Petrol is not just petrol any more

[dawsond410078]

Hi,

Has any one noticed that when the likes of Tesco do a discount offer - the milage you get per gallon really drops off?

In my Honda JAZZ I usually get about 47 mpg - but when I filled up at Tesco on the 5p offer it goes down to 41mpg. I've noticed this several time. (when I filled up at a non supmarket petrol station it goes back up to 47 (plus) mpg.
This is for the same journey to and from work.
:money:

[ispartacus75]

Dont know too much about that but I do know that when I was driving a cab I wouldnt put Sainsburys diesel in my Peugeot 406 because it would disappear like there was no tomorrow.

[lovethymini]

I think there's something in this theory; I always remember my dad did a study on this and said that the worst was Shell and the best was Jet - this was before the days of supermarket petrol, mind!

I would be interested to know if there was a difference in mpg between diesel and biodiesel, I plan to look into this next.

Incidently - Our BMW 5 series only did about 32mpg on a motorway run this weekend, it's usually higher (and we weren't driving into the wind). Funnily enough, I filled up at Tesco's......

[Antispam]

It would be interesting if some motoring organization or even which did article on this to dispel or confirm whether this is the case

[Paul Varjak]

Tere are just too many factors that affect petrol consumption. This 'anecdotal' evidence is simply not enough.

I think scientific tests have been done comparing leaded and super unleaded petrol in normal cars. In the main, there was found to be no difference in output power at least. It was only higher performance cars where any increase in power was noted.

[allydowd]

I have noticed the same anomily with my Smart car and Tesco petrol.

[Crabman]

I've moved this thread to the Motoring Board :)

Hi, Martin’s asked me to post this in these circumstances: I’ve asked Board Guides to move threads if they’ll receive a better response elsewhere (please see this rule (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=1009335#post1009335)) so this post/thread has been moved to another board, where it should get more replies. If you have any questions about this policy please email abuse@moneysavingexpert.com (abuse@moneysavingexpert.com).

[Conor]

Hi,

Has any one noticed that when the likes of Tesco do a discount offer - the milage you get per gallon really drops off?


No. It has to conform to BSI standards so they can't go lowering the calorific value of it out of RON95 or RON99 spec without breaking the law. I reckon it's more to do with you driving differently when you're paying more.

[Limey]

There are different additives to the fuel you buy from different companies, however from what I've heard the base fuel itself comes from the same regional refinery. So the Tesco/ASDA/Shell fuel in Gosport will all come from the same refinery.

[Wig]

You would have to do a series of bench tests, driving your car will not get accurate results.

Feel free to run some measured tests on your lawnmower with blade removed, and come back to show us the results.

[vikingaero]

We've had a relatively mild winter/autumn so far and with the recent cold weather engines take far longer to reach operating temperature and with higher loads on the electrical system which results in more fuel being burnt.

[nomoneytoday]

Absolutely ridiculous - the stuff the supermarkets sell is from the same crude oil, only the additives change by brands...

[brightonman123]

one for watchdog, or top gear, maybe?

[chunkytfg]

It's totally rubbish...All thats happening is you are being less careful sub conciously because you have paid less. Lets face it is the fuel was twice the price you'd get even better than 47mpg i'd garuntee it.

My car lives on supermarket fuel(over 35K a year) and gets as good as the other places simply because i'm careful. 50mpg regardless of where purchased.

[fiscalfreckles]

My OH had no end of problems with his car & the mechanic blamed it all on tesco petrol. Since he's stopped buying it, the car has been fine (not so many clubcard points now though!) Never really noticed a difference in mileage though.

[glowgirl]

I said this a couple of months ago that I wasnt happy with Tesco petrol after noticing a difference when filling up at a Shell, everyone thought I had lost my mind and told me not to be so silly, the prices were the same at the time and I didnt change my driving style at all.

[goldspanners]

everyone thought I had lost my mind



i still do, ive not commented on this thread about this because im fed up seeing it here.
ive used tesco for a while but occasionally use other stations,filling both my car and my van and do not notice any difference other than when my driving or types of journeys change. a small change is driving style/ journey type/ journey length/ outside air temperature/ road surface/ tyre pressure/ etc, etc...can make a big difference in fuel consumption. so to measure 2 tanks of fuel all variants above must be the exact same on each tank of fuel.
impossible unless in a controlled environment.

