Been in first car accident tonight - what do I need to do

[lexilex]

Was on my way out tonight with my boyfriend, going for a meal, and someone went into the back of my car.

She's took total responsibility, admitted it was her fault, she saw me slowing down but for some reason it didn't click that she should brake too. We got all her details, not who she's insured with though she couldn't remember. Luckily a Police Community Support Officer was going past at the time and he rang up and checked for us that she was insured. She said she will be able to give us the nameonce we ring her at home and she's had time to get paper work out.

I had neck and back pain so went to a+e, waited 3 hours for an xray, only to be told my the dr I didn't need one, apparently it's bruising and just to go home, so now I'm in agony.

What do I need to do next? I've only been driving literally a year and have no idea what I need to do. Do I need to ring there insurers, do I ring mine and do they sort it all out? I've no idea. The damage doesn't look that bad to my car (from the sound of the crash I though I had lost the back end of my car) but who knows what it's going to come to when it gets checked over. So basically whats my next move?

Oh, and I never did get any dinner, just waiting for a takeaway to come now!

[beccam]

Ring your insurers asap, give them all the details you have, if you have a number for her ring and get her insurers name, your insurance company will then do the rest, they usually give you a certain garage to take your car to for checks and to get work done. You may have to pay your initial excess but can then get it back when her insurers pay up.
If you have injury and want to pursue a personal injury claim you will most likely have to consult a private solicitor.

[Conor]

Nothing else to add other than write everything down you can remember, draw diagrams as well and keep a record of the PCSO's details.

[lexilex]

Thanks!

I don't know what to do about my neck and shoulders. Do I just inform the insurance that I've got pain there? If it's still hurting going to go to my gp on tuesday if I can get an appointment. Don't know if it's worth claiming for? At the moment I can't even dress myself, but hopefully it's gonna go down.

[DirectDebacle]

Thanks!

I don't know what to do about my neck and shoulders. Do I just inform the insurance that I've got pain there? If it's still hurting going to go to my gp on tuesday if I can get an appointment. Don't know if it's worth claiming for? At the moment I can't even dress myself, but hopefully it's gonna go down.

You probably have a 'whiplash' injury which is soft tissue damage. This happened to me in 1984. I am still suffering with it now. It was severe and will probably never heal. Chances are after a nights sleep you will feel bruising that is not evident now down your spine and back. I would suggest seeing your GP immediately. I know it is Saturday now and surgery may not be open. Alternatively if you feel bad go back to A&E they may well be able to supply a neckbrace (collar). Uncomfortable and not flattering to wear but your neck may need support to prevent further damage. Not trying to scare you but these injuries are often mis-diagnosed in terms of severity. As other posters have said get the other drivers insurance details and contact your own insurers asap after getting your neck seen to. Keep records of all medical consultations/hospital visits. The car is only a lump of metal which can be thrown away or repaired. Necks are not so easily dealt with. Good luck.

[lexilex]

This is exactly the sort of thing I'm worried about happening!

The doctor who looked at me the second time said it was just bruising to the muscle, and that it will feel worse tomorrow, so I said to him 'is it like whiplash then' and he said no, just bruising?

I don't want to go back to a&e tomorrow because he's warned me it's going to feel worse then anyway, but obviously I need to get intouch with the insurance company tomorrow so what do I tell them? Do I just say I've got severe pain in my neck and shoulders but am waiting for an appointment with my gp?

I'm so tired but can't get to sleep, still can't believe what happened.

[jimmo]

Sorry to hear that you have had your first accident. That really is a very traumatic experience. Unfortunately it is probably something you will have to get used to. I had my first accident a fortnight after I passed my test in 1965 and, yes, it was my fault. Over the years since then I have had about 10 or 12 accidents which were not my fault and 1 last year which was definitely my fault.
Unfortunately, a fairly common thing that has cropped up for me is that in the immediate aftermath of accidents the other driver has profusely apologised and openly admitted that it was all their fault but once the insurance procedures got under way the other driver’s story changed dramatically and suddenly I was being accused of doing all sorts of stupid and dangerous things.
On a couple of occasions the other driver has, mysteriously to me, produced independent witnesses who saw the whole thing and stated that the accident was definitely my fault.
I like to think that because I have always used quality insurers none of this has hit my pocket and despite last year’s accident which was definitely my fault I still have a full no claims discount.
If you can take a bit of advice from an old codger you really have to look at this as a bit of a game so far as you are concerned about the damage to your car.
It will get fixed.
However your personal health is far more important. In my early days of driving whiplash was unheard of and any aches and pains I suffered from accidents were easily cured by a few pints at my local and a good sleep.
If you have whiplash that can be a serious thing but if you fear that you have whiplash when you haven’t that can be even more damaging to your mind.
It‘s not easy but try to relax. It will all get sorted. That’s what insurance companies are there for.

[snowbrow]

I was in the same situation 18 months ago, someone went into the back of me, admitted it was their fault straight away, an ambulance was called- I was told nothing was broken but to see my gp by the medics on scene!
Thankfully my insurance company was fab sorted everything out for me, courtesy car, someone to pick my car up to take to garage, as I was in so much neck & back pain I coudn't move (and this all happened in my final year at uni good timing ehh)

Make sure you speak to you insurance company tell them all the details you have & they should take it from their!

With regards you your back/ neck pain!

I would say go to your local GP asap, if the receptionists try to fob you off explaing how much pain your in and that you cant move get dressed etc...
One you get to see GP I would ask for pain medication & ask them about excercises to help with the pain, or being referred to a Chiropractor!

Also if you dont have one already get someone to buy you a wheat bag (sold in checmists) which you warm in the microwave and place around your neck/ back I found this very soothing!

Wishing you all the best for speedy recovery! And dont worry too much you are insured and your not at fault so try to enjoy the holidays as best you can!!

[lexilex]

Rang the woman who hit me this morning, got her details, they don't really want to go through insurance, their excess is £400.

Rang my insurance, told them what was going on but wasn't sure if I'd be wanting to make a claim.

Rang NHS direct, who told me to go back to a&e. Don't really want to have to spend another day there if I can help it, so rang my drs and was put through to an out of hours gp, explained what had happened and what my injuries were and just waiting for them to get back to me now. Hopefully I'll just be able to go there and they'll be able to tell me whats wrong (god knows how I'm going to get there...) but if they tell me I need to go to a&e (again!) I'll go.

