Rights As A Patient

[patchwork cat]

This iasquite hard to put across without going into specifics so what I really want is advice about my rights as a patient or any advisory body that can help me with patients rights. I want a particular procedure that is quite new, but it is available in the next town. I have had a referral to the hospital in the next town, but the centralised phone line for Patient choice!!! would only let me pick between 3 appointment times and no choice of consultant. Now there is only one consultant that does this procedure in the hospital and I haven't had an appointment with him, but another consultant. I was up front with the reg I saw about what I wanted and why I was at this hospital and not my local PCT. His English was very poor, but he seemed VERY reluctant to even discuss this procedure and I feel that he is going to do all he can to make sure I do not see the Consultant that does the procedure I want ( which is indicated by my condition incidentally ). I don't want to go into the ins and outs of what is wrong.

Can anyone tell me what are my rights for asking them to refer me across to this other consultant and/or is there an advisory body I can contact for more advice.

[melancholly]

i guess it's difficult - if it's a new proceudure, then i can see how a doctor would feel they are best placed to decide if it's appropriate for you with their experience......i'm sure you have a right to a second opinion, but that may be difficult as you only really want to hear the opinion that you can have the procedure..... i don't know the best way to do it, but perhaps someone at your GP surgery would be able to advise?

[Toothsmith]

Most areas have a PALS service. Patient advisory and liason is what I think it stands for.

A sort of citizens advice service for the NHS.

Your PCT should know how to access it.

[suki1964]

Im wondering why you even saw a registrar and not a consultant as a first appointment? Or have things dumbed down in the NHS now as well?

Just one thing I would like to say, just because you want the procedure it doesnt mean its the right procedure for you and you might not be offered it and Im pretty sure you dont have the right to demand it. If the procedure is the right treatment for you then you will be referred on for it

However if you pay private Im sure you will find a consultant who will agree that you need wahtever it is you want, seeing as yourself or an insurance company will pay for it

[patchwork cat]

I don't want to debate whether it is the right treatment. I want to know merely what my rights are as a patient, really what I want to know is about the likes of patient choice etc.

[suki1964]

I don't want to debate whether it is the right treatment. I want to know merely what my rights are as a patient, really what I want to know is about the likes of patient choice etc.


But thats what i was trying to say to you. Patients choice doesnt always extend to what procedure you get

But hey ho, its a "I want and its my right" society we live in so maybe things have changed.:confused:

[patchwork cat]

No you misunderstand. I am OK if the consultant that can do this procedure says you are not suitable. I merely want to see the consultant that does the procedure and not a reg who sdmitted that they know nothing about it.

[suki1964]

I think then that you need to go back to your GP and ask him for a specific referral to the consultant of choice and then make the appointment to see him/her direct with the secretary.

I still say that if your Gp or the Reg who has already seen you feels that this procedure is the only way to go then you will be referred. And it looks like your GP didnt refer you directly

Seems that on the NHS choice your choice is time and date and what hospital - not who treats you

[nottslass]

The Reg will be working under a consultant,do you know who the consultant is ? If its not the one that has an interest in this new procedure,give the Consultants secretary a ring and ask (nicely) if you can be refereed to the Consultant of your choice.This will be a lot quicker than going back to your GP for a new referral.


Hope this Helps

[Toothsmith]

I think then that you need to go back to your GP and ask him for a specific referral to the consultant of choice and then make the appointment to see him/her direct with the secretary.

I still say that if your Gp or the Reg who has already seen you feels that this procedure is the only way to go then you will be referred. And it looks like your GP didnt refer you directly

Seems that on the NHS choice your choice is time and date and what hospital - not who treats you

In a lot of PCT areas nowadays it is next to impossible for a GP to have any say at all in where the patient goes.

Bean counters rule the roost, and it's much more to do with targets, and cost rather than patients wellbeing.

A proactive patient can cut through this though, which is why people like PALS can be a great help.