[northstar23]

I said this a couple of months ago that I wasnt happy with Tesco petrol after noticing a difference when filling up at a Shell, everyone thought I had lost my mind and told me not to be so silly, the prices were the same at the time and I didnt change my driving style at all.

I agree with this. My 1.4l Fiesta seems to get through Tesco petrol really quickly, but filling up at Shell or Esso I seem to get far more mpg, something in the region of another 40 miles to a tank at least.

Now the caveat... I'm a pretty decent mechanic & engineer. Logic tells me this has to be a coincidence and that the same base petrol of RON95 would produce close results under testing. However these additives must have an influence and I'm almost convinced that for whatever chemical reason the Tesco fuel doesn't combust as efficiently.

[Loraine267]

During the last half-term break, I noticed that my Honda Civic was using more fuel than normal but thought it must be my imagination. A friend then told me never to use supermarket petrol stations because they put "more of something in" and doesn't go as far as the likes of Shell or Esso.

I decided to put my car to the test and filed up at Asda, then did the same routine I always do. I then filed up at Shell and that tank went a lot further - two days worth of travelling to and from work. I don't think that's a coincidence and nor do my colleagues who have also noticed that supermarket petrol doesn't last as long.

[ozvaldinho]

I only get 19 mpg when there's a full moon.

[michaels]

The fuel companies themselves only claim an advantage with long term usage due to cleaning additives reducing the build up of carp in the engine. Does no one think that if branded petrol gave better mileage straight off the petrol companies would either be advertising this widely or would be downgrading their petrol to be equivalent to the supermarket stuff? Why on earth would anyone sell a better and presumably more expensive to make product and not market it as such?

[orb]

We've had a couple of Jazzs over the past five years and always kept a mental note of the mpg figures. We've found it varies by a few mpg over the course of a year, we the get lowest mpg figures in the winter when it's colder and darker.

R

[Wig]

During the last half-term break, I noticed that my Honda Civic was using more fuel than normal but thought it must be my imagination. A friend then told me never to use supermarket petrol stations because they put "more of something in" and doesn't go as far as the likes of Shell or Esso.

I decided to put my car to the test and filed up at Asda, then did the same routine I always do. I then filed up at Shell and that tank went a lot further - two days worth of travelling to and from work. I don't think that's a coincidence and nor do my colleagues who have also noticed that supermarket petrol doesn't last as long.

Ignoring all the other variables, of which there are many, how do you know you used the exact same amount of fuel from each source?

As michael said, if they did sell fuel that returned better mpg they would be shouting it from the roof tops.

Do you know many people think ibuprofen under the brandname Nurofen works whilst any other non brand ibuprofen does not work? It is the exact same drug. If they do notice a difference it is a placebo effect. The same applies to petrol. If you really believe its different then putting 100ml of each product into a lawnmower 10 times for each fuel should produce a significant result. I'll bet there's no difference. - and you would have to modify the fuel tank of the lawnmower as many of them run out of fuel whilst there is fuel in the tank, so it would be better to modify it so you know that all the fuel has been used.

[Loraine267]

Thanks for your comments Wig, but there's a lot of people out there that feel the same way and have noticed a difference lately - can't all be imagining it.

[ispartacus75]

Different additives work with different engines. Its a given now that most companies will use additives in their petrol so each company IS selling a different product. And because of this engines are going to react differently to different brands a fuel. Like I have previously stated when I had a 406 I wouldnt use Sainsbury diesel because the mileage return was so bad compared to Shell diesel. Now, with a Ford Focus, I get a much more comparable mileage return.

