Muppet ploughs into my two parked cars!!ADVICE NEEDED

[jig]

A stupid cannot drive spotty teenager ploughed into my two parked cars in the driveway.

The damage was extensive one in the rear quarter and the other on the rear drivers side door, with his car being written off!

His insurance company(third party) arranged the cars to be taken away and provided replacement vehicles.

They have rang today giving me the following...

1. BMW e39 ('99) - is to be written off as the repair costs are to high. I will be given a good valuation in line with autotrader and can expect £3000.
2. BMW e60 ('04) - repair costs are too high at BMW and insurer is pleading that I get the repairs done at another garage as it will be cheaper. Said that BMW have listed a whole host of things which are not all necessary?. (im not happy doing this).

So I need help and advice on what I should do next...

1. I want as much money as possible and with the option of buying back the salvage in an attempt I could repair?What are my options? Also car has a private plate, I want to keep it what should I do and when?
2. I want the repairs done at BMW can I force this? I want everything thats an issue to be resolved and not just some things, how do I ensure this?

Thanks in advance for the help and advice
Jig

[zappahey]

I'm not sure that someone else's insurance company can write off your car. I'm fairly sure that you can insist that it be repaired and repaired properly.

[anniecave]

1. I would look yourself at getting the car repaired, only you can decide if it's worth doing. Get some quotes etc. If you go down that option they should be willing to deduct the value they would get as scrap and give you what the car is worth and give you the car back. I don't know anything about private plates, sorry.

2. you say on one hand BMW are quoting for things that aren't necessary, but on the other hand you want to go to bmw! I can see the other insurance company's point! Go to at least two other repair centres. They will give you quotes and will list exactly what they intend to repair and how much they intend to charge. Check they are including everything you feel is necessary. If all the quotes are similar, then you can ask for BMW repair. If others are significantly cheaper then you will probably have to go for a non-bmw repairer.

[sarahg1969]

With the private plate,I believe the insurers have to send a form to the DVLA so that the plate can be put on retention. Make sure you insist that the insurers cover any associated fees too.

Buying back the salvage? Tell the insurers you want to retain, and they'll pay you the vehicle's value net of salvage. That should be no problem.

Getting the BMW fixed at a BMW garage? Be persistent about this one. You may need to get your own engineer's report - can your insurers assist with this? Do you have legal expenses insurance?

[DirectDebacle]

I am not an expert but I would consider this.

Contact the DVLA. They will tell you exactly what they require for you to retain your reg. under these circumstances.

In respect of repair or buying the salvage I would contact my insurers. Speak to them and find out if you had the vehicle 'written off', bought the salvage and repaired it would it be categorised as a write off on the HPI. There are different categories and you may find that your existing insurer would not insure a write off of any category. Different insurers have different criteria in this respect. If an HPI check would reveal your repaired vehicle as a write off this may well present difficulties in you selling it if you chose to do that.

I would treat the BMW quote as the 'gold standard'. Undoubtedly you will find cheaper quotes from non- franchised but approved repairers. If they are not quoting for work which BMW engineers deem necessary (a like for like) then that raises a question of engineering competence which the other parties insurers would have to justify. I would weigh up carefully the price they are prepared to pay you out as opposed to the price less salvage. Vehicle prices are depressed at the moment and you could get a very good buy with the cash compared to the hassle of retaining and repairing your damaged vehicle. Ensure before you have repaired it will be insurable at a reasonable premium and the level of cover available. They may only offer you third party.

[WestonDave]

re 2 - tell them they can either get it done at the BMW garage starting now, or they can argue the toss with you while you find other acceptable garages to do the work all the time costing them money due to the replacement hire cars. It won't take long at day hire rate for it to be cheaper for BMW to do the work than to wait for someone else to do it!

[Pew Pew Pew Lasers!]

2. BMW e60 ('04) - repair costs are too high at BMW and insurer is pleading that I get the repairs done at another garage as it will be cheaper. Said that BMW have listed a whole host of things which are not all necessary?. (im not happy doing this).

Diddums. Its your car, you can have it repaired wherever you like. Take it to BMW and ask them to return it as new, and let the insurance company pay for it all. How would they know what is necessary and what isn't?

[hewhoisnotintheknow]

the first one see if you can buy it back and repair it yourself

the second one i would not want fixing at a bmw garage (they probably outsource it anyway)

[sunshine2000]

You have my complete sympathy. The same thing happened to me in early September, a drunk driver ploughed into my car in the middle of the night whilst I was fast asleep at home.