[sillyvixen]

But thats what i was trying to say to you. Patients choice doesnt always extend to what procedure you get

But hey ho, its a "I want and its my right" society we live in so maybe things have changed.:confused:
patient choice extends to nothing - i had a proceedure 3 years ago, loads of problems and a complete nightmare, i was treated as royalty by the consaultant - only dealt with by him and i had to wait in outpatients for follow up as he was called away to surgery- but wanted to see me personally!! all very good, when my discharge letter was sent to my gp it highlighted potential problems and stated that i should be re-refferd back to him if problems occured!! i was and had a 3 month delay to get a appointment in outpatients with his team - 10 weeks further down the line - i saw his registrar who decided to wait afurther 3 months before action was taken. i then saw a different member of the team who told me action should have been taken earlier. i eventually got onto a nd surgical list - i saw my consaultant in the carpark as i was attending for my op - was leaving. i was told on the ward he was still my consaultant but a different consaultant would be performing the op - i was only under his care as his name was written in pen on the bord over my bed - he never saw me - i was in for 4 days and was seen by another consaultants team - i was not his patient and i waited 11 months for an op when i could have had it in 6 on the list of the surgeon who did my op - the promises made by my consaultants team were not fulfiled by the other consaultant.:mad:

[patchwork cat]

sillyvixen this is sort of what I was thinking that if a treatment is offfered at a hospital, but not by my named consultant is it actually bureacracy that I have to be re-referred. I too have had a procedure carried out for something else by another consultant other than my named as mine didn't have a list that day.

I did say I didn't want to discuss my actual procedure and have been made to feel that it is my being stroppy when in fact it is necessity. The actual treatment that I require has been agreed it is the way of performing it that differs. One surgeon takes 6 weeks recovery, another a week. With 2 children to pick up from school every day and no one else to do it - it is a necessity that I be able to drive and function as soon as possible - hence my anxiety.

I firmly believe in informed choice and that ultimately your health is your responsibility. As a result when there are various methods of treatment or methods of acheiving the end result a patients requirements and preferences should be taken into account. My preferred treatment is actually much cheaper to the NHS which is why I can't understand the problem and feel that it comes down to hospital politics and perhaps petty jealouses.

[sparklymessygirl]

Hi PatchworkCat

I found this link
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/family_parent/health/nhs_patients_rights.htm#Seeingaconsultant

These are not legally enforceable rights though and it may be wise tactically to be very gentle in your enquiries, at least initially.

If you don't ask you don't get :)

Hope you keep us posted


Sparkly
P.S I like your signature!

[patchwork cat]

Thanks sparkly my gut feeling was to try and 'woo' the consultant into transferring me as if she would do it willingly life would be easier, but to be informed is good if she is unresponsive to pleasant overtones!!

[Glamazon]

Some PCT's don't allow GP's to refer to named consultants - we can but there is no guarantee that the patient will see that consultant. Most of the time the referral letter is seen by a consultant first and then he/she decides which patients he will see and which the registrar can see. I had major surgery and only ever met my consultant on the day of the op - not in any initial appts or follow ups.

I agree with contacting the secretary - perhaps see if you could speak to the consultant himself.

You may find if it's a new procedure that's outside of your PCT they may require funding as you aren't a patient in that particular PCT - you may need to get your GP to apply for funding from your own PCT if the consultant says you can go ahead. Imagine if only one hospital did a certain operation then everyone in the country could be referred there but it's not fair for the PCT to pick up the tab for the rest of the country's patients.

Your rights - probably contact PALS as Toothsmith suggested. You do get the choice of where you go and when but unfortunately can't say which consultant you want to see.

[princess]

Its very naive to say this Suki imho
'If the procedure is the right treatment for you then you will be referred on for it'
The NHS cant afford to offer the most effective treatment to everyone. In our department we provide what we can within our budget. I suppose we dont provide the WRONG treatment exactly, but cost is always considered as a priority and more effective treatments (if more expensive) are discouraged and the average patient would not even know they existed.

[patchwork cat]

The irony is princess as I say the treatment I would like to be considered for is much cheaper being an outpatient procedure and not a 6 day inpatient stay!

[suki1964]

Its very naive to say this Suki imho
'If the procedure is the right treatment for you then you will be referred on for it'
The NHS cant afford to offer the most effective treatment to everyone. In our department we provide what we can within our budget. I suppose we dont provide the WRONG treatment exactly, but cost is always considered as a priority and more effective treatments (if more expensive) are discouraged and the average patient would not even know they existed.

