The depressively optimistic moneysaving thread

[absolutebounder]

This thread is for those who want to use the power of thought to move from a dark place to a brighter future.
lack of money and feeling worthless is depressing but it can be overcome.
This thread is for those who want to debate new thoughts and ideas. It is not in opposition to the depression support thread but might not be for those who believe internet hugs are all thats needed for support. This is for those who feel a little bit stronger and can take some constructive criticism.
Please do not discuss medication or treatments and please do not be nasty or rude. by all means disagree but do it with respect and preferably if you disagree with someone say why and put forward your arguments in a nice adult manner.
Just for openers Why do some people feel they cant move on because they feel like a failure

[alison99]

Thanks for starting this thread AB, I've missed your posts over the last week, as I've said before, you keep me sane. I'm very pro active in fighting my depression, I like to poke fun at myself, I'm also open to new ideas and welcome any input.
I have found a few unethical ways of dealing with my feelings, I won't go into them here, but they work for me.


What I don't do well is virtual hugs and that, I find these kind of things have a negative effect on me, so no hugging me ok :p

[Space donkey]

Great Idea AB. I want to challenge myself to do more and be happy again. Ooh Alison Im dying to know what an unethical way of dealing with feelings is. Do share if its not breaking rules:D

[alison99]

Great Idea AB. I want to challenge myself to do more and be happy again. Ooh Alison Im dying to know what an unethical way of dealing with feelings is. Do share if its not breaking rules:D


Ummm, best not say that here, as I'm sure it would be breaking some rule or another.
This thread sounds like it's tailor made for me. I'm not a touchy feely type of person and other people's sympathy just depresses me more, even though I know they mean well, I'm the problem, not them.
I want someone who challenges me to help myself, because if I don't change my own life, how can I expect anyone else to do it for me.
So come on AB, I'm ready for you :p

[Sssssss]

good post AB, without knocking the other depression post which by the way was a real support to me last year, I also feel I'm now at a stage where I need to be challenged and need to move to the next level where only I can help myself.

I will post more later but am too knackered now having done another 12 hour day, but hey I passed my 2 month trail period and now have my contract :)

[Sssssss]

Thanks for starting this thread AB, I've missed your posts over the last week, as I've said before, you keep me sane. I'm very pro active in fighting my depression, I like to poke fun at myself, I'm also open to new ideas and welcome any input.
I have found a few unethical ways of dealing with my feelings, I won't go into them here, but they work for me and anyone is free to PM me to discuss them, although I would never suggest anyone does anything I do.

What I don't do well is virtual hugs and that, I find these kind of things have a negative effect on me, so no hugging me ok :p

ok PM on it's way, I need to know, no but seriously I'm dealing with some tough issues at the moment and dealing with some real dodgy people so at times we have to play them at their own game.

[alison99]

ok PM on it's way, I need to know, no but seriously I'm dealing with some tough issues at the moment and dealing with some real dodgy people so at times we have to play them at their own game.
Hi Sssssss, I've sent you a pm, but as you can see I was a little vague. After coming to my senses, I realised that my coping techniques are a little too out there and have decided not to spill the beans, sorry, I'm such a tease ;)

[absolutebounder]

Hi Sssssss, I've sent you a pm, but as you can see I was a little vague. After coming to my senses, I realised that my coping techniques are a little too out there and have decided not to spill the beans, sorry, I'm such a tease ;)
Coping mechanisms are sometimes best because if you cant escape the cause of the depression then you can reduce its effect.
In my original post I put a question about feeling a failure which was just a common example that comes up a lot with depressed people. Now we all have beliefs and some of those are very strongly rooted in our unconcious. but remember if its a belief it basicaly is something that has never actually been proved to us so what happens if someone comes along and shoots that belief to bits in such a way that the unconcious can no longer hold on to it. in other words what happens if some one feels a failure? The first question is in what way are you failing? or failure compared to what? Then if you convince that person they are not a failure at all they will change. ive simplified it a bit but hopefully you get the idea. For example the most famous hypnotist around the UK is Paul Mckenna even though he is hardly ever here so compared to him Im a failure but I dont see it that way. I get sucess, Im happy and Im not bald so my brain finds it impossible to latch on to the failure idea. Even if I fail to hypnotise someone (yes it happens to all of us) I am still a sucess as I have gained new knowledge.

I think Sssss knows what I am on about after his dispute with his boss he has realised he doesnt have to take crap all the time.

Ssssss
good post AB, without knocking the other depression post which by the way was a real support to me last year, I also feel I'm now at a stage where I need to be challenged and need to move to the next level where only I can help myself.


There is no attempt on this thread to knock the depression support thread. This is more a compliment to it than anything else in that here we will help those like Alison who see pity and sympathy as patronising. Some people like it some dont simple as that. By helping people stay or get back into work should help with money and reduce the effects as well. being off sick is actually quite expensive especially with prescriptions etc.

[*Chattie*]

This thread is for those who want to use the power of thought to move from a dark place to a brighter future.
lack of money and feeling worthless is depressing but it can be overcome.
This thread is for those who want to debate new thoughts and ideas. It is not in opposition to the depression support thread but might not be for those who believe internet hugs are all thats needed for support. This is for those who feel a little bit stronger and can take some constructive criticism.
Please do not discuss medication or treatments and please do not be nasty or rude. by all means disagree but do it with respect and preferably if you disagree with someone say why and put forward your arguments in a nice adult manner.
Just for openers Why do some people feel they cant move on because they feel like a failure

I take it you mean debate your thoughts and ideas and I assume you mean your contruction criticism isn't nasty or rude :rolleyes:

I think you'll find that Discussion Time is further down the board and please don't patronise the users by wrapping up your hypnosis treatment as a method of saving money to keep this discussion on this board.

[beachbeth]

I take it you mean debate your thoughts and ideas and I assume you mean your contruction criticism isn't nasty or rude :rolleyes:

I think you'll find that Discussion Time is further down the board and please don't patronise the users by wrapping up your hypnosis treatment as a method of saving money to keep this discussion on this board.

I don't think your post is of help to anyone.

If you don't like AB or agree with his point of view then you don't have to be reading this thread. If he isn't breaking forum rules then he is allowed to have discussions with people whether it is about money, depression or simply which flowers look prettiest in a vase.:p

[beachbeth]

what happens if some one feels a failure? The first question is in what way are you failing? or failure compared to what? Then if you convince that person they are not a failure at all they will change.

I personally feel I am a failure because I used to work and earn money as well as looking after my two girls and husband. Then depression came along and I tried:

1. Ignoring it and hoping it would go away
2. Getting angry and fighting it and hoping it would go away
3. Giving in to it and getting treatment from the doctor and hoping it would go away

I struggled back to work so many times because Im not a sciving so and so who is happy to live off benefits and because I want to set a good example to my children and make my husband proud of me.

People think a thread about depression has nothing to do with moneysaving when, in fact, it does because depression is stopping me working and earning money. We could be paying our mortgage off in no time if I was able to work. Therefore I need help to rid myself of depression and also find out how to work our money better.

Im fed up with struggling with depression and fed up with people coming onto threads like this and attempting to disrupt discussions when they don't understand what we are all trying to do. :(

[gentlepurr]

Hello :)

Hope you dont mind if i join you in this thread. I'm lucky, i dont usually find myself getting "down" very easily, but im home atm with a broken leg and torn ligaments, and in a cast from hip to ankle, trying hard to keep myself feeling upbeat, despite all the issues running round in my head: - coping as a single parent, wondering where the money will come from because ive only got three weeks sick pay, wondering if i will still be able to get away on the holiday thats booked for JUne cos stupidly i "hadnt got round to" sorting the holiday insurance out......

Anyway, this isnt a "woe is me", but one thing that has really helped me is that each day i write down ONE THING that has made me happy, it doesnt matter how small it is, eg, seeing cheery blossom on a tree, the cat curling up on my lap and purring, a friend popping round, my sons telling me he loves me, or hearing kids enjoying themselves, it made me focus on the good instead of the bad. Im sorry if that sounds like a huge sweeping idealistic statement, but its helped me, and if it only helps one other person then ive helped someone else too.

gp xx

[gentlepurr]

BTW, good thread ab

xx

[beachbeth]

I agree, gentlepurr. Ive had one thing after another go wrong this year and Im desperately trying to focus on the good things, eg my family, the funny antics my dogs get up to, eating a nice meal or watching a feel good film etc. It isn't all bad - my OH has been given a £600 a year pay rise. Some people haven't even got a job so I think we should count our blessings. I have had some sad and upsetting things happen over the past couple of months though and this can cloud how you see life.

[Sssssss]

I take it you mean debate your thoughts and ideas and I assume you mean your contruction criticism isn't nasty or rude :rolleyes:

I think you'll find that Discussion Time is further down the board and please don't patronise the users by wrapping up your hypnosis treatment as a method of saving money to keep this discussion on this board.

just one word 'RESPECT' for the OP, the post and those who post here

okay a few more words

if you don't like it click here...... <IGNORE>

[absolutebounder]

I take it you mean debate your thoughts and ideas and I assume you mean your contruction criticism isn't nasty or rude :rolleyes:


Any psychologist will tell you sarcasm is a defence mechanism. perhaps if you told us what you were hiding from we could help you. On the other hand I accept you may not be ready to discuss your problems in which case please dont disrupt this thread and feel free to come back when you are ready.

[absolutebounder]

I personally feel I am a failure because I used to work and earn money as well as looking after my two girls and husband. Then depression came along


Why are you a failure. Plenty of parents cant bring up their own children to be nice decent human beings. i think depression has stopped you being selfish in denying your husband the opportunity to be the sole breadwinner and feel like a real man. You might find that depresssion is your bodys way of telling you to be a great parent instead of trying to be a bit of everything.
Compared to most parents a good parent is a success not a failure. Sorry but you have failed to pass my failure test:D

[absolutebounder]

Hello :)

Hope you dont mind if i join you in this thread. I'm lucky, i dont usually find myself getting "down" very easily, but im home atm with a broken leg and torn ligaments, and in a cast from hip to ankle, trying hard to keep myself feeling upbeat, despite all the issues running round in my head: - coping as a single parent, wondering where the money will come from because ive only got three weeks sick pay, wondering if i will still be able to get away on the holiday thats booked for JUne cos stupidly i "hadnt got round to" sorting the holiday insurance out......

Go to DSS office and ask a benefits adviser what you are entitled to. It may be more than you think

Anyway, this isnt a "woe is me", but one thing that has really helped me is that each day i write down ONE THING that has made me happy, it doesnt matter how small it is, eg, seeing cheery blossom on a tree, the cat curling up on my lap and purring, a friend popping round, my sons telling me he loves me, or hearing kids enjoying themselves, it made me focus on the good instead of the bad. Im sorry if that sounds like a huge sweeping idealistic statement, but its helped me, and if it only helps one other person then ive helped someone else too.

gp xx
Hi and thanks for joining because highlighted in red is precisely what I was looking for from this thread. Great idea

[sjaypink]

oooh, youve been moved ab....

i like your thoughts here. its important imho to be able to get different perspectives no matter how uncomfortable they might be.

[absolutebounder]

oooh, youve been moved ab....

i like your thoughts here. its important imho to be able to get different perspectives no matter how uncomfortable they might be.
Im dying to know who and why it was moved

[Bayblue]

*edited*

Apols- got the wrong end of the stick about the purpose of this thread.

[Quasar]

ab. I shall ask Martin to let me thank you a thousand times, if you can use your OP to work a miracle on a certain (ex)student who shall remain nameless... ;)

[meher]

Why do some people feel they cant move on because they feel like a failureThoughts. Those thoughts, perhaps, need to be challenged and should be open to be challenged. This is one of the reasons why thoughts are examined thoroughly in Eastern philosophies that say that what we think is what we become.

[alison99]

Found you all, bet you thought you could hide from me!
I often have negative thoughts, but I try and banish them by replacing them with something pleasant that is happening in my life instead, so although I still need the AD's at the moment, I'm hoping that through positive thought and coping techniques, this depression won't have me beat again.
PS, I would also like to know why this thread was moved. Nice way to make us feel like outcasts. :eek:

[absolutebounder]

ab. I shall ask Martin to let me thank you a thousand times, if you can use your OP to work a miracle on a certain (ex)student who shall remain nameless... ;)
Now Q I know Im good but not THAT good. You can lead a horse to water and all that but SP is like leading a camel that filled up at the last water hole to water:rotfl:

[absolutebounder]

Thoughts. Those thoughts, perhaps, need to be challenged and should be open to be challenged. This is one of the reasons why thoughts are examined thoroughly in Eastern philosophies that say that what we think is what we become.
I quite agree. We can learn a lot from other philosophies. healthy debate is good but it is often stifled here on DT. I originaly did not post this thread on DT because I dont think its the right place but it appears that someone has not read the thread and just moved it for the sake of it.
Certain illnesses are more prevallent in the west and so yes I agree that thought has a lot to do with sickness and so we should challenge malignant thought in a way they do elsewhere. our lives would be richer for it.

[aliasojo]

What I dont 'get' is how you can think good positive thoughts if you are depressed to start with?

I've never understood how some people all of a sudden 'find God' halfway through their life when they've been complete aethiests previously. I once asked a minister this and his answer was that (in his opinion) some people genuinely woke up one day and simply felt different. They attributed this to God coming into their life. Others woke up one day and decided they wanted their life to change and they simply chose to believe. It was a conscious decision and once they started saying they were going to believe, it eventually became self fulfilling and they did end up believing.

I'm not sure if I've explained that well, but the point I'm trying to make is that making a decision to believe in God is one thing but if a person is so low that all they feel is sadness and despair, where are they going to get the one happy thought from in the first place to start them off on a new path of being more positive, iyswim? They cant just decide to say they will think more positively if all they feel is screaming the exact opposite?

To me that seems like asking a non swimmer to swim 2 lengths of the local pool. You can teach a non swimmer to swim, but how to you teach a depressed person to be happy if their whole outlook is bleak?

I do believe in the power of positive thinking, I just dont understand how a very depressed person whould be able to employ this when the very nature of depression means their emotions and thoughts are not blanced. :confused:

I'm not talking about just 'fed-up' peeps here btw.

[meher]

I quite agree. We can learn a lot from other philosophies. not just from philosophies, I recently read somewhere that literature too is used a lot to construct their accounts and not simply reflect on it - so it seems the art of communication with clients and narration of events will help everyone concerned to see the situation feelingly

that said I only meant to speak about the make-up of a healthy mind, I don't understand how a person who has been seriously depressed over a long period of time could be helped with just talking therapies

[absolutebounder]

What I dont 'get' is how you can think good positive thoughts if you are depressed to start with?

I've never understood how some people all of a sudden 'find God' halfway through their life when they've been complete aethiests previously. I once asked a minister this and his answer was that (in his opinion) some people genuinely woke up one day and simply felt different. They attributed this to God coming into their life. Others woke up one day and decided they wanted their life to change and they simply chose to believe. It was a conscious decision and once they started saying they were going to believe, it eventually became self fulfilling and they did end up believing.

I'm not sure if I've explained that well, but the point I'm trying to make is that making a decision to believe in God is one thing but if a person is so low that all they feel is sadness and despair, where are they going to get the one happy thought from in the first place to start them off on a new path of being more positive, iyswim? They cant just decide to say they will think more positively if all they feel is screaming the exact opposite?

To me that seems like asking a non swimmer to swim 2 lengths of the local pool. You can teach a non swimmer to swim, but how to you teach a depressed person to be happy if their whole outlook is bleak?

I do believe in the power of positive thinking, I just dont understand how a very depressed person whould be able to employ this when the very nature of depression means their emotions and thoughts are not blanced. :confused:

I'm not talking about just 'fed-up' peeps here btw.

Good post and I know what you are saying. sometimes non swimmers discover they can swim by falling in the deep end. whether they do 2 lengths or just get to the nearest side is debateable but nevertheless when push comes to shove and all that.

Now Im afraid if people think I believe you can just think a happy thought and be better you are way off the mark. No kids are born with low self esteem or depression (sorry to the geneticists but this fact rather messes up the depressive gene theory). people get the stuffing knocked out of their self esteem by life , events and environment. the mere fact that you have gone in one direction to me does not mean that that cannot be reversed.
as you pointed out with your religious example beliefs can change overnight and that happens when the unconcious is no longer able to hold on to its original belief.
many people beliefs are founded on 100% accepting a nominalization. this is a word that is an abstraction like in my OP the word failure. You cant go to someone and ask for a bucket of failure. many people believe thay are failures when in reality they only failed at one or two things but their belief is they are a failure 100%.
Next problem is that if you believe something strongly enough you are likely to invoke the law of attraction and that belief may come true for you. It is a fact that hypochondriacs have more illness than normal.
Shatter the underlying belief of failure and positive thinking comes in to its own.

[beachbeth]

Im dying to know who and why it was moved

Wasn't me.:confused:

I do believe in the power of positive thinking, I just dont understand how a very depressed person whould be able to employ this when the very nature of depression means their emotions and thoughts are not blanced

I didn't think that changing the way I thought could help my depression or anxiety and I certainly didn't believe a book could help me either. However I bought a book by Claire Weekes, Self Help for your Nerves. This book stopped me having panic attacks believe it or not!

[Oldernotwiser]

I've never understood how some people all of a sudden 'find God' halfway through their life when they've been complete aethiests previously. I once asked a minister this and his answer was that (in his opinion) some people genuinely woke up one day and simply felt different. They attributed this to God coming into their life. Others woke up one day and decided they wanted their life to change and they simply chose to believe. It was a conscious decision and once they started saying they were going to believe, it eventually became self fulfilling and they did end up believing.



It might be easier to understand if you thought of it as God finding them.

[aliasojo]

It might be easier to understand if you thought of it as God finding them.

