarkes..need i say more? Waiting for a response from VW.
I noticed on the VOSA website that the VW ABS fault seems to have been around for a few years. Go have a look.

[molerat]

Discs and cat can develop in less than 6 months so I don't think you have much of a case there.

[HatRak]

I'm not sure i do either, but i'm going to push it.

Are VW conceding in most ABS claims at the moment, or does it seem to be the ones just out of warranty?

[andy8442]

Hi, just spoke to VOSA and they will only look into this fault if they know about it, so if you've had the fault please fill in the Safety Defect Reporting form by following this link. http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/

[saeedt]

Hi, (first post)
Had my Touran (07/2005 45K) for 3 months and last month the ESP light came up. VW says it will cost £1500 to fix. The VW customer care centre may contribute up to 50%. If the VW garage that serviced the car contribute (eg: 10%) then the VW will match with another 10%. But there is definitely a design fault, and I was told with the warning light on it is a MOT failure! Mine is due in June! My local dealers are not helpful. The servicing garage Citygate in London have not given me an answer yet (it is a week since I got in touch with them). I do not know if these are repairable but there are second hand units for sale about £350 then you have to pay to have it fitted! I have filled in the VOSA form. I am contacting the Trading Standards as this is the braking system and should not fail after only 3 and a half years. I am also thinking of making a claim in Samll Courts Claims.

[lovevdub]

My 06 Golf petrol 1.4s just 6 weeks over warranty and 15500 miles has now got permanent esp light on. VW dealer will charge up to £89 for diagnostic. I will ask VW for a goodwill payment for repairs if any needed.

[hewhoisnotintheknow]

My 06 Golf petrol 1.4s just 6 weeks over warranty and 15500 miles has now got permanent esp light on. VW dealer will charge up to £89 for diagnostic. I will ask VW for a goodwill payment for repairs if any needed.


i have a golf, its total !!!!!, i would start trying to reject it, i am

[lovevdub]

Is it better to ask VW direct (over the phone) or write a polite letter asking for goodwill payment for repairs. or let the VW dealer ask.

cheers

[anton1888]

My Touran is now 3 years and 4 weeks old so no warranty left. ESP warning light came on two days ago, the cost of £1500 to fix the problem is making me ill!!!!!

[harveybobbles]

Tell VW that you have been ill and unable to contact them for the last 5 weeks and see if what they come back with.

[lovevdub]

VW will not make a goodwill payment for ABS pump as I have car serviced at vw specialist and not main dealer .they say I have not shown any brand loyalty. Not likley too seeing how much they charge for service. First service £260 against £99 at specialist for same service.No brand loyalty for me now.

Thankfully I am covered by warranty direct.

[J400uk]

I had this problem too and wrote into Watchdog about it. Its simply not on that VW are refusing to recall, the level of customer care from VAG these days is shocking. The title of this thread is a little misleading though, the problem affects all cars sharing the same platform as I have seen Golfs and Golf Pluses with it, as well as Audi A3s.

Another problem it may present from a traders point of view, is buying these cars out of manufacturers warranty will be risky because there is a chance of having to spend mega bucks fixing the ESP problem before selling the vehicle on, so thus residuals will worsen as traders will have to take this into account when bidding at auctions.

[lovevdub]

New pump fitted abs and traction now working but garage cannot get the cars computer to recoginse new pump. car is still in road test mode despite several road tests. abs and esp light still on. have to take it back in again. apparently vw say this could take many attempts to get right.

[andy8442]

Just thought it was time to get this thread up and running again.

[harveybobbles]

..................................

[guss]

Just happened to my 2006 gt tdi . Dealer diagnosed that abs unit faulty and needs replaced thankfully 4 mths of warranty left so covered. The service manager told me it was a £1500 job. They have no parts left in uk so will have to wait for parts from germany. Clearly its a common problem which vw should be dealing with by a recall. But ill not hold my breath!!

[techytim]

Thats a good way not to get thier help.Dont forget the dealer didnt build the car VW did! Its about time people stopped treating dealers as a free public service.They are a buisness the same as any other and do alot of good work for less than you think.Take a look around and see how many have gone out of buisiness trying to resolve the manufacturers problems, who by the way dictate all sorts of rules to the dealers.
Also name calling doesnt get anyone anywhere,a little respect might be a better approach.

[harveybobbles]

The dealers represent the mfr, so really, the dealer should try harder with customer complaints/goodwill... If the dealers down try hard enough then the customers will go else where. Which in turn could see dealerships closing...

[andy8442]

Thats a good way not to get thier help.Dont forget the dealer didnt build the car VW did! Its about time people stopped treating dealers as a free public service.They are a buisness the same as any other and do alot of good work for less than you think.Take a look around and see how many have gone out of buisiness trying to resolve the manufacturers problems, who by the way dictate all sorts of rules to the dealers.
Also name calling doesnt get anyone anywhere,a little respect might be a better approach.

The dealers are often the only point of contact with the manufacturers, so if you have a problem or complaint you are well within your rights to walk in there and give them what for. You can be sure you've paid enough in over priced servicing to have that right!

And as for respect? You're having a laugh? We have had 8 VW/ Audis in the last 13 yrs, always serviced them, always been very loyal and good customers to VW. But the way we were dealt with when our Touran's ABS unit failed was absolutely appalling. 32k on the clock , 3 months out of warranty, no goodwill payment offered. Reason? The dealership we bought that and two other brand new VW's from had gone bust, taking with them all our legal rights as a consumer. So VW saw a quick and easy way out with us and took it. Respect? Well VW didn't show any. Why should I?

