products for teenage acne [Archive] - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums

andyjb

31-08-2008, 2:53 PM

I have used all sorts of gels, lotions and washes for the last 5 years (I am now 18) and my acne is still there, however I would suggest that the face washes (e.g. clean and clear) with the micro bead things have done the best to stop it getting out of hand.

The stuff like quinoderm in the 100ml tubes works just as well, but my face started to flake about 3 hours after applying it, as well as a few mates who used similar products. Plus it smells like most medicines do - disgusting, especially on hot days.

Asking your pharmacist would be the best route, only see the doctor if it gets really bad, but be wary of pharmacists as they try to sell you the most expensive thing on the shelf, which doesn't necessarily work. Just steer clear of Freederm.

danio

31-08-2008, 2:54 PM

Clinique do a 3 step system called Anti Blemish, It is a facial wash, clarifying lotion and moisturiser, If you visit the clinique counter at boots (or at a department store) they will do a skin test and advise you from that. If you have any problems with the products that they have advised you to use, they are very good at taking them back.

I would recommend seeing your GP who may prescribe a long term antibiotic

My daughter is using both of the above for around a month now and her skin has cleared up nicely

Nile

31-08-2008, 3:37 PM

Hello Polly

I'll move your thread to the 'Health & Beauty' board.

Hi, Martin’s asked me to post this in these circumstances: I’ve asked Board Guides to move threads if they’ll receive a better response elsewhere(please see this rule (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=1009335#post1009335)) so this post/thread has been moved to another board, where it should get more replies. If you have any questions about this policy please email abuse@moneysavingexpert.com (abuse@moneysavingexpert.com).

Regards

Nile

skyeandeviesmummy

31-08-2008, 3:40 PM

Getting a good tea tree oil to dab on the spots should help but I agree an exfoliating face wash is a very good idea.

LillyJ

31-08-2008, 4:55 PM

And tell him to cut out all those sweets, chocolate, crisps etc!

Why? Might stop him getting obese - won't stop acne.

Loopy Girl

31-08-2008, 5:09 PM

And tell him to cut out all those sweets, chocolate, crisps etc!

Total old wives tale. Spots are caused by over production of oil on the skin...not bars of Galaxy!!!:rotfl:

lizzie dripping

31-08-2008, 5:16 PM

My 12 year old has just started using Witch face wash and it has made a big difference. The Witch stick is also good for isolated spots.

melancholly

31-08-2008, 6:15 PM

perhaps getting him to use a moisturiser will also help - i always avoided using anything as i thought my skin was oily enough, but once i started it seemed to help things. i'm trying out the clinique anti-blemish moisturiser atm, but unfortunately my acne flares up under stress and the last few weeks have been quite bad so it's tough to tell!!

btw sigur - this thread isn't in the arms so try to play nicely!

abbecer

31-08-2008, 6:26 PM

Try and find someone in your area that sells Forever Living Products. All products are natural and are almost pure aloe vera. The liquid soap is amazing for skin problems. It is fairly expensive but lasts absolutely ages as it is so concentrated.

I am involved with the company and want to be honest about that. My step brother had horrific acne before using it and now has no spots and after 2 years use the scars are fading too.

Hope this helps

Rebecca x

Polly

01-09-2008, 9:18 AM

Some good tips there - many thanks. Off to spend some Boots points ;) and will let you know how we go

harryharp

03-09-2008, 9:36 AM

Some good tips there - many thanks. Off to spend some Boots points ;) and will let you know how we go
Please let us know if you find anything that works Polly- I too have a 12-year old son who has just hit puberty big-time and has a load of really nasty spots on his forehead. He's just started using Clearasil face wash- he uses it in the bath at night but I can't get him to be bothered with it in the mornings. He hasn't tried any creams or lotions yet. He also won't push his hair back off his face, and I think that is part of the problem. He won't have a short hair cut!

fuglyjowls

03-09-2008, 10:16 AM

Yes please do let us know how you get on - my son is the same as previous poster - just started to develop spots on his forehead all of a sudden (and has a long floppy fringe which he refuses to cut!). I've given him some of my facial scrub and toner/cleanser but so far it isn't doing much so I'd love to hear of any really good products before I spend loads of money on stuff that doesn't work!

corinda32

03-09-2008, 12:10 PM

I have had skin problems for many years and I have discovered that the skin care that you buy off the shelf just dries out your skin and then you skin over produces oil and makes the spots worse in the long run. Basically what you need to do is get the skin back to a healthy balance with cleansing, exfoliating and moisturising. I have used Liz Earle http://uk.lizearle.com/ and I am about to start using Dermalogica http://www.dermalogica.com/product_international.asp?region=A&location=UK both pretty expensive options, but for ongoing problems it is the way to go. Stress, anxiety, hormones, diet and lifestyle seem to affect me. But everyone is different and teenage acne can be quite different from adult acne. Good luck and I hope that you find the solution.

beautyscientist

03-09-2008, 1:06 PM

There isn't any strong evidence that what you eat affects your acne - though I still wonder if it might make a small difference in some cases. The number of people that claim that eating a Mars bar gives them spots does seem remarkable.

But the main thing seems to be hormones so I doubt that a diet change or any product will make much difference to a 12 year old.

I suggest letting it be. He is too young to be chasing girls and any intervention at this stage probably won't work and may even make things worse.

dickoa

03-09-2008, 2:09 PM

I was a 'spotty teenager' and didnt have th e cure then but i do now! I use sudocrem or germaloids- yes its a heamariod cream but it will reduce the redness and size and kill infection as it is antibacterial. The clinique 3 step anti-blemish solutions range is also very good but more expensive. hope this helps!!!

redwoodmazza

03-09-2008, 2:16 PM

Pink Princess 1

03-09-2008, 3:28 PM

Polly

03-09-2008, 3:46 PM

I know its very early days but we're seeing results already after just 3 days of using Witch products (from Boots) and recommended earlier in this thread. Thanks again OP :T I bought the facewash and a spot treatment stick but so far, he is only using the facewash (every morning in the shower). The stick is for when you feel a spot flaring up so too late for this particular batch. His forehead was really red and 'angry' a few days ago but by this morning, I had to look closely to see the remaining spots. It's not scientific of course and maybe they would have subsided anyway but we're impressed. The facewash was £3.99 and the stick £2.98 but when I checked my receipt, there was a multibuy deal (which I didn't see advertised) I was charged only £5 for the two. Good old Boots! It may also help that my son has very short hair so no fringe to irritate the forehead. Not everyone agrees on the effect of chocolate/sweets but long before now, my son always got a spot a day or two after eating chocolate so I'll point this out to him too. He's very keen to take care of himself and something tells me that there could be a girl or two that he's trying to impress! :rolleyes:

Addams

03-09-2008, 4:04 PM

Hi there,
Our son is 16 and had a really clear complexion until April this year. He has always used Clearasil face wash and similar products for ages which I thought had been keeping spots at bay.
However, in April he developed really bad spots and his face became red and sore. I assumed this was stress related due to his looming GCSEs. However, Freederm and similar creams made no improvement. Our doctor prescribed a course of anti-biotics which made no difference either.
Our son was becoming embarrassed about being seen in public because of his face. So, I took him back to the doctor who decided he needed to see a Specialist. He prescribed stronger medication to take while we waited for an appointment with a Specilaist Dermatologist. The new tablets made no real difference either.
However, our son saw the Specialist yesterday and has just been prescribed a 4-month course of Roaccutane which he starts taking tomorrow. He had to have a blood test first as Roaccutane can affect the liver. He has to have another blood test in a month.
Unfortunately, she said the drug will probably make no difference for the first 2 months and in fact might make it worse!!! BUT after 4-6 months it should be cured.
She explained it is severe acne caused by a bacterial infection in the sweat producing pores of his face. Nasty. Nothing to do with diet.
So, if your child suffers from BAD spots and the usual products don't seem to make any difference, get them checked out with your GP.
So, hopefully by Christmas our lad should be clear skinned again. Here's hoping......

Good luck everyone.

I was 38 before I was finally given Roaccutane. The antibiotic tablets kept it at a reasonable state for years, then finally stopped working altogether.

I had only been taking Roaccutane for a week, before i started to notice a difference, so dont despair. My skin did get very very dry though, so make sure he has a good moisturiser (after finishing the course he wont need it anymore, as his skin will still be oily, but no spots!)

I took an extra course afterwards for an extra 4 months, but that was just to clear up any minor spots.

I have now been mostly spot free for 5 months now (I do occasionally get a spot every now and then, but not really bad ones). Good luck.

I do still have very oily skin which is hard to control. Does anyone have any suggestions that might help?

The Ubiquitous Mrs Smith

03-09-2008, 6:10 PM

The best thing I've found to control my oily skin is er... oil! The skin needs a certain amount of oil and stripping it of it by using alcohol based products will only make the skin produce more in defence. Try using things like the Speizia (or Spiezia, I forget!) oil based cleanser. That made such a huge difference to my skin. I also love Suki lemongrass cleanser for exfoliating. Avoid alchohol based products. I accidently bought a toner the other day which has it in but I didn't realise until I used it. I felt my skin wither up immediately and within hours my skin was oily when I had been fairly oil free for weeks!

I also find that double washing helps. As night I use Speizia to get rid of my makeup and then wash using a foaming face wash. Look for antibacterial ones which contain witch hazel, tea tree, peppermint, lavender etc. to get rid of germs. In the morning I just use the foam wash.

About six months ago I started only using 100% natural face care products and my skin has really improved so I would definately suggest looking into them. Try places like Lovelula.com and naturisimo.com (both might be co.uk actually).

Avoid Murad. It stinks and is really unpleasant to use. I used it for a few weeks and it made my skin to sore and irritated and it didn't even get rid of my spots!

chunkycharlie9

03-09-2008, 7:07 PM

Hi, i have acne, and never used to have it, i have tried all sorts of things: clinique anti-blemishes, witch hazel, tea tree, and i went to the doctors, and my doctor gave me this gel called panoxyl aquagel 5.0, it starts from 2.5, 5.0 and the strongest is 10.0, you can buy this over the counter (boots, pharmacies...), and all what you have to do is wash your face before you put it on your spots, and within a couple of weeks, the redness reduces and the spots dissapear. The worst thing to do is use scrubs! I used to use them once a week/fortnight, and my doctor told me to stop using it, as it just produces more oil, which produces more spots..... but to use a good moisturiser, which doesnt contain oil, a good one, is cliniques, and simply.
hope this helps

Addams

03-09-2008, 8:09 PM

Thanks thats great. I will definately look into 100% natural face care products. I never thought it would be good to use oil, but I'll give anything a go to see if it works!

Ted_Hutchinson

03-09-2008, 9:25 PM

There isn't any strong evidence that what you eat affects your acne - though I still wonder if it might make a small difference in some cases.The Dietary Cure for Acne (http://www.dietaryacnecure.com/download.htm[/url)

You can probably deduce what is recommended in the book by reading his research papers on acne.
Comment on acne and glycemic index. J Am Acad Dermatol. 2008 (http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/J%20Am%20Acad%20Dermatol%202008.pdf)

Dietary implications for the development of acne: a shifting paradigm (http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/Cordain%20US%20Dermatology%20Reviews.pdf)

Implications for the role of diet in acne (http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/Final%20Acne%20Article.pdf)
thought this might also be of interest.
It is quite common for us to get reports from people exclaiming about how clear-headed and full of energy they are after changing their way of eating to that recommended by The Dietary Cure for Acne.

But occasionally, people will experience some weakness when they first begin to eat this way. Dr. Cordain was recently quoted on MyDiabetes.com (http://www.healthcentral.com/diabetes/c/17/32397/low-carb-weak)about this phenomenon.

After a lifetime of eating processed carbohydrates, it may take your body a couple weeks to adjust its metabolism to higher quality, lower glycemic foods. But once it does, you will be amazed at how good you feel. You will no longer get the mid-morning or mid-afternoon blahs, and may even find that your use of caffiene naturally declines as you feel less need for that wake-up jolt.

As an email I received today said, "I started it to try and cure my acne, which it did! And I started dropping weight, though I wasn't overweight to begin with, I am enjoying my new leaner figure and seemly boundless energy. My head is clear and sharp, that cloudy, drowsy feeling is gone."

Low-carb diet found to be effective for acne (http://www.drbriffa.com/blog/2007/07/09/low-carb-diet-found-to-be-effective-for-acne/) Dr Briffa's blog

Here's another recent paper show Cordain was on the right track.
effects of a
low glycemic load diet on hormonal markers of acne: (http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/119230154/PDFSTART)These results suggest that increases in dietary glycemic load may augment the biological activity of sex hormones and IGF-I, suggesting that these diets may aggravate potential factors involved in acne development.

melancholly

04-09-2008, 12:01 AM

There isn't any strong evidence that what you eat affects your acne - though I still wonder if it might make a small difference in some cases. The number of people that claim that eating a Mars bar gives them spots does seem remarkable.
well when i eat chocolate i get spots - but that's because i reach for the chocolate when i'm stressed and the stress causes spots! ;)

moggylover

04-09-2008, 2:22 AM

I struggled with oily patches and breakouts from my teens until my late 30's when I discovered the joys of plain Distilled Witch Hazel. This is a liquid and very inexpensive and you just pour a little on cotton wool and wipe face with it. It is even nicer if you mix it with an equal quantity of pure rose water (but that is increasingly difficult to get these days) as it smells better.

Non-drying, but soothes spots within a very short while. Boots also do a Witch Hazel gel - cheaper than Witch Doctor but just as good.

My son gets the odd spot (13 year old) and the witch hazel usually manages to get rid of it within 24 - 36 hours without any soreness or dryness after.

Ted_Hutchinson

04-09-2008, 8:59 AM

I wonder if adults who get regular acne flare ups are rampant , sexy types:rolleyes: I still believe that stress is the biggest factor (for me anyway)and makes acne worseIf you consider those with PCOS they get acne and we find that a low glycaemic load diet in combination with medication may contribute to an improvement in symptom relief in patients with PCOS. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18721400)
For those who are unaware a low glycaemic load diet is one that avoids those items that raise insulin levels, (ie fructose, high fructose glucose syrup, wheat, starchy veg)

We also see that In patients with PCOS, a hypocaloric diet supplemented with protein reduced body weight, fat mass, serum cholesterol, and apoprotein B more than the diet supplemented with simple sugars. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18691705)

By definition if you cut down on the carbs you will reduce the intake of those foods that drive your appetite (thus reducing calorie intake) and also raise the amounts of protein/fat you consume.
This diet includes an increase in fiber and a decrease in refined carbohydrates, as well as a decrease in trans and saturated fats and an increase in omega-3 and omega-9 fatty acids. Foods that contain anti-inflammatory compounds (fiber, omega-3 fatty acids, vitamin E, and red wine) should also be emphasized. Evidence is provided for the impact of these dietary changes on improvements in the androgen profile of PCOS patients. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18203965)

In the same way we despise those mindless vandals who attempt to derail trains and cause harm to others by blocking the track, so those mindless vandals who intend to cause harm to others by trying to derail threads/posts providing the latest scientific findings should also be dealt with firmly.

I'm sure I don't need to remind anyone that Low serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentrations are associated with insulin resistance and obesity in women with polycystic ovary syndrome. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17177140)

ClareEmily

04-09-2008, 9:14 AM

Clearasil and the others on the market just made my daughters skin worse..shes 14 now and regularly uses Freederm - its quite expensive about £10 a tube but I just get her a presription from the drs... its brilliant:p

Freederm gel is fantastic, highly recommend it, still use it occasionally now clears skin up really fast.

melancholly

04-09-2008, 10:40 AM

I wonder if adults who get regular acne flare ups are rampant , sexy types:rolleyes:
well i hope my OH would like to think so :rotfl:
(the reality at the moment is a long way from that, but here's hoping!)

candyflossing

04-09-2008, 12:06 PM

Don't waste any money! Go and see a GP, they will send you to a dermatologist (there is usually a few month wait so don't wait around) who will prescribe you free meds (because he's under 18 & in full time education).

My bro spent a lot of money on over-the-counter skin products, ended up going to the derm & getting free creme which cleared it up in 3 months.

Ted_Hutchinson

04-09-2008, 2:08 PM

Don't waste any money! Go and see a GP, they will send you to a dermatologist (there is usually a few month wait so don't wait around) who will prescribe you free meds (because he's under 18 & in full time education). I agree it is a waste of money simply treating the symptoms and not the cause of the problem. Eliminating the cause of the problem is the simplest/cheapest moneysaving solution in the long run.

Understanding that acne is a problem of excess androgen and dietary glycemic load augments the biological activity of sex hormones, it is a simple, cheap and easy to remove high glycemic load items from the diet and thus reduce the excess hormonal activity.
According to Dr Davis low glycemic load diet is best for heart (http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2008/05/wheat-free-is-not-gluten-free.html) and Dr McCleary says it is best for brain function (http://www.drmccleary.com/2007/12/21/BecomingABrain.aspx). This is the diet our bodies evolved over 2million years to thrive on so the sooner you junk processed highly refined foods and adopt a diet more like that our bodies evolved with (http://www.thepaleodiet.com/) the sooner the problems will resolve.

When you reduce the glycemic load you reduce the excess amount of androgen and thus resolve the problem.

Furey

04-09-2008, 3:02 PM

well i have to admit my skin improved when on the atkins diet (not to mention reduced carb cravings, blindingly clear head, better sleep pattern and significant weight loss). i've always been spotty but applying midly watered down TCP via cotton wool to your whole face works really really well at preventing and curing spots. do it before bed though as it smells quite strong!

Paparika

04-09-2008, 4:41 PM

I started DS on soaps that had no nasties in products from lush (http://www.lush.co.uk/)
which helped for a bit, but he was never one for washing...
so now he uses clearisil facial wash with gritty bits in which does help and he stops when it clears up, to give his face a chance to not rely on products.

Works really well, he started getting spotty 2 years ago when he was 11 now he is 13 it seems to be under control.

Now if we can only get the cradle cap under control yes cradle cap at 13

beautyscientist

04-09-2008, 4:45 PM

In the same way we despise those mindless vandals who attempt to derail trains and cause harm to others by blocking the track, so those mindless vandals who intend to cause harm to others by trying to derail threads/posts providing the latest scientific findings should also be dealt with firmly.

I read this and a couple of other related things you have posted with interest. I am a scientist with a particular interest in this area, and furthermore I have recently been modifying my diet in a way similar to what you are suggesting and my personal experience fits in with what you are saying.

But this is just an internet forum! Anyone reading this, remember -

You need to do you own research. Anyone can post anything on here and could be talkign complete rubbish or just trying to sell you something.

Ted_Hutchinson

04-09-2008, 5:08 PM

You need to do you own research. Anyone can post anything on here and could be talkign complete rubbish or just trying to sell you something.That is why I always include links to the scientific medical research that I rely on, or links to Dr's blogs that are evidence based and not linked to commercial sales of particular supplements/diet regimes/or other sales related media.
Correcting Vit D3 omega 3 and magnesium status should only cost a few pence and there is absolutely no need to buy special foods or bars for a low carb diet.
The plan I used (http://blogg.passagen.se/dahlqvistannika/?anchor=my_lowcarb_dietary_programe_in) saved me money because I am eating/drinking so much less now I have lost the carb induced craving.

If I had acne I think I would also cut out Dairy products. Milk, yoghurt, cheese, Feta cheese, cottage cheese, Creme Fraiche, cream cheese, butter, mayonnaise etc.

You can listen to Cordain talking about his research on acne here. (http://www.acne.org/interviews/2008/07/10/dr-cordain-phd-in-health/)

cjmumto2

05-09-2008, 3:30 PM

I find the neutrogena range the best and great value for money and they are on special in tescos until the 9th Sep. I have stuggled all my life and have been on roacutane and antibiotics but now just use Neutrogena which keeps it under control and as well as a healthy diet. Lots of fresh fruit and veg and water.

beautyscientist

06-09-2008, 10:35 AM

The other products available from pharmacies have benzoyl peroxide in them (quinoderm, panoxyl). They are often effective in mild to moderate acne, and low strengths seem to be as effective as higher strengths. They can irritate the skin - this can be reduced by gradually building up the time the skin is exposed to the product, and it does get better with time.

I have worked on some of the products moneysaving pharamacist mentions and this is excellent advice. Benzoyl peroxide is definitely effective but there is hardly any advantage to using the higher levels. Unless your acne is really really severe stick with the lower strengths.

caketaker

06-09-2008, 3:44 PM

Hi there
although not a teenager anymore (35yrs) i thought i would inpute anyway.I have suffered from spots since my teens.I wouldn't say acne,but enough spots to make you want to stay indoors & hide some days.
Anyway about 6 months ago i saw online somewhere about Omega 3 pure fish oils and spots.As i took a vitamin tablet every day, i also started swallowing 2 x tesco Omega 3 pure fish oils tablets as well.Not expense really to buy.It has worked for me.My face/skin is 95% better and i shall continue with these now.
It is not an over night cure and you have to keep taking them daily but its worth a go.They are also good for consentration and the heart i believe.
Try researching online or talking to the doctor,but for me they have really really helped.

Ted_Hutchinson

06-09-2008, 4:30 PM

Anyway about 6 months ago i saw online somewhere about Omega 3 pure fish oils and spots.Acne: Fats, Oils... Saturated, Unsaturated... Omega-3, Omega-6, Omega-9... What does this have to do with Acne anyway? (http://www.absoluteacneinfo.com/fats.html) This article has some reasonably good information on omega 3 acne connection. It fits in with the information Cordain provides as our current levels of omega 6 only occur in Western diets and our bodies did not evolve with high levels of omega 6 available.

The only comment I would make is to suggest you read Dr Davis as you probably (even with 2 capsules daily) do not take sufficient omega 3 (http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/search/label/Fish%20oil) The benefits really start becoming measurable when you take more than1.5g of EPA+ DHA that means about 6 normal fish oil capsules or 3 of these super strength (http://www.zipvit.com/cgi-bin/popupprod2a.pl?prodcode=A316)

You will see some research linked to in post #33 (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=13896341&postcount=33) that explains why omega 3 may help those with acne.

harryharp

06-09-2008, 5:19 PM

Hi there
Anyway about 6 months ago i saw online somewhere about Omega 3 pure fish oils and spots.As i took a vitamin tablet every day, i also started swallowing 2 x tesco Omega 3 pure fish oils tablets as well.Not expense really to buy.It has worked for me.My face/skin is 95% better and i shall continue with these now.

Unfortunately vegetarians (like our family) can't take these. Flaxseed oil is usually cited as the vegetarian equivalent to fish oils, but whether they'd have as good an effect on the skin I don't know.

lovelycupoftea

06-09-2008, 6:46 PM

Hi Polly

Personally i wouldnt touch any of the clearasil, clinique or so called acne treatments on the market, they are way too harsh on the skin and over stimulate the production of sebum in the skin (I'm a Beauty Therapist so I should know).. If you want a cheap brand to start, Visibly Clear by Neurtrogena is very good, they have little pads that you use with water and are very simple to use and they also have an oil free moisturiser. More expensive brand would be Dermalogica, but drag him in to a salon to let the Therapist look at his skin before buying. They do little trial sizes for around £20 so if not suitable you havent wasted too much money. If you dont see an improvement in about 4-6 weeks then take him to the doctors for antibiotics. Sometimes these are the only things that work to kill the bacteria off...Hope this helps

regan.lottie

06-09-2008, 10:33 PM

Unfortnately I suffered for 5+ years with my skin - very bad acne as well. However thanks to the godsend that is roaccutane, I have been clear for the last five months!!:beer:

However, as your son is still fairly young I would suggest a trip to your GP and see if they can prescribe some antibiotics. Hopefully a course should sort it out if you don't leave it as long as I did to get help :mad: Another option is to have a look see on the acne forum, very helpful people there.

Good Luck!

Ted_Hutchinson

06-09-2008, 10:55 PM

Unfortunately vegetarians (like our family) can't take these. Flaxseed oil is usually cited as the vegetarian equivalent to fish oils, but whether they'd have as good an effect on the skin I don't know.Certainly for Heart conditions Omega-3 MUST be from fish oil (http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/omega-3-must-be-from-fish-oil.html)
There are many references that google will throw up showing flaxseed oil helps acne but a similar search on pubmed does not produce the research to back up those claims.

However this new research shows that vegetarians may be better able to convert linoleic acid to EPA than previously thought (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18721446) the fact that the PLCn-3PUFA:DALA ratio is approximately 22% is higher in vegetarians and meat-eaters than in fish-eaters indicates that there is greater conversion of ALA than in fish-eaters and may explain the smaller than expected differences in n-3 PUFA status between fish and non-fish consumers.

I prefer to use ground flaxseed as that also provides lignans and fibre but I also use 1.5g omega 3 daily plus krill oil capsules and also eat plenty of sardines in tomato sauce and other oily fish.

nibs

06-09-2008, 11:09 PM

Ted_Hutchinson

06-09-2008, 11:18 PM

Another fan of Roaccutane here. alters learning and memory, but not anxiety-like behavior, in the adult rat. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18760297Isotretinoin (13-cis-retinoic acid))These data indicate extensive, enduring memory effects from oral ISO treatment at doses likely to produce serum levels within the range typically used to treat acne in humans.

Recent reports indicate that depression occasionally occurs in patients using the acne drug Accutane, (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18445226)

Isotretinoin (13-cis retinoic acid) is an effective treatment for severe cystic or recalcitrant acne vulgaris; however, concerns have been raised regarding its potential association with depression and suicidal behavior. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18395669)

This is the first controlled study to find a statistically significant association between isotretinoin and depression. Because depression could have serious consequences, close monitoring of isotretinoin users is indicated. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18363422)

melancholly

06-09-2008, 11:27 PM

Another fan of Roaccutane here. My 16 yr old ds was desperate and after months of research he decided on Roaccutane - against the opinions of many. He was very down and fed up of people saying " its all part of growing up."
It isn't. After 4 months his skin was beautiful - completely clear and very healthy looking. The only side effect was very dry skin for which he applied double base moisturiser.
He did try over the counter creams first and then went onto antibiotics of which none worked. Roaccutane was his last option and it worked.
It is important to try other options first but do not despair if they dont work.
My ds caught his just as scarring was starting to develope,( because people were telling him not to be be so oversensitive and to accept it as part of being a teenager.) The scarring has now faded.
Hope this helps anyone who's going through the same thing as my ds once was.
glad it's working out - everything knows these drugs are strong and have side effects (such as depression), hence the need for a consultant to prescribe them. i think a lot of people underestimate the effect of long term bad acne on teenagers - i know that feeling of being told it's just something you go through. whatever the small percentage of increased risk of something like depression - feeling like you don't want to leave the house because of your skin can be much worse!

does anyone else remember the topical anti biotic yellow gel thing than made your skin go yellow?! man, i hated that one!

nibs

06-09-2008, 11:29 PM

As I said - after months of research, including advice from a specialist, he decided this option was right for him.
Maybe not for everyone, but for him it restored his confidence and brought him out of a very low time.
We also found that those who were fortunate to have never suffered from acne were the least understanding.

regan.lottie

06-09-2008, 11:34 PM

There are many arguments for and against roaccutane. It's a personal choice and you should not let others influence you. I was at a personal break down point. I had literally tried EVERYTHING and everyone, GP, parents, dermatologist agreed that I was old enough, 18 at the time, and that it wasn't likely that anything else would help.
You have to remember though, lots of people post about the negative side effects but those whose experiences are great wont necessarily go on about it so you only hear bad press, generally.
I wish all the best to anyone who is suffering, I know what you will be going through.

caketaker

07-09-2008, 12:41 AM

Ted_Hutchinson (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/member.html?u=3339) vbmenu_register("postmenu_13967529", true);

Your post made some interesting reading,thanks.I have just re-read my omega 3 pot and it says dont exceed stated dose,and me being aware it is possible to over-dose on vitamins,i just do as the pack states.
It gives me 1000mg per day.
Everything i have read recommends different daily doses.Saying that the 1000mg i am taking has still cleared up my skin.

Ted_Hutchinson

07-09-2008, 9:00 AM

I have just re-read my omega 3 pot and it says dont exceed stated dose,and me being aware it is possible to over-dose on vitamins,i just do as the pack states.While 1000mg of fish oil may have cleared up your acne 1000mg daily of fish oil is not a scientifically based recommendation.
The typical standard Pure Fish Oil - 1000mg, of which Omega 3 fatty acids represent 300mg (EPA is 180mg, DHA is 120mg). (http://www.healthspan.co.uk/cardio-care/omega-3-capsules-pure-fish-oil/ProductDetail-p354-c127.aspx) contains only 300mg of omega 3s. A tin of sardines in tomato sauce contains over 2g of omega 3 about the equivalent of 7 of your fish oil capsules. Go back to post 46 and follow the first link and read ALL the blogs on fish oil from Dr Davis and you will then understand better why the information on your fish oil capsules is scientifically flawed. There is absolutely no danger in eating a tin of sardines in tomato sauce or a portion of mackerel herring or other oily fish, indeed 4 portions a week produce measurable health benefits. You will only enjoy those health benefits if you either up your weekly oily fish consumption or take AN EQUIVALENT amount of omega 3 from fish oil capsules. That is why Dr Davis was suggesting 1800mg omega 3 daily (6 capsules every day) and in the light of the latest omega 3 findings is increasing that recommendation.

Ted_Hutchinson

07-09-2008, 9:15 AM

I had literally tried EVERYTHING .So you can confirm you raised your vitamin D3 status to over 50ng 125nmol/l. by taking 5000iu/daily for 3months at least AND you corrected your omega 3 status with at least 1.5g of EPA+DHA daily, AND your raised your magnesium intake AND followed a low carb paleo style diet avoiding milk products for at least 3 months. You are claiming you took all those measures to reduce your pro inflammatory status simultaneously and they had no effect

I simply doubt you did.

Therefore you should NOT put people off following a NATURAL SAFE solution BEFORE using drugs that are known to produce nasty side effects.

It is the case that people getting daily sun exposure and eating traditional diets rather than western foods DO NOT get acne at any stage of their development.

Therefore this condition is related to diet/lifestyle.

Eliminating the cause of a condition is better than simply treating the symptoms, though of course those with a financial interest or whose jobs depend on an ever increasing stream of new patients will want to put you off the safe natural approach and promote their own vested interests.

caketaker

07-09-2008, 12:22 PM

thanks for your help.it certainly is proof that the natural way works for me and i dont need to go to the doctors and use the main-stream treatments available.i hope others will look into the use of omega 3 to help them with acne.but as always some things work for some and not others.

melancholly

07-09-2008, 2:07 PM

but as always some things work for some and not others.
i think this is the most important thing - having a go at people for reporting what worked for them (clearly i don't mean you, btw) is really quite insensitive. this is a condition that really damages self confidence and self esteem and it is a real shame that an agenda is being pushed about this whilst trying to stamp down other opinions..... there is never one single cause for acne and people respond differently to different treatments.

caketaker

07-09-2008, 7:47 PM

indeed melancholly.my son started work at Mcdonalds a year ago.he soon started with the spots on the fore-head.it was caused by the grease on his fringe.his hair has grown now and is tied back and kept off his face and the spots have now gone.
i do think its trial and error as we are all different.

Ted_Hutchinson

07-09-2008, 8:16 PM

there is never one single cause for acne and people respond differently to different treatments.But the science shows that increases in dietary glycemic load may augment the biological activity of sex hormones and IGF-I, suggesting that these diets (high glycemic load) may aggravate potential factors involved in acne development (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18496812) So reducing the glycemic load reduces the excess hormonal activity and reduces the cause of the problem. (there are other benefits arising from a low carb diet but that is another whole thread)

There is good evidence to support low carb diets for acne. It is wrong that this evidence should be ignored simply because people can't make money out of it.
The effect of a low glycemic load diet on acne vulgaris and the fatty acid composition of skin surface triglycerides. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18178063)

If we know (or think we know) what contributing excess hormone that gives rise to the acne then eliminating or reducing one cause of excess hormonal activity is surely better (although less profitable) than continually treating the symptoms.

We know when people ensure their daily D3 requirement it met in full they have improved feelings of wellbeing. (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=506781) so even if it doesn't contribute to curing/reducing the acne there will be benefits. (http://sunlightandvitamind.com/)

We know also that research is showing that shifting this ratio-by increased consumption of fatty fish or fish oil supplements-may provide significant health benefits. Reductions in cardiovascular risk, depression, and rheumatoid arthritis symptoms have been correlated with omega-3 fatty acid intake, and there is increased interest in the use of omega-3 fatty acid supplementation for other psychiatric illnesses and prevention of Alzheimer's disease (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18454584) So even if the omega 3 doesn't reduce the acne it will not be money wasted.

We know also that a diet low in magnesium and high in sucrose causes oxidative stress (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17823763) so reducing the carbs and increasing magnesium (http://www.krispin.com/magnes.html)may reduce this stress.

beautyscientist

07-09-2008, 8:49 PM

Ted has obviously read a lot on this subject and I have to say that a lot of what he says makes a lot of sense. But we are all different and I think there may well be a lot of acne sufferers who won't get any benefit from simply changing their diets. I don't think it is fair to say that people who prescribe antibiotics and other treatments are simply exercising a vested interest. I can think of one very open minded and intelligent medical practitioner who was very keen to find diets that would help with acne, but he simply could not get the results. This was on very severe acne patients that were referred to him because nothing was working for them (if I give any more detail you will be able to identify him).

It may well be the case that our western life style has the effect of causing acne, but unfortunately we have to live with the world we have. I have become very impressed by the arguments linking diet and acne, but I think that medical acne treatments are going to be with us for a long time to come and will continue to be prescribed for a long time to come. And rightly so - not everyone can radically change their lifestyle.

Ted_Hutchinson

07-09-2008, 9:31 PM

there may well be a lot of acne sufferers who won't get any benefit from simply changing their diets. that MAY be true but you will not know until you try and as this is a cheap moneysaving solution then it should be the first choice solution and not the last.

I don't think it is fair to say that people who prescribe antibiotics and other treatments are simply exercising a vested interest. If you read The Diet Delusion (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Diet-Delusion-Challenging-Conventional-Disease/dp/0091891418) you may understand better how the research has been manipulated and how the evidence has been biased. I am not saying individual doctors or pharmacists are personally seeking to gain from promoting prescription remedies but for the most part their continuing education is funded by big pharma and big pharma will not be leading pharmacists/doctors into low cost solutions.

I can think of one very open minded and intelligent medical practitioner who was very keen to find diets that would help with acne, but he simply could not get the results. This was on very severe acne patients that were referred to him because nothing was working for them (if I give any more detail you will be able to identify him). I have no doubt you are right that simply altering diet alone without correcting Vit D3, Omega 3 Magnesium status will produce limited results. Think about it. What did early man/woman wear? What do people in hunter gatherer societies wear? What kind of Vitamin D status will wearing few clothes and leading an outdoor life create?

I will bet you any money you like that your open minded intelligent medical practitioner did NOT correct D3 status to the natural level our bodies strive to attain and maintain given regular full body sun exposure.

If he did try to correct Vit d status I will also bet he used the form of Vit D most readily available and thus he used the least effective form.

I also will say it's almost certain he would not have used an EFFECTIVE amount. Anyone who knows the first thing about D3 is that sunlight produces around 10,000iu in a relatively short time. Standard practice in the UK is to use 400-800iu and that does diddly squat.

Acne and the Sugar Connection (http://beauty.ivillage.com/skinbody/acne/0,,qjhj-p,00.html) I am not the only person who thinks an anti - inflammatory diet (that the role of D3, Omega 3, mangesium, all anti inflammatory agents) helps acne.

Treat Acne with a Low Glycemic Diet (http://ezinearticles.com/?Treat-Acne-With-a-Low-Glycemic-Diet&id=639462)

It may well be the case that our western life style has the effect of causing acne, but unfortunately we have to live with the world we have.True but I also live in the real world and can manage perfectly easily to live without refined carbs.

not everyone can radically change their lifestyle.I don't think having a cooked breakfast, lunch and evening meals without bread/pasta/rice/sugar/high fructose corn syrup and limiting beer/wine intake (http://blogg.passagen.se/dahlqvistannika/?anchor=my_lowcarb_dietary_programe_in) is a radical life style change. It's really very simple and very easy, even I can manage it.

I think the role of health professionals is to urge people to make sensible health improving changes to their diets/lifestyles, not simply to facilitate the eating of crap junk food and leading unhealthy lifestyles in the knowledge that the companies that urge the ever increasing consumption of hfcs, hydrogenated fats, etc. are linked to the companies producing the medicines to correct the inevitable consequences of the unhealthy foods/drinks their associated companies supply.

regan.lottie

07-09-2008, 11:12 PM

Therefore you should NOT put people off following a NATURAL SAFE solution BEFORE using drugs that are known to produce nasty side effects.

.

I would just like to point out that I had explicitly said that everyone is different and I said that they shouldn't rush onto it especially at a young age. So i would appreciate you not talking to me like that.

And I have been changing a lot to my diet before and after even considering roaccutane. I even gave up a lot of food and drinks. I was so depressed about everything I lost time of school etc.

I had grade 4 acne not just the random spot. I do know what I am talking about. But EVERYONE is different and sometimes a diet change just is not enough.

but :confused: what would I know, have a go if you wish, I am simply inputting what I have learnt through the past five years.

caketaker

08-09-2008, 12:19 AM

Oh dear

im sure this was just for people to say what has and hasn't worked for them,with a view to giving others idea's to try if they wish.
whether prescribed by the doctor or brought over the counter it remains the same, they will work for some and not others.
my omega 3 cure may not suit others simply because they cant swallow pills.
therefore any other suggestions are more than welcome

ailuro2

08-09-2008, 7:01 AM

Clean twice a day with a suitable antibacterial cleanser, pat skin dry, don't rub it, add oxy10 or oxy5 then moisturise with a light moisturiser.

Done twice a day this can help.

I'm 38 and still have spots, the only 2 thing to have helped is oxy10 (from chemist only) and stopping working in an environment where my hands were usually dirty, and then touching my face without realising, such as wiping sweat away or scratching an itch.

melancholly

08-09-2008, 9:50 AM

on the subject of face touching (which i do more than most because i can feel the little evil things developing!), someone did recommend wearing a hairband in bed as that prevents long hair touching your face and making ti more greasy. i've tried 3/4 bands, but i can't find one that stays on all night (maybe i just move around more than most!). i'm guessing that washing pillows regularly also helps in the same way.

i think the most important thing is that people have found things that have worked for them and that has made a huge difference to their lives. i don't see why it matters what choice they've made - they have to live with their decisions and everyone seems very happy with that apart from one poster!

for me, dianette made things much better and there are a lot of side effects of that, particularly when you're young. but it also has other benefits - no more 10 day periods and the like! it's harder for boys as the pill isn't an option. some foods make mine worse, but no amount of exclusions have helped - i've even seen a kinesiologist to try an 'alternative' approach! i can see that acne badly affects people on my dad's side of the family, who live in all parts of the world (from the far east through to europe), on different diets. i'm not as bad as my dad's cousin, but i'm sure that genetics is a big factor in my family (i hope i pass my mum's 'good skin' genes on!)

glowgirl

08-09-2008, 10:20 AM

I can highly recommend Freederm products, I have oily skin which still gets regular spots (I am 40) and use a thin layer of freederm gel every night and I have never had such clear skin since I was about 10. My daughter who is 13 has just started getting oily teenage skin she had started to get a few spots so I started her cleansing with Freederm lotion every am and pm and using nivea young oil free moisturiser in the mornings only, she now has clear oil free skin and she wears make up every day with no adverse effect. Diet plays a large part in both of our skins, if my daughter dosnt eat fruit every day her skin gets considerably worse and if I pig out on chocolate you can tell over the next few days by my skin.

Ted_Hutchinson

08-09-2008, 3:42 PM

Why do you doubt a previously mentioned medical practitioner who didn't get the results that he hoped?Simply because I know that D3 the effective form of Vitamin D is NOT available for prescription in the UK. I accept it is possible that the doctor your refer to went to the trouble of importing D3 and supplied it directly to his patients, I am aware of a couple of UK doctors who do just that, but they are the exception and not typical of most doctors. If the doctor you refer to did indeed not only correct Vitamin D3 status by giving his patients around 5000iu/daily and then test 25(OH)D status to ensure each had attained 125nmol/l TOGETHER WITH with optimising Omega 3 status with at least 1.5g EPA+ DHA AND improving magnesium status he would have improved the natural anti inflammatory status and together with the change of diet that lowers glycemic load and thus reduces excess hormone levels this should have shown some improvement.

The fact he reported that diet changes did not show the improvement he expected leads me to conclude he probably failed to improve the natural anti inflammatory status at the same time as reducing pro inflammatory inputs.

My guess is he simply looked at diet without considering that early man (and those cultures that are acne free) live outdoors, eat organic foods, and eat mostly fresh uncooked foods If you catch your fish/game from the wild it will have a higher omega 3 content. Magnesium is water soluble so cooking greens allows the magnesium to dissolve and be washed away in the cooking liquor. So if you want to replicate the natural situation of early man you have to supplement with all 3 at effective levels. D3 Omega 3 and Magnesium as well as changing to a low carb diet.

If you know any UK doctor who actually does this then please PM me if you don't want to post his name online. I would be very pleased to hear that such a sensible doctor exists.

I am about to buy a book called Bad Science. I'm glad about that and confident that you will find absolutely nothing in it that doubts any of the science you will find in the links I provide.
Too many miracle cures and scientific evidence charts are cited by people who don't know what they are talking about nowadays.
Exactly my point and one made over and over again by Taubes in his book The diet delusion. (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Diet-Delusion-Challenging-Conventional-Disease/dp/0091891418) we really do have to ensure that the medical dogma churned out by official medical information services is evidence based and represents the latest scientific findings.

Currently official information on D3, Omega 3, Magnesium, together with the official reluctance to accept that a low carb diet is not only healthy but the one our bodies evolved to work best on, makes most "official" medical advice laughable. I'd be thoroughly ashamed if I worked for the health service and had to spout the out of date rubbish most of them churn out as if it were gospel.

Got Acne Go Sunbathing (http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/20470)

Here is the science paper relating to the above press release. (http://www.jci.org/articles/view/30142) for those who find these papers difficult the key sentence IMO is this vitamin D3 signaling is important to microbial recognition and the antimicrobial response during injury. Activated vitamin D3 generated in the healing process initiates an antimicrobial response and increased sensitivity to microbial challenge.

This is why I am so convinced that you MUST have sufficient D3 in your skin to provide the signal that stimulates your own immune response. How can you expect your body to respond to challenge if you deprive it of the means to signal up the defence mechanisms.

Ted_Hutchinson

08-09-2008, 10:55 PM

I recently read that it is a myth that direct sunlight makes acne better. But what matters is the scientific evidence and whether or not there is a good logical reason for the observations you are recording.
If we know that acne is a condition that involves inflammation is it not simply common sense to ensure our NATURAL ANTI INFLAMMATORY status is attained and maintained. That is what using an effective amount of D3, omega 3 and magnesium will do. Reducing the refined carbs will reduce the pro inflammatory cytokines.

If we know that oral antibiotics help acne isn't is simply common sense to suggest that the levels of the NATURAL ANTIBIOTIC our bodies strive to attain and maintain given full body exposure to sunshine are those that will best enable our body to fight infection?

We know perfectly well what level of D3 enables breast milk to flow replete with Vitamin D, (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18290720)
We know the level at which the bodies daily needs are met in full and at which level surplus D3 begins to be stored for winter use. (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=17218096)
We just have to apply that knowledge to see the result.

You seem to mention vitamin D a lot in your posts as cures. Are you a scientist or a doctor? Absolutely not. I have a chronic inflammatory condition and it was getting progressively worse and there was nothing that could be done about it. Being disabled , in constant pain and unable to stand or walk for long was driving me crazy and I needed to find out what could possibly be done to prevent further deterioration. Understanding that inflammation was causing the pain and the damage to nerves gave the insight to search for information on natural anti inflammatories. I started with Omega 3 and was known as the omega 3 man for a long time but that alone did not make a huge difference. Another poster here put me onto Vitamin D and that made a huge difference, and I think the fact that the average UK adult has at best only half the natural amount of D3 is the cause of most of our chronic health conditions. I've recently learnt more about magnesium but it was low carbing via Gary Taubes. (http://webcast.berkeley.edu/event_details.php?webcastid=21216) that has made the biggest difference to my health. Understanding that fat cells are actually pro inflammatory and reducing their number/size has made a huge difference to my pain levels and mobility problems. Just wish I'd been a bit smarter a lot earlier.

I think there is a genetic link to acne too.My mother had it when she was
younger although my elder sister has never suffered from it.Maybe true but because you have a genetic predisposition does not necessarily mean you will develop that condition. There are some risk factors you can do something about and some you can't. The answer is to reduce those risk factors that you can. So reducing the pro inflammatory agents, increasing the anti inflammatory agents is common sense.

When you understand D3 is a NATURAL ANTIBIOTIC then it makes sense to maximise the natural level of this antibiotic.

Use of Vitamin D in clinical practice (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18377099) is a good place to start.

melancholly

08-09-2008, 11:13 PM

it's odd - Ted, you make a lot of posts about returning to the diet of early man (when life expectancy was much shorter so it can't all have been good), but one HUGE aspect of that early lifestyle was far more physical activity.... i find it very bizarre that you actively push for a diet from that era and yet also campain against people taking exercise. i can't quite understand the contradiction.

fwiw Atomised, Ted is neither a doctor or a scientist and NO advice on any part of MSE should be taken as medical advice - things are always specific to individuals and it is very dangerous for the site for medical advice to be offered.

Ted_Hutchinson

08-09-2008, 11:30 PM

it's odd - Ted, you make a lot of posts about returning to the diet of early man (when life expectancy was much shorter so it can't all have been good) Have a read about what HERODOTUS (http://books.google.com/books?id=Jo0ne4j3o2sC&pg=PA10&lpg=PA10&dq=herodotus+low+carbohydrate&source=web&ots=zHyD_lJSLD&sig=1s_NySTXHvmenG9AwwcuenTT0H8&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPA11,M1) Reported was common knowledge in the fifth century BC?

yet also campain against people taking exercise. i can't quite understand the contradiction That is because you never read my posts properly. You always allow your own prejudice to bias your understanding of what I actually write. Find me one post where I have suggested that exercise is bad for you.
You won't because I always say that exercise is good for the brain and good for your heart. What exercise will not do in the long run is to help you lose weight. The reasons for this are explained by Taubes Here We can't work it out
We all know exercise helps you lose weight. But does it? There is almost no scientific evidence to support the orthodoxy. Indeed, it could even do the exact opposite... Gary Taubes weighs up the facts and takes a controversial look at why the gym is not going to fix it (http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2007/oct/28/healthandwellbeing.features1)

for medical advice to be offered.But it is most important that the latest scientific findings are made known to the public so they are kept informed as to the current state of scientific knowledge. Providing INFORMATION on which people can make informed decisions helps them better understand the issues underlying their health problems.

We must NOT let people whose mission in life appears to be to cause as much pain and suffering as possible demand informative threads are deleted. Providing people can see the actual research from which the INFORMATION (as distinct from ADVICE) that I supply is coming from they can make their own minds up about whether or not that information is relevant to their condition.

misscomickat

08-09-2008, 11:36 PM

It was a complete myth for me that sunlight improves acne. Nothing nothing NOTHING improved mine until I got Roaccutane. Then it came back a bit, but not as bad as before. Then I went on Dianette, and my skin cleared up. I came off the pill not long ago, and my skin is getting bad again.

If you have fully blown acne, not just the odd spot, it is hormonal and no amount of creams will make a difference.

Neon Eye

08-09-2008, 11:58 PM

I will tell my brother about these. His having an acne problem for a long time. Hope this helps.

Ted_Hutchinson

09-09-2008, 9:01 AM

It was a complete myth for me that sunlight improves acne. This is how much full body sun exposure you require. (http://www.thevitamindcure.com/calculator) BBC 5 DAY FORECAST enables you to find the UV index for your postcode (http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml) You have also to understand that it takes TIME to raise status. It is far better to spend a short time over a long period getting regular sun exposure than to spend a few days under tropical sunlight trying to do the same. Although your skin makes lots of D3 very quickly it needs time to absorb it. Very strong sunlight simply processes the D3 on into substances the body doesn't use and therefore is of no value and you risk getting burnt.

So several short full body sessions around midday regularly 3-4 times a week totalling the time shown on the calculator from April to the end of September are required. Is that really what you did?

but as I hope I have made clear there are several other natural anti inflammatory agents that those lliving/eating in the way our bodies evolved to function with would have available. So correcting OMEGA 3 status AND magnesium status AND eating a low carb diet so ALL these anti inflammatory actions are applied at the SAME TIME is the main thrust of my post. Call it the kitchen sink approach (http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2008/08/kitchen-sink-approach-for-lpa.html) Use ALL the natural means possible AT THE SAME TIME and you stand a far better chance of success. If this approach is more successful for dealing with LP(a) it is logical it will have the same impact on acne.

it is hormonal and no amount of creams will make a difference.How can you expect to correct hormonal imbalance if you keep eating those foods that raise excess hormonal activity?

How can you expect your body to make the correct hormones in the correct amounts if you deprive them of one of the main hormone regulating mechanisms?

Analysis of vitamin D and biochemical endocrine PCOS features revealed a significant correlation only between 25-OH-VD and sex hormone-binding globulin as well as the free androgen index. In conclusion, in PCOS women, low 25-OH-VD levels are associated with obesity and insulin resistance (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17177140)

Ted_Hutchinson

09-09-2008, 9:18 AM

It might be a natural antibiotic but sometimes humans need extra help to fight infections.But the need for EXTRA antibiotic should only occur AFTER bodies have attained OPTIMAL vitamin D status. The average UK adult has at best only half the amount of D3 that is natural and most of the time we have only one third of the correct amount. If you drive your car with only one third of the correct tyre/fluid levels you get worse performance. If you want better performance, but for muscle, brain and immune function you need to correct current insufficiency states.

I don't believe that exercise has no effect on weight loss. Surely the more you move, the more calories you will burn up?Well if increasing exercise is so effective where are the studies that show doubling the amount of exercise leads to long term substantial weight loss?

Why are you so quick to believe the latest scientific findings? What if they are wrong?I am not quick. I have been doing this for years and years. It's because I focus only on a few issues I am able to keep up with the latest research in those topics.

People are free to choose their own treatments. If Roaccutane or Dianette works -why not use them?Because it is silly to use products that may cause serious side effects when you can eliminate the cause of the problem with cheap, safe, natural modifications to your diet and lifestyle. As these diet/lifestyle modifications also have a beneficial effect on all aspects of your health you are in a win win situation. Being a slave to big pharma for the rest of you live is fine for them but it leads to a dependancy culture.

Having a healthy diet is always a good idea but you come across as someone who has ALL the answers for everyone. [/QUOTE]But the underlying problems are the same for everyone.
Show me people in the UK who are not low in vitamin d3
Show me the evidence people consume reasonable amount of omega 3 each week.
Provide the evidence that people generally have adequate levels of magnesium.

Now we know that low carb eating leads to improved health markers and lower weight why can't the health professionals provide us with accurate up to date science based advice?

aliasojo

09-09-2008, 10:22 AM

I haven't read all of this thread but it rang a bell with me as my son had a bad time with acne. It affected his confidence to the point where he would truant sometimes.

Anyway, he tried EVERYTHING for years, including prescription drugs which did help a bit but not completely.

He read online somewhere one day that green veg were a source of something or other so he started eating steamed broccoli every day. We got so sick of it at every dinner time that we couldn't face it anymore but still made it for him. He was convinced it was helping him. His face did seem a bit better but I kind poo poohed the idea and thought it was coincidence.

He stopped eating it for a while and his face flared up again and got better when he restarted eating it again.

I now completely accept that eating broccoli every day has (and still is) helped him.

I dont know why. Although research has since discovered that broccoli can help men avoid prostate cancer problems so I suppose it's not too much of a leap to believe it could help against the humble plook.