But then I would have to believe in God in the first place to believe this was a possible?

Anyway don't want to make this thread into a religious debate :) I just used that as an example of what I was trying to get across.

[aliasojo]

I didn't think that changing the way I thought could help my depression or anxiety and I certainly didn't believe a book could help me either. However I bought a book by Claire Weekes, Self Help for your Nerves. This book stopped me having panic attacks believe it or not!

Actually, I can understand how something just clicks sometimes. Something in that book must have triggered some sort of understanding or realisation in you that previously wasn't clear or to the fore for whatever reason.

Mmm...maybe I've just answered my own point above about God. :think:

[Oldernotwiser]

Many, many years ago when I was in my mid twenties I was suffering from what I realise now was a deep depression, although the diagnosis wasn't made so readily at that time. I decided to catch the bus to visit my parents for the weekend and during the one hour journey it suddenly occurred to me that I could go to university rather than carrying on in the boring job I was doing.

By the end of the journey the depression had lifted completely and didn't return (or not for several decades), even though it took me eighteen months to finally achieve my aim.

I'm not sure what point I'm making here, but just thought I'd retell my experience.

[Space donkey]

Wow found you lot at last. which nutter moved the thread :confused:. This is becoming a real inspiration to me.
I like oldernotwisers story about university. I have been low and depressed with feelings of rejection for sometime but the more I think about it I realise it is just the way I think I feel, rather than being true. Although I feel rejected the only person who rejected me was my boyfriend but I still have other people in my life.

[sjaypink]

What I dont 'get' is how you can think good positive thoughts if you are depressed to start with?
i also think a part of the problem can be that glimmers of hope or positive thinking which can occur without realising really in a depressed person are dismissed so quickly its almost as if they didnt occur.

my personal opinion is that this is either because that acknowledging such moments of hope whilst in a dark place can lead to a chain of thoughts leading to guilt often: wow, i felt ok just then, maybe i can think about that thing/ do that activity/ speak to that person more often.... but its my choice to do those things to help me get better- therefore was it my choice to let myself get/ stay ill? you can see on the previous page here- the outlet of anger at the suggestion that there may be even some control over depression...

ive seen that a lot. as soon as someone suggests (eg starting this thread) depression is something which can be improved by the power of thought, the suggestion then is also that is worsened (caused) by the power of thought too. thats often too much for sufferrers to accept- therefore the idea that is a disease which will only pass when 'it' is ready, and could return at any point, is an attractive one in some ways.

thing is, there is no 'blame'. it is was it is. also, (just my opinion) it probably arrived for a particular reason, and did you some good in the short term- i think in a lot of cases depression is a defence mechanism/ coping strategy. thing is with all such reactions- they formed to protect us from a partiular issue, in a particular time in our life. if we are to grow and move foward and enjoy life we need to learn to recognise when they are no longer helping us, and so try to learn a new way of living/ interacting/ thinking, and leave our old outdated reactions behind.

[Space donkey]

my personal opinion is that this is either because that acknowledging such moments of hope whilst in a dark place can lead to a chain of thoughts leading to guilt often: wow, i felt ok just then, maybe i can think about that thing/ do that activity/ speak to that person more often.... but its my choice to do those things to help me get better- therefore was it my choice to let myself get/ stay ill? you can see on the previous page here- the outlet of anger at the suggestion that there may be even some control over depression...


I didnt understand how people can say we chose depression until my therapist asked me who did chose it then? I realsied if no one else chose it it must have been me in some way as you say a type of defence mechanism.

[sjaypink]

Wow found you lot at last. which nutter moved the thread :confused:. This is becoming a real inspiration to me.
I like oldernotwisers story about university. I have been low and depressed with feelings of rejection for sometime but the more I think about it I realise it is just the way I think I feel, rather than being true. Although I feel rejected the only person who rejected me was my boyfriend but I still have other people in my life.
also in my experience to analyse the little things you say to yourself, or in conversation with others. often so subtle you dont notice at ll- but every little thing you think/ say is affecting your mood and spirit.

eg- a common one: 'when he said that to me last week, it made me feel rejected'

no one can make you feel anything.

'when he said that to me last week, i felt rejected'

saying both those things out loud should show you the very different feeling to each.

the first is a solid statement. there is no control over what leads on from that (except maybe 'it really made me feel like sh!t' etc etc), beause you have already defined your position, and also therefore given up control over your feelings. you are telling yourself that if someone else makes you feel bad, only they can make you feel good again.

the second is very different. you are acknowledging your own feelings, which is good, but there is control in that statement, and therefore choice. so, you felt like that last week, but what do you choose to feel today?

hope that makes some sense, because it really has made a big difference to me.

[Quasar]

I'm fortunate in that I have a natural predisposition to be cheerful. However I also go through phases of less than Pollyanna-style feelings, when some problem bugs me. My bizarre technique for getting out of the doldrums is as follows:

Looking at the seemingly hopeless situation from all angles I ask myself: is there ANYTHING I can do?

Suppose the answer is no. Then I ask myself the following questions?

what is the worst thing that can happen out of this?
Can I live with this?
What will be the consequence of this?
Can I live with this?

And so on

I invariably reach a point where the problem is not as awful as it appeared at first, as old saying from back home constantly reminds me: only death cannot be remedied.

[absolutebounder]

I invariably reach a point where the problem is not as awful as it appeared at first, as old saying from back home constantly reminds me: only death and studentphil cannot be remedied.
Corrected for accuracy

sjaypink
therefore was it my choice to let myself get/ stay ill?

maybe it is good the thread was moved if you said that on the old depression support thread you would have been lynched:rotfl:

[Quasar]

Corrected for accuracy


PMSL :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[ameliarate]

I suffered from depression a few years ago and as I started to get better I reached an in between point when I felt it was almost better to be depressed because it was easier to give into it than to fight it. Fortunately I did get better.

Sometimes now I find my mood can drop very quickly and I have to force myself to get back up and refuse to become depressed, which can be hard work sometimes. (I wish I could the same willpower to stop smoking but that's a different thread).

One of the things I learned from my depression is that actually I am quite a nice person and don't deserve horrible things happening to me in fact I deserve good things and I try to remember that when my mood drops now. I remind myself how awful it was being seriously depressed and make myself look at whatever it is causing my mood to drop and find a way to stop it so that I can pick my mood up again.

A bit gibberish but I think the gist is clear.

[pukkamum]

My biggest defence against depression is how i look.
I spent all my adult life looking bad and feeling bad.

I was severely overweight and made no effort with my appearance at all, i would get out of bed throw on the first thing i saw brush my teeth have a wash and that was me done and i wondered why i felt so down when every time i looked in the mirror i hated what i saw.

I then had a very honest talk with my DH i was once again bemoaning my weight and how it was the cause of everything that was wrong with my life.
He had previously been the sort of husband to tell me i was beautiful, not fat etc etc.
However, this time he turned to me and said "you know you're fat, i know you're fat, i still love you i still fancy you and i think you are gorgeous, but if it makes you this unhappy then do something about it!".
For me this was a turning point, i went to weightwatchers and lost 6 stone it wasn't easy but i did it.
However losing the weight didn't make my depression go away as i thought it would i felt happier with my weight but still depressed.
I was still getting up in the morning feeling like cr*p.
Until i started making an effort with how i looked.
I started putting on make up and wearing my 'best' clothes during the week and i liked what i saw when i looked in the mirror every morning and looking good in the mirror went a long way towards feeling good inside.
I would have a spring in my step knowing that i looked the best i could and that i had nice clothes on.
It also gave me the confidence to go to toddler groups with my son and mingle with the mums without feeling like the 'poor relation' so i now have more friends than i ever had which in turn lifts my spirits.
It's lovely when i come downstairs and DH says how lovely i look and i know he isn't saying it just to be nice.
Now i'm not saying that all people with depression need to do is put make up on and some posh clothes i'm just telling you one of the tools i use to keep the dark at bay.

[Sssssss]

Im dying to know who and why it was moved

now AB the negative is going to wonder why it was moved, whilst AB the positive is going to say hey what the hell at least they didn't delete it ;)

see even I can look on the bright side of things.

[poorly scammo]

I've found that for me, sugar is the devil's spawn. It really seems to bring me down. If I stay away from it, then I find I feel a lot better.

Unfortunately, no chocolate eggs for me on Sunday but seeing as I haven't had any sugar anyway, I don't feel too bad about that! :D

[absolutebounder]

I've found that for me, sugar is the devil's spawn. It really seems to bring me down. If I stay away from it, then I find I feel a lot better.

Unfortunately, no chocolate eggs for me on Sunday but seeing as I haven't had any sugar anyway, I don't feel too bad about that! :D
Thats an interesting one. Chocolate usually has a calming effect on women as it releases nice calm brain chemicals. have you tried diabetic chocolate?

[beachbeth]

Thats an interesting one. Chocolate usually has a calming effect on women as it releases nice calm brain chemicals. have you tried diabetic chocolate?

That must be why Im so short tempered then. Im not that keen on chocolate and don't eat a lot of it! Im eating M&M peanuts at the moment though but its more for the nuts than the choc!:p

[absolutebounder]

What does all this mean? You're all talking in code. DT, SP,PMSL???? Its a conspiracy to get rid of me I know it! Now Im even more depressed.:p

Ive worked out that DT is Discussion Time but don't know what the others are. Who is studentphil?:o
Ha Ha we'd love you to stay. i will interpret for you PMSL = p'd myself laughing SP = studentphill just have a look at a few of his woe is me threads and you will realise on a comparative scale you are in a permanent state of elation rather than depression.
And yes DT is discussion time. It can be a scary place which is why I didnt want the thread moved but hey we are a nice bunch here and all the fights are just play. Stop around and have fun.

[poorly scammo]

Thats an interesting one. Chocolate usually has a calming effect on women as it releases nice calm brain chemicals. have you tried diabetic chocolate?

I have problems with all sweeteners. They really affect my mood. If I avoid them I feel cheerier and less tearful.

The therapist helps too of course.

[beachbeth]

Stop around and have fun.

Ok, if you insist.:D

[absolutebounder]

Ok, if you insist.:D
Are you feeling better about being a specialist parent yet and giving your hubby the freedom to do man things like be a breadwinner.

[jayII]

Thank-you AB, a great thread!

I also don't often get down, but sometimes life is just a tad overwhelming. At those times a hug sometimes helps, but what I really need to do is give myself a shake and do something pro-active, rather than dwell on the issues.

I'm fortunate in that I have a natural predisposition to be cheerful. However I also go through phases of less than Pollyanna-style feelings, when some problem bugs me. My bizarre technique for getting out of the doldrums is as follows:

Looking at the seemingly hopeless situation from all angles I ask myself: is there ANYTHING I can do?

Suppose the answer is no. Then I ask myself the following questions?

what is the worst thing that can happen out of this?
Can I live with this?
What will be the consequence of this?
Can I live with this?

And so on

I invariably reach a point where the problem is not as awful as it appeared at first, as old saying from back home constantly reminds me: only death cannot be remedied.


Thanks Q. :AThis is exactly what I needed to hear tonight. :rolleyes:

[Quasar]

Thank-you AB, a great thread!

I also don't often get down, but sometimes life is just a tad overwhelming. At those times a hug sometimes helps, but what I really need to do is give myself a shake and do something pro-active, rather than dwell on the issues.




Thanks Q. :AThis is exactly what I needed to hear tonight. :rolleyes:



Awwwww, not in the doldrums are you? :o

[jayII]

Awwwww, not in the doldrums are you? :o

I'll survive. :o

I'll be better soon, it's just part of life. :cool:

Thanks.

[beachbeth]

Are you feeling better about being a specialist parent yet and giving your hubby the freedom to do man things like be a breadwinner.

Yes Im quite smug!:p

[gentlepurr]

I suffered from depression a few years ago and as I started to get better I reached an in between point when I felt it was almost better to be depressed because it was easier to give into it than to fight it. Fortunately I did get better.

Sometimes now I find my mood can drop very quickly and I have to force myself to get back up and refuse to become depressed, which can be hard work sometimes. (I wish I could the same willpower to stop smoking but that's a different thread).

One of the things I learned from my depression is that actually I am quite a nice person and don't deserve horrible things happening to me in fact I deserve good things and I try to remember that when my mood drops now. I remind myself how awful it was being seriously depressed and make myself look at whatever it is causing my mood to drop and find a way to stop it so that I can pick my mood up again.

A bit gibberish but I think the gist is clear.

I think realising the point highlighted above is halfway to being able to concsiously trying to overcome it.

I have a friend who is really low, and no matter what i try to say or do to help she is powerless to pull herslef away from the easy option of always doing or feeling how she has always felt. The happy list (see my previous post) she cant do because "nothing ever happens to make me happy" yet i can tell her lots of things that have made her happy and she will agree that these things have made her happy, but she cant see anything good in her life for herself. I dont know, maybe she will find her lightbulb moment, maybe i am being presumptuous in trying to help her find it, but its as if she is just totally beyond doing what she has always done, - yet she is desperate to "do something" and its finding that magic key that unlocks that secret place.....

[aliasojo]

Coping mechanisms are sometimes best because if you cant escape the cause of the depression then you can reduce its effect.

Can I ask about this please?

What if what is largely causing a person's depression/low mood etc is also stopping a person from employing coping mechanisms for both practical and emotional reasons? Or if a person's choice of coping mechanism of dealing with their despair is actually harming them in other ways?

I'm wondering if there are indeed situations where there just are no suitable coping mechanisms and this is where anti depressants come in?

[Kimberley]

I wish this was the case for every single thread.

please do not be nasty or rude. by all means disagree but do it with respect and preferably if you disagree with someone say why and put forward your arguments in a nice adult manner.

[absolutebounder]

Can I ask about this please?

What if what is largely causing a person's depression/low mood etc is also stopping a person from employing coping mechanisms for both practical and emotional reasons? Or if a person's choice of coping mechanism of dealing with their despair is actually harming them in other ways?

I'm wondering if there are indeed situations where there just are no suitable coping mechanisms and this is where anti depressants come in?
Peoples coping mechanisms are often harmful eg smoking but this is because of amisunderstanding of the unconcious which serves to protect you, however it sees the mechanism as a way of protection. No one doesnt know smoking is harmful but people carry on because it takes them away from something which to the brain is worse eg stress though this is of course a false belief as smoking actually increases stress.
What particular copimg mechanism are we talking about. Could you enlighten us a bit more?

[absolutebounder]

Yes Im quite smug!:p
Lets get your tribunal out of the way first:D before I make you feel too good about yourself

[beachbeth]

Lets get your tribunal out of the way first:D before I make you feel too good about yourself

Its preying on my mind the whole time - Im just trying to push it to the back of my mind. Im terrified they won't reinstate my benefit. :(

[absolutebounder]

Its preying on my mind the whole time - Im just trying to push it to the back of my mind. Im terrified they won't reinstate my benefit. :(
Try not to worry about something that hasnt happened yet because it may never happen so all that worry is wasted on un nesesary misery. yes we can all fear the worst but the worst rarely happens. why not prepare for the best

[beachbeth]

Try not to worry about something that hasnt happened yet because it may never happen so all that worry is wasted on un nesesary misery. yes we can all fear the worst but the worst rarely happens. why not prepare for the best

I think by fearing the worst then it won't happen. I feel that if I think "its fine, everything will be ok" then Im tempting fate and it won't be ok! Ive got my MP backing me up and Im hoping this will help though.

[absolutebounder]

I think by fearing the worst then it won't happen. I feel that if I think "its fine, everything will be ok" then Im tempting fate and it won't be ok! Ive got my MP backing me up and Im hoping this will help though.
This could be where you go wrong as you are probably invoking the law of attraction. (http://www.law-of-attraction-info.com/)
This basically means if you think the worst it is more likely to come about.
Dont ask me how it works I just know it does.

[jayII]

This could be where you go wrong as you are probably invoking the law of attraction. (http://www.law-of-attraction-info.com/)
This basically means if you think the worst it is more likely to come about.
Dont ask me how it works I just know it does.

But what about being comfortable and open about outcomes, either way? I know that when I have a challenge to face, I can reduce my nervousness by relaxing my expectations. Like assuming I have an equal chance, either way, of boing offered a job following an interview.

[absolutebounder]

But what about being comfortable and open about outcomes, either way? I know that when I have a challenge to face, I can reduce my nervousness by relaxing my expectations. Like assuming I have an equal chance, either way, of boing offered a job following an interview.
Is that a concious relaxation of expectations or an unconcious one. we can all think well I might not get the job so it doesnt matter if I dont but that thought is likely to be self fulfilling. If you dont get the job you should think that thats one less interview befor you do get a job.
yes some people set the bar too high but thats a different story.

[tattycath]

Hi all. Just thought I'd pop in and give my two-penneth worth.
I'll start at the beginning-condensed version. I had a c**p childhood and in my childhood & teenage years was abused and got very depressed. Inwardly depressed, outwardly I was the same happy-go lucky person everyone thought they knew. Towards the end of my teenage years I had a breakdown and had to spend a couple of weeks in hospital -depression, border line anorexic etc etc.
In my early 20s I met and lived with a guy (for 10 years), we have 2 children. He treated my badly - physical violence and mental cruelty etc etc to the point where I felt totally worthless and worse than useless.
There came a point when I decided I wasn't going to be a victim any more and I started to focus on the positives-admittedly there were far more negatives than positives to start with. I persevered and focussed on the positives - now the positives outweigh the negatives. I still feel 'down ' at times but I don't get depressed because I sense when I'm losing (In my head) and I refocus and know that tomorrow will be better (iyswim)
Sorry I'm rambling now but that is how I cope.
HTH

[jayII]

Is that a concious relaxation of expectations or an unconcious one. we can all think well I might not get the job so it doesnt matter if I dont but that thought is likely to be self fulfilling. If you dont get the job you should think that thats one less interview befor you do get a job.
yes some people set the bar too high but thats a different story.