It's still hurting this morning, mostly my shoulder, like a burning sensation, but my necks still too.

[Mojisola]

Rang the woman who hit me this morning, got her details, they don't really want to go through insurance, their excess is £400.


Go through the proper channels. If you have problems with your neck, how are you going to get any compensation from an individual? As your neck is this bad, go through the insurance company.

[Pew Pew Pew Lasers!]

She hit you. Deal with it through your insurance. Frankly, !!!!!!!! to her. She should have been paying attention, perhaps if she was your neck wouldn't hurt.

[lexilex]

Been to an out of hours gp this afternoon who confirmed I had whiplash and has given me some stronger painkillers and recommended physio, but told me I'll need to go see my GP asap so will ring them first thing Monday morning.

If the damage was to my car only I would have been fine with them paying rather than going through insurance, but because of the injury I've told them it's going to have to go through insurance.

I'm very wary though that they're going to start trying to get out of it. My sister was in a similar situation last year, in an accident involving two other cars. One of the car drivers admitted responsibilty, infront of both my sister and the other driver involved, yet he still ended up lying and getting out of it.

I've just rang my insurance back to ask them to pursue the claim. They've said because I'm only third party, fire and theft (I'm 19 high insurance cost) I have to ring the other car drivers insurance company myself, eventhough I've paid for legal cover :confused: but then she also said when their legal team ring me on Monday about the injuries they may be able to give me advice about claiming for the damage, so going to wait until after I've spoken to them before I do anything else now.

I'm not actually sure what I can claim for with the whiplash, I'm a student so it's not like I'm working and can claim for a loss of earnings

[Pew Pew Pew Lasers!]

Its very very difficult to come up with a valid reason for ploughing into the back of someone else's car.

[lexilex]

That's what I'm hoping! Especially since she admitted infront of the PCSO that she saw me slow down as were approaching the traffic lights but just didn't react to it.

I'm worried though that I've got to ring her insurance up about this myself, does this mean I'm going to be fighting it myself?

[geri1965]

Not if you have legal cover - that's what it's for.

[lexilex]

Thanks, I must look so thick, but I've not a clue what I'm doing.

So I basically ring her insurance to inform them of whats happened but then my insurance will fight for me?

[bestpud]

Been to an out of hours gp this afternoon who confirmed I had whiplash and has given me some stronger painkillers and recommended physio, but told me I'll need to go see my GP asap so will ring them first thing Monday morning.

If the damage was to my car only I would have been fine with them paying rather than going through insurance, but because of the injury I've told them it's going to have to go through insurance.

I'm very wary though that they're going to start trying to get out of it. My sister was in a similar situation last year, in an accident involving two other cars. One of the car drivers admitted responsibilty, infront of both my sister and the other driver involved, yet he still ended up lying and getting out of it.

I've just rang my insurance back to ask them to pursue the claim. They've said because I'm only third party, fire and theft (I'm 19 high insurance cost) I have to ring the other car drivers insurance company myself, eventhough I've paid for legal cover :confused: but then she also said when their legal team ring me on Monday about the injuries they may be able to give me advice about claiming for the damage, so going to wait until after I've spoken to them before I do anything else now.

I'm not actually sure what I can claim for with the whiplash, I'm a student so it's not like I'm working and can claim for a loss of earnings

We were hit by another car while we had third party insurance (it was 12-13 years ago though) and they did not expect us to deal with the other insurance company!

It seems to me you are just looking for some cash here?

I know you have whiplash but if it is not going to cost you financially, (as in you won't lose earnings and you won't have to pay for someone to care for you), and it is not going to significantly alter your life, then why are you looking for compensation?

Seems to me you have been hooked by the compensation culture out there! If you needed compensating, it would be obvious to you why - heck, you can't even think of a feasible excuse to grab some cash!

Yes, you may have long term damage but the likelihood is you will be fine within a week so at least give it some time before you claim for a life long disability!!!

But don't worry. If you are hell bent on squeezing money out of them, it won't be long before you have the compensation vultures on the phone - they'll tell you exactly how to behave and what to say! :rolleyes: Just your conscience you need to sort then...

[lexilex]

Well this is what I'm asking, I've been told by my insurance to claim for the injuries, but I don't know what I can claim for. Obviously it's causing pain and discomfort, and I'm not been able to do things I can usually do. I can't drive, I've not been able to go to football as I usually would do. But I aren't losing money from work as I am a student.

I'm not just trying to get money as you put it. I'm just doing as I've been told by others and my insurance. And the reason they have told me to do this is it COULD take months to clear up, as someones already said in this topic, it can go on for years, then it may effect work earnings, but I will have missed my chance then to claim. I'm just doing as I have been advised to do by my insurance.

[anewman]

Well this is what I'm asking, I've been told by my insurance to claim for the injuries, but I don't know what I can claim for. Obviously it's causing pain and discomfort, and I'm not been able to do things I can usually do. I can't drive, I've not been able to go to football as I usually would do. But I aren't losing money from work as I am a student.
At the end of the day the dozy cow should have been watching where she was going, she didn't, she injured you. I would argue you have experienced losses. Albeit not financial, but a loss that could be compensated for by money - I believe the legal term is "damages". How much is for a court to decide and I'd say only a solicitor can advise if it's worth pursuing. Don't feel bad about claiming, it's your right to do so, and it's not like it's coming directly out of her purse.

[bestpud]

No it is coming out of the insurance we all pay!

[lexilex]

I do feel bad about claiming, infact I feel bad about the whole thing. I feel sorry for them having to find the 400 excess 5 days before christmas. I know I shouldn't, it was her fault, but I know if it was the other way round I'd be so worried. Then I think, well it was there choice to have such a high excess, I made sure mine was low when I was shopping round.

I so aren't part of the compensation culture. I don't agree with people claiming unneccessarily at all. I never intended last night when this happened to claim, I just wanted to be diagnosed so I could get some stronger painkillers which aren't available over the counter, which the dr last night didn't give me. It's only after different people have been saying how bad whiplash can be that I thought I better tell my insurers and they've told me to claim.

[anewman]

No it is coming out of the insurance we all pay!

It will no doubt increase the cost of the insurance of the woman who did the rear ending. It's not like the poster hasn't been injured. There are loads of to$$ers who go around disconnecting their brake lights to get people to rear end them, and surprise surprise all 5 people in the car are claiming for whiplash they don't even have. If you want to have something against people making insurance claims I suggest you direct your energies towards those, and not people who have suffered genuine injuries they otherwise wouldn't have :beer:

[lexilex]

Anewman, thanks, I feel guilty enough without people telling me I shouldn't be claiming.

