Teeth and dentists

[Emmy]

If I wanted to complain about some dental work I had years ago who should I write to or see. Because of this bad professional judgement I am still affected today, I am going to need around £4k worth of treatment and I just got angry that because of this mans bad decision I am now having to go through this pain both physically and finacially.......
Any ideas????
Thanks :D

[Toothsmith]

You could try THESE (http://www.dentallaw.co.uk/) guys.
I'd be sure you have a cast iron case though, and like all No Win / No Fee lawyers, beware the small print.

Can you absolutely guarentee that it was the dentist's bad decisions, and nothing to do with how you've looked after your teeth?

[Sofa_Sogood]

You could try THESE (http://www.dentallaw.co.uk/) guys.
I'd be sure you have a cast iron case though, and like all No Win / No Fee lawyers, beware the small print.

Can you absolutely guarentee that it was the dentist's bad decisions, and nothing to do with how you've looked after your teeth?

Hi Toothsmith :)

I think I've got a cast iron case, as the dentist that put it right said I'd been 'butchered' :(

But, and it's a big but ... would I seriously affect the 'offenders' reputation and possible earnings? Or will he be insured for things like that? (I know he'll be insured, but I mean for things like his credibility and capability as a dentist?)

It's not a money thing btw, it's just that I saw another of his patients in as much pain and discomfort as I was in, and imho, he shouldn't be doing dentistry for a living ...

[Toothsmith]

It all depends on the direction the case took.

If it went up to the General dental Council for a Serious Professional Misconduct hearing, then he could well be struck off either temporarily or, more rarely, for good.

Those that are struck off temporarily are often closely supervised when they return.

Any finacial award against a dentist should be covered by professional indemnity insurance.

If you are taking action against a dentist it has to be started within 6 years of you becoming aware of the mistreatment.

I.E, so long as you don't know you've been mistreated, the clock is not running. Once you find out, you've got 6 years to begin any action.

Be careful though. I do not have a high opinion of lawyers (As some people don't about dentists) and some of the practices of the dental law groups are a bit on the shady side themselves! Think about all the possibilities for both sides before you begin!

I would never tell a patient 'I think you've been butchered'. I don't think it's a very professional thing to say.

I would always try to winkle out the full story of someones previous dental patterns before jumping to any conclusions over a colleagues work.

I once had a patient attend as a new patient. Seemed a lovely lady, bright and articulate. Wall to wall gunk and plaque all over her mouth - and she said she'd last seen a hygienist 6 weeks before hand!

I did not know what to say, but I was thinking 'What a RUBBISH hygienist!'

I bluffed my way through it, and booked her in to see my hygienist for 4 appointments to gently remove the cack 1/4 of the mouth at a time under anaesthetic.

During the treatment my hygienist was telling me how hard she was to treat. She shuffled and fidgeted and constantly needed breaks, but she got through it.

A couple of months later, I saw her again to review things. - Wall to wall plaque & gunk and breath of dog!!! I'm glad I didn't say anything to her about how bad her previous dental practice had treated her!!

I'm not even beginning to suggest that anything like that is your problem Sofa, but to my mind a dentist that uses words like 'butchered' should be watched very carefully.

Proceed with caution - maybe even another opinion before getting lawyers involved would be worthwhile.

[Emmy]

Well, Toothsmith...I'll tell you exactly what happened (whilst trying to remain composed, as this does upset me) When I was 11 years old I wrote a letter to my dentist saying that I hated my two front teeth as they 'stuck out' and could he pull them out and give me a denture.... "of course I can....come in and we will fix that for you" so two perfectly healthy teeth were removed on the request of an 11 year old girl....now my bridge keeps failing and it has been suggested that implants would be suitable....but at around 4k it is alot of money.....I just don't reallly know what to do....but I am so self concious about my teeth.....not the only dentist to let me down either...
I am also having to go to a dental teaching hospital to attempt to rectify a problem that if caught early enough by my dentist could have been avoided. my lower gum was joined too high and kept ripping my gum....eventually it all became infected, ripped again, infected again now I have no gum surrounding the tooth and the bone in the bottom of my jaw has started to die....apparently this COULD have been avoided if he had referred me to have that bit of gum 'snipped' some 18 years ago when I first complained it was happening.....
And I hate going but I have always been never missed a six month appointment ....really sad :(

[Sofa_Sogood]

It all depends on the direction the case took.

