vitamins

[poohwinnie5]

Where is the best value and quality for vitamins?

[Ted_Hutchinson]

Depends what you are buying and in what quantity.

The first major problem with buying Vitamins/minerals/supplements is first to check the scientific evidence that the ones you are thinking about buying does actually do what you expect.

I use Pubmed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/) and only ever buy stuff that is known to produce scientifically proven results.

You then have to work out if the form of that vitamin/mineral/supplement is absorbed and used effectively by the body. It is generally the case that synthetic forms are less well used that forms that are biologically identical to the substances the body makes itself or acquires naturally from food sources.

Food sources are generally the best source of most vitamin/minerals. (http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=faq&dbid=33#disctopics)

I then check with Consumerlab (http://www.consumerlab.com/) that what I am buying is likely to be available in the form I'm thinking of buying.

I then generally buy from Iherb (http://www.iherb.com/) because they use the postal service and this works out cheaper than other USA providers who use carriers to the UK. Either way if you are buying from the USA you need to understand that VAT is charged on orders over £18 so check the conversion rate. I've been caught recently as the $ <> £ has changed and is much lower than I thought. What is really bad about this is the £8 standard charge the PO add to collect the £3.60 or so VAT talk about extortion. There are $5 introductory discount codes available from new IHERB customers in the Referrals board.

However I find it's generally cheaper and as quick to get stuff from IHERB. but there are lots of USA discount vitamin providers online. Vitacost, vitamin shoppe, vitaminlife but do check the total price so you are comparing like with like.

For those who don't want to import from the USA
The vitamin Service (http://www.thevitaminservice.com/product_detail.asp?id=1009173) are the best UK providers of Effective strength Vitamin d at the moment. But there are much cheaper providers in the USA. (https://secure.bio-tech-pharm.com/detail.aspx?product_id=18&cat_id=2&subcat_id=0)

I've been happy with the service/price/quality from Zipvit, SimplySupplements for the basics.
If you can't stand the flavour of Zipvits Omega Juice I gather Healthspan do a liquid high strength omega 3 that may be worth a try.

If you want to ask the cheapest source, most effective form of a particular vitamin/supplement then do ask. Although this forum can NOT provide medical advice it clearly isn't money saving to be spending money on ineffective forms of vitamins/minerals or those that have no scientific validation for their use.

So although we cannot provide medical advice we can supply links to sources of information that enable you to understand which form of a vitamin/mineral is most likely to be used by your body and explain the evidence supporting the use of particular supplements.

[poohwinnie5]

I would like vitamins to help me with my present cold and sore throat e.g. Echinacea and Manuka honey.

[Ted_Hutchinson]

I would like vitamins to help me with my present cold and sore throat e.g. Echinacea and Manuka honey.
If you go to Pubmed and enter the words echinacea cold you find about 45 papers this recent example says " This meta-analysis suggests that standardized extracts of Echinacea were effective in the prevention of symptoms of the common cold after clinical inoculation, compared with placebo. Further prospective, appropriately powered clinical studies are required to confirm this finding."

So it's likely you won't be wasting your money but there is a past history of research on Echinacea that is not so promising. (http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band109/b109-7.html)
#
The Consumerlab report on Echinacea makes the point that Echinacea is usually taken at the first sign of a cold and continued for 7 to 14 days. They don't recommend longer-term use of echinacea.

The best evidence supports the use of products made from the above-ground portions of E. purpurea (specifically, flowers, leaves and stems); E. pallida root has also shown promise, but E. purpurea root appears to be ineffective

They suggest 300 mg 3 times a day is the usual dose.
This would be the kind of product that more or less fits their specifications (http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=1974&at=0)

I'll have a look at Manuka when I get back later tonight.

But I don't get colds see page 7 (http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/13/1/6.pdf) as I believe prevention is better than cure.

[poohwinnie5]

How do you prevent yourself catching a cold?

[poohwinnie5]

Thanks for all your help. Is the 'page 7' link working properly. (It just sends me to the iHerb website)

[Ted_Hutchinson]

Thanks for all your help. Is the 'page 7' link working properly. (It just sends me to the iHerb website)Have corrected the link sorry my mistake.
here is a Google Scholar search for Manuka Honey (http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=manuka+honey&hl=en&lr=&start=0&sa=N) and just reading the headings gives you an idea of what research has been done and this is mainly in the area of wound healing and not colds.

Similarly Consumerlab has nothing on using manuka honey for the treatment of colds.

Bandolier also summarises the evidence for honey/wound healing but nothing else.