People actually disconnect their brake lights? How desperate can somebody be. I hope they really do end up with whiplash!

What a time for it to happen, hope it's eased off a bit by xmas, and then I go on holiday in three weeks time, the thought of four hours stuck in one position on a plane in pain really makes me not want to go at the moment.

[anewman]

People actually disconnect their brake lights? How desperate can somebody be. I hope they really do end up with whiplash!
http://www.safefromscams.co.uk/StagedAccidentScam.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6248515.stm

[bestpud]

It will no doubt increase the cost of the insurance of the woman who did the rear ending. It's not like the poster hasn't been injured. There are loads of to$$ers who go around disconnecting their brake lights to get people to rear end them, and surprise surprise all 5 people in the car are claiming for whiplash they don't even have. If you want to have something against people making insurance claims I suggest you direct your energies towards those, and not people who have suffered genuine injuries they otherwise wouldn't have :beer:

A genuine injury that will, in all likelihood be better very quickly!

Anyone who claims for something they don't really need is equally as bad imo. What difference does it make whether it is large or small scale - it is still fraud if it is not necessary?

If the OP does turn yout to have longer lasting damage the yes, of course they should claim, but it is a bit early to be speculating about that, don't you think?

Insurance claims bump up the cost for all of us. Compensation claims more so as they can be very expensive.

[bestpud]

I do feel bad about claiming, infact I feel bad about the whole thing. I feel sorry for them having to find the 400 excess 5 days before christmas. I know I shouldn't, it was her fault, but I know if it was the other way round I'd be so worried. Then I think, well it was there choice to have such a high excess, I made sure mine was low when I was shopping round.

I so aren't part of the compensation culture. I don't agree with people claiming unneccessarily at all. I never intended last night when this happened to claim, I just wanted to be diagnosed so I could get some stronger painkillers which aren't available over the counter, which the dr last night didn't give me. It's only after different people have been saying how bad whiplash can be that I thought I better tell my insurers and they've told me to claim.

You don't need to claim at this stage; you only need to inform them you have the injury. You can wait a few days and see if you recover, which you very likely will.

I know someone who had whiplash and she could barely sit up for several days but it did go and she is now fine. Going on what she said afterwards, I'm amazed you are able to use a computer. She was literally immobilised for about three days!

She was asked by several ambulance chasers if she wanted to make a claim but refused... She actually became very upset with the vultures ringing her as she found it so painful to get up and answer the telephone and in the end her OH disconnected the phone while he was at work so she could rest properly.

But like I said, if you want to claim, wait until they ring you as they will tell you exactly how to act and what to say, and what various things you can claim for. They did with her and she was disgusted by it.

Oh and they will tell you you are disabled for life too - be warned!

[Brooker Dave]

Was on my way out tonight with my boyfriend, going for a meal, and someone went into the back of my car.

She's took total responsibility, admitted it was her fault, she saw me slowing down but for some reason it didn't click that she should brake too. We got all her details, not who she's insured with though she couldn't remember. Luckily a Police Community Support Officer was going past at the time and he rang up and checked for us that she was insured. She said she will be able to give us the nameonce we ring her at home and she's had time to get paper work out.

I had neck and back pain so went to a+e, waited 3 hours for an xray, only to be told my the dr I didn't need one, apparently it's bruising and just to go home, so now I'm in agony.

What do I need to do next? I've only been driving literally a year and have no idea what I need to do. Do I need to ring there insurers, do I ring mine and do they sort it all out? I've no idea. The damage doesn't look that bad to my car (from the sound of the crash I though I had lost the back end of my car) but who knows what it's going to come to when it gets checked over. So basically whats my next move?

Oh, and I never did get any dinner, just waiting for a takeaway to come now!

Option 1.

Get some accident management co on the case and try to pretend that you're injured and try get £10k.

Get a "hire" car that costs £300 a day too.

When you notice that insurance has trebbled, link !!!!!!!!!!s trying it on for compo and the increase.

Option 2.

Report accident to your insurance company.

Let them deal with it.

Don't try to screw compo out of everyone.

Be a proper person.

HTH

[Brooker Dave]

Don't feel bad about claiming, it's your right to do so, and it's not like it's coming directly out of her purse.

Indeed it comes out of all our purses, which is why motor insurance for us all has gone up so much.

[sarahg1969]

If you feel bad about it, OP, why don't you wait a few weeks or months to see if you really are badly injured? If not, then you won't need to claim and your conscience is clear. You don't have to start a claim immediately. You have 3 years from the date of injury to issue court proceedings.

[lexilex]

I'm going to see how long the doctors think it's going to take to get back to normal and go on that.

I aren't going to dictate myself to anyone on here. People obviously have strong opinions on the topic and I'm not up for an argument I'm afraid.

Some of the people on here who just assume we're all the same and out to get what we can have upset me, I'm currently laid up in bed, wedged upon a v shaped pillow, unable to do very much at all and been accused of been a fraud.

I came on here, genuine and asking for advice, not to be talked down to by others who think they know best.

[anewman]

Indeed it comes out of all our purses, which is why motor insurance for us all has gone up so much.

The major contributing factors to higher insurance costs are....

Uninsured drivers (aka scum)
Policy fronting (aka mummy and daddy insuring kid's car cause they can't afford the insurance)
Completely bogus insurance claims/staged accident scamsThis individual has a genuine injury. They're not putting it on for a larf and a couple of quid, and it has negatively impacted their daily activities. Just because this does not equal days off work which can be calculated at £x per hour off work does not mean there's no loss. If we take your attitude the max payments for compo should only ever be the equivalent of minimum wage (whatever the person earns/ed) for the amount of hours off work and nothing else.

[adonis]

I have been hit up the back 5 times over the years, and before anyone says it's my driving i have heard all the excuses such as" looking for toll money", " i misjudged it",(a lady driver :rolleyes: ), " i thought you was going to pull away", not with a 40 ton truck rapidly approaching i'm not.
Luckily no injuries, the last one only needed a bumper, as i have full comp they drove it from my home and kept it for over a week, leaving me with a hire car all at the other insurers expense, when i would have been happy to take my car down to have the bumper fitted when it came in stock.
The op should not feel guilty about claiming for pain and suffering as it wasn't their fault the accident happened.