If it went up to the General dental Council for a Serious Professional Misconduct hearing, then he could well be struck off either temporarily or, more rarely, for good.

Those that are struck off temporarily are often closely supervised when they return.

Any finacial award against a dentist should be covered by professional indemnity insurance.

If you are taking action against a dentist it has to be started within 6 years of you becoming aware of the mistreatment.

I.E, so long as you don't know you've been mistreated, the clock is not running. Once you find out, you've got 6 years to begin any action.

Be careful though. I do not have a high opinion of lawyers (As some people don't about dentists) and some of the practices of the dental law groups are a bit on the shady side themselves! Think about all the possibilities for both sides before you begin!

Thanks Toothsmith. My new dentist told my own daughter (a lawyer ... sorry :o ;)) that he'd never seen anything like it either.

It was less than six months ago - so I'm still wondering what to do anyway. The injury still hasn't healed up, so I've got another five years plus to think about it.

Thanks again ... I'll leave you to Emmy. (Sorry about jumping in Emmy and good luck)

[Emmy]

Thanks again ... I'll leave you to Emmy. (Sorry about jumping in Emmy and good luck)

It's okay....I am way passed the six year thingy so looks like it is no good anyhow :( typical!!!

[Toothsmith]

How long ago did this happen Emmy, and where were your parents?

Consent cannot be given by someone less than 16. (Unless apparently you need an abortion - but that's a different matter!!)

The bit about your gum could be defended as 18 years ago the thinking on gum problems was different than it is today.

As for the front teeth at the top - I'd need more info before I could judge whether it was as horrific at the time as it sounds today.


I'm signing off now - I'll read your reply tomorrow.

[Teerah]

I would never tell a patient 'I think you've been butchered'. I don't think it's a very professional thing to say.





Thats exactly what I was going to say, completely unprofessional. Good luck with getting things sorted tho sofa

[Emmy]

Thanks toothsmith, not sure what other info you need but my two front top teeth were perfectly healthy...just a bit big, but I am sure I would have grown into them...if you know what I mean :) I remember writing a letter to my then dentist saying 'Dear Mr Dentist, I am withdrawing £30 from my post office account and I am buying some new clothes and I would love for you to take out my front teeth as they stick out and give me false ones' My parents (especially my mum) didn't want them taken out but was guided by what the dentist said...you know the professional (sorry that sounds critical doesn't it!!) He said that I could have a bridge in ( I did but after 13 years of wearing a denture) I was 11 and I am now 35..... sh1te you know I am crying writing this. I feel this was awfuk to do this to two healthy teeth at the requst of someone so young ( with or without parental consent)

With regard to my gum problem, I have been going to my dentist for 18 years with this 'problem' ( I don't know if I have explained it properly?? you know the little bit of skin that joins on to your lip and bottom of gum, well mine was joined quite high hence the ripping) but this is at the front on my lower teeth, it started like I say where the gum just 'ripped' salt water and the dentist said no more to be done.....eventually after so many years of my dentist repeating nothing could be done it gets to the stage where I have so little gum around the bottom of my tooth almost the root of my tooth is showing (teaching hospital don't know how it has held in!!) It has also caused my tooth to push itself up, it is extremely wobbly. I asked my dentist to refer me to teaching hospital as I couldn't believe that we can send a man to the moon but not fix my tooth....my dentist then said to me...."if only we had performed a little cut in your gum to stop it from continuing to rip we may not have got to this" Well, I nearly strangled him!!!! :( so for years he has been telling me "nothing to be done" then when it is too late he says "if only we had......"