[hewhoisnotintheknow]

unreliable, over priced, keep clear

[techytim]

If your service history is up to date and from a genuine vw dealer then the good will system from vw is honoured at any dealer,although a dealer may not want to contribute also if you have had the car serviced elsewhere.A dealer service costs more because the correct approved parts are fitted and while your car is in any software updates or product enhancments are automaticly carried out at no extra charge.This can prevent any further problems from developing which may not become apparent until the car has changed hands.

[bmw3]

Hi this is a problem with the abs / esp module made by Continental Teves, model no MK60. It is also used in the BMW 3 series and 1 series from 2005 onwards. I you do a search you will see that they are also having plenty of failures along with the other VAG group cars such as Skoda.

There is an obvious manufacturing defect here and this needs to be addressed by a recall. But at over £1500 per car it will cost a lot to put right!

[hartcjhart]

try grouping an email together and send it to the C.E.O. of VW his direct email is below

martin.winterkorn@volkswagen.de

[harveybobbles]

try grouping an email together and send it to the C.E.O. of VW his direct email is below

martin.winterkorn@volkswagen.de

you can make the word "vvanker" from his name...

[andy8442]

try grouping an email together and send it to the C.E.O. of VW his direct email is below

martin.winterkorn@volkswagen.de

Thanks a lot for that little address, I've been searching for it for sometime now.

[andy8442]

If your service history is up to date and from a genuine vw dealer then the good will system from vw is honoured at any dealer,although a dealer may not want to contribute also if you have had the car serviced elsewhere.A dealer service costs more because the correct approved parts are fitted and while your car is in any software updates or product enhancments are automaticly carried out at no extra charge.This can prevent any further problems from developing which may not become apparent until the car has changed hands.

We met all of the above requirements but they (VW) still told us to do one. Look around on the internet and you will find I'm not alone in my dealings with VW on this matter.

The dealership you work at (VW I assume) may be honest and kind, but not all are, particularly when working alongside VW customer services.

[tech2]

Hi All

Why dont you also contact the SMMT (society of motor manufactures and traders) and 5th gear and top gear also.

I will investigate this a little more and post again.

:D

[hewhoisnotintheknow]

the sooner people realise that VW do good marketing but overpriced dodgy cars / after sales the better

[techytim]

sorry to hear there are some dealers not helping with this.We bend over backwards to help and satisfy our customers,often working for free.VW put alot of pressure on dealers to help out with goodwill and often dealers have to foot the bill themselves rather than risk thier reputation so i am sadened to hear there are some who dont.however this loyalty should be a 2 way thing.rest assured there are many good Vw dealers out there who are also trading standards approved.

[hartcjhart]

Thanks a lot for that little address, I've been searching for it for sometime now.


my pleasure got it from a handy website,
here are some tips from the site

Some tips when e-mailing:

Be polite
Keep the information concise and to the point
Include customer reference numbers or invoice numbers, if applicable
Include a brief history of the issue, if applicable
Do not accept being passed back to "Customer Services" or elsewhere within the organisation
Insist on a reply from the CEO
If you're working as part of a campaign group, send a personal, individually-created letter. Letters which are cut/pasted from a standard template will invariably receive a standard template response in reply... Good luck with your enquiry!

[andy8442]

sorry to hear there are some dealers not helping with this.We bend over backwards to help and satisfy our customers,often working for free.VW put alot of pressure on dealers to help out with goodwill and often dealers have to foot the bill themselves rather than risk thier reputation so i am sadened to hear there are some who dont.however this loyalty should be a 2 way thing.rest assured there are many good Vw dealers out there who are also trading standards approved.

Yes I do agree loyalty should be a two way thing. 8 VWs and Audis, all new ,from dealerships, all serviced at said dealerships in the last 12 years. Now thats what I call brand loyalty.

Thats my half of the deal, where's VW's?

Actually if there's a manufacturer listening who would like that kind of brand loyalty, we have two VWs to part ex, and are looking for a small MPV and a large MPV.

[cjrich]

My ESP light came on this week and of course VW dealer wants £500 to fix with the discount. Until looking on here I didn't realize that without the ABS (this isn't working they told me today) that it would fail on MOT. Where does this leave me if I get stopped by the Police (not intending on but it still may happen)? Is the car classed as road worthy?

[wallofbeans]

im interested in getting a used touran but this abs thing has me worried... is there a way i can be sure that a used touran will not have this problem??

[goldspanners]

im interested in getting a used touran but this abs thing has me worried... is there a way i can be sure that a used touran will not have this problem??

buy something else. or haggle the deal taking into account this might come up in the future.
but be aware all other cars will have a common fault on them aswell,and might cost more than it does to fix this problem.

[harveybobbles]

Well that just about sums up the more "senior" people at VW...

[mrbgturner]

Hi

I see from the thread that you can repair the ABS control unit for a Touran? Can you please quote me a price to fix this, the warranty on the repair job please and where your garage is ?

Regards
Brian Turner

[Dave__]

My 2006 Audi A3 has this exact same problem, it happened like most other when the car was just over three years old. VAG have been less than useless in their attitude.