[before hollywood]

this sort of thing happened to me earlier this year
1. they admitted liability and they hit you from behind- their fault, tell your insurers, they need to contact the other lot

2. hire car, not your fault, you shouldnt be inconvenienced, and make sure it is same size as yours, you never caused this remember.

3. if you are hurt, get a proper medical opinion

this is all the advice given to me by the insurers i had at the time, the guy who hit me was pursued by a ''recovery'' company after a few months of refusing to report to his insurers, they politely phoned me a few weeks later to say hello mr **** the matter with mr ****** is all dealt with now and the claim is closed at no cost to yourself.

[lexilex]

I have actually got the option of a hire car on my insurance I think. Not much point in getting one though really, I don't think I could drive even if I wanted to because of the whiplash. Think my car is driveable anyway, there really isn't much damage at all on the outside but want to get that all checked out first. Don't think I'll be driving for a while, this has scared me a lot! And I was only just getting confident with my driving, took a long time after passing my test in Nov 07.

[Brooker Dave]

The major contributing factors to higher insurance costs are....

1 !!!!!!!!!!s trying to get injury claims from trivial accidents.

2 Parasite accident managment companies.

HTH.

[Mojisola]

You don't need to claim at this stage; you only need to inform them you have the injury. You can wait a few days and see if you recover, which you very likely will.

This is the best advice - which is why you must involve the insurance company at this stage. If you settled with the other driver privately it would be very difficult to later say that your neck was still bad.

All you need to do for the moment is to tell the insurance company that you are having problems with your neck and see how things develop. As you are young, you will probably heal quickly and it won't need to go any further.

Try not to leave it too long before you start driving again. Could you get a friend or relative who is a good driver to go out with you for the first few times for reassurance?

[lexilex]

All I've done is inform my insurance I have whiplash and told them I want to claim for the damage on my car.

They know how long I have had the whiplash for, and they will be told when (hopefully very soon!) the pain has gone away. Surely they aren't going to pay out on the presumption that long term damage has been caused?

As far as I'm concerned the pain I'm suffering now was not there before the accident happened so why should I just put up with it? It's not my fault I am at the moment unable to do things, like I had to pay for a taxi to get to the medical centre today because I can't drive, boyfs having to get taxis to work because he can't get a lift from me, stuff like that.

I aren't going to make out that the pain lasts longer than it does, I'm been perfectly honest with my insurance, I will tell them when I feel the pain has gone, it's then upto them then what happens with regards to a claim.

[Pew Pew Pew Lasers!]

If you have whiplash, if you're in pain, if you're experiencing difficulty - feel free to get as much compensation as you feel suitable. It's what I'd do. You've done nothing wrong and now you're in pain, all because of the actions of some dozy idiot who wasn't watching where she was going.

Insurance is there to cover you for things like this. Just because some low-lifes go around claiming compensation where it isn't deserved doesn't mean you should feel bad when you do deserve it.

I wonder how some of the people criticising you for considering a whiplash claim would manage if they found they could no longer do their job as a result of injuries sustained which are similar to your own?

[jimmo]

Ah! You only have 3rd party insurance. It’s easy with hindsight but I consider myself lucky that, even from the age of 17 I have always had fully comprehensive and, so have both my sons. For some mysterious reason it is often cheaper to get fully comprehensive than 3rd party.
However, what you have to deal with is your situation as it stands.
I definitely claim no professional expertise in this, only personal experience.
The basics are that with 3rd party insurance you are covered for any damage you cause to other people or their property. You are not covered for damage to yourself or your car.
If the accident was your fault your insurance will pay out for the damage you have caused to your victims. If the accident was the other driver’s fault then, as far as your insurance company is concerned, it is nothing to do with them. Any advice they give you is no more than friendly advice without any legal repercussions.
At the present time the driver of the other car seems to be accepting liability for the damage to your car and is prepared to pay to have that damage repaired. That, in itself is good.
However, if you have whiplash that is simply not sufficient. You need compensation for that.
I am not trying to belittle your problem but I think it is fairly common ground that people who are involved in accidents generally claim whiplash injuries as a matter of course.
I think that really is your problem.
Do you genuinely have whiplash or are you trying it on?
Either way around your insurance company is not going to be interested. It is not their problem, it is yours.
If you have a genuine case then my guess is that you will have to go to one of those “no win, no fees” companies.
If you have to do that do it now.

[lexilex]

As far as I can make out, I think because I've paid extra for legal cover, they will fight the injury side of the claim, if I hadn't paid for that, I would have been on my own. Have to wait til they ring tomorrow though and see what they say.

[DirectDebacle]

I wish I had a crystal ball. Some posters apparently have.

They know you have whiplash (because you posted the diagnosis) so they now know how severe it is, how much pain you are suffering, what restrictions it has on your life now and in the future and that you will be recovered in a few days. They also know you won't suffer financially.

All bad advice and should be ignored at all costs.

The facts are you have been involved in a personal injury R.T.A. By law this has to be notified to the police. A PCSO was at the scene but a PCSO is not a police officer. Check with your local police station that an accident report has been recorded by the PCSO. If not then attend the police station with your driving documents and report the accident. At some stage your insurance company will require the accident report no. Make sure you have that before you leave the police station.

As in my previous post at the moment you have no idea how long this injury will take to heal. My experience was particularly bad and after almost 25 years has not fully recovered. I certainly hope yours was nowhere near as severe.

Don't let crass remarks such as 'compensation culture' or 'we all pay' deter you from receiving any necessary medical treatment for your injury or any compensation you may be able to legitimately claim.

As a young driver you will have paid a substantial amount for your insurance and legal protection so make sure you obtain the maximum benefit from it. This is a money saving site and it would be bad advice to pay for insurance and not take advantage of the policy when you need to claim.

Good luck and look after the neck. It is the only one you will ever have and I wish you a full and speedy recovery.

[lexilex]

Thanks for that.

The PCSO told us it didn't need reporting and we wouldn't need a crime number :confused: Insurance haven't asked for one either. I'll ask my insurance about that tomorrow when they ring.

I have had to bite my tounge actually when people have been saying about the prices of insurance increasing because of people claiming for insurance. I paid over £550 for my insurance this year, and that is only third party fire and theft. Last year my insurance cost me over £700 for the same level of cover. I know about high insurance costs due to other people. My insurance is high because of other irresponsible bad young drivers. I pay a lot of money for my insurance and I'm going to make sure they do the work now that I'm paying them for.

