Road tax fine - advice please!

[freakedout]

Hi, am relieved ti find this forum: just got stopped by police today because they saw my Tax disc was 6 MONTHS OUT OF DATE!!!

I now realize after going over all my bank staements and old records that I had never received either a reminder to renew, nor did I get a penalty notice (6 weeks after tax expiry deadline?) nor have I gotten any other communication through the post or email. I paid it online last time, and got a confirmation email to tel me I would get it. You would think they could email me to remind me that I needed another soon!

I am now left with a £60 fine from the police, and an unknown fine from the DVLA lot - unknown til I find out on Monday- now am quite scared and as my user name says very freaked out- my weekend is ruined.

I am NOT a scam artist, I have no intention of defrauding the DVAL of their car tax... I merely have a life and did not think to check the car tax disc. I only use it probably once a week, and have never been late with it before.
Yes, 6 months is a long time, but not if one has a head full of a thousand other things to think about!

Can anyone help by at least telling me what I am likely to be facing as a fine?
DVLA helpline says I can only speak to someone to immediatly pay the fine... but not discuss the matter. Doesn't really help if I don't even know how much blood they want from me!!


(sorry btw also put this on end of a SORN thread)

[HappyMJ]

Your reminder is on the round bit of paper on the widscreen every time you get in the car. Nice big numbers so none of us forget...

It'll just be a £60 fine plus the outstanding tax.

[welshlil]

I'm not sure but I

[welshlil]

I'm not sure but I think you will have to cough up, you do not get a reminder for a M.O.T. - forgetfulness is not allowed in this case, perhaps putting a reminder on your calendar may help.

[zenmaster]

Looks like £80 (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/UntaxedVehicle/DG_4022059). Could be up to £1000 if you are a persistent offender, which I guess you are not.

I'm surprised you got a police fine as well. I would have thought it would be one penalty.

[HappyMJ]

Looks like £80 (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/UntaxedVehicle/DG_4022059). Could be up to £1000 if you are a persistent offender, which I guess you are not.

I'm surprised you got a police fine as well. I would have thought it would be one penalty.
OK £80 but why did the OP only get a £60 fine??? It'll only be one fine though. You won't get two fines for the same offence uinless you deecline the automatic penalty and go to court. The police won't ask for arrears of tax only the dvla will.

[hewhoisnotintheknow]

pay it and invest in a calendar

[Lorian]

I get a reminder in the post. Good job too or I'd be in the same boat.

I've paid last 2 years on the web, still get the postal reminder.

[Pennylane]

Take something positive from this - you will never, ever forget to renew your road tax again. PROMISE!!;) I well remember my son when he first had a credit card, paying at the end of the month and forgetting to allow time for it to go through. He was only charged a few quid but he was beside himself with rage because he wasn't earning much. I showed him the small print and he has never ever been late again. ;)

[mcspanna]

OK £80 but why did the OP only get a £60 fine??? It'll only be one fine though. You won't get two fines for the same offence uinless you deecline the automatic penalty and go to court. The police won't ask for arrears of tax only the dvla will.

Looks like the £60 is a police fine and the £80 will be the dvla fine...the only reason I can think of for no reminder is that the OP has moved house and not informed dvla. OP be warned, I'm not sure if the same applies now but we were in a similar situation several years ago and the £80 fines were not one offs but every month until the car was taxed.

[HappyMJ]

Looks like the £60 is a police fine and the £80 will be the dvla fine...the only reason I can think of for no reminder is that the OP has moved house and not informed dvla. OP be warned, I'm not sure if the same applies now but we were in a similar situation several years ago and the £80 fines were not one offs but every month until the car was taxed.
Thank you.

I'd say the OP is quite lucky not to have the car towed away at great cost as well as having the potential of a £1000 fine.

[nic_santorini]

yes, most of the above is right. £60 for the police fund and up to £1000 from the DVLA, usually just ask for the back dated tax. Lucky you have not had your car cubed for non-payment of car tax. Did you know that having no VEL also invalidates your insurance!! Just as well you did not have a claim too!

[freakedout]

thanks to all of you for your responses (even the sarky ones about buying a calendar)

I have lived in the same place for 10 years and had never any problems about getting a new re-licensing form through the post in a timely manner. Yes this IS a form of reminder, thank you very much.

So... if I understand all your responses:
I have to pay the police fine of £60 + DVLA fine of £80 + all the back tax + the new tax....?

Whew. I can live with all that I guess. I would have had to pay the tax anyway so theoretically it is not 'mine' as such even though it WILL hurt coming out in one go.

Yeah £140 fine is a !!!!! but I was really worried at a £1000 fine !!!

lets hope this is the case.

cheers

[flutterbyuk25]

The £60 fine is a police fine probably for failure to display a tax disc.

The DVLA fine will be £80 plus 2months arrears of road tax (in standard cases), this is for failure to relicence (tax) - separate offence to the Police.

OP - I suggest you check the address on your V5C/logbook incase you have overlooked a change of address. There is no need to be worried, just keep car off road til taxed, ring DVLA monday on 0870 240 0010 (8am to 8.30pm) - or look on saynoto0780 website for alternative - to find out if a fine has been issued, if one has been issued they will give you the tel no for the relevant Enforcement Office to ring to find out the outstanding amount and you can pay there and then and case will be closed. As the recorded line says they can only advised amount due and take payment, not discuss appeal, but as you have no appeal then you can ring them to pay.

