View Full Version : Trains: Sneaky restriction on First Open Returns from 7th Sept 2008
From the Virgin website, but I'm guessing this will apply to all Train Operating Companies:
First Open Returns
For journeys after 7th September, your outward journey must be made on the date specified, prior to 7th September it can be made up to one calendar month after the date specified. Return portions of a return ticket can be made within one calendar month. Reservations are not required but are recommended for longer journeys. The outward portion of the ticket is valid only in conjunction with the unused return portion.
So, you can pay hundreds of pounds for a flexible ticket, and find you can now only travel outbound on the date on the ticket, unless you pay the admin fee for a refund and associated hassle. You'd think, for what the TOC's charge for these tickets, they'd be bending over backwards to make them as flexible and passenger-friendly as possible.
A survey was done - and it will affect less than half of a percentage of people, whilst stopping people using the same one 20 times a month to commute with. AND you can break your journey for an overnight stay if you want to.
Before ranting - is it actually going to affect you, or anyone else you know? Also, it is the 'Anytime' tickets as a whole, it is not unique to Virgin or first class.
Altarf
01-09-2008, 9:15 PM
whilst stopping people using the same one 20 times a month to commute with
No it won't, they will just change the methodology of their fraud. As you point out at the moment if you are dishonest and commute between A & B then people can use the same Open Return until it is punched by a ticket inspector.
Now all they will do is buy two Anytime returns, one from A to B, and one from B to A. OK they have to use the outward part of the A to B and B to A on the date on the ticket, but they can continue abusing the return parts of each as before for the rest of the month.
No it won't, they will just change the methodology of their fraud. As you point out at the moment if you are dishonest and commute between A & B then people can use the same Open Return until it is punched by a ticket inspector.
Now all they will do is buy two Anytime returns, one from A to B, and one from B to A. OK they have to use the outward part of the A to B and B to A on the date on the ticket, but they can continue abusing the return parts of each as before for the rest of the month.
That is true. Lets hope it helps to reduce the extent of the scam though (which is huge).
Altarf
02-09-2008, 11:04 PM
Well rather than fiddle about with the T&Cs on the tickets, just put some ticket inspectors on the trains.
Well rather than fiddle about with the T&Cs on the tickets, just put some ticket inspectors on the trains.
And while we are at it, lets put a police officer on every single street, just incase some crime happens?
Automatic ticket barriers which swallow used tickets at all the London Termini would be a very good start to stopping this scam. The 170 of them at Waterloo should help significantly once they are all in operation.
Before ranting - is it actually going to affect you, or anyone else you know? Also, it is the 'Anytime' tickets as a whole, it is not unique to Virgin or first class.
Who's ranting? By making that accusation, you're the first on the thread to bring in a level of unnecessarily emotive language.
Yes, it does affect me.
I did say that I guessed it wasn't unique to Virgin.
I can't help but wonder if you have a vested interest here, given the way you are so defensive of the downgrading of the flexibility of the most expensive tickets. Those affected may be only 0.005% of passengers, but there will be more who pay for the flexibility but then don't need it, and we are certainly a considerably higher percentage in terms of the revenue share.
Voyager2002
03-09-2008, 11:43 AM
I am surprised by this news: it always used to be the case that the outbound portion of a flexible ticket could only be used on the date stated. Since there is no discount for advance purchase, anyone using this kind of ticket can easily postpone purchase until they are sure when they want to travel. So I cannot get upset about this change, and appreciate that it may help to reduce levels of fraud.
Who's ranting? By making that accusation, you're the first on the thread to bring in a level of unnecessarily emotive language.
Yes, it does affect me.
I did say that I guessed it wasn't unique to Virgin.
I can't help but wonder if you have a vested interest here, given the way you are so defensive of the downgrading of the flexibility of the most expensive tickets. Those affected may be only 0.005% of passengers, but there will be more who pay for the flexibility but then don't need it, and we are certainly a considerably higher percentage in terms of the revenue share.
You were quite clearly ranting in the original post - don't try to throw it back at me.