I think the painkillers are def kicking in now, although the pain is spreading. It was initially in the right side of my neck and shoulder only, I now have pain in the left side too and lower back. Just hoping I'm going to get in to see my gp before xmas.

[DirectDebacle]

Thanks for that.

The PCSO told us it didn't need reporting and we wouldn't need a crime number :confused: Insurance haven't asked for one either. I'll ask my insurance about that tomorrow when they ring.

I have had to bite my tounge actually when people have been saying about the prices of insurance increasing because of people claiming for insurance. I paid over £550 for my insurance this year, and that is only third party fire and theft. Last year my insurance cost me over £700 for the same level of cover. I know about high insurance costs due to other people. My insurance is high because of other irresponsible bad young drivers. I pay a lot of money for my insurance and I'm going to make sure they do the work now that I'm paying them for.

I think the painkillers are def kicking in now, although the pain is spreading. It was initially in the right side of my neck and shoulder only, I now have pain in the left side too and lower back. Just hoping I'm going to get in to see my gp before xmas.

A PCSO is not a police officer and may well not be fully aware of the Road Traffic Act. If owing to the prescence of a motor vehicle on a road an accident occurs whereby any person is injured.... These accidents must be reported to the police as soon as practicable and in any event within 24 hours. You would not need a crime number as you are not reporting a crime. You will need an accident report number as you are reporting an accident.
I suspect the PCSO was insufficiently trained to know how to deal with this situation. Ensure the accident is recorded as such at your police station. I know this is a chore but may be important later on.

This may be useful to you.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/collisionreporting/reporting.asp

As regards a hire car. You say you are unable to drive at the moment and your boyfriend does not have a vehicle. If your boyfriend has a full licence and your insurance covers you for a hire car ask if it would be possible for a hire car to be provided with your boyfriend insured to drive it until such time you are fit to drive.

[lexilex]

Thanks again. I'll have to go tomorrow, can't get anywhere today, my mum and dad are away so will have to wait until they get back so I can get a lift. It's now been almost 48 hours since the incident though?

My boyfriend doesn't have a license, I'm normally his taxi :rolleyes:

[DirectDebacle]

Thanks again. I'll have to go tomorrow, can't get anywhere today, my mum and dad are away so will have to wait until they get back so I can get a lift. It's now been almost 48 hours since the incident though?

My boyfriend doesn't have a license, I'm normally his taxi :rolleyes:

Shame he doesn't have a licence. Don't worry about it being 48hrs. As far as you are concerned a PCSO is a police officer and you fulfilled your legal obligation. If there is no accident report (I doubt there is) then it is the PCSO that is at fault, not you. You can start by phoning the police station and asking for the accident report no. If they have no record of the accident then one will have to be created and if one has been created ask for the no. and the name and no.of the reporting officer. At some point your insurers or the legal people will want it. I know from experience that a police report of the accident is a definite plus for you, apart from the legal requirement to report such accidents.

[lexilex]

I'm not sure if the PCSO sorted it tbh. I was sat in the car (a shaking and crying mess) whilst my boyfriend talked to the PCSO and the woman. I'll have to see exactly what was said later on (boyf is currently cooking sunday dinner :eek: there is a perk to been stuck in bed!). I'll either give them a ring this afternoon or pop in tomorrow (on my way back from the dentist, absess, so you can imagine how much pain i'm in, on top of the whiplash, lovely!) and see what they have to say. If it's going to help then it's worth doing.

I've another question, I don't know if this is a really stupid question to ask. I've not yet got my travel insurance sorted for my holiday in a couple of weeks time, will I need to mention whiplash to them? Maybe might be better asking this on the travel board. I just now how fussy travel insurance companies can be.

[DirectDebacle]

In theory when the PCSO attended the scene of the accident then the accident should have been dealt with correctly. That is the PCSO, or a police officer if the PCSO was not qualified to deal with it, should have done the following.
Taken the details of all parties involved including witnesses and short statements. Established if any persons were injured and if medical attention was required. Requested the driver and vehicle documents to be produced and if not available issued a 'producer'. Considered reporting the other driver for driving without due care and attention.

As you were clearly in a state of shock it may well be that your injuries did not become noticeable until sometime later. The PCSO may well have thought at the time that this was a non injury accident but as the scene was attended some record should have been made.

A record may be helpful to you in a variety of ways. One is that a record would show where the 'fault' lies and may help you preserve your NCD particularly if the other driver denies any culpability. She may claim you reversed into her. Ridiculous as it may sound, I have known this to be claimed by a driver rear ending a stationary vehicle.

As far as travel insurance goes insurers usually ask if there are any existing medical conditions. Where this has not been declared and a claim is subsequently made the insurers can refuse the claim even if the injury claimed for is totally unrelated to the pre-existing one. Be honest when filling out your proposal. If you wish contact insurers before buying the travel insurance and see what the quotes are with and without the 'whiplash' being declared. It probably won't make too much difference to the premium.

I do not advise making false statements.

[lexilex]

I'll let travel insurance know when I sort it then. I had no intentions of lying just wasn't sure if it was something they needed to be made aware of.

I'm having second thoughts about claiming after talking to my mum and dad. They have just said what happens when it comes to looking for insurance next year. They always ask if you have made any claims in the last 3 years. If I say yes over this are my insurance premiums going to go up?

Maybe worth asking this on the insurance board too actually.

[anewman]

You're going to have made a claim anyway for repairs to your car. It may even be written off yet if the chassis has been bent - it might look ok but the damage could be hidden. Injuries would be added to this claim I believe. So it would only be one claim, which will increase premiums - but at least if you've claimed for injuries you have a little bit of cash to cover the increase.

[beccam]

I'll let travel insurance know when I sort it then. I had no intentions of lying just wasn't sure if it was something they needed to be made aware of.

I'm having second thoughts about claiming after talking to my mum and dad. They have just said what happens when it comes to looking for insurance next year. They always ask if you have made any claims in the last 3 years. If I say yes over this are my insurance premiums going to go up?

Maybe worth asking this on the insurance board too actually.