Now the teaching hospital are going to fit me with a bridge (after, bear with me, supporting my teeth from the back then cutting the tooth and "flicking" out the root, so I spend 6 months with like asplint holding it in place!!!) I have given up now....I don't know what is best....I am sat here again with another infection in my gum (need antibiotics but I have been to the doctor so many times he won't allow me to have anymore and (I love this bit) advises me to get my dentist to sort it out ) whilst waiting to go back to the hospital.....I did ask about implants for the bottom but as this has been (i feel) mishandled and ignored even in the last two years never mind 18.... the bone in my jaw has died and it looks like another tooth will go the same way according to the xray........

I am adult enough to know that because of my bad experiences with a dentist not all dentists are rubbish ( but it does mean I need 4mg of diazipam to go now!!) I think that I feel overwhelmingly let down by the two dentists I have been to. Like I say there hasn't been a period in my life where I haven't attended the dentist as i wanted to look after my teeth but in my efforts I seem to have achieved the opposite.

I just need a wonderul dentist to take me on and fix everything....
Thanks for listening
Emmy

[Sofa_Sogood]

Thats exactly what I was going to say, completely unprofessional. Good luck with getting things sorted tho sofa

Thanks Teerah. I just typed a post out and dial-up conked out, but it might reappear. If not, I would agree with you. I've never known one profession say anything bad against another profession, because in my eyes, it makes all of the profession look bad. I won't say what trade I'm in, apart from to say it involves a lot of safety, so although we don't always close ranks, it's usually wise if we stay schtum so to speak.

Despite the fact it's cost me upwards of £600 plus so far to put things right, some of which I'd have paid without seeing the other dentist - but it's still rising.

I'm sure if I typed enough, the dentist that originally caused so much damage could be identified, so I'll be vague.

What worried me was another of his patients was left in the same state as me, except she was on benefits. (Why aren't surgeries a bit more private? :confused: ) and I can only think the only step she could take was to go to A&E.
:(

I'm due back for more treatment next week, so although I won't mention 'butchery' - I'll ask him if he's anywhere near to finding out what happened to me and let you know.

Thanks again :)

[Sofa_Sogood]

I just need a wonderul dentist to take me on and fix everything....

Emmy

I'm sure you'll find one Emmy. Despite my new dentist being a bit 'unprofessional' about another dentist, he's fantastic.

I hope you find one, and soon :) x

[Toothsmith]

Hi Emmy.

It does sound like a very bad experience. I would ask next time you're at the dental hospital if you may have a case.

It is a bit to complicated to know for sure over a chat board like this.

Treatment options vary so much with time, and what was the right thing to do 20+ years ago seems barbaric now. I often wonder how what I'm doing today will be looked on in 20 years time. The best thing is always to do as little in the way of irreversible stuff as you can. That is quite a hard thing to do when you have a drill in your hand though.

It was still the norm right up to the 50s in some areas of the country for a bride's wedding present from her parents to be all her teeth out and her first set of dentures. To save her husband the future expense.

Best of luck with it.

[Emmy]

Hi Emmy.

It does sound like a very bad experience. I would ask next time you're at the dental hospital if you may have a case.

It is a bit to complicated to know for sure over a chat board like this.



Thanks :)
A case with which bit??

I know it is complicated but your feeling is???? I don't want you to write anything in blood but would value your professional opinion, please.
Emmy :)

[Toothsmith]

Thanks :)
A case with which bit??

I know it is complicated but your feeling is???? I don't want you to write anything in blood but would value your professional opinion, please.
Emmy :)

Possibly both.

Depends on many things though.

The reason for doing what was done (Or not done), the accepted standards at the time they were done. Consent issues surrounding the extractions (It does sound like you were very determined to have it done - despite your age)
Alternatives to what was done.

My feeling is it could well be a long drawn out legal battle.

[Emmy]

Okay....thank you....who should I ask then ?... I am not going to say it's not the money because yes that is a part of it when it could be upwards of 4k....but more than anything I want to get it sorted and stop feeling so emotional when anyone talks about teeth.
Emmy
Ps, I get terrible tooth envy, most women say "oh I wish I had her legs, or tummy" I just say "wow....lovely teeth!!" how sad...thanks toothsmith x

[Emmy]

just thinking about alternatives that would have been around at the time :
Extractions....braces? ignore me and tell me I was too young to make those decisions. I really don't see that the consent (from me) should be taken into account, I couldn't have fort for my country, got married, had (legal) sex as I was (rightly) deemed unable to make those decisions.
I don't know what the acceptable standards were 24 years ago though!