I would have thought it would be your insurers who would tell you if your car is writtern off not the third party? I would def obtain a quote via your insurers

My car had private plates which I have just put on retention. You need to fill in form V778/1 and then send this plus relevant docs (licence/MOT etc) to your nearest DVLA office. If you call DVLA they can tell you your nearest office. It costs £105 in total. Link below. http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/PersonalisedRegAndNumberPlates/DG_4022575
I am now in the process of claiming this back as an un-insured loss via helphire who provided my courtesy car.

I was also offered a price which they said was in line with autotrader- however, the engineers/ garage was open to negotitation and managed to squeeze an extra £200.

Hope this has been of some use, good luck:o

[raskazz]

I'm not sure that someone else's insurance company can write off your car. I'm fairly sure that you can insist that it be repaired and repaired properly.

No you can't. If it is unsafe (category A or B total loss) then clearly a repair is impossible. If it is uneconomical to repair the vehicle (category C or D) then all the third party insurer has to do by law is pay the market value of the car, thereby enabling you to buy a car of equivalent make/model/mileage/condition and thus be in the same position as you were immediately prior to the loss. However, the third party insurer cannot insist on retaining the salvage - it should be possible to return it to you (unless it is unsafe).

[raskazz]

the first one see if you can buy it back and repair it yourself

the second one i would not want fixing at a bmw garage (they probably outsource it anyway)

I tend to agree. The workmanship at the BMW garage will be no better or worse than any other reputable garage but it will be substantially more expensive. In my experience there are many garages that specialise in BMW's but are not franchised which will provide a decent service at a much lower cost, with the same levels of guarantee on the workmanship.

[raskazz]

Diddums. Its your car, you can have it repaired wherever you like. Take it to BMW and ask them to return it as new, and let the insurance company pay for it all. How would they know what is necessary and what isn't?

If the OP does that then the third party insurer will not pay the whole invoice. It will simply pay the pre-accident value of the car as the OP didn't mitigate his loss (I am assuming that the insurer are implying that if the OP chooses BMW their costs would make the car uneconomical to repair). They could also withdraw the replacement car before the vehicle is repaired, for the same reason.

Why not ask the insurer what exactly BMW are including which is not relevant to the repair? Then we can try to determine whether they are correct.

[anewman]

At least the twunt had insurance.

[cyclonebri1]

At least the twunt had insurance.

Just what I was thinking;)

Nice job to get 2 for 1 tho', and in your drive:T


Twunt:mad:

[mcjordi]

the third party insurer can write off the car -its them thats paying out after all,
as for forcing them to get it done at BMW they dont have to at all - it will go to an approved bodyshop on their lists -be it ford, vauxhall, independant bodyshop- it will be returned to as standard before the accident.
depending on the catergory of ABI it is placed in then retention will be an option however they will generally take around 20% of the PAV off the settlement and you keep the car , A + B catergories are disposed of - you wont be allowed to keep them.
i know this as i work in the insurance industry as an asessor/loss adjuster.

as for getting it repaired wherever you want you are right but the insurer will only pay up to 70% of PAV in repairs so bear this in mind

[cyclonebri1]

the third party insurer can write off the car -its them thats paying out after all,
as for forcing them to get it done at BMW they dont have to at all - it will go to an approved bodyshop on their lists -be it ford, vauxhall, independant bodyshop- it will be returned to as standard before the accident.
depending on the catergory of ABI it is placed in then retention will be an option however they will generally take around 20% of the PAV off the settlement and you keep the car , A + B catergories are disposed of - you wont be allowed to keep them.
i know this as i work in the insurance industry as an asessor/loss adjuster.

as for getting it repaired wherever you want you are right but the insurer will only pay up to 70% of PAV in repairs so bear this in mind


But it does not have to go to a repairer on their list, it can go to any authorised repairer of your choice, provided the estimate is competitive.

I would want to find out what BMW want to change that the others don't or are overlooking?;)

[jig]

UPDATE:
Hi everyone,

Thanks for the help and support so far...

Ive just come back from BMW and they have given me the estimates for the damage.....

Car 1 - £6000!! no work has been authorised.
Car 2 - £3000, and the work for this car has been authorised.

I believe they will right-off car 1, which means next steps are I have to secure the private plate and ensure I get the best price possible for the car. Also if the opportunity is there to buy back the car I will take this up.

I also need to provide two estimates for damages to the wall and driveway!!:( this is quite stressfull :(

[jig]

so unfair!!!!