Yes the basic petroleum product is pretty much the same for each company but the additives that each uses change that product into their own unique 'flavour'. So its very concievable that some cars wont like brand A while running better on brand B

[richcope1]

Firstly, I'm a diesel guy not a petrol guy (hallelujah for being under a quid finally!). Secondly I agree with a lot being said on both sides of this argument. On the one hand I don't touch supermarket fuels, but on the other hand I truly believe it greatly depends on the age of your car and the type of your fuel. I'm no expert but I have read through a fair few topics like this on motoring forums where they have some pretty knowledgeable guys (Of which I am sadly not one) so I will impart what I have learned and see if anyone knows different. The "additives" you speak of are a mixture of lubricants and detergents that clean and lubricate your fuel system (injectors, fuel hoses etc). If you've got a newish car your fuel system is already clean and changing to branded fuel will make little difference. However if you have been using tesco/asda etc fuel for a decent length of time it's lack of additives will mean more gunge in your fuel system. Changing to a branded fuel should show you a steady increase in mpg over time as the state of your car inards improves, you should not be noticing radical drops then gains from switching to supermarket fuel then back to branded fuel. Also the effects seem to be exasterbated for diesel's since it is such a dirty fuel compared to petrol which has already been nicely refined.

My other point is that you absolutley cannot compare fuel consumption on a tank by tank basis since there is such a huge number of factors (wind direction, temperature, road surface, high or low traffic, town or motorway driving, mood , car contents to name but a few) that could account for this that it's not worth trying to argue the point. My father (he has his uses) does around 50k a year in his company car and the company pay for most of this as its buisiness mileage so he has done tests of spending a month at a time (approx 8-10 tankfulls of diesel) sticking to one specific brand each month and he reckoned that bang for buck BP, Esso and Shell all had pretty similar mpg while supermarket fuels made it plumet but using the fancy Shell V-Power Diesel didn't have any noticeable improvement.

The other thing they seem to think on many motoring forums is that the hyper fuels like V power and BP Ultimate are more likely to show you improved responce and acceleration than any mpg benefits.

So thats my 2 cents worth.

[vansboy]

Ok, my input...

I won't use supermarket petrol, mainly 'cos I know it's a different product from the Shell garage. In previous posts, it's been confirmed the tanker driver selects which additives are put into his vehicle, usually at the point of loading. He uses a card to select thes, for each delivery he's to make.

Plus, of course the fuel is cheaper at Shel, if you have a Shell credit card - worth 3p litre off & a Shell loyalty Drivers Club card (but other posts will show how unpredictable this scheme is!!).

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=483370

Combine this with buying from a Shell site near a superstore & they usually price match!

Mrs V has her Mx5 only EVER fueled with Shell's premuim grade petrol. So maybe in a million miles time, we can have the engine stripped & see if it's any cleaner than one run on ordinary unleaded!!

What the OP might like to try, is Tesco premium petrol - see if that improves performance & mpg!!

VB

[richcope1]

25th September 2008 - Which? Review (http://www.which.co.uk/about-which/press/product-press-releases/which-magazine/2008/09/not-so-super-fuel.jsp)

26th September 2008 - News story including some comeback from fuel companies (http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/story/Super-fuels-not-worth-the-money/48318)

Knew I'd see a review somewhere...

[boyse7en]

but there's a lot of people out there that feel the same way and have noticed a difference lately - can't all be imagining it

There are thousands of people who believe man didn't land on the moon, that Evolution doesn't exist and that spraying yourself with a cheap deodorant will make you irresistible to women.

So yes, they could all be imagining it.

[vansboy]

There are thousands of people who believe man didn't land on the moon, that Evolution doesn't exist and that spraying yourself with a cheap deodorant will make you irresistible to women.

So yes, they could all be imagining it.

The moon, well how would they have got there? It only comes out at night!! The rockets went up in daytime!!

Evolution, you trying to maske a monkey, of us??!!

Well, since I used that stuff that turns me into chocolate - IT WORKED!! - Just ask all those glamour models, that keep trying to eat bits of me!!

VB

[tomstickland]

Years ago I had an 1.1 Escort with an engine that was very sensitive to fuel grade. I kept detailed records over a year and noticed a difference between Shell and supermarket petrol.

[Idiophreak]

Might start a test on this. If I just note down the amount of miles per tank and the brand of petrol used, after a year, say, I should get a fairly representative average for each brand...

[mikey72]

I've kept a record of my mpg. Worst was Shell, best was Tesco.
(1.8 petrol Zafira)

[ap2000]

I would highly recommend the following site to track mpg and car costs:

http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/

You can get reminders when your MOT, service etc is due, work out costs per mile and compare your mpg to similar cars.