Try not to let it worry you too much about the insurance, if it wasn't you at fault and her insurance pays up it won't neccesarily affect your quote at all. We had a claim when OH was hit by someone and our quote went down the next year. Might not be so lucky next time since I currently have someone claiming against me for rear ending them!!:o
If you are genuinely in pain then I see no reason for you not to claim, not to scare you but OH was in an accident years ago (was quite a bad one) but he was unable to work for weeks and still has problems with his back years later though he was told it was 'only whiplash'.

[Yorkshire Bred]

when I had an accident a few years ago I just drove it to a top of the range Repair Center who had a loss adjuster, he sorted the whole thing out. Within the hour I had a replacement vehicle and the repairs were done in a week, all I had to do was inform my Insurance I had been involved in an accident and that the other person had admitted full liability.

It never affected my NCB or premiums whatsoever.

[lexilex]

I'm hoping to get an appointment with my gp tomorrow to see what he thinks about the whiplash and how serious it is I've nothing to compare it too, so although I'm in pain I can't really say how bad it is IYKWIM

From the little test I did on one of the comparison sites it looks like my premiums will go up a little, which is daft seen as I wasn't at fault

[Quentin]

As you only have tp insurance your own insurers won't help out.

You need to claim everything direct from the third party.

They won't have to pay any excess for your claim.

Consider placing the matter with a claims handler who will sort everything out for you.

[DirectDebacle]

I'll let travel insurance know when I sort it then. I had no intentions of lying just wasn't sure if it was something they needed to be made aware of.

I'm having second thoughts about claiming after talking to my mum and dad. They have just said what happens when it comes to looking for insurance next year. They always ask if you have made any claims in the last 3 years. If I say yes over this are my insurance premiums going to go up?

Maybe worth asking this on the insurance board too actually.

AFAIK TP insurance will work like this. Re the damage to the vehicles. You cannot claim on your insurance for repair of damage to your vehicle. Therefore no claim = no loss of no claim bonus.

The other driver can claim on your insurers for damage you cause to their vehicle. If that claim is met then = loss of some or all of your NCD.

Under the circumstances of the accident you described it seems unlikely the other driver will try to claim on your insurance for repairs to damage to their vehicle which was caused by her.However you never know. This is why I was urging to ensure their is a police report. You said yourself there was a part admission of liability made by the other driver to the PCSO.

As far as the personal injury goes. This is not a claim on your insurance in respect of damage to vehicles. It is you suing the other driver for damages for injuries caused as the result of an RTA for which they were responsible. (You could do the same if you were a pedestrian and had legal protection on your home insurance policy for example.)

In practice this will involve the legal people for which you took extra cover out negotiating with the other drivers insurers over compensation. If a claim is met then the legal team will claim their costs from the other insurers in addition to your compensation.

So do not worry too much about NCD. In the scheme of things it is not that important. Your neck is. Repair or replacement of your vehicle is. Fair compensation for pain/suffering and expenses is. None of this should cost you or your insurers any money.

Do what you have to do with reporting to the police. See your doctor, inform the legal eagles who will act for you. They can then be left to get on with it and you can concentrate on recovering. Go on holiday and enjoy yourself and don't worry about it. You have paid the premiums for others to do that.

[mum2one]

I wish I had a crystal ball. Some posters apparently have.

They know you have whiplash (because you posted the diagnosis) so they now know how severe it is, how much pain you are suffering, what restrictions it has on your life now and in the future and that you will be recovered in a few days. They also know you won't suffer financially.

All bad advice and should be ignored at all costs.

The facts are you have been involved in a personal injury R.T.A. By law this has to be notified to the police. A PCSO was at the scene but a PCSO is not a police officer. Check with your local police station that an accident report has been recorded by the PCSO. If not then attend the police station with your driving documents and report the accident. At some stage your insurance company will require the accident report no. Make sure you have that before you leave the police station.

As in my previous post at the moment you have no idea how long this injury will take to heal. My experience was particularly bad and after almost 25 years has not fully recovered. I certainly hope yours was nowhere near as severe.

Don't let crass remarks such as 'compensation culture' or 'we all pay' deter you from receiving any necessary medical treatment for your injury or any compensation you may be able to legitimately claim.

As a young driver you will have paid a substantial amount for your insurance and legal protection so make sure you obtain the maximum benefit from it. This is a money saving site and it would be bad advice to pay for insurance and not take advantage of the policy when you need to claim.

Good luck and look after the neck. It is the only one you will ever have and I wish you a full and speedy recovery.

A big thank you, in the nicest of ways, for someone being honest and helpful. I have been involved in 3 car accidents, the 2nd one was a rear end smash, and I was injured. Unfortunatley as a result of the 1st 2 car accidents when I had my dd, I ended up permantely disabled as my back could not cope with a pregnancy.

[mum2one]

OP - Ignore the negative comments, for every thread there is always going to be some form of disagreement with whats been posted, whether that be by the opening post of a reply.

Your Ins - as previously commented on 3rd party, means any accident to your car you have to sort urself, if u were at fault the other party or parties car would be covered.

First thing monday check your legal cover, its usually in addition to ur insurance policy, if you have legal cover let the insurance company deal with it, there a lot better than the "no win - no fee companies"

Earnings - Expenses are more than just lose of earnings, its not endless but can include, telephone calls, postage, presrription charges, basically things that you would not of incurred had u not been in an accident.

You need to keep a diary of how your feeling, in relation to restricted movement, did anyone have to do anything for you, eg, in my case I couldnt lift my dd out of the bath, I had to have someone to do that for me.

Keep a record of who you see, dates, times, etc,

Hopefully with this legal cover they can assist you in dealing with the other party, as their insurers will want to minise any costs, I dont mean hire a £300 a day car, but if you have to get a bus, a taxi, a lift, but pratically is always use the cheapest and best option.

You only get one body, look after it, you know what feels right, and what doesnt, you could have 10 people have the same incident as you, and they would all be displaying different symptons.

I know its hard, but u will need to get behind a wheel again, I knwo your confidence may be knocked, but remember it wasnt your fault, accidents do happen and unfortunatley it happened to you.
x

[pandora205]

I had a similar accident about 3 years ago when I was hit by a police van! I was sent to hospital and told I had whiplash, offered a collar which I declined. The police (who had to be called to check procedures as it was one of their vans) told me I would need a hospital number in the event of a claim. (There were 3 police vehicles called to the scene and everything was done in great detail. Apparently the unmarked van was on an undercover operation when it hit me!)