[Ms Chocaholic]

Can you also claim for your time?

[jig]

Can you also claim for your time?

Not sure, can I?
:confused:

[mcjordi]

unless your taking time off work then no unfortunatley

[Quentin]

Not sure, can I?
:confused:

You can claim from the third party for the cost and inconvenience you are put to over the incident (like: taking car(s) to get quotes/delivering and collecting cars from bodyshop etc., phone calls and correspondence etc - keep everything itemised and reasonable) - just as you can claim all other losses whether or not they were insured.

[cyclonebri1]

You can claim from the third party for the cost and inconvenience you are put to over the incident (like: taking car(s) to get quotes/delivering and collecting cars from bodyshop etc., phone calls and correspondence etc - keep everything itemised and reasonable) - just as you can claim all other losses whether or not they were insured.


Agreed. IE, any legitimate expenses;)

[jig]

Update:
I'm fed up with the other guys insurance co...

They have nearly finished with the repairs on the E60 and will be returned soon and I will need to return the hire car.

The other car they are not budging on the valuation (poor) and I have been told that it is 7 days from the day they tell me I need to close. Also the fact that the insurance guy wants all of the hire cars returned (I think it has something to do with his bonus)

As for the other damage (driveway and garden) he now tells me he needs THREE quotes not two originally requested.

I am now losing my patience...

Where do I stand legally with car no.2?

I dont want to return the second hire car and dont have a leg to stand on?

Legally where do I stand with the other repairs - driveway and garden - can I just get the work done and provide them a reciept?

Thanks in adv for all the advice and help
Jig :(

[rwgray]

I am surprised that the third party insurers have been so involved in this process. I guess they do this to minimise their own costs in the longer term. Traditonally, they would only be able to inspect the vehicles for an assessment, and would not get involved in moving them or providing replacements or even repairs - they would simply have to pay for your costs accrued in doing these things yourself.

There is no reason why you should have to settle for a non-BMW repairer, but you might have to settle for a lower negotiated repair figure and then ask BMW to work within that budget (or pay a little extra yourself if you wish). The insurers are not obliged to work with any particular repairer, but then nor is it really their decision!

You're unlikely to get anything for your time, but do make sure you get household repair quotes from larger companies that will factor in all the relevant costs up front.

Best of luck.

Rich.x

(Former insurance company negotiator.)

[jig]

I am surprised that the third party insurers have been so involved in this process. I guess they do this to minimise their own costs in the longer term. Traditonally, they would only be able to inspect the vehicles for an assessment, and would not get involved in moving them or providing replacements or even repairs - they would simply have to pay for your costs accrued in doing these things yourself.

There is no reason why you should have to settle for a non-BMW repairer, but you might have to settle for a lower negotiated repair figure and then ask BMW to work within that budget (or pay a little extra yourself if you wish). The insurers are not obliged to work with any particular repairer, but then nor is it really their decision!

You're unlikely to get anything for your time, but do make sure you get household repair quotes from larger companies that will factor in all the relevant costs up front.

Best of luck.

Rich.x

(Former insurance company negotiator.)

Thanks Rich.

I am suprised they will not re-imburse for my time wasted in meeting tradesman, calls etc.

Rich, can they write off my second vehicle? Also where do I stand with this can I force them for a repair? and while this is being decided how long can I keep the hire car for?

Thanks
Jig

[Brooker Dave]

Not sure, can I?
:confused:

No.

You could always pretend to have whiplash from watching the accident?

[tommie1shunt]

Don't forget that your cars values have dropped because they have been in an accident, come trade in time you will take a hit, you should claim the loss of "value" too your cars

[sarah_elton]

Any amount an insurer offers you for a written off car is negotiable.

Make sure that you negotiate an amount that would replace it with one in the same condition and with the same mileage. If it was in great condition or had low mileage for its age, make sure you emphasise this.

[cyclonebri1]

Any amount an insurer offers you for a written off car is negotiable.

Make sure that you negotiate an amount that would replace it with one in the same condition and with the same mileage. If it was in great condition or had low mileage for its age, make sure you emphasise this.


But you would be wasting your breath. They pay market value only and go by the book, if your car was exceptional it won't be now. This is where agreed value policies come in bad sadly usually only apply to specialist type cars,

[mcjordi]

send the insurers copies of adverts for similar mileage condition etc cars to yours with the asking prices they may not increase the offers massively but any extra you can get is a bonus
you can buy the car back from the insurance and repair it yourself
you can also claim loss of value from the repaired one