[AndysDad]

Hi,

Has any one noticed that when the likes of Tesco do a discount offer - the milage you get per gallon really drops off?

In my Honda JAZZ I usually get about 47 mpg - but when I filled up at Tesco on the 5p offer it goes down to 41mpg. I've noticed this several time. (when I filled up at a non supmarket petrol station it goes back up to 47 (plus) mpg.
This is for the same journey to and from work.
:money:
What kind of discount offers ?haven't noticed any yet at my Tesco.They are always dearer that ASDA or Morrison's and Tesco admit they only match the competitors if they need to.

[vansboy]

What kind of discount offers ?haven't noticed any yet at my Tesco.They are always dearer that ASDA or Morrison's and Tesco admit they only match the competitors if they need to.

In fact, what has actually happened, is we've all - well some of us - been brainwashed to think the superstores have given us & still are, lower priced fuel.

In reality, all that's happened, is the vast majority of filling stations have been put out of business, by them.

This has enabled the margins to be maintained, on fuel, cheaper & easier for fuel companies to beliver in bulk, but actually INCREASE the amount of fuel we'd need to use, 'cos we now all travel a greater distance to fill up, by patronising the superstores.

They dictate the price & no, there aren't any REAL offers!! 5p litre off, if you spend £50 instore!!? Maximum 100lts each sale?? Not many vehicles have that capacity, anyway, so even a virtually empty tank, might get 50lts. So they're giving you just over £2 once the VAT is accounted for.

Generous, or not!!

VB

VB

[Idiophreak]

What kind of discount offers ?

OP's post reads quite funny, really :)

Surely the fuel you get if you don't use a voucher is the same as the fuel you get if you do?

Or do you go up, give them your 5p off voucher and when they scan it through, some little elves get to work, drain some of the fuel out of your tank and top it back up with water...Just seems unlikely ;)

[JPS]

I've had several debates on this on online forums and it is clear that Tesco petrol does not agree with some cars, it's as simple as that - depends on how fussy your engine is. It made my car a few years ago dreadful to drive, caution lights kept coming on as it was affecting the O2 sensor! - put Shell in and it was fine! Tesco Super Unleaded 99RON however, is actually one of if not THE best ironically and I use it in my Clio sport - but wouldn't touch Tesco RON 95 ever again! I'd always recommend Shell as they are usually the same price as Tesco (if not cheaper sometimes) and the quality of their petrol is always up to scratch.

[AndysDad]

OP's post reads quite funny, really :)

Surely the fuel you get if you don't use a voucher is the same as the fuel you get if you do?

Or do you go up, give them your 5p off voucher and when they scan it through, some little elves get to work, drain some of the fuel out of your tank and top it back up with water...Just seems unlikely ;) Exactly ,thats why I was querying what 'offers' as I thought the Op couldn't be refering to the 5p discount.

[djheath]

Maybe its the fact you have £50 worth of shopping in the boot for part of the journey so your consumption is going down as soon as you leave the pump from the heavier load!

[denise123]

Funny enough we were having a chat to someone about this very subject a few weeks ago
We have a fiat sedici, [diesel 50 litre tank.]


When using total or texeco fuel, the car runs far better


When we go to Tesco or other supermarkets [as its cheaper] the car jolts and it chokes and it don’t go as well as it does on branded fuel


We had it serviced last week, the filters were filthy, and the turbos all clogged up the whole lot had to be cleaned [the car is just about one year old]


The guy that did it for us asked if we used supermarket fuel in her, we said sometimes, he said that high performance diesel cars should not use these supermarkets at all.


Then we spoke to others about the supermarket fuels, and they all said the same or similar things, mileage is down a little, and it is just not running like the car used to.


Then someone told us that the branded garages go in first to get their stocks, they grade it somehow, not sure how, but the fuel that is of a lower grading than they would like is left behind for the supermarkets to pick up, which is why supermarkets have it a little lower in price, I am not sure if this is true, I do not understand it as it goes into car bits and then becomes a little complicated to understand, but the garage guy said to us to keep the car in tip top condition, and to keep her running smoothly without any hitches, to make sure we only use garages such as shell, texeco and total, and not to use supermarket fuel anymore, no matter how much cheaper the fuel is. He stressed again that the fuel they sell can be compared to the left over’s that someone else does not want



Not to sure at all, I always thought fuel was fuel, until we have spoken to people, and then this thread, we wont touch supermarket garages anymore, the guy who serviced our car said he had not seen so much muck before in a car that was not that old.