The procedure here isnt being refused though is it? Its just the method that the Op is "worried" may be refused. Of that we and indeed she, doesnt know for sure.

And being an outpatient manager for many years in the NHS Im well aware of how budgets are shared about. Indeed I myself was refused a treatment by the trust, even though the consultant employed by the trust had prescribed it over a two night hospital stay and an operation. Even though the treatment was the cheapest option, the trust hadn't agreed to fund it that year as it was new and there wasnt enough data to prove it was viable long term.( I ended up paying private as it was a treatment I myself wanted as well)

The Op here doesnt even know if shes being refused anything. Read her post and its all based on her feelings that the registrar whos English wasnt of the standard she would have prefered, seemed to feel that the traditional proven treatment was the way forward.The Op is none too happy and thinks for some reason that the reg out of some sort of pettiness is going to stop her getting the procedure she wants

[LondonDiva]

You have the right to be referred to a hospital of your choice if they carry out the procedure that a clinician believes is clinically neccessary for you (google Choose & Book).

However, you do not have a the right to demand to see a specific consultant at a hospital - you do if he/she is the only one there actually carrying it out. The referrring GP/ PCT can only pay the hospital for a service & it's up to the hospital to manage it's staffing & budget accordingly. Can you imagine the problems with the 18 week targets if everyone insisted on only seeing Mr X while the others had enough capacity?

It seems that the OP is unneccessarily over anxious and I would suggest to call to book a phone chat with the Registrar to discuss you concerns as a lot seem to be based on 'feelings' rather than a bottom line. The Hospital's PALS team should be of help.

It's unclear if you have been referred to the hospital for the procedure you want or if you have been referred for a condition which has a range of treatment options, including your preferred option.

BTW, you do realise that consultants were once registrars themselves & that registrars work under the direct supervision of a consultant??

[patchwork cat]

BTW, you do realise that consultants were once registrars themselves & that registrars work under the direct supervision of a consultant??
Is this directed at me? I have not muted that I have a problem with seeing a registrar I am well aware of the career progression to consultant.

As for Suki saying that his English was not of the level I would like - well I am sorry if it is unP.C., but when i am discussing something with regards to my health I do expect to understand the Dr and for them to understand me otherwise I am not recieving a good level of service am I. Misunderstandings are commonplace even between people who speak the same language fulently -this forum is a classic example - call me whatever you like, but I believe that to be fluent is essential. I couldn't care less if the Dr is green or if they are heavily accentated, but I do care that I can understand them and they understand me.

As usual this thread has gone of at a tangent. All I really wanted to know are wht are my rights as a patient to a particular treatment. If there are none well ther we are, but to go to my next appointment informed is I am sure you will agree a good idea. So London Diva if there is only one consultant in a hospital carrying out a particular procedure then I have the right to a referral,am I understanding that correctly?

[LondonDiva]

All I really wanted to know are wht are my rights as a patient to a particular treatment. If there are none well ther we are, but to go to my next appointment informed is I am sure you will agree a good idea. So London Diva if there is only one consultant in a hospital carrying out a particular procedure then I have the right to a referral,am I understanding that correctly?If it has been decided that thi si the only treatment you need, then yes.

however, from posts, it looks like there are other options also being considered and that you are the one who has identified this as the most appropriate procedure and not the treating / responsible clinician. In that case, their decision stands.

I would advise you to contact the PALS team at the hospital for a chat.

[suki1964]

If it has been decided that thi si the only treatment you need, then yes.

however, from posts, it looks like there are other options also being considered and that you are the one who has identified this as the most appropriate procedure and not the treating / responsible clinician. In that case, their decision stands.

I would advise you to contact the PALS team at the hospital for a chat.


What I already told the op back in post no4 but then it seems op didnt like that answer back then as she said she didn't want a debate as to if it were the right treatment or not. I have consistently told the op that if the treatment was deemed right for her then she would be referred for it.

But then the Op is definate that the registrar has some sort of vendetta against her, indeed she goes on to mention petty jealousies that are going to be stopping her getting the procedure she wants.

PatchworkCat,is it any wonder its gone off in a tangent when the answers you were given didnt suit you?