It's very boring making broccoli almost every day for 2 years on the trot though. :rolleyes:

misscomickat

09-09-2008, 10:25 AM

You're meant to go naked outside every day at lunch time? It's not really practical is it?

I had horrible acne in my teens. I spent the summer working in Spain and was outside in the sun quite a bit. Didn't make the slightest bit of difference.

Ted_Hutchinson

09-09-2008, 10:57 AM

You're meant to go naked outside every day at lunch time? It's not really practical is it? No that is why the amount of Vit d3 needed to raise status to over 50ng 125nmol/l has to be so high. We get around 2000iu/daily from all sources at the moment.
Each 100iu/daily/d3 extra raises status by 2.5nmol/l (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18525006)therefore it's just simple maths to work out how much you need.
to reach 125nmol/l from the current level of 50nmol/l requires a further 75nmol/l raise and that on average takes 3000iu, going a little above that ensures everyone is on the safe side.
I had horrible acne in my teens. I spent the summer working in Spain and was outside in the sun quite a bit. Didn't make the slightest bit of difference.But as I have pointed out a skin that has not become acclimatised to strong sunlight will not be as efficient as a skin that has become hardened to it. If you didn't raise your omega 3/vitd/magnesium status prior to going out to Spain your skin would not have it's natural means of photoprotection, and as I have already pointed out you may need to use more that one approach to succeed.

Just because you used one approach once does not invalidate the theory.

If you have more than one problem on your car/pc fixing just one of those problems may still leave you with a dud pc/car.

Ted_Hutchinson

09-09-2008, 11:01 AM

It's very boring making broccoli almost every day for 2 years on the trot though. :rolleyes:Maybe if he had read this article he would have had a greater source of veggies (http://ezinearticles.com/?Acne-Cleaning---7-Vegetables-You-Must-Eat&id=518301) to try.

However a pubmed search for broccoli acne doesn't throw up anything interesting. But that's not to say that increasing low carb veggies isn't going to help the problem. It will reduce the pro inflammatory inputs and so be some help. But why not go the whole hog and improve your natural anti inflammatory status at the same time.

For those who want an update on Vitamin D and the skin: an ancient friend, revisited (http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/118495648/HTMLSTART)The full text of this on online and reasonably accessible. If you have any problems PM me.

Penny-Pincher!!

09-09-2008, 11:48 AM

My DD is 13 and she has spots/acne/blackheads for about a year. They just appeared overnight and she was horrified. She eats well and drinks loads of water etc. We tried EVERYTHING and they would ease a little then get bad again especially on her forehead, nose and chin.

About 4 months ago I bought her the new Freederm cream advertised on TV and its brilliant! You buy over the counter at a chemist and it is around £8 but this has lasted and she needs another tube. She washes her face twice a day then dabs any spots etc and it literally dries them out. Her face is almost clear now and the only time it flares a little is when its the wrong time of the month.

I would definitely recomend it and so would DD.

PP
xx

aliasojo

09-09-2008, 11:54 AM

He ate all of those anyway Ted. It's just that the broccoli was much more intensive iyswim.

pennyocs

09-09-2008, 12:13 PM

i have had spots not severe but enough to stop me wanting to go out and to get bullied about when at school since i was 12 im now 36 and have tried hundreds of different washes,creams,masks from the doctor nothing worked until i finally gave up trying.
i started to use cidal soap bar and superdrug tea tree wash and since then about 5 years ago my skin has been almost clear. i think that i gave into the fact my skin was never going to be perfect actually helped it clear,stress is a big factor.

beautyscientist

09-09-2008, 2:34 PM

The active ingredient in Freederm is Vitamin D3. Ted has referred to this a dietary suplement. I have a feeling Ted will be along in a minute......

I am assuming from the way it is marketed and the claims it makes that Freederm is a proper licensed pharmaceutical and therefore has been clinically tested. If someone has a pack and could look at it, there should be a number preceded with PL on it somewhere.

Incidentally I noticed that someone was querying Ted's credentials. For what it is worth I am a scientist and I have worked on acne products - but do remember this is an internet forum and I could claim to be the Caliph of Bagdad if I wanted.

Ted_Hutchinson

09-09-2008, 3:06 PM

The active ingredient in Freederm is Vitamin D3. While you can buy a D3 ointment it isn't sold as Freederm. As far as I am aware the active ingredient in Freederm is Nicotinamide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotinamide) 4% w/w

Ted has referred to this a dietary suplement.Apart from sun exposure (apart from this year) supplements are the most effective way of raising D3 status. You could of course invest in a sunbed with high UVB output tubes but when you can get adequate D3 for around 4p daily it's not really worth the time or hassle. When you raise your D3 status to optimal it does affect your skin. Most people find having optimal D3 status not only enables them to tan faster in the summer (I had a good tan by the end of April this year) but also improves photoprotection (I don't ever need to use sunscreens (not that we had enough strong sun this year to cause concern)

beautyscientist

09-09-2008, 3:42 PM

Whoops! Quite right Ted. I meant vitamin B3, but even that wasn't quite right. Apologies to everyone. I should have checked before posting.

ailuro2

09-09-2008, 7:29 PM

stilernin

09-09-2008, 7:47 PM

I don't think that Hibiscrub has been mentioned here yet. It's actually the handwash that is used in hospitals (well it was 7 years ago) and can be bought in chemists. Only a tiny amount is needed for each wash and a bottle lasted our family for months.

It was recommended by my GP years ago and worked pretty well.

moneysaving pharmacist

10-09-2008, 1:49 PM

misscomickat

10-09-2008, 2:42 PM

I just did an aspirin mask as recommended by acne.org. My skin feels lovely and soft and the redness has gone down immediately. I'd recommend so far! Will definitely be doing again!

beautyscientist

10-09-2008, 2:53 PM

Freederm is a pharmaceutical product, and does have a PL. This means that it has been manufactured to certain standards - this does not necessarily apply to dietary supplements.

Thanks for that MSP, good point about the standards that apply to dietary supplements. Not only that, but Freederm's claims will have been assessed against the evidence by the MHRA. I have worked on getting things through that MHRA and can confirm that they are very tough and really expect to see proof of efficacy.

beautyqueen88

10-09-2008, 3:16 PM

i used to use something called panoxyl aquagel it comes it 3 differant strenghts i think i had number 5 which is the strongest; you get it over the counter at the chemist its really good stuff i suffered with spots from been around 12 aswell and put up with it for far too long it really damaged my confidence.
the pharmasist will reccomend which strenght to go far. clearasil was a complte waste of time for me i tried just about everything before i finally found that cream.
and if it gets really bad take him to the doctors they will give him tablets to clear his skin up i always regret my mum never takeing me when i first got spots.

Ted_Hutchinson

10-09-2008, 6:55 PM

panoxyl aquagel contains Benzoyl peroxide and this works as an anti bacterial agent.

Nicotinamide the active ingredient of Freederm works as an anti-inflammatory agent.

Now I am sure you are all aware that Vitamin D3 works not only as an antibacterial agent but also as an anti inflammatory agent in addition it also has anti microbial properties. It costs around 4p daily (https://secure.bio-tech-pharm.com/detail.aspx?product_id=18&cat_id=2&subcat_id=0) so must be the most moneysaving, particularly when you take into account the benecial side effects. (http://www.grassrootshealth.org/_download/GrantGrassrootsHealth.pdf)
This link leads to slides from a series of presentations summarising the most recent Vit d research in relation to Reducing the Burden of Disease Through Adequate Intake of Vitamin D3. The slides don't come with the audio explanation but are fairly self explanatory but if anyone needs further explanation then PM me as I'm familiar with all this material.