Dr Cannell has some interesting comments to make on what you should do if you are getting a cold or the flu. (http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/2006-nov.shtml) I keep some of these in store just in case. (https://secure.bio-tech-pharm.com/detail.aspx?product_id=20&cat_id=2&subcat_id=0) I've only once thought maybe I may be getting a cold so I put his plan into action and within hours what I thought may be developing into a cold had vanished, so either it works brilliantly or I didn't have a cold starting.

[poohwinnie5]

The journal paper concerning vitamin D was fascinating. However, the product that you linked is $30 which presently equates to over £19. Thus, I would have to pay VAT and handling fees as with the p&p the final cost would be closer to $35. There is a 5000IU vitamin D product and I will buy this. Thank you for your comprehensive help, I think I will save my money and not buy 'Manuka Honey'.

[poohwinnie5]

I would also like to ask you

do you take any vitamin supplements, and what are they?

[Ted_Hutchinson]

I would also like to ask you

do you take any vitamin supplements, and what are they?For information purposes only and not as medical advice I'm happy to answer your question.

I supplements I take daily are
7000iu/daily of Vitamin D3. (I used to take 5000iu but my latest 25(OH)D test showed my status was only 120nmol/l and I would prefer it to be around 150nmol/l or 60ng (http://www.grassrootshealth.org/_download/disease_incidence_prev_chart_101608.pdf))

1.8g of omega 3 daily. (that's six normal fish oil capsules, 3 super strength capsules or one teaspoon of liquid omega 3 fish oil) I've been using omega 3 now for many years the latest research confirms it is extremely important for brain/heart health (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/87/6/1997S) but I do this in the context of a lower omega 6 intake than is generally the case. (http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/09/pracical-approach-to-omega-fats.html) I also use coconut oil/ olive oil and our hens have a diet supplemented with flax so all our eggs are higher omega 3.

Magnesium 600mg/daily. Krispin's magnesium page (http://www.krispin.com/magnes.html)

Vitamin K2mk4, (http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/11/cardiovascular-disease-and-vitamin-k2.html)

There is also evidence based support for the use, in certain circumstances, of Melatonin, Co-Enzyme Q10, DHEA, L-Arginine, B-Complex Vitamins, vitamin C, Alpha lipoic acid, acetyl-L-carntine (http://mcb.berkeley.edu/index.php?option=com_mcbfaculty&name=amesb) for those with specific problems or insufficiency states. (this isn't an exclusive list, it's just an off the top of my head those supplements I've researched/considered there may be others) You may note I do not take a multivitamin/mineral, too much reliance on synthetic vits for my liking.

Bear in mind also that I am now eating a low carbohydrate diet (http://blogg.passagen.se/dahlqvistannika/?anchor=my_lowcarb_dietary_programe_in) based on the worlds healthiest foods. (http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php) and although this is only anecdotal evidence, the greatest improvements in my health have come not from the use of supplements but from the change from a healthy diet including wholegrain/brown rice, potatoes, wholegrain pasta (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/DmCutVZslTjHejcdS3AUVQ) to a healthier low carbohydrate diet. It was cutting out the carbs that stopped my cravings, reduced my appetite and allowed the fat to burn off. (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/RLO9jpRbF4Gwzmk1HW37Tg)

[poohwinnie5]

I'm presently searching around the stores for vitamin D 7000iu, magnesium and vitamin K2mk4. Did you buy these supplements from iHerb? I'm especially having trouble finding K2mk4 (dosage?)

[Ted_Hutchinson]

I'm presently searching around the stores for vitamin D 7000iu, magnesium and vitamin K2mk4. Did you buy these supplements from iHerb? I'm especially having trouble finding K2mk4 (dosage?)
Vitamin D is fat soluble and has a half life around 3 weeks. It follows (and there is loads of science to support it but I've got to go out now) that you can take a load of vitamin D and that will last you some time so it makes no odds (except if you are currently breast feeding) if you take it daily or weekly. So using 10 x 5000iu capsules once a week or alternately 2 x 5000i even days and 1 x 5000iu odd days of the week average around 7000iu/daily with no loss of effecitiveness.

both Magnesium malate and K2 are available from Iherb. I'll provide links later.
But do read what Stephan here has to say of FREE Vitamin K2 from marrow bones. (http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/11/vitamin-k2-in-marrow.html)

[poohwinnie5]

Thanks, I want to make sure I'm getting the correct variety of K2. Do you buy the omega oil from the US?