It's a conscious relaxation of expectations. I've found it a good strategy for reducing my awful nervousness. But I'll bear your advice about 'one less interview' in mind.

[Quasar]

It's a conscious relaxation of expectations. I've found it a good strategy for reducing my awful nervousness. But I'll bear your advice about 'one less interview' in mind.

A pillar of Eastern thought is detachment from outcomes. This does not mean outright indifference, but requires the exercise of non-attachment to the result of one's actions, ie. you do what you have to do and don't invest the outcome with excessive emotional energy. So that if things work out, fine, if they don't there is always another opportunity and you can immediately think of the next move.

I know that it's much easier said than done, particularly for urgent cases of job hunting and things like that, but really getting nervous and anxious does NOT increase prospects and in fact may well scupper them. Equanimity is very hard to gain, but the effort brings huge benefits in terms of peace of mind, clarity (and therefore effectiveness) of thinking and the noticing of unusual opportunities that would have gone unnoticed.

ETA later for typos.

[amistupid]

I find writing things down, no matter how painful, can help restore positive thinking. It helps stop things churning endlessly in your mind. It is a coping technique that can stop you spiralling deeper into depression and negative thought.

[jayII]

A pillar of Eastern thought is detachment from outcomes. This does not mean outright indifference, but requires the exercise of non-attachment to the result of one's actions, ie. you do what you have to do and don't invest the outcome with excessive emotional energy. If things work out, fine, if they don't there is always another opportunity and you can immediately think of the next move.

I know that it's much easier said than done, particularly for urgent cases of job hunting and things like that, but really getting nervous and anxious does NOT increase prospects and in fact may well scupper them. Equanimity is very hard to gain, but the effort brings huge benefits in terms of peace of mind, clarity (and therefore effective) of thinking and enjoyment of the little things that so often go unnoticed.

Thanks Q, that's exactly what I aim for, albeit less consciously, and without the philosophical background. I did the same throughout my degree when faced with presentations, etc. Relaxing my expectations does help me.

Luckily my job-hunting isn't urgent, and won't become so for a year or two, so this is the perfect time to practise/learn equanimity. I just have to discover how!:o

[Quasar]

Thanks Q, that's exactly what I aim for, albeit less consciously, and without the philosophical background. I did the same throughout my degree when faced with presentations, etc. Relaxing my expectations does help me.

Luckily my job-hunting isn't urgent, and won't become so for a year or two, so this is the perfect time to practise/learn equanimity. I just have to discover how!:o


Well the way I do it is described in post #39. It may not work for you in the same "format", but you will get an idea how to adapt it to suit your particular psychological make up, as you certainly don't lack the intelligence to do so. :)

[tattycath]

Another thing I have discovered on my journey is that every set back makes you a stronger person and every life experience makes us the person we are today-so I'm turning negatives into positives-it helps me.

[jayII]

Another thing I have discovered on my journey is that every set back makes you a stronger person and every life experience makes us the person we are today-so I'm turning negatives into positives-it helps me.

I feel the same tattycath, on the whole, everthing is a learning experience.

[beachbeth]

This could be where you go wrong as you are probably invoking the law of attraction. (http://www.law-of-attraction-info.com/)
This basically means if you think the worst it is more likely to come about.
Dont ask me how it works I just know it does.

I keep thinking about how things will be after the tribunal. I'll be so much happier when its all over. If they reinstate my benefit then great. If they don't then, even though I will no longer have the benefit, I also can say goodbye to the Jobcentreplus and will no longer have them on my back, which will be a relief. (For anyone who has never had benefits, believe me they don't leave you alone, always getting you to fill things in or see this person or that!) So life should be better once its all over - Im just dreading the actual day.

The trouble with being optimistic and trying not to let the tribunal get me down is that, if they see a relaxed and happy me (which I couldn't pull off no matter what I did anyway!) then they will think Im well enough to work. I need to let them see the real, panicky and anxious me which is how I normally am.

Hope this makes sense.

[absolutebounder]

I keep thinking about how things will be after the tribunal. I'll be so much happier when its all over. If they reinstate my benefit then great. If they don't then, even though I will no longer have the benefit, I also can say goodbye to the Jobcentreplus and will no longer have them on my back, which will be a relief. (For anyone who has never had benefits, believe me they don't leave you alone, always getting you to fill things in or see this person or that!) So life should be better once its all over - Im just dreading the actual day.

The trouble with being optimistic and trying not to let the tribunal get me down is that, if they see a relaxed and happy me (which I couldn't pull off no matter what I did anyway!) then they will think Im well enough to work. I need to let them see the real, panicky and anxious me which is how I normally am.

Hope this makes sense.
Just a little thought (hopefully positive) If you were lying on your deathbed and you looked back on the day of your tribunal and realised you had a choice between good health and a happy life or benefit reinstatement do you think you would regret your choice.
Actually you could apply this line of thinking to any day and any choice you made

[beachbeth]

Just a little thought (hopefully positive) If you were lying on your deathbed and you looked back on the day of your tribunal and realised you had a choice between good health and a happy life or benefit reinstatement do you think you would regret your choice.
Actually you could apply this line of thinking to any day and any choice you made

I don't think this is the choice though. If they don't reinstate my benefit I will still have depression, will still not be able to attend most social occasions, still get weepy and anxious and will still find it hard to listen to music, which is something I used to absolutely love doing. :( I won't get better just because Im not on benefit. I will just be worse off financially.

This is the trouble with the system at the moment. When you have depression you have to convince a doctor sitting in front of you how bad you are - you have no broken leg or faulty back that you can physically show.

[absolutebounder]

A pillar of Eastern thought is detachment from outcomes. This does not mean outright indifference, but requires the exercise of non-attachment to the result of one's actions, ie. you do what you have to do and don't invest the outcome with excessive emotional energy. So that if things work out, fine, if they don't there is always another opportunity and you can immediately think of the next move.
.
Spot on Q. If you worry about getting the job and you dont you have nothing whereas if you worry about being the best you can at the interview then sooner or later you willget the job and if you dont you still know you did your best

[Space donkey]

What a greaty weekend I've had. I went away to the sea side with a friend and I thought I would try some of this thought challenging and it was fantastic. Because I was in a place where no one knew me and so wouldn't judge me I started talking to strangers in the pub and the supermarket and the bus stop. I was amazed how easy it was to strike up a conversation and how friendly people were. Im really buzzing now because I managed to talk to more people than my friend who is very good looking and mostly the centre of attention.

[absolutebounder]

I I will still have depression, will still not be able to attend most social occasions, still get weepy and anxious and will still find it hard to listen to music, which is something I used to absolutely love doing. :( I won't get better just because Im not on benefit. I will just be worse off financially.

.
There is an awefull lot os use of the word will in your paragraph above. You are talking of the future which hasnt happened yet. How do you know anything WILL definitely happen?Even if you do not get the benefit reinstated there are a whole raft of benefits which the condition gives you such as not being at work while your children grow up. If you are really honest withyourself and write down all that you gain from being ill eg the example above you might find that your brain no longer needs depression to keep you at home thus allowing yourself to be happy but obeying the natural instincts of your mind.
You do of course have to accept that your brain does not want you to be super rich but wealth in life is about more than money.

[beachbeth]

I spent at least 7 years trying to fight my depression and asking doctors and therapists how to do it (none of them seemed to know the answer). I couldn't do it and I suppose the reason I used the word "will" a lot in my previous post is because Im now resigned to the fact that Im stuck with it. (Ive read self help books too.)

In one way, my depression helps me deal with my own mother and she was definitely nicer to me once we all realised I was suffering with depression.

One way I would describe my depression is that my brain feels as though its almost full to bursting. If I have one stress or one task to do then that means my brain is completely full. If I have two or more stresses or tasks then I suffer from overload and end up doing nothing at all because I can't get my head round any of it!

I had 3 of my closest relatives for Sunday lunch. They understand me completely and I can relax in their company (indeed, one of them suffers with depression too). Yet, first thing in the morning I went into the kitchen and saw the meat waiting to go in the oven and thought about all the veg that needed peeling and I just started to feel panicky as though it was all too much. Luckily, it didn't matter because my OH did most of it. This is the way depression affects me and I don't know how to stop this.

[absolutebounder]

One way I would describe my depression is that my brain feels as though its almost full to bursting. If I have one stress or one task to do then that means my brain is completely full. If I have two or more stresses or tasks then I suffer from overload and end up doing nothing at all because I can't get my head round any of it!

I had 3 of my closest relatives for Sunday lunch. They understand me completely and I can relax in their company (indeed, one of them suffers with depression too). Yet, first thing in the morning I went into the kitchen and saw the meat waiting to go in the oven and thought about all the veg that needed peeling and I just started to feel panicky as though it was all too much. Luckily, it didn't matter because my OH did most of it. This is the way depression affects me and I don't know how to stop this.
:T you have often said I couldnt understand things that I hadnt experienced. whilst we disagree on that one i have experienced what you describe and overload is one of the classic reasons for procrastination.
I love cooking and enjoy it when we have others coming for dinner but although I can cook almost anything I am only good when i am doing a set menu. trouble is we have freinds who are veggies and those who are not so I then have to think more and that is where I find stress creeping in. I can match a chef fior quality but i would have a breakdown after 5 mins if I was working in a restaurant if there were loads of different orders.
I think it comes down to the "how do you eat an elephant" thing. you cant eat it all at once but you can in small pieces at a time. Like q I dont focus on the end result but focus on making the individual parts as good as I can. I tend to write a list and tick things off as I go so if I have 10 items on the list and i do one even though it may have only taken 30 seconds I now have 9 things to do, and so on. by focusing on individual small elements tends to make the klarge picture ok. Well sometimes at least:D

[Conrad]

For example the most famous hypnotist around the UK is Paul Mckenna .


I'm sceptical anyone in a public setting is hypnotised. I say this because I see suggestibility and compliant students in martial arts where some high grade teacher demonstrates a technique and it works every time on a compliant suggestable student, but in real world frightening, confusing, biting and spitting physical confrontation the techniques do not work at all as they do in training. Many a black belt does't get this - like P McKenna and co, they simply aren't able to step back and take an objective look just as 99% of Bankers would not jhave been able to step away from the Banking coalface in say early 2007 and take a truly objective look at the whole.

Merely the student feels a social pressure in a public / classroom setting to comply.

[absolutebounder]

I'm sceptical anyone in a public setting is hypnotised. I say this because I see suggestibility and compliant students in martial arts where some high grade teacher demonstrates a technique and it works every time on a compliant suggestable student, but in real world frightening, confusing, biting and spitting physical confrontation the techniques do not work at all as they do in training. Many a black belt does't get this - like P McKenna and co, they simply aren't able to step back and take an objective look just as 99% of Bankers would not jhave been able to step away from the Banking coalface in say early 2007 and take a truly objective look at the whole.

Merely the student feels a social pressure in a public / classroom setting to comply.
I assume by public setting you are talking of stage shows. In which case I agree that in many cases it is just compliance but not all, there will be some genuinely hypnotised people and some just doing as they are told with an excuse to show off. jackass effect I call it as people volunteer to do anything to be on TV.
However in other public places it is easy to hypnotise someone. many people are in a state of hypnosis at a rock concert for instance.

[Conrad]

I recommend anyone watches a BBC prog by Alan Yentob called (from memory) 'Happiness'.

He looked at all sorts of self help and wellbeing theories, and found the US stage guru / P McKenna 'you CAN do it' methodologies to be a shallow and wanting compared with the gentle soothing talk of some oriental monk - sorry can't recall the name, but I was astounded by this guys deep and meaningful life enhancing approach.

Instead of telling people they could do anything they wanted, which itself can lead to great stress and further inadequacy feelings, and equating monetry entrapment with sucess he went far deeper, for example asking us to pause at something as everyday as a tree and marvel at the sight we behold and not to constantly naval gaze.

[absolutebounder]

I recommend anyone watches a BBC prog by Alan Yentob called (from memory) 'Happiness'.

He looked at all sorts of self help and wellbeing theories, and found the US stage guru / P McKenna 'you CAN do it' methodologies to be a shallow and wanting compared with the gentle soothing talk of some oriental monk - sorry can't recall the name, but I was astounded by this guys deep and meaningful life enhancing approach.

Instead of telling people they could do anything they wanted, which itself can lead to great stress and further inadequacy feelings, and equating monetry entrapment with sucess he went far deeper, for example asking us to pause at something as everyday as a tree and marvel at the sight we behold and not to constantly naval gaze.
I only said he was one of the most famous hypnotists not necessarily the best. However he is not American but british. He mostly uses NLP which was developed from the works of banler grindler and Milton erickson. and few researchers have much idea of what is going on in the work of those 3 especially erickson.
Much eastern philosophy is borrowed these days by the west as it has answrs and help for conditions like depression. I dont discount anything if I find it works

[Conrad]

This could be where you go wrong as you are probably invoking the law of attraction. (http://www.law-of-attraction-info.com/)
This basically means if you think the worst it is more likely to come about.
Dont ask me how it works I just know it does.



This sounds like a quote from 'The Secret', which my wife and I had a chuckle over on a plane once. Utter drivel. The author in the first few pages said the Jews attracted the holocaust upon themselves.

One thing you might want to be aware of is all the steady at peace with the world people I know, find overly positive people to be insinscere. Did you see how that woman on the last Big Brother was voted out straight away as all the others found her positive thinking to be shallow and over compensatory?

I would agree with the notion we should all challenge the way our brain processes the world though.
I like to question what it is to be me. Which thoughts are me - what am I referencing to, with what inside 'me' am I having an internal conversation.
Why do I spend all day in the sea, but the person next to me on the beach lies still? Did she chose to lie still - if so which part of her brain made that decision and why?

Neural pathways are the route of it all I think.

[beachbeth]

:T you have often said I couldnt understand things that I hadnt experienced.


No, I said you can't understand depression because you haven't experienced it (not things in general). We can all understand the pain of a broken leg even if we've never experienced it. Therefore, we can understand the need for pain relief for this. However, I have found in my experience that people who haven't either:
Suffered with depression themselves
Lived closely with someone who suffers with depression
just don't understand depression and therefore don't understand what treatments work best.

Have you ever suffered with flu or other illness that makes you feel woolly headed? Imagine trying to arrange a dinner party for 10 or organise a big conference at work whilst feeling really ill with the flu. This is how it feels when you have depression. You just can't get your head to work properly to organise everything.

[beachbeth]

However in other public places it is easy to hypnotise someone. many people are in a state of hypnosis at a rock concert for instance.

This is one reason why Hitler was so successful at getting the mass of people behind him - he evoked the same sort of mass hysteria that the Beatles did when they were in concert (obviously with different intentions!).

[absolutebounder]

This sounds like a quote from 'The Secret',

Unfortunately it isnt

which my wife and I had a chuckle over on a plane once. Utter drivel. The author in the first few pages said the Jews attracted the holocaust upon themselves.

about as much drivel as the bible saying god sent plagues of locusts. yes but it is the author at fault not the law of attraction

One thing you might want to be aware of is all

What every single one?

the steady at peace with the world people I know, find overly positive people to be insinscere

Could you define overly positive. What exactly does that mean?

. Did you see how that woman on the last Big Brother was voted out straight away as all the others found her positive thinking to be shallow and over compensatory?

unfortunately I leave watching big brother to others. how do you know what the others really felt?

I would agree with the notion we should all challenge the way our brain processes the world though.
I like to question what it is to be me. Which thoughts are me - what am I referencing to, with what inside 'me' am I having an internal conversation.
Why do I spend all day in the sea, but the person next to me on the beach lies still? Did she chose to lie still - if so which part of her brain made that decision and why?

Neural pathways are the route of it all I think.
So are you saying a person is depressed to the extent of their neural paths going the wrong way.

[beachbeth]

I dont focus on the end result but focus on making the individual parts as good as I can. I tend to write a list and tick things off as I go so if I have 10 items on the list and i do one even though it may have only taken 30 seconds I now have 9 things to do, and so on. by focusing on individual small elements tends to make the klarge picture ok.

This is what I would do before I had depression. I would start to worry about the meal I was preparing for people and then start to break it down into individual pieces, eg "6.00pm boil the potatoes, 7.00pm get the frozen pudding out of the freezer" etc. However, what Im saying is that the depressed person can't do this. It is all so overwhelming that you can't even break it down in this way and carry the tasks out. This is what Im saying you don't understand.

[absolutebounder]

This is one reason why Hitler was so successful at getting the mass of people behind him - he evoked the same sort of mass hysteria that the Beatles did when they were in concert (obviously with different intentions!).
Very true. hitlers speeches I am told were very stage managed to be hypnotic but I dont know enough german to know what he was saying. Most religious leaders were too. beware the media as well im sure rupert murdoch knows a thing or two:D
Hitler was also a very good economist but unfortunately he went bonkers

[beachbeth]

Hitler was also a very good economist but unfortunately he went bonkers

Perhaps he came down with depression.:rotfl:

[tattycath]

I have suffered from depression and I can relate to feeling overwhelmed butthings that some people find relaively easy (and in some cases really easy). Depression is an illness but it can be a kind of self fulfilling prophecy. You can't do it because you're depressed, and because you're depressed you can't do it and so it continues. Only you can break the cycle and others can give support. But with the best will in the world only you can do it-easier said than done I know-I have been there. So I got round it by altering my mindset. You have to want to get out of the situation and depression. It's easy to wallow in depression and be negative and let depression rule you. You have to decide how you want your life to be. and as you said in a previous post before depression you broke things down into mangeable sized chunks...you can do this again. you have to gain strength from somewhere to be able to achieve this. I drew on the strength of others (their support and positivity) and I still do at times. If you need to draw strength from other posters (us etc) then I hope you can and will.
I hope this post makes sense to you and I hope it helps.