As it happens my injuries weren't serious, though I couldn't work for a couple of days nor take the kids to swimming, go to the gym etc for about a week. My insurers handled everything. I was given a hire car - not least as my car was declared a write off and it took some time to get the money through. The hire car was minute though - a micra - which was smaller than mine and a bit of a problem going on holiday for a week with 3 kids.

With regard to the injury, I was asked to go for a medical about 3 months after the accident! By then it was a rather hazy memory apart from the facts. I was asked lots of questions, some of which appeared to be quite leading (Do you ever have flash backs when driving along this route, etc.) My insurers legal department handled everything, declined the first offer of compensation (which apparently is usual) and I was awarded £1100, which seemed huge to me for a week or two's injury.

My advice to you would be keep detailed records and ask the hospital for a number to use with your claim. Keep any receipts such as taxis if you need them while car hire is being sorted. Let your insurers do the rest.

[lexilex]

Well, not really got much further today with everything.

I went to doctors this morning who said the whiplash is quite bad. He said it was restricting all movements and has recommended physio, sent the letter off to them today. Also been given some more tablets and some cream.

Got in touch with legal team who told me they would sort out both repairs and the injuries because I paid for the legal advice in with my insurance. Told me the solicitors should have been in touch this afternoon, they haven't so will give them a ring tomorrow.

The other ladies insurance rang me this morning whilst I was on the way. I asked them to call back later as I was just going in to doctors. Dad said he wasn't sure whether I should be talking to them with it going through my insurance. Anyway, they rang back later and just wanted to know if I had a solictor and when I told them yes said they would deal with it all.

Oh, rang the police, they took the details but I never got an accident number, said somebody would be in touch for more details. PCSO just been round to ask what the injuries are and said someone else will be in touch.

[DirectDebacle]

Good news. Just about all the things you needed to do are now done. As long as you know the name/no of someone from your police station you can give that to your solicitor if you don't have an accident ref. no. You can get on with other things now and don't forget what others said about keeping receipts/records of costs incurred because of the accident. Travel to physio/doctors etc. As soon as you can try driving your dads car around the block just to try to get yourself back in the saddle so to speak.

[lexilex]

I've got a log book number that I was given when I rang this morning.

I just want to get my car into a garage to see what the damage on that is now, hopefully that will be sorted tomorrow.

[Rikki]

All I've done is inform my insurance I have whiplash and told them I want to claim for the damage on my car.

They know how long I have had the whiplash for, and they will be told when (hopefully very soon!) the pain has gone away. Surely they aren't going to pay out on the presumption that long term damage has been caused?

As far as I'm concerned the pain I'm suffering now was not there before the accident happened so why should I just put up with it? It's not my fault I am at the moment unable to do things, like I had to pay for a taxi to get to the medical centre today because I can't drive, boyfs having to get taxis to work because he can't get a lift from me, stuff like that.

I aren't going to make out that the pain lasts longer than it does, I'm been perfectly honest with my insurance, I will tell them when I feel the pain has gone, it's then upto them then what happens with regards to a claim.

This is why you have the hire car option so you don't get this added expense.

Whiplash is not the same as bruising you were diagnosed with at A&E after the accident.

[lexilex]

I know they are different, I have been diagnosed by two different doctors now though as having whiplash so looks like the dr at a&e was wrong.

I've already mentioned that I wouldn't be able to use a hire car anyway (not that I think the damage to my car is bad) because of the whiplash, I wouldn't be able to drive.

[Hermann]

Its very very difficult to come up with a valid reason for ploughing into the back of someone else's car.
"There I was stationary in a line of traffic when the idiot in front of me stuck her car in reverse gear and reversed into the front of my car. Twenty of my friends who happened to be walking past on their way to a hen night saw all this and can vouch for me."

[lexilex]

"There I was stationary in a line of traffic when the idiot in front of me stuck her car in reverse gear and reversed into the front of my car. Twenty of my friends who happened to be walking past on their way to a hen night saw all this and can vouch for me."

Honestly, I am totally expecting to hear something along these lines! I'm just hoping the fact she admitted responsibility infront of a PCSO will be enough.

[jimmo]

First things first, how are you? If you are recovering maybe your worries about whiplash are going away. If not then I think the last thing you will want to do is compromise your claim for injuries. If you allow the other driver to pay for the repairs to your car privately you might do that and, quite frankly, that is not sensible.
One thought that has occurred to me is that last year I had an accident that was definitely my fault where I reversed into the side of my neighbour’s car and caused quite a lot of damage to her car. However the damage to my car was virtually nothing.
After confessing to my neighbour I rang my insurance company, told the accident was entirely my fault and they did the rest. Within half an hour my insurance company arranged for my neighbour to take her car to one of their approved repair centres and have a courtesy car whilst hers was repaired.
As regards my car the damage was really very minor and my insurance company told me that if I wanted it repaired I would have to pay my insurance excess. However if I decided not to have it repaired I would have to pay nothing. The damage to my victim’s car was fully covered and the insurance excess only applied to my car.

[Quentin]

If you allow the other driver to pay for the repairs to your car privately you might do that and, quite frankly, that is not sensible.

No.

It makes no difference to your position whoever pays for the damages. (In fact you may not know who actually pays, but it is irrelevant whether the costs are paid by the third party themselves or their insurers).

[lexilex]

Sorry, I missed the most recent posts on here, must of been too busy tracking santa :D

This whiplash has gone down a little, it's not really painful constantly like it was at the start. When I sit in the same position for more than say 5 mins it stiffens up really quickly and starts to hurt. Is this normal? Even been a passenger in my parents car the other day, the pain in the bottom of my back was unbearable.

As for my car, taken it into two garages, looks like the damage is pretty bad. I'm a total girl when it comes to car but apparently I'll need a new panel :confused: because it's bent, as is my exhaust. Both garages thought insurance would want to write off my car because it won't be worth much. One of them said it was unroadworthy, but we think he was trying to make a bit of money out of us. It hasn't been driven since anyway. Thing is, my car is in really good condition. It's an R reg corsa which has done about 26,000 miles! Every mechanic that has looked at it since I got it has said how mint the engine is and that I will be lucky to get a car like it again.

Insurance have closed the claim and it's in the hands of their solicitors who I haven't heard from except when they rang for a description of the accident a week ago. Asked them about my car, they said that I would have to pay for the damage and get it back when the other womans insurance accepted responsibilty, or leave it til it's all sorted, which is taken much longer than I thought, I know it's Xmas and stuff but it's getting a bit stupid.