The gum situation....snip it....refer me to someone who could? follow up that referral until I got seen.....?????? no idea

[Toothsmith]

Your thoughts on alternatives are all correct.

What I can't do is get into the mind of the dentist as to why these weren't considered, but each does have several possible explanations. Or it could be just negligent. I can't say.

The consent thing that disturbs me about the tooth out is that your Mum DID know it was being done. She may have been persuaded against her judgement, but it would have been by you and the dentist. He must have seen a good case for it. I cannot begin to imagine what that case would have been, but taking your teeth out and making a denture would not have made him much money, and it doesn't sound like it was him who did the bridge? I can't think what his motivation to do it would have been other than he thought it was the best thing to do.

Ask the dentist you see at the dental hospital if he can see why it was done, and get in touch with a dental legal specialist such as the link I posted if you want to take it further. I doubt it will be a straight forward case though.

[Emmy]

Okay...if I am reading this correctly I was the only person that needed to give consent to the teeth taking out...yeah??
Don't know what his motives were other than to please an 11 year old....like I say they were healthy just a bit big for me LOL And no it wasn't him that did the bridge.
Thanks for your help
Emmy x

[shokadelika]

Ive seen nine dentists over the last 40 years they have all been rubbish! I'm still searching for a good one!The best Dentist I had was young talented and ambitious he ended up going to Harley Street ,the worst causing me to have an three hour double Apecectomy at the Dental Hospital caused by two root fillings that extened into my gums and caused constant infection.I have lost all faith in their proffession.

[Toothsmith]

Okay...if I am reading this correctly I was the only person that needed to give consent to the teeth taking out...yeah??
Don't know what his motives were other than to please an 11 year old....like I say they were healthy just a bit big for me LOL And no it wasn't him that did the bridge.
Thanks for your help
Emmy x

No - Your Mum would have had to have given the consent.

Did she at any point FORBID the dentist to do it? If not, that could be taken as consent.

Ideally, for the dentist's protection, he should have got her to sign something to say she understood what was going on and that she was in agreement.

This almost certainly did not happen.

The whole case would revolve around the conversations between your Mum and the dentist. Not your's.

[Emmy]

Okay...thanks toothsmith, my mum actually didn't have any conversations with the dentist she was "too digusted to talk about it" It was my dad that took me....should I ask him what was said to him and ask him did he sign something.
Emmy

[Toothsmith]

Yes. Whichever adult gave the go ahead.

[Teerah]

I would point out though that if an adult was present and allowed it to go ahead then this is implied consent. Also minors nowadays can give consent in certain situations after the Gillick competence ruling, though that is a relatively recent ruling and it would be hard to prove this after a long period of time. In relation to the gum problem, it does sound as though there are periodontal problems in addition to the high frenal attachment (the skin attachment thing) as this alone would not cause local bone destruction anywhere other than the buccal (lip side) surface where there was probably anatomically a very thin piece of bone to begin with. However, if a regular attender develops tooth loss through gum disease this could be where your case if ther is one lies. Again, I would get an opinion from the dental school you have been referred to.

[Emmy]

Teerah, I know what you mean but it is now called the Fraser competency, (same thing but Gillick wanted to be distanced so any professional should refer to it as the Fraser Competency now, sorry social work is my area)

i do have periodntal problems now....as a result if the high frenal attachment (thank you) the repeated ripping and infection has resulted in the bone loss (apparently)

I spoke to my parents today, it was my Dad who took me, he tells me he didn't sign anything nor was it presented to him in such a way that made dad feel uncomfortable ie, we will take the teeth out, fit a denture and once the gums have settled fit a bridge approx 6 moths later. Dads words were "he was the professional I trusted he knew what he was doing" Dad also threw some light on what was said after, the dentist then said after that it would be too expensive to fit a bridge, he also he felt it best for my face to stop growing.... I got my bridge 13 years later. So, in actual fact he didn't even do what he said prior to taking out my teeth.

Good points about my gums and a regular attender...thanks :D