[beachbeth]

It's easy to wallow in depression and be negative and let depression rule you. You have to decide how you want your life to be.

Thanks for your input. I agree with you and yet I don't find it is exactly as you say.

I can remember sitting at work with no particular stress or anything to worry about. The sun was shining and I didn't have a lot on my mind and yet I started to feel panicky about going home and getting the dinner etc. I knew as I felt these overwhelming feelings that depression was coming over me yet again. I tried to concentrate on all the good things - my OH, my nice house, my lovely daughters etc but the black cloud was coming over and there was nothing I could do about it. I even took St Johns Wort and convinced myself that this would do the trick. Unfortunately, I was very disappointed to find that it didn't.

I would have dearly liked someone to have told me what to do next.:confused:

[tattycath]

I know it's much easier said than done and you may feel there is a mountain to climb, but just do it a bit at a time-chip away at it-it will get easier. I have had the anti-depressants and the counselling etc etc-even a hospital stay at one point. It wasn't until I had my LBM and decided if I could just get to grips with it I could control the illness as opposed to it controlling me.
Anyway, you know where we are if you need to 'chat'. AB is an absolute mine of information too.
Right, I need to now try and sort out my DDS anger issues...
Good luck Beth-you know you can do this you just have to convince yourself and fight your way out.

[Sssssss]

Its preying on my mind the whole time - Im just trying to push it to the back of my mind. Im terrified they won't reinstate my benefit. :(

ok time to jump in and post a few thoughts, first of all Hi BB, Hi AB, good to see you guys here and the post is doing so well.

beachbeth I know it's hard not to keep thinking of the hearing, I also let a stupid letter over the weekend saying they were cutting of my benefits ruin my whole easter break. AB, really I did try not to let it worry me, because as you said it changes nothing. I think your words made things better for me but it is hard not to worry about these things. I think the hardest part was not being able to do anything about it, however today now that life was back to normal after the bank hols, I made a few calls, ran around a little and bingo everything sorted.

Okay so the next thing to deal with is I have a meeting with the letting agent tomorrow, having spoken to guy on the phone he sounds like a real t0sser, so yes I'm a little worried about the meeting. Ok lets look at the positive, the meeting is in MY home so if he misbehaves I'll just show him the door, it's not as though he has the power to put me and my family out in the street. Hey I feel better already :p

[absolutebounder]

No, I said you can't understand depression because you haven't experienced it (not things in general). We can all understand the pain of a broken leg even if we've never experienced it. Therefore, we can understand the need for pain relief for this. However, I have found in my experience that people who haven't either:
Suffered with depression themselves
Lived closely with someone who suffers with depression
just don't understand depression and therefore don't understand what treatments work best.

Have you ever suffered with flu or other illness that makes you feel woolly headed? Imagine trying to arrange a dinner party for 10 or organise a big conference at work whilst feeling really ill with the flu. This is how it feels when you have depression. You just can't get your head to work properly to organise everything.
Well I can understand pain but i dont for certain know the pain of a broken leg as I havent broken one though I have torn ligaments in my knee which hurt hell of a lot. I know what you are saying and in some ways I agree but you dont know for certain what anyone elses feelings are. For example if we looked at a red dress would you see exactly the same red as me? Most GPs will treat ilnesses and conditions that they have never had. i dont expect too many psychiatrists have experience of schizophrenia yet they treat it or at least do their best to.
This is why I look at every one as an individual and if both Sssss and you were to see me I would speak to you in different ways.
First you have to try things and if they work great. and if they dont try to ascertain why and then try plan B and C and so on.
To me the fact that you changed from having a fairly normal happy life to one of depression means that you should be able to change back if someone can find a way to help you.

[absolutebounder]

ok time to jump in and post a few thoughts, first of all Hi BB, Hi AB, good to see you guys here and the post is doing so well.

beachbeth I know it's hard not to keep thinking of the hearing, I also let a stupid letter over the weekend saying they were cutting of my benefits ruin my whole easter break. AB, really I did try not to let it worry me, because as you said it changes nothing. I think your words made things better for me but it is hard not to worry about these things. I think the hardest part was not being able to do anything about it, however today now that life was back to normal after the bank hols, I made a few calls, ran around a little and bingo everything sorted.

Thats good and im sure you feel better

Okay so the next thing to deal with is I have a meeting with the letting agent tomorrow, having spoken to guy on the phone he sounds like a real t0sser, so yes I'm a little worried about the meeting. Ok lets look at the positive, the meeting is in MY home so if he misbehaves I'll just show him the door, it's not as though he has the power to put me and my family out in the street. Hey I feel better already :p
one of the best ways of speaking to t0ssers is when they speak to you just stare at them and dont answer for about 6 seconds. It really un nerves them and if they say anything about it just say you are doing them the courtesy of considdering what they have said so that you can answer correctly having understood them properly.

[Sssssss]

Thanks for your input. I agree with you and yet I don't find it is exactly as you say.

I can remember sitting at work with no particular stress or anything to worry about. The sun was shining and I didn't have a lot on my mind and yet I started to feel panicky about going home and getting the dinner etc. I knew as I felt these overwhelming feelings that depression was coming over me yet again. I tried to concentrate on all the good things - my OH, my nice house, my lovely daughters etc but the black cloud was coming over and there was nothing I could do about it. I even took St Johns Wort and convinced myself that this would do the trick. Unfortunately, I was very disappointed to find that it didn't.

I would have dearly liked someone to have told me what to do next.:confused:

wouldn't you say this was more a panic / anxiety attack. For me depression is more when you are in floods of tears and just don't know why, where you don't want to leave the house or see anyone and the worst nothing matters to the point where you want to take your own life. This was how I felt two years ago, ok I'm still on ADs but finally I can see getting back some sort of life together, is it better then before yes and no, yes I wish I was 17 again ;) but age also brings wisdom and valuable lessons learnt. You had friends over for dinner now that's a big achievement.

[beachbeth]

You had friends over for dinner now that's a big achievement.

But I didn't do the dinner, my OH did because I couldn't deal with it. Also, how I described how I felt at work was how I started feeling over a period of weeks and was gradual, so not a panic attack.

Thanks for your comments though - any advice anyone can give me is appreciated.

To me the fact that you changed from having a fairly normal happy life to one of depression means that you should be able to change back if someone can find a way to help you

Have I given you the impression that I had a fairly, normal and happy life before my depression? I admit that it should have been but it wasn't.

My parents worked hard running their own business as I grew up with my siblings and didn't have much time for me. Funny thing is though that I don't resent this. This brought financial benefits in that I had the latest toys and we lived in a nice house and had nice things. However, my mum was a bit jeckyll and hyde and I didn't really know where I stood most of the time. I think this has contributed to my depression.

As a teenager I had many rows with my mum (my dad stayed in the background and just backed my mum up when needed, which upset me) and when I got my steady boyfriend (now my husband) you can't believe the relief I felt when I got to his house on a Saturday to spend the weekend with him. I could physically feel the tension leave my body once I got to his house. (At home I couldn't do right for doing wrong and couldn't relax.) His parents were lovely and didn't interfere with our plans at all.

Once we were married my parents caused a lot of grief about what we were doing and not doing. When I was pregnant with my first child (it was planned) her reaction was "What have you gone and done that for?"

This, of course, is my life in a very small nutshell! It was only when I was diagnosed with depression and, at the same time, my mum realised she couldn't bully my husband any more because he would stand up to her, that she started being a bit nicer to us.

[beachbeth]

Seems like we've been moved again. What is going on???:confused:

[absolutebounder]

Seems like we've been moved again. What is going on???:confused:
I dont know but I believe we have MSE andrea to thank. I prefer it up here as I dont think everyone is ready for the way some people post on DT much as I love the place.
Hopefully we will stay here but please everyone remember to observe the rules of the forum
if people do try to disrupt please dont rise to the bait.

[Quasar]

I dont know but I believe we have MSE andrea to thank. I prefer it up here as I dont think everyone is ready for the way some people post on DT much as I love the place.
Hopefully we will stay here but please everyone remember to observe the rules of the forum
if people do try to disrupt please dont rise to the bait.


:eek::eek: Whatever might you mean ab? :o

Ok, I know. ;)

[choille]

Sorry to but in, but upbringing does play a crucial role in well being & I can actually see that because of the way you were treated as a child it has not been good for you.

Have you read any Alice Miller?

But I didn't do the dinner, my OH did because I couldn't deal with it. Also, how I described how I felt at work was how I started feeling over a period of weeks and was gradual, so not a panic attack.

Thanks for your comments though - any advice anyone can give me is appreciated.



Have I given you the impression that I had a fairly, normal and happy life before my depression? I admit that it should have been but it wasn't.

My parents worked hard running their own business as I grew up with my siblings and didn't have much time for me. Funny thing is though that I don't resent this. This brought financial benefits in that I had the latest toys and we lived in a nice house and had nice things. However, my mum was a bit jeckyll and hyde and I didn't really know where I stood most of the time. I think this has contributed to my depression.

As a teenager I had many rows with my mum (my dad stayed in the background and just backed my mum up when needed, which upset me) and when I got my steady boyfriend (now my husband) you can't believe the relief I felt when I got to his house on a Saturday to spend the weekend with him. I could physically feel the tension leave my body once I got to his house. (At home I couldn't do right for doing wrong and couldn't relax.) His parents were lovely and didn't interfere with our plans at all.

Once we were married my parents caused a lot of grief about what we were doing and not doing. When I was pregnant with my first child (it was planned) her reaction was "What have you gone and done that for?"

This, of course, is my life in a very small nutshell! It was only when I was diagnosed with depression and, at the same time, my mum realised she couldn't bully my husband any more because he would stand up to her, that she started being a bit nicer to us.

[alison99]

I'm so glad to see the thread back here, I was/am too fragile to post on the DT forum at the moment so I could only read everyone's posts.
I don't know what triggers a bout of Depression, I was bobbing along happily just over a week ago and then BAM, it hit me for six again, it came from nowhere and I was scared that I would end up being sectioned again.
I wish I had a better understanding of why this happens to me, I had a brilliant childhood although I lost both my parents before I was 26, I have a huge family network that have always been there for one another, but suddenly I don't want to see them, I don't want to put on this happy face so they don't ask me too many questions.
I saw someone from the Crisis Team yesterday and a few changes were made in my treatment.
It would be so easy for me to give up, the temptation is huge, but I will battle on, because I know I will get better again.
I just wanted to thank AB too, for being on the other end of a pm when I needed him, thank you so much AB.

[Sssssss]

But I didn't do the dinner, my OH did because I couldn't deal with it. Also, how I described how I felt at work was how I started feeling over a period of weeks and was gradual, so not a panic attack.

Thanks for your comments though - any advice anyone can give me is appreciated.



even better OH does the cooking you just get to enjoy it ;)
Seriously the point I wanted to make was that you had people around, I shut myself off from all family and friends for over a whole year.

[Sssssss]

I dont know but I believe we have MSE andrea to thank. I prefer it up here as I dont think everyone is ready for the way some people post on DT much as I love the place.
Hopefully we will stay here but please everyone remember to observe the rules of the forum
if people do try to disrupt please dont rise to the bait.

*home sweet home* this could be a good sign for when I see the letting agent later today. Have a great day everyone. Sssssss.

[absolutebounder]

even better OH does the cooking you just get to enjoy it ;)
Seriously the point I wanted to make was that you had people around, I shut myself off from all family and friends for over a whole year.
Ha ha you are learning:rotfl:
There is always more than one side to a story. Even Illness has some benefits
Good luck with the rent boy:D

[beachbeth]

No, I haven't read any Alice Miller. What is it about?

Im glad we're back here on the health forum. I was a bit worried in the DT forum that at some point someone was going to jump in and upset everybody.

Good luck with the letting agent, Sssssss.

[Sssssss]

well got through the meeting ok, in fact I feel good about myself as I kept calm but did not back down. My opinion of this guy has changed he's not a t0sser but a real full of himself BIGGEST tosser going. Good luck to him if that's how he wants to live his life, as long as he does the things we agreed in the meeting, if not as I reminded him he is NOT the owner of the house, who is only a phone call away.

[absolutebounder]

Sorry to but in, but upbringing does play a crucial role in well being & I can actually see that because of the way you were treated as a child it has not been good for you.

Have you read any Alice Miller?
Must admit i dont know any alice miller. more homework:rolleyes:
Childhood can certainly affect adulthood because our early life is one big learning experience and home life tends to be a large part of it. parents can really screw you up:rotfl:People with depressed parents seeem to have higher chance of becoming depressed themselves which has led to some psychologists trying to make a name for themselves by saying its genetic. However you arnt born depressed and people with parents on benefits are also more likely to claim in later life. Maybe I should try and find a benefit gene:rotfl:.
Parents are our greatest influence in early life and yes overbearing parents can cause depression if you let their influence rule your life.

[absolutebounder]

I'm so glad to see the thread back here, I was/am too fragile to post on the DT forum at the moment so I could only read everyone's posts.
I don't know what triggers a bout of Depression, I was bobbing along happily just over a week ago and then BAM, it hit me for six again, it came from nowhere and I was scared that I would end up being sectioned again.
I wish I had a better understanding of why this happens to me, I had a brilliant childhood although I lost both my parents before I was 26, I have a huge family network that have always been there for one another, but suddenly I don't want to see them, I don't want to put on this happy face so they don't ask me too many questions.
I saw someone from the Crisis Team yesterday and a few changes were made in my treatment.
It would be so easy for me to give up, the temptation is huge, but I will battle on, because I know I will get better again.
I just wanted to thank AB too, for being on the other end of a pm when I needed him, thank you so much AB.
Hi Alison.
Do you think you try and live up to other peoples expectations of you?

[choille]

No, I haven't read any Alice Miller. What is it about?


She's a phsycologist who has a lot to say on how we can internalise a lot of negative stuff if we have had a dysfunctunal upbringing. She has written a lot of books - worth looking at her website on childhood.
Just google Alice Miller.

Unless you 'feel' the rage & anger that you should have been able to express when a child, but wasn't safe, or comfortable being able to, then it will lead to depression & sometimes illness in later life.

She suggests finnding an enlightened witness to go back over all the traumatic childhood stuff with - I don't explain this very well, but this woman knows her stuff big time.
And if every new parent read her stuff & took it on board there would be a lot less criminality, dysfunction, addictions & depressed people about.

There are good articles on her website & stuff on her books - The Body Never Lies.

All the best.

[Space donkey]

I'm so glad to see the thread back here, I was/am too fragile to post on the DT forum at the moment so I could only read everyone's posts.
I don't know what triggers a bout of Depression, I was bobbing along happily just over a week ago and then BAM, it hit me for six again, it came from nowhere and I was scared that I would end up being sectioned again.
I wish I had a better understanding of why this happens to me, I had a brilliant childhood although I lost both my parents before I was 26, I have a huge family network that have always been there for one another, but suddenly I don't want to see them, I don't want to put on this happy face so they don't ask me too many questions.
I saw someone from the Crisis Team yesterday and a few changes were made in my treatment.
It would be so easy for me to give up, the temptation is huge, but I will battle on, because I know I will get better again.
I just wanted to thank AB too, for being on the other end of a pm when I needed him, thank you so much AB.
I think it's great we are back here too. People can be nasty on the discussion threads. Soprry you have had a hard time but it's good there was somebody there for you. Im the same I can be happy one minute then overwhelmed with bad thoughts the next but im getting better at last.

[alison99]

Hi Alison.
Do you think you try and live up to other peoples expectations of you?

I think I probably try and live up to my own expectations of me, which will never happen as I'm my own worse critic. I also think a lot of it is to do with my physical disabilities too, although saying that, I was physically fit when I was 1st diagnosed as depressed.
Oh I don't know what it is, but this lack of sleep certainly doesn't help.

[Sssssss]

I think I probably try and live up to my own expectations of me, which will never happen as I'm my own worse critic. I also think a lot of it is to do with my physical disabilities too, although saying that, I was physically fit when I was 1st diagnosed as depressed.
Oh I don't know what it is, but this lack of sleep certainly doesn't help.

Hi Alison, just wanted to say Hi and hope you finally got some sleep, I know tiredness is the worst enemy of depression. I'm feeling really drained now even though I slept okish, hopefully the shower will kick some life back into me. Take care Sssssss.

[alison99]

Hi Alison, just wanted to say Hi and hope you finally got some sleep, I know tiredness is the worst enemy of depression. I'm feeling really drained now even though I slept okish, hopefully the shower will kick some life back into me. Take care Sssssss.

Hi Sssssss, tried to get back to sleep but it didn't work, I'm opting for a shower to kickstart my day. It's crazy, I'm absolutely exhausted yet I can't sleep. Have a great day anyway.

[smallpackages]

(Have I given you the impression that I had a fairly, normal and happy life before my depression? I admit that it should have been but it wasn't.

My parents worked hard running their own business as I grew up with my siblings and didn't have much time for me. Funny thing is though that I don't resent this. This brought financial benefits in that I had the latest toys and we lived in a nice house and had nice things. However, my mum was a bit jeckyll and hyde and I didn't really know where I stood most of the time. I think this has contributed to my depression.

As a teenager I had many rows with my mum (my dad stayed in the background and just backed my mum up when needed, which upset me) and when I got my steady boyfriend (now my husband) you can't believe the relief I felt when I got to his house on a Saturday to spend the weekend with him. I could physically feel the tension leave my body once I got to his house. (At home I couldn't do right for doing wrong and couldn't relax.) His parents were lovely and didn't interfere with our plans at all.

Once we were married my parents caused a lot of grief about what we were doing and not doing. When I was pregnant with my first child (it was planned) her reaction was "What have you gone and done that for?"