Asked about the cortesy car, I have got it on my policy but only if it's set on fire or stolen. Have to go through her insurance to get one otherwise.

Have to say I've found my insurance totally useless. There were many others cheaper when I was looking for quotes but I went with them, Prudentual, 'cos they're a well known name. They couldn't care less now they've got there money, even the attitude of the customer service people has been crap!

[lexilex]

Just got a quote through from one of the garages, nearly 900 quid:eek: Only paid 1100 for my car. It's not looking good!

[mum2one]

Basically as your only insured 3rd party, fire + theft that is the only time the courtesy car would come into place, and then for only 5 days. It would be the same whether or who u were insured with.

Fromexperience, this is what I would suggest, ring the solicitors and explain about the car, obviously they will need to work with the other parties insurers, and none move to quickly, as although u have got 2 quotes, the other insurers may want to get the car checked independantly.

Re going through her insurance, dont contact the insurers direct, you need the solicitor to do that, - when I had my write off, (appriciate that was back in 2000), but when solicitors are involved thats who they deal with,

Ask your solicitor to see if her insurers will authorise a hire car until the matter is settled, either via repair to ur car or an insurance write off. If u hire privately the costs can escalate, where as the ins compnay will be paying trade rates. I ended up with a hire car for 8 weeks, even though liability had been admitted, whilst the claim process was going through.

May be worth going back to the gp and asking for a referral to physico.

x

[lexilex]

My GP and also the nurse who rang up to assess me are both supposed to be referring me to physio.

I've heard nothing from anyone since 22nd. Granted it's been xmas, but there has still been days when they have been open. I'm getting pretty fed up now. No one seems interested in fixing my car. I'm stuck in, been told it's my responsbility to keep travel costs down. There are places I need to go that aren't on a bus route but I daren't get a taxi because I don't know if insurance will pay up.

I'm not sure if I want a hire car, from what I've heard it could be more trouble than it's worth with them inspecting it etc. I go on holiday this week anyway. If I haven't heard anything from solicitors before then I'm going to ring them myself, ask whats going on, and tell them I want them to speak to my parents when I'm away so my holiday doesn't slow anything down.

[hellokitty08]

I cant really offer you any advice, just wanted to offer some sympathy. I know what its like sometimes to feel like a helpless woman, and think that in circumstanaces like this that everyone seems to be against you. I would suggsest however chasing up the Doctors if nothing else, at least that should be fairly easy, with the insurance, its a pain, but you might just have to wait and see. Hope everything works out ok for you and that you manage to enjoy your holiday.

[lexilex]

I think I might hear something from doctors this week. Everything is back to normal now, no more bank holidays, so hopefully things should speed up a bit. It's just such a pain in the backside not having a car. I didn't realise until now how much I rely on it!

[caulfield]

i was in same situation, i had to drive accident damaged car for best part of a week (it was mainly cosmetic but they didnt know if worse or not) and then i got the courtesy car, the repair was delayed cos of bank holidays

[Faz]

lexilex
I've not read all the posts in this topic, however I've quite experienced when it comes to insurance and car accidents and will tell you this:

- You should be able to get a hire car to cover you whilst you're off the road. As the third party has accepted liability, they should foot the bill for this.

- You should make a personal injury claim, you were genuinely injured in the accident.

It can all be confusing and daunting, but there are specialist companies who take care of all the legal and paper-work for you such as http://www.accidentexchange.com/ Alternatively your insurance company should take care of it.

If your car will be written off then you'll receive a cheque for the amount it is worth now.

[lexilex]

I have a question about writing a car off.

Can I say no? This is presuming they are going to say they want to write me car off, I've still heard nothing from them about it.

I spent a lot of money on getting it through it's MOT less than a month before the accident. I bought a new battery for it about a week after it's MOT. Also been told my mechanics how good a car it is, engine in mint condition etc. It's done less than 30,000 miles.

It's an R reg corsa so I'll be lucky to get a few hundred for it. There is zero chance of me getting a car as good as mine for that!

[s4mmy]

Hi
I have read through this thread as today someone ran into the back of my R reg corsa whilst dd was driving it.Poor thing, she only passed her test two months ago and in the first month someone reversed into her when she was in a car park and now someone else has driven into the back of the car. She said that she doesn't want to drive again!

[lexilex]

Hi
I have read through this thread as today someone ran into the back of my R reg corsa whilst dd was driving it.Poor thing, she only passed her test two months ago and in the first month someone reversed into her when she was in a car park and now someone else has driven into the back of the car. She said that she doesn't want to drive again!

How unlucky! I know exactly how she feels about not wanting to drive again though! Is she okay other than shock?

How's the car?

[s4mmy]

The poor thing took a really nasty thump to the back of the head but refused to go to A&E. She says that every time she closes her eyes she can see the car getting closer to her, knowing that it's not going to stop in time. [she had braked slowly to reduce speed for the 30mph limit due to roadworks]
The car doesn't look too bad but dh thinks that they will write it off and I know that you will understand when I say that's the last thing we need!!!

[lexilex]

Bless her, hope she's feeling better soon.

It does sound very similar to what happened with me. My car looks fine, but apparently (not looked myself, my Dad's been dealing with it for me) when you open the boot and look down you can see it's all bent.

Is she fully comp? Hope you have more luck with the insurance than I have.

[Stephb1986]

You have the choice of either keeping the car and them giving you money to fix it or you have the choice of them buying the car off you and then it will be sold to someone else.

I think thats how it went when i had a crash 4 years ago.

HTH

Steph xx

[mum2one]

it sounds like if the underneath is bent the ins company will class it as a right off, as it could be the subframe gone, and if u had it repaired could be very expensive.

I fully sympthiase (excuse spelling), when I had my right off Id paid 3k, 3 years later it was worth £400...its such a pain, but its such an unfortunate thing.

[lexilex]

thanks.

I've received a letter this morning from a medical place saying they've been instructed by my solictors to prepare a medical report and have made an appointment. The place I have to go to is an hour away from my home! How the hell do they expect me to get there without a car? :mad:

[mum2one]

Its a pain, is there anyone who can take you there ? I know you can put in a claim for mileage, but thats no help at the moment.

Ifs theres no one to take you, could you ring up the medico-legal (they arrange theappointment) and ask if there is adoctor nearer that u can see.

When I had my accidents the nearest was in home town at a Nutfield hosp, the furtherest 50 mile each way x