How does it affect you? Genuine question, not having a go. Please don't state the obvious that you break your journey outbound - just an example of how it affects you.
And I'm not defensive about it - I'm pleased that it will help towards eliminating ticket fraud which is a vast problem, and if that means inconvieniencing a tiny proportion of people (you stated 0.005% of people who buy a particular type of ticket) then I am all for it.
I am surprised by this news: it always used to be the case that the outbound portion of a flexible ticket could only be used on the date stated. Since there is no discount for advance purchase, anyone using this kind of ticket can easily postpone purchase until they are sure when they want to travel. So I cannot get upset about this change, and appreciate that it may help to reduce levels of fraud.
Well many years ago (many many years) single tickets were valid for 3 days (outside London) and returns for 3 months. Can't recall if there was any restriction on the outward journey.
Things change. I have no doubt they will do so again.
Altarf
03-09-2008, 9:44 PM
And while we are at it, lets put a police officer on every single street, just incase some crime happens?
Funnily enough your sarcastic comment has been adopted by my local train operating company.
They recently installed ticket barriers at my station, which means that they have to pay a newly employed member of staff to stand by them for 14 hours every day. The only problem is that apart from the morning rush hour and evening rush hour, he has nothing to do, as almost nobody uses the train during the day.
So why is it more sensible to pay a police officer, oops sorry, ticket inspector to stand on a single station, just in case a crime happens than to actually put them on the train?
Funnily enough your sarcastic comment has been adopted by my local train operating company.
They recently installed ticket barriers at my station, which means that they have to pay a newly employed member of staff to stand by them for 14 hours every day. The only problem is that apart from the morning rush hour and evening rush hour, he has nothing to do, as almost nobody uses the train during the day.
So why is it more sensible to pay a police officer, oops sorry, ticket inspector to stand on a single station, just in case a crime happens than to actually put them on the train?
I didn't say it was more sensible. That is a question you will have to ask the TOC that manage that particular station - there might be a good reason for it, there may not.
SweetPea73
04-09-2008, 12:18 PM
I must say that when I ask to see all tickets , I stamp all tickets , some people, not many at all in 1st , but mostly those holding a 16-25 card quite often do not want me to stamp it!!
When they eventually hand it over I stamp it back and front. I have heard that many students will sell the return part of the ticket for a £5 to their mates when they are skint!, I also know of people that try and rub off the stamp with some very clever ink eraser!
Altarf
04-09-2008, 5:33 PM
I didn't say it was more sensible.
I am glad to see that you have changed your mind.
I am glad to see that you have changed your mind.
It is great taking things out of context to try and point score isn't it? It is a sure-fire way to lose any credibility you had.
Altarf
04-09-2008, 6:10 PM
So you do think that it is sensible having a ticket inspector standing around with nothing to do for most of the day. Sorry I thought that you were just being sarcastic when you suggested -
And while we are at it, lets put a police officer on every single street, just incase some crime happens?
maple41
04-09-2008, 7:24 PM
OP is right in my opinion. My company used to buy standard return tickets for Peterborough / London, it didn't matter if meetings were cancelled and rearranged because the whole ticket could be used later in the month. They then started buying in advance on a specific train beacuse it was so much cheaper. Not always convenient, but ..... I guess this new restiction is just a way of fleecing the travelling public because you can't ( I believe) get the ticket reissued without paying a fee and if you have bought over the net you can't take it the ticket office for a refund / reissue. Think this is another example of screw the customer, inconvenience the majority to prevent a minority of misuse. By the way don't think I have ever travelled Nat Express East Coast without a full ticket check on the train. So this new restriction isn't preventing any fraud on this line.
Pete268
04-09-2008, 8:22 PM
I must say, I travel first class from York to London and return once sometimes twice per week and I cannot ever recall not having my ticket checked and stamped or a hole punched in it. Usually this occurs twice, once just south of York and again just after the penultimate stop on the way to Kings Cross. Usually once on the northbound leg but occasionally twice as well.
Peter
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