This, of course, is my life in a very small nutshell! It was only when I was diagnosed with depression and, at the same time, my mum realised she couldn't bully my husband any more because he would stand up to her, that she started being a bit nicer to us.[/QUOTE]




lots of mixed messages there, no wonder you feel depressed, as far as books go can i recommend homecoming by john bradshaw, and taming the black dog by patrick ellverton

[absolutebounder]

Something to think about.
I quite often hear people say that they dont know why they became depressed or exactly what triggered it off.
my question is what difference would it make to you if you did know? Since the event is in the past and cant change even if you did know the cause can you do anything about it now.

[jayII]

Hi AB. I think it can help, it may allow the person to be aware of triggers in the future. They can then either avoid the triggers, take particular care of themselves, or learn (and use) some coping strategies at that time.

[tattycath]

Something to think about.
I quite often hear people say that they dont know why they became depressed or exactly what triggered it off.
my question is what difference would it make to you if you did know? Since the event is in the past and cant change even if you did know the cause can you do anything about it now.
Well A B. since you ask (hoping this is an open question), I had counselling at one point and I didn't know what the initial trigger was to my depression and I was regressed back to when I was a child.... while i didn't feel the counselling helped as such it did give me a starting point to work from iyswim, and that did help me

[choille]

Something to think about.
I quite often hear people say that they dont know why they became depressed or exactly what triggered it off.
my question is what difference would it make to you if you did know? Since the event is in the past and cant change even if you did know the cause can you do anything about it now.

I believe that a lot of depression is unexpressed rage. It's been repressed, stifled.
Depression can happen a long time after an event that caused it. Often people are in denial about what is bothering them - even from themselves - they are so disassociated from it. Sometimes it is 'safer' to be depressed, in denial about someting, rather than to face up to what is actualy the root cause. It's all about fear in a way. But often the fear outweighs the benefits of getting well - face the fear & do it anyway.

[smallpackages]

Something to think about.
I quite often hear people say that they dont know why they became depressed or exactly what triggered it off.
my question is what difference would it make to you if you did know? Since the event is in the past and cant change even if you did know the cause can you do anything about it now.


knowledge is power. sometimes finding the root is the key to unravelling a mess of emotions

[roxalana]

I do agree that for some people there will be an initial trigger and it might be helpful to know what it was. But i don't think there is an explanation for why depression happens to some people.

Personally I had a great childhood, supportive parents who are still together, i've had no particular traumas (tho a few shocks!) and I'm lucky enough that none of my close friends or family have passed away, yet it still happens to me...

I will concede that all my close family are also prone to depression but I have been a 'sensitive child' since I was born! Apparently I was the only baby to be given a dummy by my doctor in his medical career as he couldn't stand the noise I made :)

I know I am special but sometimes I wish I was special in a different way...

[alison99]

Something to think about.
I quite often hear people say that they dont know why they became depressed or exactly what triggered it off.
my question is what difference would it make to you if you did know? Since the event is in the past and cant change even if you did know the cause can you do anything about it now.

If I knew the trigger event (if there was one), I could address that problem and maybe cured my depression, but maybe there is no event, perhaps some of us are just prone to depression.
I do wonder if it's a hereditary illness though, as there are a few members of my family that have suffered with it at some point in their lives.

My medication has been changed again, so if for any reason I don't make sense, you'll know why :rolleyes:

[angel00079]

I had 3 of my closest relatives for Sunday lunch. They understand me completely and I can relax in their company (indeed, one of them suffers with depression too). Yet, first thing in the morning I went into the kitchen and saw the meat waiting to go in the oven and thought about all the veg that needed peeling and I just started to feel panicky as though it was all too much. Luckily, it didn't matter because my OH did most of it. This is the way depression affects me and I don't know how to stop this.

Beachbeth, Is what you describled anxiety or depression. Perhaps they are interwoven and trying to put a label on things doesn't help. I think that it is hard to explain to someone who has not experience that panicky feeling over an everyday event.

I wonder how many of us think we have dealt with an issue when really all we have done is suppressed it. If we didn't put somethings aside I suppose that we would get nothing done.

I went to see a singer the other week, she said she wrote a song after a stranger in the street said, "Cheer up it may never happen". I suppose that we do not always feel cheerful but still walk round with smiles on our faces just so we don't get comments like that.

I sometimes think that telling ourselves that we should not feel like this is not helpful. I don't mean that we should wallow but wonder if it would be better to work out how we might deal with it.

I think that humans are complex. I think that some people may find out what suddenly changed but for many it will have been a combination. I think that the reason people often experience emotional differiculties is they do not feel the feelings. I am not saying that we should all wear our heart on our sleeve or be outwards aggressive but how many times do we put a brave face on it when really we could probably do with a chat.

I have not idea what the feelings I am experiencing at the moment mean. I feel an emotional mess and don't know how to solve things. I hope that I will find the answers. I feel better than I did last month so that is a start. I find I feel better if I focus on what I can/have achieved instead of what I can't/haven't. It is easier said that done when a simple task seems to elude me. There are some days when being tough with yourself is not enough.

I do not think that doctors or therapists have the answer but can help. Unfortunately I do not think there is a magic solution. I think there are times when we all think I we I could feel think I did at x point of my life.

[absolutebounder]

Hi all. i dont think there is a right or wrong answer as it will be different for different people. I think anxiety is much more likely to be triggered by a single event and depression by a series of events.
we learn by association either when A happens B happens too eg pavlovs dogs A bell rings when they are fed and food makes the dogs salivate so after a while the bell is associated with salivation. or we learn by sequential association ie A leads to b happening.
I think regression can be good if its an unknown event but it wont help sequential association too much. However challenging the sequence of thought is good asit is often this sequence that is corrupted in a depressed person.

Next question. Why do people often feel so undervalued in this world?

[shazrobo]

hi all, found you all lol

ab, i feel so undervalued, as i do so much caring for my disabled sons, and socail services offer no respite at all, despite numerous letters from doctors etc, telling them the effect its having on my health.

shaz

[tattycath]

I used to feel very undervalued. I think alot of it can be based, or stem from how you are treated. I had a c*ap childhood and was very wronged and the very people who I expected support from didn't give me the support-they supported my perpetrators. Later on when I was in my early 20s I met and fell in love with a guy (the father of my children) and the relationship was abusive both physical violence and mental cruelty-so again I felt undervalued, but during the mental cruelty there came a point when I thought I must really be as worthless as he kept telling me I was. If someone tells you something every day eventually it's like brainwashing and you start to believe it. It came to the point, after 10 years, that I left him and I was at rock bottom. Once you hit rock bottom the only way is up. But there are times when I feel like it's me against the rest of the world (don't we alll). and at times I still feel undervalued but it's best not to think about it if you can. I just tend to get on with things these days-I'm in a great relationship and have wonderful kids. Best to try not to dwell sometimes.
Just my opinion about my experiences I guess

[absolutebounder]

hi all, found you all lol

ab, i feel so undervalued, as i do so much caring for my disabled sons, and socail services offer no respite at all, despite numerous letters from doctors etc, telling them the effect its having on my health.

shaz
Now you see that would make me feel highly valued because you can give so much to others. admitedly you probably dont get tyhanked that often but inside you know your true value to your kids I hope. the fact that social services dont help just shows they are horribly over valued since they cost the country a lot and often do sweet FA

[absolutebounder]

I used to feel very undervalued. I think alot of it can be based, or stem from how you are treated. I had a c*ap childhood and was very wronged and the very people who I expected support from didn't give me the support-they supported my perpetrators. Later on when I was in my early 20s I met and fell in love with a guy (the father of my children) and the relationship was abusive both physical violence and mental cruelty-so again I felt undervalued, but during the mental cruelty there came a point when I thought I must really be as worthless as he kept telling me I was. If someone tells you something every day eventually it's like brainwashing and you start to believe it. It came to the point, after 10 years, that I left him and I was at rock bottom. Once you hit rock bottom the only way is up. But there are times when I feel like it's me against the rest of the world (don't we alll). and at times I still feel undervalued but it's best not to think about it if you can. I just tend to get on with things these days-I'm in a great relationship and have wonderful kids. Best to try not to dwell sometimes.
Just my opinion about my experiences I guess
I like your posts as they are very informative. i think your story shows that the environment you are in has a lot to do with things and if you can change it you may well be on the way to a better life.

[shazrobo]

Now you see that would make me feel highly valued because you can give so much to others. admitedly you probably dont get tyhanked that often but inside you know your true value to your kids I hope. the fact that social services dont help just shows they are horribly over valued since they cost the country a lot and often do sweet FA
ok so i'm highly valued, but still extremely stressed, and very depressed, not sure how you think can change the depression, when the reason for the depression cannot be changed

[shazrobo]

I like your posts as they are very informative. i think your story shows that the environment you are in has a lot to do with things and if you can change it you may well be on the way to a better life.
probably where i'm going wrong, not being able to change my environment

[absolutebounder]

probably where i'm going wrong, not being able to change my environment
I know you cant change your environment :A but I dont want you to see yourself as undervalued when it isnt true. I wish i could wave a magic wand but I cant.

[Sssssss]

Next question. Why do people often feel so undervalued in this world?

Because the world has changed it's all about me me me, especially in the working world where bosses are demanding more and more and if you don't like it there are enough unemployed to easily replace you. This leads to high staff turn over, untrained people doing the job leading to unhappy customers = feelings of undervalued. All of the above just my opinion by the way.

[beachbeth]

Because the world has changed it's all about me me me, especially in the working world where bosses are demanding more and more and if you don't like it there are enough unemployed to easily replace you. This leads to high staff turn over, untrained people doing the job leading to unhappy customers = feelings of undervalued. All of the above just my opinion by the way.

I totally agree!

I used to work for a bank and they were forever on about targets. They wanted faster work and less mistakes all the time, even though faster usually means more mistakes.

When I went for my interview we had a maths test that lasted one and a half hours (all it said in the interview letter was that we were going to be doing an aptitude test). Eight of us turned up and one failed the maths test. The rest of us were taken on part time and I was dead chuffed.

A few years later they had scrapped this test and seemed to be taking on any old tom, dick or harry and believe me some of these people didn't have two brain cells to rub together! They also took on agency staff who didn't care what work they turned out because they were only temporary (Im not saying all agency staff are like this but the ones my bank took on definitely were!)

So, to sum up, we had less staff (because a lot of the staff who had been there for years and had experience had left) and the cheap staff they were taking on were quite slow and made lots of mistakes (as most people do when they are new). They then held meetings with us all in an accusing manner to find out why targets and quality of work had gone down!:confused::confused::confused:

We knew it was no use telling them because they didn't listen. This is definitely the way some businesses are run and why customers are so annoyed.

[absolutebounder]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sssssss http://images.moneysavingexpert.com/images/forum_images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=20847491#post20847491)
Because the world has changed it's all about me me me, especially in the working world where bosses are demanding more and more and if you don't like it there are enough unemployed to easily replace you. This leads to high staff turn over, untrained people doing the job leading to unhappy customers = feelings of undervalued. All of the above just my opinion by the way.


I totally agree!

I used to work for a bank and they were forever on about targets. They wanted faster work and less mistakes all the time, even though faster usually means more mistakes.

When I went for my interview we had a maths test that lasted one and a half hours (all it said in the interview letter was that we were going to be doing an aptitude test). Eight of us turned up and one failed the maths test. The rest of us were taken on part time and I was dead chuffed.

A few years later they had scrapped this test and seemed to be taking on any old tom, dick or harry and believe me some of these people didn't have two brain cells to rub together! They also took on agency staff who didn't care what work they turned out because they were only temporary (Im not saying all agency staff are like this but the ones my bank took on definitely were!)

So, to sum up, we had less staff (because a lot of the staff who had been there for years and had experience had left) and the cheap staff they were taking on were quite slow and made lots of mistakes (as most people do when they are new). They then held meetings with us all in an accusing manner to find out why targets and quality of work had gone down!:confused::confused::confused:

We knew it was no use telling them because they didn't listen. This is definitely the way some businesses are run and why customers are so annoyed.
A couple of interesting answers and not really what i was expecting. You see I set this thread up because there is nearly always more than one answer and so there will be the unexpected but also people may give you alternatives to think about so that your point of view may change for the better.
I agree that a lot of the quality in the workplace has gone down though not all. anyone dealing with local government or the civil service will realise the main recruiting ground these days is the chimp house at London Zoo. but what does it matter as your value to the company then goes up. If Sssss had no value to his company when he argued with the boss he would have been straight out but hes not.
Targets always go up because management in the UK is so poor it doesnt understand the concept behind them. I never bothered about them. I just focused on doing my best for the customer and sometimes I met the target and sometimes I didnt. If we didnt we had a boss that would come out and "help" us sell. The customers didnt like two people pressurising them so he never got us anywhere near target which gave one good excuses.
In todays workplace I would have thought there was every opportunity to see your self as valued. I put the question in because our values should come from within but so often we seek appreciation for our efforts from others ( who very often we dont evn value ourselves in the first place.) Now if that appreciation is not forthcoming from others we are left with nothing and feel undervalued or worthless. This is what is wrong with trying to be someone that you think other people will like or value.
Everyone should feel valued even if they are the only ones feeling it. Your value comes from within and you know what you do for others and hence what your true value is to your work, friends , family etc is.
I see BB fretting over money and the fact she doesnt work anymore but without her her OH would not be working either as he would have to look after the kids. BB it is you who allows OH to keep his job. That is true value.

[beachbeth]

Quote:
This is what is wrong with trying to be someone that you think other people will like or value.

I spent years trying to be the person I thought my mum wanted to be. Until about 15 years ago I realised I could never be this perfect person. Plus her opinions were always changing so that something that was good today wasn't so good tomorrow, depending on her mood. So I thought "what the heck" Im going to be the person I think I should be and if she doesn't like it then its her problem and she'll have to deal with it.

[absolutebounder]

I spent years trying to be the person I thought my mum wanted to be. Until about 15 years ago I realised I could never be this perfect person. Plus her opinions were always changing so that something that was good today wasn't so good tomorrow, depending on her mood. So I thought "what the heck" Im going to be the person I think I should be and if she doesn't like it then its her problem and she'll have to deal with it.
Its very difficult to be what someone else wants you to be because your brain doesnt have the resources to be that person. be yourself and let everyone else like it or lump it

[absolutebounder]

Something useful. this is what i often use to challenge thought patterns. its not the only thing but if you ask yourselves the questions in this link (http://www.communicatingexcellence.com/2007/10/04/cartesian-questions/)you may get a clearer picture of things.

[Space donkey]

Something useful. this is what i often use to challenge thought patterns. its not the only thing but if you ask yourselves the questions in this link (http://www.communicatingexcellence.com/2007/10/04/cartesian-questions/)you may get a clearer picture of things.
I use those type of questions a lot and it has helped me realise that my first thoughts are not always right. It has stopped me thinking the worst all the time.
I have stopped taking my ADs too and I am feeling much more positive about the future. I am finding everyone here is an inspiration and it really helps.

[Sssssss]

Your value comes from within and you know what you do for others and hence what your true value is to your work, friends , family etc is.


Hi AB, a very interesting reply, you're right I was thinking along the lines of being valued by others. But now you got me to think first I must look inside myself and say do I value myself, and the answer is a definite YES, now before my major depression I would have said NO. So yes I'm one of the lucky ones who has managed to overcome the major depression stage and been rewarded with a valuable lesson in life, i.e. what's important and what's not. You are right I stood up to my boss because I valued myself and said no this is wrong and you are not going to bully me. He is at it again, he now wants me a sign a second contract where by the company will get paid to train me even though he has clearly admitted there will be no training, it's just a scam to get more money. I'm the only one from the other 6 employees who has refused to sign this contract, he said I was not a team player. Well sorry but I am not going to be party to fraud.

I also spent two and a half hours at the police station this morning giving my statement against the complaint made by the karate teacher. It was hard going but I kept saying deep down and inside of me I'm right and what I did , I did to protect my son.

So again thank you, you have helped me change my mind set to start thinking all good things must first come from within yourself and after we can seek approval of others if we still feel the need.

[beachbeth]

Well done, Sssssss, for sticking to your guns. It must have been hard giving the statement, but you know you're doing the right thing. Good on you for not signing the contract at work too. Most people would have just signed and gone along with everyone else.:T

[absolutebounder]

Your value comes from within and you know what you do for others and hence what your true value is to your work, friends , family etc is.


Hi AB, a very interesting reply, you're right I was thinking along the lines of being valued by others. But now you got me to think first I must look inside myself and say do I value myself, and the answer is a definite YES, now before my major depression I would have said NO. So yes I'm one of the lucky ones who has managed to overcome the major depression stage and been rewarded with a valuable lesson in life, i.e. what's important and what's not. You are right I stood up to my boss because I valued myself and said no this is wrong and you are not going to bully me. He is at it again, he now wants me a sign a second contract where by the company will get paid to train me even though he has clearly admitted there will be no training, it's just a scam to get more money. I'm the only one from the other 6 employees who has refused to sign this contract, he said I was not a team player. Well sorry but I am not going to be party to fraud.


Id negotiate. he wants contract signed so you want some of the extra money firm is getting ie pay rise.
Point out it has nothing to do with being a team player. in fact ask him what that means and when he has told you just say something like "that sounds more like a sheep to me"
say you dont like fraud if all else fails. Or say you will only sign in exchange for training.
yes strength always comes from within (a good martial arts teacher knows that so yours might be a push over)

[absolutebounder]

Im going to be away for a couple of days getting married on Friday. So while I am gone make sure you behave yourselves:rotfl:
Just remember there is always more than one option and every viewpoint or thought can be challenged. as shown in my link above So if you are feeling low keep challenging the thought until it gets to a more positive state. it seems Sssss and space donkey have the idea.
Strength does not ultimately come from others but from within. put bluntly it is your choice as to whether you let life dump on you from a great height.

[Sazbo]

Im going to be away for a couple of days getting married on Friday.

I had wondered why you weren't spending quite so much time on here recently;):D Congratulations to you both and all the very best for the big day! :beer:
Sazzy x

[beachbeth]

I had assumed you were already married for some reason!

Congratulations! Hope everything goes smoothly. Are you having a honeymoon?

[absolutebounder]

I had assumed you were already married for some reason!

Congratulations! Hope everything goes smoothly. Are you having a honeymoon?
Yes going to kenya on 4th of may for two weeks. OH spends a lot of time on MSE and found a very cheap deal. Only thing is I feel like a pin cushion with all the injections. still you never know i might get eaten by a lion or something which may please a few people:rotfl:


I had wondered why you weren't spending quite so much time on here recently;):D Congratulations to you both and all the very best for the big day! :beer:
Sazzy x

thanks sazzy. isnt it time you and the badge got hitched:D

[Sazbo]

thanks sazzy. isnt it time you and the badge got hitched:D

lol I think he values his sanity is far too sensible to ever consider doing that! But I guess we'll have to wait and see:D

Sx

[Sssssss]

Im going to be away for a couple of days getting married on Friday. So while I am gone make sure you behave yourselves:rotfl:


OMG the poor woman does she know what she's doing ;) just kidding hope all goes well on the day and have a great honeymoon.

[tattycath]

Congratulations A B
on your forthcoming nuptials... regarding your other thread... I hope there is s*x after marriage-we're hoping to get married later this year or early next.

[absolutebounder]

Thanks to all of you.
get on and fix a date tattycath.. i like weddings

[whitevanwoman]

:hello:Here you all are

I've missed you on DS thread and haven't really been posting since you all left after the unpleasant episode a few weeks ago :silenced:

Thanks to Ssss for the link :T

Wow, AB, wedding bells tomorrow. Wishing you a great day and a great life together :love:

Haven't read through all the thread yet so need to catch up and see who's around but am very glad to have found you and looking forward to finding out all the gossip and news :j

[shazrobo]

congratulations AB , and all the best for your big day

shaz xxx

[Space donkey]

Hi AB. Dont get too depressed at the life sentence.:eek: Congratulations to you both. Can you post the photographs here :j

[Lita Ford]

Way to go bounder. have a fantastic day.

[Sssssss]

Hi all

Seeing my relaxation therapist today, was going to see him last month but I chickened out. I feel as though I'm coping ok but all the little problems recently are finally weighing me down, so always good to see this guy, plus our resident expert AB has gone away for a few days :)

every1 have a great day/weekend, Sssssss.

[LadyMorticia]

Congrats AB!

[absolutebounder]

Hi all
Just got back. had a stunning day in a stunning location down in Somerset. If anyone is thinking of getting hitched you wont beat the place.
Thanks for all your kind posts.

[LadyMorticia]

Hi all
Just got back. had a stunning day in a stunning location down in Somerset. If anyone is thinking of getting hitched you wont beat the place.
Thanks for all your kind posts.

I'll be coming to you if Sam ever pops the question then. :rotfl:

[beachbeth]

Glad you enjoyed Somerset, AB. We had a caravan a few years ago and spent a couple of holidays there. It was really nice.

The sun is shining today which is lovely. Ive got a hangover though. We rarely go out as I can't usually cope with social events, but my niece had a birthday party and so we said we'd pop in for half an hour. We ended up staying longer though and my glass kept getting refilled with a cocktail. It tasted like orange pop and so I just kept drinking it. I was sick on the way home and still feel drunk this morning. I can't remember the last time I was that drunk and I hate it. Just want a nice, chilled day today.

[absolutebounder]

Glad you enjoyed Somerset, AB. We had a caravan a few years ago and spent a couple of holidays there. It was really nice.

The sun is shining today which is lovely. Ive got a hangover though. We rarely go out as I can't usually cope with social events, but my niece had a birthday party and so we said we'd pop in for half an hour. We ended up staying longer though and my glass kept getting refilled with a cocktail. It tasted like orange pop and so I just kept drinking it. I was sick on the way home and still feel drunk this morning. I can't remember the last time I was that drunk and I hate it. Just want a nice, chilled day today.

This was the venue (http://www.countryhouseweddings.co.uk/st-audries-park/) and it wasnt that expensive. So well recommended for you LM if he pops it. I might even do a free show for you:rotfl:

BB you should know better. Booze and ADs is a terrible mix as they fight each other.

[beachbeth]

BB you should know better. Booze and ADs is a terrible mix as they fight each other.

I know - slap on the wrist for me!:o

[absolutebounder]

Hi all

Seeing my relaxation therapist today, was going to see him last month but I chickened out. I feel as though I'm coping ok but all the little problems recently are finally weighing me down, so always good to see this guy, plus our resident expert AB has gone away for a few days :)

every1 have a great day/weekend, Sssssss.
The relaxation sessions should be good for you. Stress is caused when brain is overloaded and a good deep relaxing session should let you focus on your thoughts and work out which are valid and which are not so,

[absolutebounder]

Something new to discuss this week. one of the words i associate with depression is judgemental. I often hear people complaining about others being judgemental towards them. So do you feel that people are judgemental and how can you challenge these thoughts.

[beachbeth]

As a woman, I feel I get judged by a lot of people. My mum judges how good I am as housekeeper, mother, superwoman etc. My kids judge me according to what I put on the table and if I do their washing exactly when they need it. Other friends and relatives judge how well you are doing at work as well as being a mum. I don't know if men feel as judged by other people as women do? Or maybe they do and just don't care on the whole? I say this because men don't seem to get the guilt that women do if they are unable to fulfil other people's expectations.

An example of the above which I am struggling with at the moment: I help my dad out doing a little paperwork but its causing me stress. I know he and my mum love knowing their kids are around and helping out (Im being vague because I don't want to post specific details), (even though we are all 40 and over!!!) If I tell them I just can't do it any more (it only takes an hour on a Monday morning) I will feel so guilty that I am letting them both down and letting them see just how much of a failure I am because I suffer with depression.

A lot of Monday mornings I have been in tears because I don't want the stress of doing it and yet Im upset about not doing it any more and letting them down. Im relieved after I have finished and I don't have to think about it for another week but I am now seriously considering telling them that I just can't do it any more. This is how other people's judgements affect me. I find it hard to say no.

[focus888]

Something new to discuss this week. one of the words i associate with depression is judgemental. I often hear people complaining about others being judgemental towards them. So do you feel that people are judgemental and how can you challenge these thoughts.

I am always judged on because of my weight, it doesnt seem fair, everyone has a vice whether it be smoking or drinking, mine happens to be food :o why is it because its food related i have to put up with stupid looks and idiotic comments? i dont go around laughing at people drinking in the pub or smoking do i? :mad:

[beachbeth]

I can relate to you, focus888. Im only five foot tall and have had to put up with comments about my height all my life. I didn't decide to be this height and can't change it by diet or exercise or by doing anything else, so why is it funny? In my very first job interview the boss asked if I had my own car. When I said that, yes I did, he laughed and asked how I managed to reach the pedals. I laughed along too and got the job but inside I was quite angry.

Ive lost count of how many people have asked how tall I am and have also been patted on the head! Don't people realise you have heard it all before and it isn't news to you???:confused:

[Sazbo]

Beth - I'm the same height as you - just wondered, do you get people holding doors open for you and then for some reason insist you walk underneath their arm? What's that all about?! :confused: I'm 43 years of age! :rotfl:

Sxx

[beachbeth]

Beth - I'm the same height as you - just wondered, do you get people holding doors open for you and then for some reason insist you walk underneath their arm? What's that all about?! :confused: I'm 43 years of age! :rotfl:

Sxx

Me too! And Im 44!

[Miroslav]

People have always said I can't be depressed - I'm young and male (okay, maybe not young anymore at nearly 33) and I seem okay. In fact, I apparently look like the kind of guy that can handle himself and is okay no matter what.

So basically, being young male and not geeky means I have no feelings. I've even had people say to me after bereavements/trauma - 'you'll be okay, you're a young man' and a few months later - 'that was months ago, you should be over it by now. You're a young man with his whole life ahead of him'

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[absolutebounder]

Hi all and welcome to the newcomers. I knew judgemental would be a hot topic as it comes up a lot with depressed people but this thread is not supposed to be judgemental. observational maybe but we dont judge , just try and help with ideas.
heres a thought (not one of my own I might add) how you see others depends where you get your values from. If you get your values from others you yourself will be constantly making comparisons and so will see others as comparing or judging you. If however you go inside and get youer values internally from yourself then other peoples values are irrelevant to you which means though people can still judge you, you no longer hold any value to their opinion which means they shouldnt stress you out so much. you know yourselves whether you are good people or not you dont need others to make the judgement.
the other thing is that judgement is always a comparison. The question is a comparison to what?
Miroslav says people look at him and think hes a hard guy but would they still think that if he stood next to mike tyson? all that is happening is they are comparing his physical features to a stereotype and not the true person he is which means it is they who have the problem not him.

[Miroslav]

It's funny you should use the Mike Tyson comparison, as i'm very tall and an ex bodybuilder, although I think I have a kinder face than Iron Mike :o I'm also shaven headed and walk around with a growl :o

I may look scary (!) but i'm actually very gentle.

I know it's the other people that have the problem, and most people don't bother me. It's just when it affects things such as jobs and relationships. It seems jobwise I always get told that retail/care work isn't my thing and I should be looking for Builder or general 'mens' work and relationship wise - it just doesn't happen. I just attract promiscuous and shallow girls that think i'm up for one thing :o

I dread to think what people would think if I had tattoos and a motorbike!

[Sssssss]

now Sssssss the depressive used to worry a lot about people judging him, I would try and behave as I felt they wanted me to, just to be liked. In the end they just saw me as weak and I ended up taking a lot of crap.

now the new Sssssss, who is in a good place, just says don't give a damn how other people judge me or think of me. These other people mean very little in my life and those who are close and dear to me, know me too well to judge me, they accept me for all my faults but also see the good in me.

[beachbeth]

People have always said I can't be depressed - I'm young and male (okay, maybe not young anymore at nearly 33) and I seem okay. In fact, I apparently look like the kind of guy that can handle himself and is okay no matter what.

So basically, being young male and not geeky means I have no feelings. I've even had people say to me after bereavements/trauma - 'you'll be okay, you're a young man' and a few months later - 'that was months ago, you should be over it by now. You're a young man with his whole life ahead of him'

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Thats awful. You should never say to anyone "you should be over it by now!". What help is that? Ive also had people say to me "Cheer up" or "What have you got to be depressed about?" - some people have just got no idea.

[shazrobo]

i feel judged as a parent, everytime my sons are in trouble, you can hear people saying typical single parent family from council estate.
i also get judged for my height, because i am over 6 foot tall and female, people stare, they expect men to be so tall, but appently not females

[focus888]

Hi all and welcome to the newcomers. I knew judgemental would be a hot topic as it comes up a lot with depressed people but this thread is not supposed to be judgemental. observational maybe but we dont judge , just try and help with ideas.
heres a thought (not one of my own I might add) how you see others depends where you get your values from. If you get your values from others you yourself will be constantly making comparisons and so will see others as comparing or judging you. If however you go inside and get youer values internally from yourself then other peoples values are irrelevant to you which means though people can still judge you, you no longer hold any value to their opinion which means they shouldnt stress you out so much. you know yourselves whether you are good people or not you dont need others to make the judgement.
the other thing is that judgement is always a comparison. The question is a comparison to what?


I think i understand what you are saying :o but the experience of being treated differently is not very pleasant and you can try to be the bigger person and look deep inside yourself but how long can you do that for before completely snapping.

ive tried a new approach recently and thats when i see people looking and judging me i stare right back at them, i dare them to judge me to my eye and somehow the fact that i am now judging them shames them away. Why treat others the way you dont want to be treated? :confused: total idoits!

[Sssssss]

I think i understand what you are saying :o but the experience of being treated differently is not very pleasant and you can try to be the bigger person and look deep inside yourself but how long can you do that for before completely snapping.

ive tried a new approach recently and thats when i see people looking and judging me i stare right back at them, i dare them to judge me to my eye and somehow the fact that i am now judging them shames them away. Why treat others the way you dont want to be treated? :confused: total idoits!

because once you've done it a few times and seen the great results, it gets easier, make this part of your postive habit, thereby you can avoid snapping.

excellent approach, to look someone back in the eye. I recently did this with my boss who was giving me a hard time and I told him straight you are not a very good manager, he mumbled 'don't critcise me' and I swear I could see him shrinking into his chair because he just never had anyone talk to him like that before.

[absolutebounder]

It's funny you should use the Mike Tyson comparison, as i'm very tall and an ex bodybuilder, although I think I have a kinder face than Iron Mike :o I'm also shaven headed and walk around with a growl :o

cant condone the growl but it wouldnt be hard to have a kinder face than Mike:D

I may look scary (!) but i'm actually very gentle.

i kinda guessed that:rotfl:

I know it's the other people that have the problem, and most people don't bother me. It's just when it affects things such as jobs and relationships. It seems jobwise I always get told that retail/care work isn't my thing and I should be looking for Builder or general 'mens' work and relationship wise - it just doesn't happen. I just attract promiscuous and shallow girls that think i'm up for one thing :o

Some people would like that. sex is good for depression as it releases a lot of good endorphins:D

I dread to think what people would think if I had tattoos and a motorbike!
oi I have two tattoos and a motorbike:rotfl:
i can understand the job thing as retail relies on image (often fake) so much.

[absolutebounder]

I think i understand what you are saying :o but the experience of being treated differently is not very pleasant and you can try to be the bigger person and look deep inside yourself but how long can you do that for before completely snapping.

ive tried a new approach recently and thats when i see people looking and judging me i stare right back at them, i dare them to judge me to my eye and somehow the fact that i am now judging them shames them away. Why treat others the way you dont want to be treated? :confused: total idoits!
You have stumbled on a useful resource. Peoples view of you depends on your acceptance of their values or state and by passively staring without saying anything you are witholding your acceptance which tends to stuff all but the emotionally strong

Ssssss
because once you've done it a few times and seen the great results, it gets easier, make this part of your postive habit, thereby you can avoid snapping


This is also true. it works both ways and people lose self esteem because people keep putting them down and it becomes habit but as you say it can be broken by repeated success

[absolutebounder]

i feel judged as a parent, everytime my sons are in trouble, you can hear people saying typical single parent family from council estate.
i also get judged for my height, because i am over 6 foot tall and female, people stare, they expect men to be so tall, but appently not females
Just shows how wrong one can be I have spoken to you but never seen you and I had the impression you were fairly short which is a lesson that one should never jump to conclusions on a forum or the telephone:rotfl:

[CCStar]

Hi

I am new to this thread, so hope I haven't got the wrong end of the stick.

Being judged to me is

Being criticised when I do my best by people who are supposed to care about you. I feel women are expected to act and be a certain way, and if they don't fit the mould, then they are put down. I'm not even talking about having the perfect body here, which is another issue.

I also feel women are never allowed to be ill and have time off from housework etc.

[CCStar]

As a woman, I feel I get judged by a lot of people. My mum judges how good I am as housekeeper, mother, superwoman etc. My kids judge me according to what I put on the table and if I do their washing exactly when they need it. Other friends and relatives judge how well you are doing at work as well as being a mum. I don't know if men feel as judged by other people as women do? Or maybe they do and just don't care on the whole? I say this because men don't seem to get the guilt that women do if they are unable to fulfil other people's expectations.

An example of the above which I am struggling with at the moment: I help my dad out doing a little paperwork but its causing me stress. I know he and my mum love knowing their kids are around and helping out (Im being vague because I don't want to post specific details), (even though we are all 40 and over!!!) If I tell them I just can't do it any more (it only takes an hour on a Monday morning) I will feel so guilty that I am letting them both down and letting them see just how much of a failure I am because I suffer with depression.

A lot of Monday mornings I have been in tears because I don't want the stress of doing it and yet Im upset about not doing it any more and letting them down. Im relieved after I have finished and I don't have to think about it for another week but I am now seriously considering telling them that I just can't do it any more. This is how other people's judgements affect me. I find it hard to say no.
I feel there is more expectation from a woman to be superwoman. I used to try and kill myself to be one but why should I?

If this one job is too much, you have to say so. You could offer to do it every two weeks or once a month.

[shazrobo]

Hi

I am new to this thread, so hope I haven't got the wrong end of the stick.

Being judged to me is

Being criticised when I do my best by people who are supposed to care about you. I feel women are expected to act and be a certain way, and if they don't fit the mould, then they are put down. I'm not even talking about having the perfect body here, which is another issue.

I also feel women are never allowed to be ill and have time off from housework etc.
i agree with ccstar, women are never allowed time off, especially mum's, no matter how ill, i cannot lie in bed or on the sofa and recover i have to carry on daily activities, usually ending up with me becoming more ill and exhausted before finally getting better.

funny you say i sounded short AB, nobody has ever said that before, tho i often get told i sound a lot younger on the phone

shaz x

[CCStar]

i agree with ccstar, women are never allowed time off, especially mum's, no matter how ill, i cannot lie in bed or on the sofa and recover i have to carry on daily activities, usually ending up with me becoming more ill and exhausted before finally getting better.

funny you say i sounded short AB, nobody has ever said that before, tho i often get told i sound a lot younger on the phone

shaz x
I have never spoken to or seen you but never thought you weren't tall either, I thought you were around 5ft 5in.

We are bombarded with pretty, skinny people who can do it all.

When I was 17, there was this woman I worked with who had a natural beauty, skinnier and sooooo tidy and neat. I felt fat (I was 8 stone and 5ft 7in), clutsy and messy compared to her.

I have pictures of her from an event my OH took where we were all doing something for our workplace. When I last saw her picture, she looked OK but a bit plain. She was really nice tho and later found out she had boyfriend problems at that time.

My peers never spoke about their problems. My peers were so competitive. If you showed weakness, you became a target for bullying. I feel people who were at school in the 70s were not the nicest people. When I have met some years later, they are still not that nice and that is why I stopped the contact as soon as I left school.

So it started at school for me. The message was be perfect and don't show weakness.

[Amber Sunshine]

Judgement - how I hate that. I get it all the time. For being thin, for being strange (IMO Aspergers ...), for preferring working on my own ...

Must say, I'd never had any image of Shaz's height :D but you should wear those heels and be proud!

[beachbeth]

My peers never spoke about their problems. My peers were so competitive. If you showed weakness, you became a target for bullying. I feel people who were at school in the 70s were not the nicest people. When I have met some years later, they are still not that nice and that is why I stopped the contact as soon as I left school.

So it started at school for me. The message was be perfect and don't show weakness.

I agree. I was at school in the 70's and left in 1981. Most people were horrible! There were so many girls who just wanted to be !!!!!y and put everyone else down in order to make themselves feel better. I have never understood !!!!!iness and don't know why some women feel they have to behave like this. Im very much a live and let live sort of person and would hate to think a word or action of mine had upset someone or ruined their day. I suppose though that also means that Im not at all competitive (I don't like sports at all) and was never career minded and thats why my ambition was always to stay at home and have children. Some people think this isn't really an ambition.:o This is why I don't have a highly paid job with a big house and a flash car either.:o

[Sazbo]

This is why I don't have a highly paid job with a big house and a flash car either.:o

I don't have any of those things either Beth xx But they've never mattered to me, and that's the god's honest truth. Can't take 'em with ya. And to be honest, I'd probably be happier with even less than I do have, in a way it would be less restricting. I don't like feeling tied to material things. It's family and friends that are the most precious things in the world to me, I know it's a cliche but money can't buy happiness. Having said that if I win the £89m jackpot tomorrow night I'll try not to be too miserable about it :rotfl:

Sazzy xxxxx

[whitevanwoman]

AB

Are you asking us to think about whether we are actually being judged or whether we THINK we are being constantly judged (and found to be lacking)?

I have recently begun to realise that these are 2 very different things. My automatic assumption is to assume I'm being judged and will be found to be lacking in some way, I guess because I have such a low opinion of myself, and yet people do say positive things - like how good I am at things etc, and yet I find myself unable to believe their comments and think that they are just saying something nice to keep me happy.

And being in such a negative frame of mind, means that I see a negative comment as being aimed at me, when in fact it isn't, or it isn't even intended to be negative, or the person doesn't even realise what they have said or even sometimes that that persons opinion is not worth listening to. It is as if all my instincts / senses etc are honed in to negativity, and half the time I don't even realise I'm doing it. The result is a super sensitivity to criticism and the downward spiral into depression.

I know that being aware of all this is the first step but it really is hard to accept that your perception of what is "normal" for you, is in fact, not normal at all.

[beachbeth]

And being in such a negative frame of mind, means that I see a negative comment as being aimed at me, when in fact it isn't, or it isn't even intended to be negative, or the person doesn't even realise what they have said or even sometimes that that persons opinion is not worth listening to. It is as if all my instincts / senses etc are honed in to negativity, and half the time I don't even realise I'm doing it. The result is a super sensitivity to criticism and the downward spiral into depression.

I know exactly what you mean. I have a hairdresser who works in a salon but is self employed. I know her from school and she used to be a mobile and came to my house. (This is the only way I could go to a salon because I know her!)

She has made a comment on occasion that if I pay by cheque it can be a bit awkward for her (Ive no idea why). The last time I went to her I paid by cheque because I wasn't sure how much my hair was going to be and it was just more convenient for me than withdrawing £60-£70 and then finding it still wasn't enough! She said "Gosh, not many of my clients pay by cheque nowadays" I didn't say much but her comment upset and angered me. I feel that if she doesn't like me paying by cheque then I'll pay someone else by cheque! I just had a feeling that she was trying to tell me not to pay by cheque in future and this is what annoyed me.

I came home feeling quite negative about it. Ive been given the name of a mobile hairdresser because I can't afford to go in the salon any more and this experience has made me feel even more that I won't go to the salon again.

Am I being paranoid or was she being funny with me? :confused: Only she knows really.

[absolutebounder]

I(I don't like sports at all) and was never career minded and thats why my ambition was always to stay at home and have children.
This is interesting. I have always said (and been shot to bits for saying it) that depression is a defence mechanism and that if you werent depressed you would be doing something your brain liked even less.
Do you not think that by having depression your unconcious mind is making damn sure your ambition is acheived. without depresssion you would be under pressure to work and do other things.

[whitevanwoman]

I know exactly what you mean. I have a hairdresser who works in a salon but is self employed. I know her from school and she used to be a mobile and came to my house. (This is the only way I could go to a salon because I know her!)

She has made a comment on occasion that if I pay by cheque it can be a bit awkward for her (Ive no idea why). The last time I went to her I paid by cheque because I wasn't sure how much my hair was going to be and it was just more convenient for me than withdrawing £60-£70 and then finding it still wasn't enough! She said "Gosh, not many of my clients pay by cheque nowadays" I didn't say much but her comment upset and angered me. I feel that if she doesn't like me paying by cheque then I'll pay someone else by cheque! I just had a feeling that she was trying to tell me not to pay by cheque in future and this is what annoyed me.

I came home feeling quite negative about it. Ive been given the name of a mobile hairdresser because I can't afford to go in the salon any more and this experience has made me feel even more that I won't go to the salon again.

Am I being paranoid or was she being funny with me? :confused: Only she knows really.

Hi BB

I would have had virtually the same reaction and would sit at home brooding about it for days afterwards.

My guess is that if you pay by cheque, she will incur bank charges for paying it in and that also she will have to put it through the books, whereas a cash payment could be invisible and go into a back pocket rather than through the books. But if that is the case, then it is her problem and not yours and it isn't professional nor is it professional to make her customers feel awkward about how they pay. If it is a problem, then she should put up a notice or mention it when making appointments.

If she doesn't offer a card payment facility, and grumbles about cheque payments, then she isn't the world's greatest business woman and she will end up losing customers.

I would say vote with your feet (and your purse) and go with the mobile hairdresser - cheaper and more convenient for you. Maybe just check with her that cheque payment is ok beforehand (explain why - I'm sure she would understand) to avoid any sticky moments during the appointment.

But yes, I would have fretted in exactly the same way x

[absolutebounder]

I
She has made a comment on occasion that if I pay by cheque it can be a bit awkward for her (Ive no idea why). The last time I went to her I paid by cheque because I wasn't sure how much my hair was going to be and it was just more convenient for me than withdrawing £60-£70 and then finding it still wasn't enough! She said "Gosh, not many of my clients pay by cheque nowadays" .
I wouldnt get too upset. She probably wants cash so the Inland Revenue doesnt know too much about it.

[Sazbo]

I wouldnt get too upset. She probably wants cash so the Inland Revenue doesnt know too much about it.

I was going to say maybe it's a tax thing xx

[absolutebounder]

AB

Are you asking us to think about whether we are actually being judged or whether we THINK we are being constantly judged (and found to be lacking)?

I have recently begun to realise that these are 2 very different things. My automatic assumption is to assume I'm being judged and will be found to be lacking in some way, I guess because I have such a low opinion of myself, and yet people do say positive things - like how good I am at things etc, and yet I find myself unable to believe their comments and think that they are just saying something nice to keep me happy.

And being in such a negative frame of mind, means that I see a negative comment as being aimed at me, when in fact it isn't, or it isn't even intended to be negative, or the person doesn't even realise what they have said or even sometimes that that persons opinion is not worth listening to. It is as if all my instincts / senses etc are honed in to negativity, and half the time I don't even realise I'm doing it. The result is a super sensitivity to criticism and the downward spiral into depression.

I know that being aware of all this is the first step but it really is hard to accept that your perception of what is "normal" for you, is in fact, not normal at all.
Good post. I see the word judgemental on a lot of depression forums. Personaly I think (but could well be wrong) that depression makes people oversensitive. I often make observations which are confused as judgements but in reality I find it difficult to be judgemental without really knowing the person. We probably all make pictures in our minds of how we think people are but as my vision of shaz proves we get it wrong. this is why I prefer to meet people in person because so much gets misunderstood here.

[whitevanwoman]

Good post. I see the word judgemental on a lot of depression forums. Personaly I think (but could well be wrong) that depression makes people oversensitive. I often make observations which are confused as judgements but in reality I find it difficult to be judgemental without really knowing the person. We probably all make pictures in our minds of how we think people are but as my vision of shaz proves we get it wrong. this is why I prefer to meet people in person because so much gets misunderstood here.

I suspect that the fear of and assumption of judgementalism is linked to low self esteem rather than depression, but as the 2 often go hand in hand, then it is seen in alot of people with depression. The reason I say this is that even if not "depressed" (ie, very low mood, inactivity etc), my self-esteem is still very fragile and very susceptible to perceived negative judgements.

At the moment, I am finding it difficult to trust my own judgements as having an awareness of my vulnerability to assuming that others are judging me, makes me question every reaction or thought I have and seek constant reassurance that I am thinking the "right" way and not over-reacting or seeing something from a negative slant.

In the cycle of learning and awareness I have gone from being an unconscious incompetant to a conscious incompetant with moments of being a conscious competant. The goal is to become an unconscious competant.

And if you all understand that last paragraph, you are doing very well! ;)

[absolutebounder]

Hi

I am new to this thread, so hope I haven't got the wrong end of the stick.

.
Hi CCstar. Yes you have got the right end of the stick. This thread does more in the way of discussion and swapping ideas but you wont get quite so many huggs. Though that doesnt mean we are not all nice and trying to help each other.

[beachbeth]

Just to change the subject for a minute. Im a bit nervous because its my IB tribunal next week and tonight the person from Welfare Rights is coming to see us. He is the person representing us next week. He is coming in the evening rather than the day so that my husband will be here. On the one hand Im worried that he will see me at home not looking too bad and not believe I suffer badly but on the other hand I don't want to sit in a heap crying my eyes out either. Im not sure how Im going to be when he gets here but Im already nervous.

The other thing is that both my husband and myself have spoken to him on the phone and he is difficult to talk to. He's the sort of person who speaks slowly but very firmly and doesn't let you get a word in edgeways, even if you try to interrupt. When you do manage to say something he then carries on where he left off and doesn't seem to have listened to what you just said. I find this sort of person difficult and Im also worried my OH will get annoyed with him!

[beachbeth]

This is interesting. I have always said (and been shot to bits for saying it) that depression is a defence mechanism and that if you werent depressed you would be doing something your brain liked even less.
Do you not think that by having depression your unconcious mind is making damn sure your ambition is acheived. without depresssion you would be under pressure to work and do other things.

Yes, you are exactly right. If I didn't have depression I would be under pressure to work full time now my kids are grown up and, even though the money would be nice, I wouldn't like it.

When people ask me what I do (ie for work) and I tell them that I stay at home they always give me a blank look like they don't know what to say next. Whereas, a few years ago the vast majority of women stayed at home it just isn't the norm any more. Sometimes I tell them why I don't work and sometimes I don't - depends who they are. The ones that I tell about my depression are then happy that there is an explanation for it.

Can you imagine people's reaction if I didn't have depression and still didn't go out to work?

[Amber Sunshine]

I'm not very tall, weigh 7st, and have never been near a gym in my life, but if anyone ever hassled me they would regret it. Wouldn't think it to look at me, but I have a surprising amount of strength and if I ever got really !!!!ed off I think even I would be astonished at the results.

It's funny you should use the Mike Tyson comparison, as i'm very tall and an ex bodybuilder, although I think I have a kinder face than Iron Mike :o I'm also shaven headed and walk around with a growl :o

I may look scary (!) but i'm actually very gentle.

I know it's the other people that have the problem, and most people don't bother me. It's just when it affects things such as jobs and relationships. It seems jobwise I always get told that retail/care work isn't my thing and I should be looking for Builder or general 'mens' work and relationship wise - it just doesn't happen. I just attract promiscuous and shallow girls that think i'm up for one thing :o

I dread to think what people would think if I had tattoos and a motorbike!

[Sssssss]

She has made a comment on occasion that if I pay by cheque it can be a bit awkward for her (Ive no idea why). The last time I went to her I paid by cheque because I wasn't sure how much my hair was going to be and it was just more convenient for me than withdrawing £60-£70 and then finding it still wasn't enough! She said "Gosh, not many of my clients pay by cheque nowadays"

Hi BB as already said I wouldn't worry about it, she just wanted cash so could keep it off the books. But 60 - 70 quid for a hair do :eek: easy for me to say as I'm bald :p opps just gave you all a clue there.

Okay go on I'd love to know how you all picture me from my posts, go on I dare you judge me if you wil :)

[alison99]

Hi BB as already said I wouldn't worry about it, she just wanted cash so could keep it off the books. But 60 - 70 quid for a hair do :eek: easy for me to say as I'm bald :p opps just gave you all a clue there.

Okay go on I'd love to know how you all picture me from my posts, go on I dare you judge me if you wil :)

Please say Ross Kemp. ;):j

[absolutebounder]

Okay go on I'd love to know how you all picture me from my posts, go on I dare you judge me if you wil :)
Kojak possibly :D

[Sssssss]

Kojak possibly :D

who luvs ya baby!

[Amber Sunshine]

Hi BB as already said I wouldn't worry about it, she just wanted cash so could keep it off the books. But 60 - 70 quid for a hair do :eek: easy for me to say as I'm bald :p opps just gave you all a clue there.

Okay go on I'd love to know how you all picture me from my posts, go on I dare you judge me if you wil :)

Elton John :D

[absolutebounder]

When people ask me what I do (ie for work) and I tell them that I stay at home they always give me a blank look like they don't know what to say next. Whereas, a few years ago the vast majority of women stayed at home it just isn't the norm any more. Sometimes I tell them why I don't work and sometimes I don't - depends who they are. The ones that I tell about my depression are then happy that there is an explanation for it.

Can you imagine people's reaction if I didn't have depression and still didn't go out to work?
Reworded answer for you
"I dont work I look after the home for my husband while he works to keep me in the manner i deserve."
then you can add "By the way do you have to work to support your husband"

[beachbeth]

Reworded answer for you
"I dont work I look after the home for my husband while he works to keep me in the manner i deserve."
then you can add "By the way do you have to work to support your husband"

I like that!:T

[absolutebounder]

I like that!:T
Its called reframing and you can use it to change the view of a situation. If you want to see it done really well read the headlines of the same situation in different newspapers and see how the daily mail reports something compared to the mirror.

[whitevanwoman]

V clever, AB!

[absolutebounder]

Following on from judgemental people. How do you deal at present with a person you see as judgemental.?
What do you do? Avoid them? Crack up and go to pieces? have an argument with them? How do you cope?
Would you like to learn how to deal with them?

[Sssssss]

Following on from judgemental people. How do you deal at present with a person you see as judgemental.?
What do you do? Avoid them? Crack up and go to pieces? have an argument with them? How do you cope?
Would you like to learn how to deal with them?

there is one woman at my work who is always moaning, judging and putting people down. I generally tend to avoid her as I see it as her problem the sad old cow. But yeah would love to know if there is a better way of dealing with her.

[beachbeth]

Most judgemental people I just avoid and if I can't do this I just reply to them in a way that shows that I don't really care about their opinion and don't agree with them.

My mum, however, is different. I find it hard to deal with her because I love her and know she is just trying to help. She is very biased about what she thinks I should or should not do though as it is based on what is best for her usually.:o

I usually make an excuse as to why I can't do what she wants or I pretend to agree just to keep the peace, as I can't be bothered to argue (she is always right so you won't change her mind and its a waste of energy trying).

[absolutebounder]

there is one woman at my work who is always moaning, judging and putting people down. I generally tend to avoid her as I see it as her problem the sad old cow. But yeah would love to know if there is a better way of dealing with her.
Well you are not too far off. It usually is their problem and they are often covering up for their own deficiencies. Ie make you worry about yours so they dont have to confront theirs. the secret i use is to attack the presuppositions in their judgement. any sentence tends to presuppose something that isnt actually said eg Im at the front of the room presupposes that one could be sat at the back of the room. but then being sat at the front of the room depends on which angle you look at the room from. If you can work out what the judgemental person is presupposing you can alter things around. In BBs case about the why doesnt she work. There is a presupposition that she could work and therefore because she doesnt she is deficient or lower in status compared to someone who does work but if you look at my reworded answer it gives the option to completely turn the tables back on the questioner.. If you hesitate after someone asks a question you give yourself time to work a suitable answer out. If the person asks why you hesitate just answer that you are considdering their question fully out of respect so that you completely understand what they are asking. This puts them off their guard and you can then turn the tables on them.

[jess8905]

Hi, I've just come across this thread and read it page to page, you all have very interesting and helpful things to share, especially absolutebounder, the tips you give about how to deal with certain situations are excellent and I feel more confident about being in such situations in the future.

[alison99]

Following on from judgemental people. How do you deal at present with a person you see as judgemental.?
What do you do? Avoid them? Crack up and go to pieces? have an argument with them? How do you cope?
Would you like to learn how to deal with them?

I tend to judge myself way more than anyone else does, I think I do it so nobody else can hate me more than I hate myself, crazy logic I know, but it does stop me isolating myself from everyone around me. How do I deal with that?

[Miroslav]

I tend to judge myself way more than anyone else does, I think I do it so nobody else can hate me more than I hate myself, crazy logic I know, but it does stop me isolating myself from everyone around me. How do I deal with that?

I do the same. No-one can be harder on myself than me.

[Miroslav]

Can you imagine people's reaction if I didn't have depression and still didn't go out to work?