Could be something in it, and maybe something for watchdog to have a look into? It would be interesting anyway to see what they come up with.

[ginvzt]

Hi,

Has any one noticed that when the likes of Tesco do a discount offer - the milage you get per gallon really drops off?

In my Honda JAZZ I usually get about 47 mpg - but when I filled up at Tesco on the 5p offer it goes down to 41mpg. I've noticed this several time. (when I filled up at a non supmarket petrol station it goes back up to 47 (plus) mpg.
This is for the same journey to and from work.
:money:

We have Honda Jazz, mostly fill up at Tesco's, sometimes at Shell and the mpg is always 47-49. No difference, really!

[goldspanners]

We had it serviced last week, the filters were filthy, and the turbos all clogged up the whole lot had to be cleaned [the car is just about one year old]


do you run it until the tank is almost empty? this would cause the filter to be filthy.

why were the turbos in such a state? is an oil seal leaking? you should have asked what supermarket fuel has to do with a dirty turbo.

[jammin]

There are thousands of people who believe man didn't land on the moon, that Evolution doesn't exist and that spraying yourself with a cheap deodorant will make you irresistible to women.

So yes, they could all be imagining it.

Evolutions is merely a theory, not fact. So your analogy is flawed. :p

[denise123]

do you run it until the tank is almost empty? this would cause the filter to be filthy.

why were the turbos in such a state? is an oil seal leaking? you should have asked what supermarket fuel has to do with a dirty turbo.

no we dont run until its almost empty,[mainly because we rely on the car so much that once it reaches just under a quarter of a tank we fill up again] the guy said that there was no reason that he could see as to why the turbo's were that dirty at all, when we were talking to him, the only thing he could say was not to use supermarket fuel anymore

as an example, we once did a run to yorkshire, filling the tank up at tesco, put just under £50 worth in, on the way home again, we had to stop of and put more fuel in the tank as it was quite low [lower than we like to see]

this trip to see son graduate from harrogate afc, we filled up at a normal garage, stuck £45 quids worth in, [I cant compare as the prices have gone down to 99.9p a litre now my maths is crap!] but we went from north wales, [close to the island] up to tadcaster to stay in a travel lodge, then the next day to harrogate, then all the way home again, without having to fill the tank up anymore.

the other trip to yorkshire,[that i wrote above] where we filled up at tesco, we stopped of at kirk smeaton for the night, then drove to harrogate from there, it was at a service station on the way home that we had to fill up again.

i cant compare how much fuel we put in her, but i think the trip where we had to fill up again we were paying around the £1.25 to £1.30 something a litre from tesco.

we try to keep to an average speed, and keep an eye on the revs, so as to conserve fuel consumption as best we can, and there were no hold ups at all on either of these trips, [we have done quite a few trips to harrogate where the motorway was blocked, and the fuel went down like crazy, so i dont count these at all, just go on normal driving conditions and no hold ups]

so I dont know, we just now put it down to the grading of the fuel at supermarkets, as there seems to be no other reason for this at all. And a promise that we wont touch supermarket fuel anymore, [sad to see my clubcard points go down though!;) ] maybe its just us, but as i said, talking to people quite a few are saying they do not use supermarkets fuel anymore.

[gardner1]

[quote=denise123;16876363]


















Then someone told us that the branded garages go in first to get their stocks, they grade it somehow, not sure how, but the fuel that is of a lower grading than they would like is left behind for the supermarkets to pick up, which is why supermarkets have it a little lower in price, I am not sure if this is true, I do not understand it as it goes into car bits and then becomes a little complicated to understand, but the garage guy said to us to keep the car in tip top condition, and to keep her running smoothly without any hitches, to make sure we only use garages such as shell, texeco and total, and not to use supermarket fuel anymore, no matter how much cheaper the fuel is. He stressed again that the fuel they sell can be compared to the left over’s that someone else does not want







]:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:: rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: