help, DVLA impounded car, can i appeal?

[redpetunia]

Hi,

Would appreciate any advice on the below.

I've just received a letter (Friday) from DVLA to say that they have impounded my vehicle due to non payment of tax.

I did not receive a notification letter from the DVLA that tax was due. Normally I rely on receiving this paperwork in order to gather together the various bits of paperwork that I need and trotting off to the post office to renew my disc.

Can I appeal this in any way if I did not receive the standard DVLA letter?

From memory my tax expired at end of June - the car was seized 1st July so they were obviously lying in wait for it.

Is there any standard procedure that they should be following before taking a vehicle i.e. a second letter or notification that the vehicle will be seized if tax not paid?

I am absolutely furious about this as I not a tax dodger. The car is MOT'd, insured and has valid parking permit. I feel very victimised as there has been no opportunity for me to be the model citizen that I am.

Now it will cost me nearly £400 to get the car released.

Apparently it would have been half that if I had got the car today - but as the letter only came today, and was received by me on my return from work that was impossible. the fees increase as I now have to pay for storage over the weekend while they are not open.

This does not feel like a very fair system and there must be a way around it.


Please help.

Thanks

RP.

[Horace]

Well, you know when your car tax expires so to say that you didn't get notification of its renewal is odd. Have you moved house and not told them? Anyway, you can always renew your car tax online - I do and never have a problem.

Personally, I think it is perfectly ok for the DVLA to sieze untaxed cars, they should do it more often:D

The DVLA don't lie in wait for people, it could be that you left your car on a public highway and it was spotted by either a traffic warden or the police who reported it to the DVLA.

Be thankful, that you weren't stopped by the police whilst driving it because they would have siezed your car immediately (they have this lovely number plate recognition system that tells them that your car has no tax, MOT or insurance).

[redpetunia]

my car does have an MOT and insurance and it is likely that the tax only just ran out. i don't know exacly when it was, that date is just a result of racking my brain to try to remember.

but that's not the point.

i rely on that letter from the DVLA to let me know my tax is due (as I;m sure do most people in this country). I didn't even know paying online was an option.

What I want to know is if they can just seize your car without any notification?

And what right they then have to charge you on a daily basis when a letter only arrives 4 days later? Surely there must be a minimum notification period to enable this? It seems to me to be unlawful to do otherwise.

I'm sure you'll agree that a fee of nearly £400 is beyond excessive. This is no way to treat law abiding citizens.

[dollydoodah]

my car does have an MOT and insurance and it is likely that the tax only just ran out. i don't know exacly when it was, that date is just a result of racking my brain to try to remember.

but that's not the point.

i rely on that letter from the DVLA to let me know my tax is due (as I;m sure do most people in this country). I didn't even know paying online was an option.

What I want to know is if they can just seize your car without any notification?

And what right they then have to charge you on a daily basis when a letter only arrives 4 days later? Surely there must be a minimum notification period to enable this? It seems to me to be unlawful to do otherwise.

I'm sure you'll agree that a fee of nearly £400 is beyond excessive. This is no way to treat law abiding citizens.

But you weren't a law abiding citizen. Having a valid tax disc is a legal requirement if you want to drive a car.

And how did you not know that your car had been impounded before you got the letter? When they impounded one near me for out of date tax, they clamped it for a week with a bigger sticker on before towing it away.

[Mikeyorks]

Your post doesn't make sense.

Why would you need a letter to tell you the car was impounded? Isn't the fact it is missing the first sign something is not right?

And a letter received by you 4th July, for tax you allege only expired 4 days ago ..... gives a credit for administrative haste to DVLA that they certainly don't deserve. There is no way they can act that quickly.

If it's been impounded and the tax didn't expire until 30th June ....... then it hasn't been impounded because it's not taxed. And if it's been impounded because it's untaxed ... then the tax did not expire 30th June (at least not 30th June 2008).

[olly300]

OP I've found this story: http://www.dvla.gov.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/archive2006/20061107_38.aspx

Yes the DVLA can seize your car without notification.

In addition even if the DVLA don't send you the notification it's legally your duty as the car owner to ensure your vehicle is taxed, MOTed and insured so stating you didn't receive the letter is not going to be considered a reasonable excuse. Even being out of the country is not a reasonable excuse as you should have renewed it earlier or got someone else to do it for you.

And your not law abiding otherwise you wouldn't have had your car seized.

[PsychoPrincess]

Stating the obvious I know, but the expiration date is in big numbers on the tax disk. You can see it every time you walk past your car.

[mymatebob]

Hi,

Would appreciate any advice on the below.

I've just received a letter (Friday) from DVLA to say that they have impounded my vehicle due to non payment of tax.

I did not receive a notification letter from the DVLA that tax was due. Normally I rely on receiving this paperwork in order to gather together the various bits of paperwork that I need and trotting off to the post office to renew my disc.

Can I appeal this in any way if I did not receive the standard DVLA letter? NO

From memory my tax expired at end of June - the car was seized 1st July so they were obviously lying in wait for it. I very much doubt it

Is there any standard procedure that they should be following before taking a vehicle i.e. a second letter or notification that the vehicle will be seized if tax not paid? Often vehicle is clamped first with a big notice regarding unpaid tax on the windscreen

I am absolutely furious about this as I not a tax dodger. The car is MOT'd, insured and has valid parking permit. I feel very victimised as there has been no opportunity for me to be the model citizen that I am. You are not being victimised you just missed a deadline

Now it will cost me nearly £400 to get the car released.

Apparently it would have been half that if I had got the car today - but as the letter only came today, and was received by me on my return from work that was impossible. the fees increase as I now have to pay for storage over the weekend while they are not open. If this is the first letter you have had from the DVLA then you may be able to appeal a lower fee - possibly

This does not feel like a very fair system and there must be a way around it.
In what way is it not fair?


Please help.

Thanks

RP.

I know you will not want to hear why iIand other posters have said but I doubt very much if the tax ran out on Monday all this can have happened by Friday.

For next year you may want to put a reminder in your diary, so that you remember without the state having to remind you

[redpetunia]

thanks for your replies.

perhaps i haven't made myself clear.

I do not use my car everyday. It is parked in a busy street so it is not right in front of my house. therefore it is easy not to notice it. I have no idea if there was any sticker on it. It would be useful to know if they have to sticker it for a determined period of time before they can impound it. Does anybody know?

my first knowledge that the car was gone was a letter that i received today - 4th July - but dated 1st July so I presume they took the car then.

I have been doing some research since posting this and apparently they have automatic number plate recognition cameras mounted on vans and they drive them around looking for untaxed vehicles so it is very possible for them to have seized my car immediately after the tax expired.

i take your point that having a taxed vehicle is the lawful thing to do but there has to be a better and fairer system than this. Or some form of process for both the DVLA and citizens to follow.

I'm afraid that it feels like a money grabbing exercise on the part of the DVLA - i do not belive that a charge of nearly £400 is a fair and just fine for a delay (of just a few days) to getting a car retaxed.

And that's why i'd like help on whether i can fight this is any way.

[noh]

Go here
http://www.vehiclelicence.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/

Select Vehicle Enquiry on the left hand side enter the reg number and make of your car.
The information returned will tell you when the Road Tax was due. (Date of liability)

Nigel

[PsychoPrincess]

i take your point that having a taxed vehicle is the lawful thing to do but there has to be a better and fairer system than this. Or some form of process for both the DVLA and citizens to follow.

I'm afraid that it feels like a money grabbing exercise on the part of the DVLA - i do not belive that a charge of nearly £400 is a fair and just fine for a delay (of just a few days) to getting a car retaxed.

And that's why i'd like help on whether i can fight this is any way.

There isn't really anything to fight. You say that there should be some form of process for the DVLA and citizens to follow. There is:

You get a car, it must be taxed.
As a car owner you are responsible for making sure the tax is always up to date.
If you are unsure, the expiration date of the tax disk is written on it in quite large numbers.
The process is that before the tax runs out you must buy a new disk.
The DVLA must keep a check on this and remove any cars that are untaxed.

That is the process. It is pretty clear and easy to follow. I know it's annoying to encounter an unexpected bill, but you really don'y have a valid argument.

[mymatebob]

Deleted as it referred to a post which was removed

[PsychoPrincess]

Deleted as it referred to a post which was removed

[mommyme]

i rely on that letter from the DVLA to let me know my tax is due (as I;m sure do most people in this country). I didn't even know paying online was an option.

Try looking at your tax disk next time if your unsure. It isnt difficult to remember if you taxed your car for 6 months or a year (i have a shocking memory but i manage this) so if you tax it in the summer for a year, you dont need to look at it until the next summer (I always have my car taxed around xmas so i can have it as an xmas pressie lol) dont rely on the DVLA - you dont rely on anyone sending you a letter to check your oil etc so i cant really see how you can say its the DVLA's fault that they never told you that YOU needed to tax YOUR car. I dont think the DVLA has done anything wrong. Granted it was a genuine mistake but how long would it of taken you to notice you was driving without tax - which also invalidates your insurance so technically you was an uninsured driver too as all insurance policies say your car must be M.O.T'd and Taxed.

[Horace]

You have said yourself it was parked on a public highway. Untaxed vehicles can be towed away. Just think it is also likely that someone saw it and reported it to the council who then arranged to tow it away and then notified the DVLA.

I am sorry but I do not believe that you were unaware that you could renew your tax disk online, the DVLA have been running adverts on the TV for at least two years advising people as to what can happen to their untaxed car and saying that they can renew online.

I never wait for my renewal notice, I know when my tax is due to expire, I just hop online and key in the details from my V5 (my registration document) and renew that way, its ever so easy and they just post the disk to you.

You could try and appeal but I don't think you have a leg to stand on.

[jonnyb]

you decide.:p

why do some people insist on not taking responsibility for their actions (or lack of actions, in this case).

lucky it has not already been crushed.

[AndysDad]

So when did the tax run out ?.... as I like the other posters don't reckon it was on the 30th June.

[Older but not wiser]

Welcome to the real world redpetunia.

[NewFoundGlory]

I am sorry but I do not believe that you were unaware that you could renew your tax disk online, the DVLA have been running adverts on the TV for at least two years advising people as to what can happen to their untaxed car and saying that they can renew online.



Also, if, as you say, you rely on the reminder letters...I'm pretty sure it states on these that you can renew online also.

I know it is unfortunate but the fact that you have to pay more because the impound is not open over the weekend is not something you are going to be able to appeal because, after all, it is your fault that it is in the impound in the first place.

[Middlers]

As already said there is no way your vehicle would have been impounded the day after you tax ran out. You are usually given 14 days grace but should not rely on this. It would be interesting if you could truthfully post when the tax ran out once you have collected the car tomorrow. I agree that £400 is alot of money but that will cover wages, fuel, use of recovery vehicles etc of the garage involved with towing your car away. These fees are set by government and not the garage. The standard fee for having your car recovered is £105 plus £12 per day storage. I would suggest the remainder of your £400 covers the back tax you owe and then it would more likely have run out in 2007 not 2008. Normally a notice would have been put on your car and then a week later it would be removed. If you didn't notice your out of date disc you probably wouldn't have seen the notice either. I think the DVLA have done their job well and carried out the 'threats' made in their commercials. Well done.

[callow]

My ex partner didn't renew his car tax on time (through laziness), they sent him a letter a week later and a £80 pound fine. He paid the car tax, and eventually paid the fine.

He doesn't drive his car much and it was parked in private grounds. I can't believe your car was seized after one day.

[LillyDinero]

I think the police and DVLA are doing a clampdown on this. People are driving without tax way too much. They may well 'lay in wait' in some circumstances but if you haven't paid then it's on the road illegally.

I don't think you will be able to contest it, even if you did genuinely forget there are so many people who try it on its a case of 'been there, heard that'.

I know someone who declared their vehicle as SORN as they knew they couldn't afford their tax in time for the end of the moneth. It was only SORN for 1 week as then they got paid, but they weren't taking any chances!!!

[Crabman]

Moved to the Motoring Board :)

Hi, Martin’s asked me to post this in these circumstances: I’ve asked Board Guides to move threads if they’ll receive a better response elsewhere(please see this rule (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=1009335#post1009335)) so this post/thread has been moved to another board, where it should get more replies. If you have any questions about this policy please email abuse@moneysavingexpert.com (abuse@moneysavingexpert.com).

[Keith]

Just to add another view on this scenario.

I came out of work in 2006, walked to where I parked my motorbike to find it missing, I did the usual phones the Mrs, and then walked to a pub so she could collect me (I presumed it stolen, so would report it locally).

An hour and half later she arrives, she drives home another hour, and we arrive at local police station. I report the bike stolen, where I'm told the DVLA have taken it for being untaxed!

The bike was taxed for another 6 months and removed due to an incorrect keying of the duration of the disc by the operator at DVLA. No notice was given, no compensation sought due to human error.

I know from those few days researching it, the DVLA contractor charge a removal fee, daily storage (including the weekend when closed) and back tax.

OP - even if you don't see your car, you should mark the date in your diary, outlook, calendar, etc so that you don't forget when your tax is due, just like your mot & insurance renewals

[vikingaero]

OP did your tax run out a the end of June or the end of May? Big difference.

My sister had her car taken by the DVLA because she forgot to tax it. She works as an intensive care nurse and was asked to do overtime for 3 months in a row and simply forgot. She would go to work after 16 hour shifts, zombie home, eat and sleep. She realised it was her fault and paid up.

[roddydogs]

Im sure we all know places where you can find lots of untaxed cars-could it be they only impound cars that have some value?.
Lots of Pr exercises going on about ANPR, it aint the Bees Knees its made out to be, better than nothing, granted., but quite easily by passed if u know how.(No, im not explaining how to!)

[Penny-Pincher!!]

If you have no valid car tax, then the MOT and Tax are both void, so you may also get hit for this.

[pinkpig08]

You can appeal for sure since you haven't got any information regarding the due of your tax. It is the duty of the authorities to inform us what to do on time or else it is their fault.

=====================
Jack
Car Auctions (http://www.gov-auctions.org)

Is it time for me to go to the toilet? Oops, thats the authorities buying me a new pair of trousers :p

[BillTrac]

My daughter had her car clamped recently. She had been using her partners car, and stupidly forgot to re-tax hers.

Cost her £200(£80 fine and £120 surety)

She got it taxed same day, paid £200. Took tax disc to local DVLA to recoup £120 and they said it would be sent to her.

That was a month ago probably.

Yesterday she receives a letter from DVLA, NOT containing a refund, but another £103 fine for no car tax timed and dated 15 minutes AFTER she was clamped

wtf are they playing at??

[Road_Hog]

If you have no valid car tax, then the MOT and Tax are both void, so you may also get hit for this.

Eh?

Since when did car tax have any effect on your MOT. It is a certificate to indicate your vehicle has met the yearly test for minimum roadworthy condition. Your tax disc shows that you have paid your road tax and are entitled to drive on the highways.

Two totally different things.

[hewhoisnotintheknow]

i know its annoying but you had no car tax, pay the fine

[zappahey]

If you have no valid car tax, then the MOT and Tax are both void, so you may also get hit for this.

Do you just make this stuff up? In another thread you said that no MOT voids the tax and insurance. The reality is that, while MOT and insurance are required to buy a tax disc, each of these items stand alone the expry of one has no impact on the validity of the other two.

[DiggerDan]

think you are in trouble, i had my car clamped, i had sorn the car off road, then had moved it to the garage to work on it, i left it outside for 30 mins max in a back street while i went round the front to unlock and open the garage to put the car in, i came out to find it clamped and no one about. i rang to make payment, but was told they (NCP)dont take solo, but do take cash if i drove 170 miles to there office, i rang back the following day with a diff card(thanks to a good friend) but that too was not accepted, finally on the sat morning i rang with a visa card, at 9 am but was told to late the car had been taken and was in a pound 170 miles away in another county, it cost me £700 to get the car back as it had no mot and could not be towed on a motorway and had to be put on a flatback truck to come back, i got £125 back off DVLA for the inconvenience, but i then had to have the front wing and door replaced thanks to the NCP lads smashing them with their lifting truck. Just be warned that its now 1 week off 6 months and i just had a letter off DVLA wanting £112 as a fine. Who thinks that is right? And does anyone know if they can leave it that long? Good luck with your fight, and remember there could be another fine to fight over

[raskazz]

Not matter what was or wasn't received, you would have seen your tax disc every day getting in/out of your car. Surely that would have been a sufficient reminder?

[raskazz]

you was driving without tax - which also invalidates your insurance so technically you was an uninsured driver too as all insurance policies say your car must be M.O.T'd and Taxed.

This is totally incorrect BTW.

[big gay kirk]

My SORNed car was taken off my driveway by some over zealous types... I reported it stolen, was told that it had actually been towed away.... I rang DVLA, told them the situation, gave them the ref. number off the SORN acknowledgement they sent me, (their letter to me was dated three days before the tax ran out....) and bingo... car returned, luckily undamaged.... and then the letter arrived about the fine.. it said to ignore it if etc.. so I ignored it.. only to get a court summons.. rang DVLA.. got it sorted... and I was obeying all the rules!

[Crabman]

My SORNed car was taken off my driveway by some over zealous types... I reported it stolen, was told that it had actually been towed away.... I rang DVLA, told them the situation, gave them the ref. number off the SORN acknowledgement they sent me, (their letter to me was dated three days before the tax ran out....) and bingo... car returned, luckily undamaged.... and then the letter arrived about the fine.. it said to ignore it if etc.. so I ignored it.. only to get a court summons.. rang DVLA.. got it sorted... and I was obeying all the rules!
Are they allowed to enter private land like that? :confused:

[roddydogs]

Of course not!

[big gay kirk]

Are they allowed to enter private land like that? :confused:

apprently not... but they still did....

[Crabman]

apprently not... but they still did....
If they'd done that to me I'd be creating as much trouble for them as possible... I wondered whether they had a warrant or something. Obviously they're on par with those nice courteous TV Licence people.

[big gay kirk]

about two weeks.... and what seemed like a thousand phone calls!

[big gay kirk]

on the subject of clamping.. apparently (but I'm not recommending you try this!!) if you fiirmly and clearly fix a notice above your wheels that says something along the lines of "This vehicle is equipped with boltcroppers. If you clamp this vehicle the owner will remove the clamp with these boltcroppers, and will not be held liable for any fine or for any damage sustained to the clamp" then by clamping your car, the clampers can be held to have agreed to the contract.. just as you apparently agree to their contract to clamp you if you park in theri patch.. and if they clamp you, and you cut the clamp off, they haven't a leg tto stand on.. but I'm not actually sure if this si legal.. except possibly in Scotland!!

[meester]

on the subject of clamping.. apparently (but I'm not recommending you try this!!) if you fiirmly and clearly fix a notice above your wheels that says something along the lines of "This vehicle is equipped with boltcroppers. If you clamp this vehicle the owner will remove the clamp with these boltcroppers, and will not be held liable for any fine or for any damage sustained to the clamp" then by clamping your car, the clampers can be held to have agreed to the contract.. just as you apparently agree to their contract to clamp you if you park in theri patch.. and if they clamp you, and you cut the clamp off, they haven't a leg tto stand on.. but I'm not actually sure if this si legal.. except possibly in Scotland!!

they'll tow you instead

[across]

if you cant read the expiry date on your tax disc then your eyes are bad and you shouldnt be on the road at all,if we got rid of all the untaxed vehicles on the roads then maybe they would be less congested hence no need to bring in congestion charges yipee! get em clamped and towed away they are in the way of us that pay!:rolleyes:

[rachnbri]

i rely on that letter from the DVLA to let me know my tax is due (as I;m sure do most people in this country).


Every morning when I gt in my car I see the date on the tax disk displayed on my windscreen - that's how I know when it's due!

[across]

Originally Posted by redpetunia http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=12235867#post12235867)
i rely on that letter from the DVLA to let me know my tax is due (as I;m sure do most people in this country).
you are so irresponsible! I'm sure your havin a laugh! if it were a hand out you wouldnt wait for a letter i bet you'd expect whats due on time regardless!!you must be very hardfaced to drive an untaxed vehicle anyway i would be so embarrased as i am a very proud person obviously youre not!:p

[Thomas Crown]

Do you just make this stuff up? In another thread you said that no MOT voids the tax and insurance. The reality is that, while MOT and insurance are required to buy a tax disc, each of these items stand alone the expry of one has no impact on the validity of the other two.

Driving a car over 3 years old without a valid MOT will result in the insurance being void. The insurers will deem the car to be unroadworthy.

[Keith]

Driving a car over 3 years old without a valid MOT will result in the insurance being void. The insurers will deem the car to be unroadworthy.

No they won't, the MOT only says at XX:XX on X day of X month the car passed a series of basic tests, 5 minutes later after leaving the test center the car can be unroadworthy.

[raskazz]

Driving a car over 3 years old without a valid MOT will result in the insurance being void.

No it will not, as has been explained numerous times in recent threads.

The insurers will deem the car to be unroadworthy.

Not solely on the basis of an expired MOT they won't.