[freakedout]

Thanks for that.

I have a local DVLA office that could probably help me do the paperwork and officially log it. So much for a relaxed Monday morning.

Am a bit miffed that my insurance has also not come through (should have been two weeks ago) thus leaving me even further stranded for paying tax asap...
If I could do it online they check automatically, I believe.

aaargh.


oh well. "these things are sent to try us."

thanks for all your advice.
I will reply when I have sorted it out and tell you what happened.

cheers.
slightly less freakedout

[MaximumImpact]

yes, most of the above is right. £60 for the police fund and up to £1000 from the DVLA, usually just ask for the back dated tax. Lucky you have not had your car cubed for non-payment of car tax. Did you know that having no VEL also invalidates your insurance!! Just as well you did not have a claim too!



Just to advise that it most certainly does not invalidate your insurance. Tax is Tax and insurance is insurance...just as having no insurance doesnt invalidate you tax disc...and having no MOT doesnt invalidate your tax or insurance and so on and so on...

[flutterbyuk25]

There is little need to go to your local DVLA office to be honest. You can pay the fine (if one has even been isued) over the phone once you've spoken with DVLA. You'll just be making an extra unecessary journey by going to the office!

Options for re-taxing:

1. Wait for insurance cert/cover note to come through post and tax at Post Office - needs to be original not fax/photocopy/downloaded one.
2. Tax online/by phone (assuming your address is correct on V5C) so insurance can be electronically checked - HOWEVER you will still need to wait for disc to come through the post before using vehicle on road, which is up to 5 working days.

So it's up to you which you think will be the quickest option.

The local DVLA office cannot tax the vehicle for you without you having the insurance certificate/cover note.

HTH

x

[freakedout]

Hi,
All sorted.

the basic sketch is:
My insurance new certificate (lost in post) number was same as old one.
New tax done online Sunday morn.
MOT and insurance checked automatically anyway... had owners certificate so merely needed to type in a number plus reg-plate. bingo = new years tax starting from Jan 1.

Visited DVLA office (on way to work ... by bicycle every day anyway) and paid wot - I owed for 5 months overdue tax. (couldn't do that online, but it DID flag up that I owed it)

Then called enforcement office from work and was told I owed £40 fine plus two months overdue tax, which I didn't understand why since I just paid it, and they didn't either so told me to call Swansea. Then after they checked with supervisor I was assured I only owed £40 for the fine, and all was good and case shut.

Everyone was nice and helpful, a big relief after a weekend of worrying about grey, cold-hearted bureaucrats demanding my first child and several years salary.

lesson learned, new plug-in for calendar on computer to remind me about all sorts, + corrected my address with all parties.

whew!

Still owe the cops £60 because the district court was closed for lunch for two hours (how primitive is that? What? never heard of people on lunch break trying to take care of business???)... which was the most frustrating part of the whole thing today.

thanks to all of you for your kind and varied advice.

not-at-all-freaked-out-any more.

[angel00079]

Just to advise that it most certainly does not invalidate your insurance. Tax is Tax and insurance is insurance...just as having no insurance doesnt invalidate you tax disc...and having no MOT doesnt invalidate your tax or insurance and so on and so on...

If it is in the T&C's I think that it can invalidate the insurance if not taxed etc.

[sarahg1969]

If it is in the T&C's I think that it can invalidate the insurance if not taxed etc.

Firstly, it's unlikely to be in the T&Cs of your insurance (I've certainly never seen it), and, secondly, the insurers would have to deal with any third party claims anyway (although they could pursue you for repayment). How would the insurers know it was untaxed, anyway?

[alanrowell]

How would the insurers know it was untaxed, anyway?Ask the DVLA

[Keith]

If it is in the T&C's I think that it can invalidate the insurance if not taxed etc.

Can you find one insurance company that asks that?

A car can legally be on the road without Road Tax if it is on it's way to a prebooked MOT test if it was involved in an accident would the insurance company waive it's duty to the 3rd party?

[MaximumImpact]

The DVLA do not hold insurance details, they are held by the MIB...Motor Insurers Database.

Insurance, tax and mot are dealt with by 3 seperate agencies and not having one does not invalidate the others.....

DVLA - Road Tax
VOSA - Mot
MIB - Insurance

If an out of date road tax disc meant your insurance was invalid then why are people not having their cars seized for no insurance as well as the £60 fine?? Because it doesnt invalidate your insurance.......

[sarahg1969]

Ask the DVLA

Of course, they could do that. But why would they? It would be very time consuming if they did that on every claim.

In any event, they would have no reason to, as it would not affect the claim (because being taxed is irrelevant usually).

[adouglasmhor]

Can you find one insurance company that asks that?

A car can legally be on the road without Road Tax if it is on it's way to a prebooked MOT test if it was involved in an accident would the insurance company waive it's duty to the 3rd party?


I am sure my insurance says something about "all apropriate licenses". I always assume that includes the "Road Fund Licence" which is Road Taxes Sunday name :confused:

[DCFC79]

If you have bad memory then you write down when your tax, your car insurance and your breakdown all expire and when to renew it. Its not hard to do, maybe buy a calender and write it on there, also id like to add that you do get a remonder well maybe not a reminder as such but you do get something in the post from dvla saying how much the tax for 12 months and 6 months would be