I don't work due to depression and anxiety and people think i'm okay. They don't know why I can't work as I appear 'normal' in their words.

Sadly, people who don't work are all classed as spongers. :(

I don't mind if they want me to work with them in a small environment, as long as they realise, if I feel pressured, I will react badly and they will then wish I was off work :rolleyes:

I have a medical due. God help the working folk if I have to get a job, they'll be begging me to get signed off again!

[Miroslav]

oi I have two tattoos and a motorbike:rotfl:
i can understand the job thing as retail relies on image (often fake) so much.

It also depends on what your tattoos are, and how big they are, as to how you are judged.

A small rose gets a different reaction to a big dragon.

[absolutebounder]

It also depends on what your tattoos are, and how big they are, as to how you are judged.

A small rose gets a different reaction to a big dragon.
I have two cats (panthers) but they are not on show unless I am only wearing a vest.. People will judge you with tatoos because you are in effect asking to be judged and looked at. just the same as a woman who wears large ear rings say. Historicaly the way we decorated our bodies said a lot about us. men used war paint to make themselves more scary nowdays some tattoos are equivalent to war paint. lipstick was first used by egyptian prostitutes to show what their speciality was. an ankle bracelet was a sign of a prostitute. Most of these symbols are now not so important and have had their use corrupted but it doesnt mean that you are not asking to be looked at and judged by some people.
Im afraid that if you want to meet warm friendly considerate people you will find it much easier if you look the part.

[Space donkey]

I tend to judge myself way more than anyone else does, I think I do it so nobody else can hate me more than I hate myself, crazy logic I know, but it does stop me isolating myself from everyone around me. How do I deal with that?
I used to be the same but slowly I have found that the less I criticise myself the more people seem receptive towards me.

[CCStar]

I find women in their 50s to be very judgmental. I am not much younger than they are but they seem to treat anyone under their age like naughty kids. They are easily spotted as they have a dyed blonde bob or short dark hair and wear boxy jackets with skirts. They look at younger people with distain and don't smile. People who are older 70s plus and greyer, tend to be easy going

It really annoys me, so I tend to be very sarcastic with them and have a smirk on my face. I can see it makes them angry and then I laugh at them. If they treated me like an equal, I would be nicer to them.

I don't generally do this to people unless I feel peed off with them.

My mother, picks on me if I speak badly on occasion or if I am loud, yet she is loud, yet lets my son be an idiot. I know she is under stress just now, so let it go, but it used to get to me when I was younger. We would end up in arguments as if I want to talk badly, it is my right to be able to. I like experimenting with accents and feel squashed by her when she does this.

I get annoyed at men being patronising to women and being normal to males. I tend to be honest about how they conduct themselves - they don't like their weaknesses being exposed and it can lead to arguments.

[Miroslav]

I have two cats (panthers) but they are not on show unless I am only wearing a vest.. People will judge you with tatoos because you are in effect asking to be judged and looked at. just the same as a woman who wears large ear rings say. Historicaly the way we decorated our bodies said a lot about us. men used war paint to make themselves more scary nowdays some tattoos are equivalent to war paint. lipstick was first used by egyptian prostitutes to show what their speciality was. an ankle bracelet was a sign of a prostitute. Most of these symbols are now not so important and have had their use corrupted but it doesnt mean that you are not asking to be looked at and judged by some people.
Im afraid that if you want to meet warm friendly considerate people you will find it much easier if you look the part.

Tattoos are often for show and those wanting attention. Not always the case, but tattoos are often not for oneself, but for the view of others. Whether the opinions of those viewing are right or not, we have the right to reject it.

When people go out, it is often to dress for the approval of others, rather than for ourselves, although I feel I do it for myself, to make me feel better. If you make yourself feel better, hopefully others will notice you feel okay about yourself.

[absolutebounder]

I find women in their 50s to be very judgmental. I am not much younger than they are but they seem to treat anyone under their age like naughty kids. They are easily spotted as they have a dyed blonde bob or short dark hair and wear boxy jackets with skirts. They look at younger people with distain and don't smile. People who are older 70s plus and greyer, tend to be easy going

It really annoys me, so I tend to be very sarcastic with them and have a smirk on my face. I can see it makes them angry and then I laugh at them. If they treated me like an equal, I would be nicer to them.

I don't generally do this to people unless I feel peed off with them.

My mother, picks on me if I speak badly on occasion or if I am loud, yet she is loud, yet lets my son be an idiot. I know she is under stress just now, so let it go, but it used to get to me when I was younger. We would end up in arguments as if I want to talk badly, it is my right to be able to. I like experimenting with accents and feel squashed by her when she does this.

I get annoyed at men being patronising to women and being normal to males. I tend to be honest about how they conduct themselves - they don't like their weaknesses being exposed and it can lead to arguments.
Honesty often hurts but Im like you I say what Im thinking and dont often apologise for my views. I can be very sarcastic but Im also aware that sarcasm is often a defence mechanism.
Im not sure I agree with you about women in their 50s. I guess I believe women of all ages can be patronising. i find there is a horrible breed of woman in london that drives chardoney and jocasta to school two blocks away in the BMW 4X$ and then cant park it so abandons it in the road and gets extremely rude if one says anything.
I like taking the mickey out of women but only coz they bite and Im only joking anyway.
parents of course come under different rules as even if you are a pensioner you are still their little girl.

[CCStar]

Honesty often hurts but Im like you I say what Im thinking and dont often apologise for my views. I can be very sarcastic but Im also aware that sarcasm is often a defence mechanism.
Im not sure I agree with you about women in their 50s. I guess I believe women of all ages can be patronising. i find there is a horrible breed of woman in london that drives chardoney and jocasta to school two blocks away in the BMW 4X$ and then cant park it so abandons it in the road and gets extremely rude if one says anything.
I like taking the mickey out of women but only coz they bite and Im only joking anyway.
parents of course come under different rules as even if you are a pensioner you are still their little girl.
I have heard of them but haven't come across them but see a few 4 x 4s drivers drop their kids off at the school next to me.

The 50 something women are OK to men.

[absolutebounder]

I used to be the same but slowly I have found that the less I criticise myself the more people seem receptive towards me.
Happy birthday sazbo.

No one should really criticise yourself. If you find yourself doing this its because you feel you are are not living up to your expectations of what other people expect you to be.
Unfortunately you were not born with the resources to be what someone else wants you to be. You can pretend but you cant be the real deal. You only have the resources to be yourself and you have to accept that. Once you accept yourself you will find what an inticate and wonderful person you are and once you be that person others will be drawn to you and you will find a few genuine friends.
it is very difficult to love or even like some one that doesnt like themselves.

[Sazbo]

Thanks AB xx I know this thread is a hug-free zone, but I'm afraid I've never been a respecter of rules, so have a big hug from me anyway and what the heck, same to anyone who wants one, or indeed doesn't want one:D:D :wave:

Much love to all,
Sazzy xxxxxxxxxx

[absolutebounder]

Thanks AB xx I know this thread is a hug-free zone, but I'm afraid I've never been a respecter of rules, so have a big hug from me anyway and what the heck, same to anyone who wants one, or indeed doesn't want one:D:D :wave:

Much love to all,
Sazzy xxxxxxxxxx
well I never said hugs were banned or even bad.

Im off to kenya for two weeks later today so keep the thread going with you experiences of success.
Just to help you think things through heres a couple of things that have been poted before.
1) to challenge your thoughts
What will happen if you do ‘X’
What wont happen if you do ‘X’
What will happen if you don’t do ‘X’
What wont happen if you don’t do ‘X’


And to challenge other people Try working through the flashcards in this site http://www.nlpls.com/articles/metamodel/MetaModelFlashcards.php

[beachbeth]

Im off to kenya for two weeks later today

Lucky you! I wish I was off to sunnier climes. Don't even know if we're going away at all this year. :( Have a good time - this thread will be strange without you.:o

[alison99]

Have a great time AB, and no scaring the wildlife ;), It'll be odd here without you.

[shazrobo]

have a good time AB

[worried 1]

I'm sorry that I am sending you this message, but I am desperate, depressed and beyond despair. I suffer from mental health issues, and I did a terrible terrible thing at work which ended up with me getting the boot :-(

These past few months have been very very difficult for me, and I have been taking on everyone's problems while losing site of own. I ended up falsifying and putting extra days down on my timesheet at work for the last few months, and I have been caught out.I owe over a thousand pounds(or could be more), and I have explained and emailed my employer and the agency that I am prepared to pay back every penny that I owe. I did not mean for this to happen, and I am now worried that I will end up in prison or with a criminal record, if they do decide to pursue this through the courts( which they say they might do). I am not proud of what I have done, but I was desperate and I was not in the right frame of mind to think of the consequences of my actions. From what they see, its a very very serious crime that I have done, and although I except it, the guilt is eating me up inside and I am beside myself with worry.

Initially I was too scared to post on the board in case I got abuse, but as I sent a PM to the thread starter I was encouraged to explain on the boards.

I have an appointment with my GP next week, but feel that I have let myself down big time..I have been to the GP in the past for my depression and anxiety, but everytime I feel like I am getting somewhere positive, I end up taking 2 steps back. I am having difficulty in coping, and court will push me over the edge. Please offer me some words of advice at this difficult time

[absolutebounder]

Lucky you! I wish I was off to sunnier climes. Don't even know if we're going away at all this year. :( Have a good time - this thread will be strange without you.:o
Ha ha I am worried it may be a bit of bad planning as may is the rainy season.
I asked worried 1 to post here so please give support and all the help you can

[absolutebounder]

BB good luck with tribunal in my absence

[Sssssss]

I'm sorry that I am sending you this message, but I am desperate, depressed and beyond despair. I suffer from mental health issues, and I did a terrible terrible thing at work which ended up with me getting the boot :-(

These past few months have been very very difficult for me, and I have been taking on everyone's problems while losing site of own. I ended up falsifying and putting extra days down on my timesheet at work for the last few months, and I have been caught out.I owe over a thousand pounds(or could be more), and I have explained and emailed my employer and the agency that I am prepared to pay back every penny that I owe. I did not mean for this to happen, and I am now worried that I will end up in prison or with a criminal record, if they do decide to pursue this through the courts( which they say they might do). I am not proud of what I have done, but I was desperate and I was not in the right frame of mind to think of the consequences of my actions. From what they see, its a very very serious crime that I have done, and although I except it, the guilt is eating me up inside and I am beside myself with worry.

Initially I was too scared to post on the board in case I got abuse, but as I sent a PM to the thread starter I was encouraged to explain on the boards.

I have an appointment with my GP next week, but feel that I have let myself down big time..I have been to the GP in the past for my depression and anxiety, but everytime I feel like I am getting somewhere positive, I end up taking 2 steps back. I am having difficulty in coping, and court will push me over the edge. Please offer me some words of advice at this difficult time

Hi and welcome, I'm sure you'll find some good support here. I think going to see your GP is a good first move. As for work try not to worry too much (I know easy for me to say), a few thoughts, were your time sheets not signed off by a manager or supervisor? if so they are also responsible to make sure they are accurate. Also you have offered to pay them back. Hopefully with the support of your doctor and taking all this into account you can try and settle this without the police getting involved. Good luck and keep posting. Sssssss.

[Miroslav]

worried 1 - Hopefully it won't come to anything legal.

Hopefully your GP will back you up. It always helps when a professional is on hand. It makes people take notice of your side of things more.

[CCStar]

Keeping this bumped up as it is very helpful:)

[worried 1]

I saw my GP yesterday and I am now on anti-depressants, been signed off sick and have been referred to counselling for treatment. I explained what I did and the other things that have happened in my personal life for the past few months, and he explained that with all this happening it might have been the cause that affected my logical thinking. I still feel ashamed and guilty for what I did and just can't seem to let these feelings go.

I emailed my ex employer to let her know about my current situation even though I am sacked, and today is D Day where they decide whether to take this further. I am a bundle of nerves and I am sitting here expecting the worse.I just have this sinking feeling that they(especially the agency) will dismiss what I have said and take it to court as they see it as a crime(which I know it is). I feel they are more concerned in recovering the money, even though I explained that I would like to come to an arrangement/payment plan to pay what I owe.

Just feeling so low :-(

[Sssssss]

Hi beachbeth, sorry for the late message, I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Please let us know how it goes.
Be strong Sssssss.

[Sssssss]

I saw my GP yesterday and I am now on anti-depressants, been signed off sick and have been referred to counselling for treatment. I explained what I did and the other things that have happened in my personal life for the past few months, and he explained that with all this happening it might have been the cause that affected my logical thinking. I still feel ashamed and guilty for what I did and just can't seem to let these feelings go.

I emailed my ex employer to let her know about my current situation even though I am sacked, and today is D Day where they decide whether to take this further. I am a bundle of nerves and I am sitting here expecting the worse.I just have this sinking feeling that they(especially the agency) will dismiss what I have said and take it to court as they see it as a crime(which I know it is). I feel they are more concerned in recovering the money, even though I explained that I would like to come to an arrangement/payment plan to pay what I owe.

Just feeling so low :-(

Hi worried 1 hope it turns out ok, please keep us informed. As I said in one of my pervoius posts did someone in the company not have to countersign your timesheets, this is how it worked when I worked as a consultant and therefore the emphasis is on them also to make sure the time sheets are correct. If the agency do try to take further action point this out to them.
Yes you did wrong but they need to see you have offered to make good your debt to them.

[worried 1]

Sssssss

This is where I did bad, although my timesheet was signed off by management for the days that I did. I ashamedly admit that I went away altered the timesheet, filled in other days that I wasn't there, then faxed it off to the agency. I don't know what I was thinking and did not think about the consequences. I feel sick with worry not only for that but other problems going on in my life at the moment.

Still awaiting the dreaded phonecall :-(

[worried 1]

I received an email, a very supportive one come to that and they have decided that I can make arrangements to pay it back. Although I'm relieved that its not going to court, I can't help feeling disgusted with myself and guilty. I'm still felling low and can't seem to get the motivation to get it together.

Can't believe I have to wait quite a while to see a counsellor, seems that the waiting list is very long.

[beachbeth]

Hi beachbeth, sorry for the late message, I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Please let us know how it goes.
Be strong Sssssss.

Thanks, Sssssss. I wasn't in my tribunal very long and they gave me the points to reinstate my IB!:T Im so relieved!

[roxalana]

congrats BB

worried - feelings of guilt are there to help us to stop doing bad things again cos we don't want to feel bad again. But they can go too far. I think it is important to recognise it is a normal feeling but also to recognise that going over and over things in your head doesn't necessarily help. Think about why you did it and learn from the mistake. You can't do anything to change the past but you can use it to have a more positive future...

Perhaps you could make a small box of nice things about yourself (perhaps get others to contribute) so when you are feeling bad you can look at it and remind yourself you aren't a bad person.

I made something similar for my friend recently - it is her 'little box of hugs and wishes'. This is a small gift box with a bit of shiny confetti (hearts & stars) and little scraps of paper in it. I wrote a few nice things to start her off (wicked sense of humour, great hair!) the idea is she and her friends and rellies add to it. She can read nice things when she feels blue and if she really wants something she writes it on the 'wish' paper and adds it to the box - as the hugs help the wish to come true ;)

[beachbeth]

I mentioned a while ago that I help my dad out with some paperwork and was worrying about telling my parents I couldn't do it any more.

Well, I plucked up the courage at the weekend and told mum I wasn't going to do it and she was absolutely fine about it. She even said she had been thinking herself that I shouldn't do it any more!

This just goes to show how we imagine feelings and thoughts of others and convince ourselves that they are going to react a certain way. I think when you are suffering with depression you do this even more so. Its easy when you are low yourself to convince yourself that everyone dislikes you and is going to react negatively to you and it can be a surprise when they don't!

Hope everyone is ok - its been very quiet on here since AB went on his hols!

[absolutebounder]

Hope everyone is ok - its been very quiet on here since AB went on his hols!
Im back but I need a little time to catch up.

[absolutebounder]

I received an email, a very supportive one come to that

This just shows that one cant second guess the future. One shouldnt worry about the future too much as it may never happen

and they have decided that I can make arrangements to pay it back. Although I'm relieved that its not going to court, I can't help feeling disgusted with myself and guilty. I'm still felling low and can't seem to get the motivation to get it together.

Guilt is a nasty emotion but you shouldnt really feel it as it tends to be there because you are worried about other peoples perceptions of you.

Can't believe I have to wait quite a while to see a counsellor, seems that the waiting list is very long.
There isnt a person here that hasnt done something they regretted or are ashamed of. Its not the fact that you did it that counts but much more so how you put it right. Paying it back may be hard but at least it will let you show what you really can do and should help your self esteem.

[absolutebounder]

Thanks, Sssssss. I wasn't in my tribunal very long and they gave me the points to reinstate my IB!:T Im so relieved!
Well done.
Rather as in my post to worried1 above, we do not know the future. If you read someof your previous posts and see how depressed youi were you can now see that all is not doom and gloom and the future can be good. Your depression is actually giving you the things you said in a previous post that you wanted. Now is the time to accept that you dont have to worry about work or income (thats hubbys job) and you can get on with being a houseperson without worrying about what other people think. I guess when thats done the depression will lift somewhat.

[Jo_R]

I'd love to go back to work. I'm worried I wouldn't be able to handle it. Baby's still a bit young yet and we can manage with just OH working, but I'd love to be getting out of the house, not only earning money but stimulating my brain - I crave that again. Ideally working maybe 2/2.5/3 days then having a couple of days with the kids.

I just don't want to set myself up to fail if I find myself not wanting to leave the house, not able to manage and so on. Oh what to do :confused:

[absolutebounder]

I just don't want to set myself up to fail if I find myself not wanting to leave the house, not able to manage and so on. Oh what to do :confused:
In what way specifically would you be failing if you found you didnt want to go out of the house