[Ted_Hutchinson]

Thanks, I want to make sure I'm getting the correct variety of K2. Do you buy the omega oil from the US? I've used all these except the Healthspan which is a new product.
Simply Supplements (http://www.simplysupplements.net/product/275/omega-3-triple-strength-1000mg/)(EPA) 330mg, Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) 220mg= 550mg omega 3 £12.95

Iherb equivalent (http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=8341)Omega-3 Fatty Acids 750 mg Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA)500 mg Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) 250 mg
Molecularly Distilled-Enteric Coated Iherb price: $22.38 (£14.89) this is a better product than the Simply Supplements version, not only is it molecularly distilled it's also coated so it would be less likely to cause fishy burps.

Zipvit omega Juice (http://www.zipvit.com/cgi-bin/popupprod2a.pl?prodcode=A216j)

Healthspan omega 3 liquid (http://www.healthspan.co.uk/joint-care/omega-3-liquid-super-strength-1-357mg/ProductDetail-p3196675-c124.aspx)It would be helpful if anyone who has tried this reports back on how acceptable the flavour is. There don't seem to be many here who are prepared to consume the Zipvit version regularly because to it's taste.

Although it could be argued that molecularly distilled fish oil eliminates all the possible pollutants and would be worthwhile I'm not sure it's worth the extra. The fish they use for fish oil are the small surface fish not the large fish that live at the bottom of the sea and predate on smaller fish. It's the big fish that live a long time that accumulate pollutants. I haven't seen any good evidence to make me worry about fish oil being contaminated. I also eat oily fish regularly but it's sardines/herring/mackerel.

Life Extension, Super K, with Advanced K2 Complex, 90 Softgels (http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=2383611782503574853&at=0) has got a reasonable amount of Vitamin K2 (as menaquinone-4) but if you ask at the butchers you can get large bones for free and you can pressure cook them easily for stock. or follow Stephan's advice here (http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/11/vitamin-k2-in-marrow.html)

[poohwinnie5]

Thanks for all your comprehensive help. I should be able to find the other recommended vitamins from the iHerb website.

[Killercat]

Thanks for all your comprehensive help. I should be able to find the other recommended vitamins from the iHerb website.

Hey - I'm not sure this will help but I drink Aloe Vera gel every day (for the last 6 months) originally taking it and Bee Propolis tablets to clear up a really bad chest infection, for which I had 2 course of antibiotics to treat and they never helped.
I took the gel and the tablets and the infection cleared up within 3 weeks, I still continue to take the gel drink because it is packed full of vitamins, minerals and amino acids.
If your looking for supplements to improve day to day health then you should consider taking it. I haven't had a cough or cold since starting taking it in early June this year and it also helped clear up some mild eczema that i have on my hands and arms.
You can find more information at these links;
http://www.alternativewellbeing.co.uk/page/aloe-vera

http://www.alternativewellbeing.co.uk/page/bee-pollen

Hope you find this useful.

KC*

[Ted_Hutchinson]

Hey - I'm not sure this will help but I drink Aloe Vera gel every day Effectiveness of aloe vera (http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/alternat/at125.html)

Clinical bottom line: There is some evidence from randomised, double blind trials to show that aloe vera is effective for psoriasis and genital herpes, though the results were based on few patients. There is no high quality evidence of effectiveness of aloe vera for wound healing, radiation-induced skin injury, hyperlipidaemia or diabetes mellitus. Most of the included studies were small.

If anyone wants to understand how to take effective action to improve immune function then there is good evidence and reason detailed here (http://www.virologyj.com/content/5/1/29)

[Mojisola]

There is no high quality evidence of effectiveness of aloe vera for wound healing, radiation-induced skin injury, hyperlipidaemia or diabetes mellitus.

In general I would go along with the idea of seeing what has been tested but I also go by my own experience. I have found aloe vera is very good for wound healing, particularly burns and scalds. I've also used honey for slow healing wounds. I find homeopathy very effective so I use it. I make several herbal ointments which work.

[Killercat]

In general I would go along with the idea of seeing what has been tested but I also go by my own experience. I have found aloe vera is very good for wound healing, particularly burns and scalds. I've also used honey for slow healing wounds. I find homeopathy very effective so I use it. I make several herbal ointments which work.

Take on board Ted H comments but have to agree with the above. For example antibiotics are 'scientifically" proven to be effective and used commonly in modern medicine. However, the 2 courses of strong antibiotics I was prescribed didn't clear up my infection. And I know I'm not alone in this experience, so what does that prove? I think modern medicine is amazing but where possible I would also rather ingest something that worked more in harmony with my body than something that is manufactured in a lab.

What we each decide to consume for additional help to improve our health or immune system is a very individual thing and what works for one (even if placebo in some peoples opinions) won't necessarily work for others.

What we can do is share our experiences and give people the information to help decide what they think might work best for them, or that they believe in. There may not be as many guarantees with alternative medicine than there is with modern medicine, but the later is not full proof either.

KC*